Author Topic: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade  (Read 10712 times)

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Offline Slybones

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320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« on: August 12, 2011, 04:54:10 pm »
I have had the Tokico 6 pot calipers on the stock rotors for quite a long time. And given how well they worked I have not been in a huge hurry to blow money on 320mm rotors. Back when zrxmopar was building the brackets, he and I worked out a trade of parts, where I scored the brackets for the 320mm rotors. Had these sitting out in the garage for quite some time. I figured someday when the stock rotors wore out I would upgrade at that time.

I have been keeping an eye out for 320mm rotors and even started that Chinese knock-off thread a while back. One of the things I observed was used factory rotors going for $100 range each on ebay. Thats still $200 for factory rotors that are used, some even say warped in them. For a hundred bucks? The knock-offs look better. And just not ready to pay $350-$500 for killer 320mm wave rotors unless the stock ones are toast and MUST be replaced.

Then one day not too long ago while searching for ZZR1200 Rotors, I found a thread on the ZG Fanatics forum that listed a ZZR site that was selling brand new ZZR1200 parts. The claim was they purchased 5 ZZR1200 crate bikes for the motors, and were selling the remaining parts on ebay. -- They listed a pair of brand new ZZR1200 320mm factory rotors for $200 shipped. This is now competing with the knock-offs in terms of price. No they are not wave design, but at least a known product as they are factory momma K rotors.

I think these 6-pots were ideal for 310mm rotors. They are a little big for the 300mm rotors. With the pad aligned all the way at the front of the surface area, they are a bit larger than the rotor and have a funky wear pattern to be aware of. With these 320mm rotors and the extra surface area, the pads are located at the outer edge of the rotor with the outer edge of the pad. There is extra surface area left over the pads are not using. They could be even bigger yet.

All in all the Rotors are a bolt up swap. You need brackets to move your existing calipers out further to accommodate the larger rotor.

Some info from the calipers:

The 320mm rotors are thicker as well as larger diameter. New thickness on stock listed as 4.5mm, and 5.1mm for the ZZR. Mine measured right at 5.1mm. Min thickness for stock is 4.0mm, and 4.5mm ZZR.

There one was a post (debate) on the forum ages ago where some said the 320mm rotors had no more pad surface area, just the surface area is moved out farther from the center. I supposed overall some of this depends on the calipers and pads, but purely from a rotor point of view, the extra 20mm adds quite a bit of surface area. 1.20 inches for stock and 1.35 inches for ZZR.

The drill pattern is different. The stock drill pattern was somewhat directional, and the rotors have an arrow on them pointing the direction they are supposed to rotate. ( notice mine are backwards. Rode then that way for 78K mi ). The ZZR ones have no directional arrow that I could find.

Did a small test ride last night and to work this morning. They have a whole 25mi on them. So it is hard to compare at this time. Have to give a report later.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 04:55:26 pm »
The stock rotors



The ZZR1200 Rotors
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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 04:57:02 pm »
Here are the rotors themselves



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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 04:59:34 pm »
With the calipers I held them up to the stock rotors and measured the distance from the outer edge of the rotor to the inside edge of the pad surface are, then set that on the ZZR rotor for comparison.

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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 05:01:18 pm »
Brackets. ohhhhh.......

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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 05:15:09 pm »
stock rotors new 4.5mm or .177". Min thickness is 4.0mm or .157". Mine measured at .168". So right in about 50% wear. No warping, etc. I have a fellow COG member interested in them. I'll give him a smokin price on these. So the best part for me is the upgrade will cost even less.
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Offline wild man

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 05:34:34 pm »
So the 320's yield more bracking surface, do the pads develop a lip as is the case for those of use using the OEM rotors with Nissin/Tokico calipers?  Where did you get the brackets for the 320's?? 
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Offline Greg

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 05:37:30 pm »
Could you trace the new & old brackets to a piece of paper so i can make a set?  i'd owe ya a cold beverage (or two). 

let me know.  Thanks.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 06:11:53 pm »
So the 320's yield more bracking surface, do the pads develop a lip as is the case for those of use using the OEM rotors with Nissin/Tokico calipers?  Where did you get the brackets for the 320's??

Well I am not 100% positive that the pads will not develop a lip on them, like they do with the stock rotors, since I only have 25 miles on them. But from the alignment of the pads on these rotors I dont not believe it weill be a problem.

I got the brackets from zrxmopar, who is no longer making them.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 06:20:03 pm »
Could you trace the new & old brackets to a piece of paper so i can make a set?  i'd owe ya a cold beverage (or two). 

let me know.  Thanks.

One minor problem with this approach.

