Author Topic: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers  (Read 34825 times)

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Offline Centex

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2012, 02:25:33 am »
For an easier inital check of the pad vs rotor fit, pull a pad from the GSXR caliper and hold it against the rotor with your hand - I believe you may find that the pad is wider than the braking band on the rotor no matter how you align it with your hand (I know that is the case with the pads for a GSXR 750 4-pot caliper on the standard late C10 rotor).

The larger diameter rotors have a wider braking surface to accomdate the wider pads.
Alan in Central Texas
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Offline wingboy

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2012, 09:58:36 pm »
Well I mounted and aligned the calipers using standard M8 washers and everything works fine. I just have problems with my brake hoses as caliper is sitting lower and I can't use my Galfers nor the ones that came with calipers from GXR as they are too long -2 line design so I guess I have to call Murph and ask for custom ones. I still have to rebuild calipers and put new brake pads but even now breaking seems to be more powerful. I also think I will actually replace washers with custom made spacers. Overall not cheap upgrade but worth the money.

Offline BratmanXj

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2012, 11:31:05 pm »
Well I mounted and aligned the calipers using standard M8 washers and everything works fine. I just have problems with my brake hoses as caliper is sitting lower and I can't use my Galfers nor the ones that came with calipers from GXR as they are too long -2 line design so I guess I have to call Murph and ask for custom ones. I still have to rebuild calipers and put new brake pads but even now breaking seems to be more powerful. I also think I will actually replace washers with custom made spacers. Overall not cheap upgrade but worth the money.

 :TPIWWP:

Please...Please....Please...I've got a line on some calipers for a pretty good price and have been looking at making my own brackets...but if this is a bolt on solution with some minor shimming so be it.

Offline GF-in-CA

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Offline wingboy

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2012, 11:57:43 pm »
Bratman, I will be tuning my brakes with those spacers and new brake hoses. When I will ask my friend to get me those spacers I can ask him to make 4 extra for you if you decide to go my way. I got adapters to Suzuki DL 650 you got link below
http://www.svracingparts.com/products/#ecwid:category=472407&mode=product&product=10245069
and got pair of barke calipers from Suzuki GSXR 600 from 2002 on ebay

Offline Centex

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2012, 01:41:48 am »
Wingboy - the pads for the calipers you are using (I have the same calipers and pads) sweep a path that is wider (measured radially from the edge closest to the axle out to the edge closest to the rim) than the machined braking surface on a stock 94+ Connie rotor.

In other words, the pad will either lap over the outside edge of the rotor, or ride inside the machined braking surface of the rotor, or both, depending on how far the caliper is mounted radially from the axle.  The braking material on the pad cannot fit within the width of the intended rotor braking surface, regardless of the alignment of the caliper.   :-[

With the adaptors you are using, where does the excess pad 'fall'?  Outside the rotor or inside the intended braking surface toward the center of the brake rotor, or does it overlap on both edges?
Alan in Central Texas
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Offline wingboy

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2012, 03:05:38 am »
Centex, the "excess of the pad is outside the rotor. The adapter was designed for 310 mm rotor, Connie has 300 mm.

Offline BratmanXj

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2012, 10:55:56 am »
Centex, the "excess of the pad is outside the rotor. The adapter was designed for 310 mm rotor, Connie has 300 mm.

And you can pick up a set of second hand ZX 320mm rotors on ebay for around $50 so there are simple and inexpensive solutions out there.

Offline Centex

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2012, 11:18:09 am »
I agree that the pads work great on 320 mm rotors.

However, I don't think the 310mm adaptors will let the caliper fit over the larger rotor.

Some folks report trimming the pad material back to fit the stock rotors using a grinder, but that was with an adaptor made for the Connie - the amount of trim required was very small (on the order of 2mm).

Devilish details.
Alan in Central Texas
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Offline WillyP

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2012, 11:26:58 am »
I believe it would only be an issue if the pads were so worn that the overhanging material came together and prevented the pads from clamping the rotor. The pads would have to have half the thickness of the rotor worn off each one for that to happen. Then you could probably just drag a file across the ridge. Or just replace the pad, at that point.
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Offline wingboy

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2012, 11:48:35 am »
I am pretty sure the the adapter won't work on 320 mm rotor. I have to ride and use the brakes for a while to see how much excess on pad stay but using file to remove excess seems to be a good solution.
Wish I can get somewhere 310 mm rotors that will fit Connie.

Offline Centex

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2012, 11:53:21 am »
WillyP, You may well be right.

We still haven't seen pics showing the amount of overlap with this particular adaptor.  Half of the diameter difference plus the excess pad width would be about 1/4 inch.  We don't know since we don't have that detail from Wingboy.  If that much, I'd start to wonder about pad/piston binding from the offset load under braking (but that's just me and I'll admit being conservative to the extreme when talking brake mods).

I just want folks to be aware that the adaptor that Wingboy is using has these alignment issues so they can make fully informed decisions about the second most critical component on their bike, before they spend their money.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 11:58:28 am by Centex »
Alan in Central Texas
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Offline wingboy

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2012, 08:29:15 pm »
After I put some miles I give you more details and send some pictures now it's too soon to tell anuthing and I agree with you Centex that you must know all the details before you make decision about modifying your brakes   

Offline Slybones

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2012, 08:30:39 pm »
I believe it would only be an issue if the pads were so worn that the overhanging material came together and prevented the pads from clamping the rotor. The pads would have to have half the thickness of the rotor worn off each one for that to happen. Then you could probably just drag a file across the ridge. Or just replace the pad, at that point.