The initial dozen or so people who initially ordered these had to send the 6 pot calipers to zrxmopar for machining. I assume my brackets would only work with 6 pot calipers that are also properly machined to match.

Later when the 4 pot caliper brackets were made, the 4 pot brackets did not required any caliper machining.  After that zrxmopar went back and redesigned the 6 pot brackets so they did not require any machining either. This is for '94 up C10. For the 86-93 he only made 4 pot brackets ( that I recall ) and these did not require machining either. A set of these would be the ideal brackets to try and copy.

But for those of us who were the first early adpoters of this great mod, we sent our calipers off for machining as well as brackets. This would not be ideal, as you will have to figure out the caliper machine work too.
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2011, 09:59:19 pm »
Could you trace the new & old brackets to a piece of paper so i can make a set?  i'd owe ya a cold beverage (or two). 

let me know.  Thanks.

Greg,

Did you get my PM from a few days ago?
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Offline Greg

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2011, 10:34:51 pm »
Ah, yes i did.  just looked.  Thank you!  I'm in no hurry, so it's good.
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2011, 06:33:16 pm »
I've been running these rotors from www.zzr1200parts.com in Canada for about three or four years now.  I've also bought a few other pieces from them.  Their stuff is "new take-offs" as they were dismantling zzr1200s to get the engines and electrics only.  IIRC they still have lots of plastic left too if anyone needs zzr1200 stuff.  I am running them on my ZZR1200 front rim and ZX14 forks on the turbo bike and squeezing them with the 14's radial calipers. Major stoppage!

« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 06:38:53 pm by Rev Ryder »
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2011, 06:52:22 pm »
I am also running 320 mm rotors, which are the stock size for the ZX9 front end I have.



I am running 4 pot Tokico calipers from a GSXR 600, which are the same as for the ZZR1200.  This is about as good as it gets for brakes on the Connie, short of the ZX14 radial calipers that the Rev is running.  The GSXR calipers have a larger piston area than even the 6 pots.  If anyone wants to make their own caliper adapters, I recommend using the 320 mm rotors, because the pad fits, as Slybones stated, and you don't have to worry about weird pad wear.  If I were to make my own brackets, and had the later model front end, I would do what Centex did

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,28288.0.html

Very neat, and doesn't require a machine shop.   :great:

BTW, I got my rotors used, and haven't had any problems with them.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2011, 05:09:01 pm »
Few notes so far....

Lever is hard as a rock. Had to change the knob from 1 to 2 and might go to 3.  -- I recall this long time ago when I first installed the 6 pot calibers and had new pads, etc. Somewhere along the lines I ended up turning the know back to setting 1.  I have used the bungee cord stuff, and bleed them too.  Not sure if it was just pad wear, or what, but with it all new and fresh fuild, etc its now back to that rock hard lever.

Probably the biggest difference now is the amount of effort for light braking at a normal stop. You barely squeeze the lever. This will take some getting use to. Seemed like with the 6 pots on the stock rotors, it had much better braking than stock. Better brake feel and easy to modulate the brakes, but I dont recall them being overly touchy. -- These are borderline touchy. 

When I practiced my panic stop yesterday in the park 'n ride. These things stop.

Overall between the calipers and the rotors the calipers is where its at.  I think going from stock rotors / calipers to stock rotors and 4/6 pot calipers is a bigger improvement in braking, than the improvement adding 320mm rotors in terms of braking power. There might be an improvement in braking power going to the 320mm but is less dramatic. There is an improvement in control and effort. Also the 320mm rotors fit better with the pads, thicker which might help with warping, etc. Overall its worth the upgrade.
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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2011, 05:17:26 pm »
Got a little bit of a clicking noise. Dont really notice under speed. But at parking lot speeds, if I lightly move the front brake lever on and off very lightly, I can hear what sounds like the pads clicking against the rotors.  Might have to do with that rock hard lever and the little effort is takes to engage this things. But I have not heard this before. This is a new sound to figure out.


Also these drag a little. when I installed the tire last week and had no calipers or pads on yet, the tire rotated quite easily and freely. Yesterday while doing the CC investigation I got messing with the speedo cable. Got the wife to sit on the bike and lean back so the front tire was off the ground. Thought I would just spin the tire and she would see the speedo move. Its has not really hard, but is just didnt spin nice and free like. These drag some. You can hear it pushing the bike in and out of the garage. Doesnt seem bad, but different compared to the old pads that I just removed.
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2011, 06:33:50 pm »
Slybones,

Just a couple thoughts on your clicking/ dragging.  The first thing that comes to mind when you mention clicking in the caliper is pad movement.  Is it possible that the retaining pins for the calipers pads are a little worn (OK, a lot worn), and the clicking is due to the slop in the pins?  Also, check to see that the pins are fully engaged, and not loose.  It won't take much for you to hear/ feel a click.  Edit:  Just looked at the pad design for the 6 pot calipers, and it looks like the pad floats on the pin in the rotor rotation direction (as do most caliper pads, now that I think about it  :(), so the pin would not be the culprit.  I would still try to find out if the pad is moving.

Did you inspect and/ or clean the caliper pistons?  If not, your dragging may be due to a stuck/binding piston.  I've read of this being an issue with the 6 pots (and some of the 4 pots), especially in wet conditions, due to corrosion.  It would only take one of them sticking to cause dragging.

HTH,
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 07:16:11 pm by GFinCA »
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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2011, 07:26:36 pm »
Will give both these ideas a look. I did inspect and clean as best I could, but no I didnt rebuild them.

Searching for rebuild kits for Tokico 6 pot calipers I have only seen a few kits available from the UK.  ??

I have also found a few threads on forums about rebuiding these. For reference only, mine looked nothing like these. Mine are nice and clean in comparison. Not that it could not be sticking, but wow.

http://www.tlzone.net/forums/performance-enhancement/112276-how-overhaul-tokico-six-pot-callipers.html
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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2011, 08:37:52 pm »
Slybones,

I don't think you would necessarily have to rebuild them (unless they looked like the ones in your link... pretty nasty  :o), just make sure they are free of corrosion and/ or gunk, which it sounds like you did.  The only other thing I can think of is maybe one of the pistons did not get pushed back all the way when you were fitting the pads, and whatever kept it from moving all the way in is keeping the piston in a position to make the brake drag slightly.  Maybe test for drag with each caliper separately to determine if one is worse than the other.  Just thinking out loud, HTH.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2011, 12:08:41 am »
Well freeway traffic was light on the way home and I rode the last 2 mi off the freeway just using the rear brake. Touching the front brake rotors when I got home its the right side that is dragging. It was warm. Left side was cold. Probably gonna drive the truck tomorrow and them come home early so I can get into it. And have some time. This evening is full up.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2011, 01:49:02 am »
I have tokiko 4 pots and 320's from a zx11 with shawns adapters. Had them for about 3-4 years. wow, real brakes - I'm reminded every time I ride a stocker... Steve
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Offline wild man

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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2011, 11:02:04 am »
Steve

Any thought on making some of those 320mm adaptors  ^-^
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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2011, 11:13:34 am »
  Not that i haven''t considered it (GREAT farkle; another is the lowering rocker) , but I'll tell you why I have chosen not to make the adapters. The fact is that I didn't develop them, and to copy them for profit is against my personal ethics. I have developed a number of products both for the concours and in other venues, and I really don't appreciate someone copying my work and then making money on it, so I don't do it. I know the adapters are a wanted item, and it's fine if someone else wants to jump on it, but for me, well, I have to look at myself in the mirror each morning. Copying someone else, or profitting from thier R&D efforts just wouldn't sit well with me. I don't need money bad enough to compromise my ethics on that.  ;) Steve
 
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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2011, 12:11:24 pm »
I can appreciate that

However I was thinking there really is a lack of interest on Shawns part to pursue this any further, at least thats what I could recall.  A pair of plates is really not that big of a concept and I'm sure he's a great guy, maybe he could be pursued for
permission or a blessing of sorts?

Whatever you decide is ok by me :beerchug: 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 01:31:38 pm by wild man »
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Re: 320mm ZZR1200 Brake Rotor Upgrade
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2011, 01:36:30 am »
Well removed the cover off the back and checked the pads. The outside pad was floating nicely. The inside pad appeared pretty tight. I removed the pads with the caliper in place. My thought was to squeeze the lever a few times so the pistons would extend out way more that they were. AS for the most part they were nearly pressed in all the way. 5 of the 6 moved out and one was stuck. I then removed the caliper and split in two. Took 3 of the pistons on the one side out and cleaned them up and got everything looking pretty good. Then other side I could only get 2 of the 3 out. The one was pressed in there and it wasnt cooperating. So squirted brake clean all over it and toothbrushed it as best I could. Put it back together and hope for best. -- I am hoping that when it all bleed and the remaining pistons have all moved into position that last one will have no choice but to move and what cleaning I did will be enough.

Test ride seems to show its NOT sticking. Woo hoo. Although I did not go very far. My goal will be to ride to work tomorrow, use as normal. Ride to the freeway in the evening use the front and then so the same as yesterdays test. Not use the front for the last bit of freeway and home. Check the rotor temps to make sure they are both cool. Get the wife to sit back up on the pass section with the front up and check tire spin.

Thanks
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