This is correct. I used to run my 6 pot calipers on the stock rotors. The extra pad area was to the outside. As Willy points out I remove my pads every do often and took the dremel to the ridge and ground it off. -- Given the rotor thickness and pad thickness you would have to be down around 25% - 30% pad wear left to get to the point  the pads prevent clamping of the rotor. I did mine once at about 40% pad wear and later at about 80% pad wear and left them until changed. I performed the pad maintenance twice.

I posted a pic of the pad wear in another thread recently.

Overall while it IS A MUST that users know this and perform pad maintenance when using aftermarket rotors on stock calipers, I would not let this stop me. Having done both 6 pots on stock rotors and 6 pots on 320mm rotors, the majority of the improvement comes from the calipers. And while using them on the 320mm is better braking and less side effects, I personally would do aftermarket calipes on stock rotors again, IN A HEARTBEAT, if thats all I could do. OR even do that first as a first step, and then later make brackets again when I could upgrade to 320mm rotors. Maybe even wait for the stock rotors to wear out first, and then upgrade when I had to do it anyway. Yes that means making 2 sets of brackets. 

Having said that, I completely agree with mentioning the fitmet issue everytime we see these threads, such that people go into this mod knowing what is required, and what the side effects are.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2012, 08:35:24 pm »
here is a pic of me holding the pads to the rotors, trying to show the amount of gap. You can see how much space is still available before the pads hit interfere with clamping. These are EBC HH pads for 6 pot calipers over the stock rotors at aprox 40% pad wear.

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Offline Slybones

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2012, 08:38:39 pm »
Here is how "My" pads wear down. You can see the ridge at the top. I just used a dremel and ground it down flush and reinstalled. Was performed twice over the life of the pads. If you pushed it further based on the above pic, you might only need to do this once over the life of the pads.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 01:57:38 am by Slybones »
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Offline 2linby

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2012, 01:35:11 am »
Fred,

Thanks for posting the pictures. With my 4 pot Tokicos the overlap is even greater and yes, I've "trimmed" the excess twice already using a bench grinder.
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Offline BratmanXj

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2012, 01:42:14 am »
And while using them on the 320mm is better braking and less side effects

Less - so going to the 320mm rotors does not completely alleviate the pad overhang?

Offline Slybones

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2012, 01:52:56 am »
yeah that side effect is gone. There could be other side effects though. Or it could a poor choice of words.
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2012, 01:53:22 am »
And while using them on the 320mm is better braking and less side effects

Less - so going to the 320mm rotors does not completely alleviate the pad overhang?

The pads for any of the 4 pot Tokicos and Nissins will fit perfectly on a 320 mm rotor.  The newer 4 pot Tokicos as used on the 2000-2003 Suzukis were also used on the Kawasaki ZZR1200, which uses 320 mm rotors.  The older 4 pot Tokicos were used on ZX7's, ZX9's, and ZX11's with 320 mm rotors.  I'm not sure what Slybones meant by less side effects, but it doesn't have anything to do with how the pads fit the rotors.

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Offline Slybones

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2012, 02:02:28 am »
Fred,

Thanks for posting the pictures. With my 4 pot Tokicos the overlap is even greater and yes, I've "trimmed" the excess twice already using a bench grinder.


Yeah I think them old 6 pots were designed around 310mm rotors.  And like GF mentions there are ones designed around the 320 and I am sure with them the over hang is pretty good.

When I went to the 320mm rotors I measured the pad surface of the stock 300mm rotors with the calipers and then placed the calipers on the 320mm rotors and took a pic. Here is the amount of additional area

« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 02:04:35 am by Slybones »
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2012, 02:09:50 am »
Just to be clear, the 6 pot calipers as used on the ZRX with 310 mm rotors were used on the ZX7 and ZX9 with 320 mm rotors, so they will work fine with either the 4 pots or 6 pots.  The 4 pots will work perfectly with the 310 mm rotors, as well, in fact I know that some of the people using Shaun's 4 pot adapters were able to use 310 mm rotors with his adapters to get the extra friction area needed for the pads.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2012, 02:26:46 am »
I was not meaning to say that my 6 pots were designed for 310 and were not able to be used on 320. Heck, I am doing it. Just the amount of friction area of the pads / calipers was designed around 310mm rotors ( or some rotor with slightly larger surface area ). When I used them on the 300mm rotors I had a slight amount of over hang with the pads being aligned pretty well on the inside. On my 320mm rotors the pads are oriented to the outside, and I have some unused rotor friction area to the inside that is not being fully utilized.  -- So I can see these working perfectly on 310mm or 320mm rotors with no over hang or funky pad wear. Just not all of the surface area of the 320mm will be utilized.

With regard to 4 or 6 pot calipers that were designed to utilize the full surface area of a 320mm rotor, being used on a 300mm rotor, I would think the over hang would be even greater than what my pads show above. I think this is 2Linby was trying to say, and while I have not personally seen his pad wear, I can visualize it being so. Not True?

With regards to 4 pots designed to make use of the full area of 320mm rotors, you are saying they can be used on 310mm rotors and have no overhang AND be properly aligned on the inside?  IE work perfectly, no funky pad wear.

Or what? I guess I must be missing something. 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 02:37:43 am by Slybones »
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Offline Centex

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2012, 02:58:19 am »
Thanks, Slybones, for stepping in with your great photo documentation.

As always, pics worth thousands of words and your website is a gold mine of information for anyone undertaking C10 mods.

 :beerchug:
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Offline 2linby

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Re: Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2012, 03:03:11 am »
Yes I have a very thin "crescent" undercut as a result of the pads not being in total contact with the rotors. In fact I did not realize this condition until I basically had no front brakes due to the pads actually coming together making direct contact with each other.

I am rebuilding my tokico calipers with new seals and I might powder coat the bodies but I will take a picture of what I am describing.   I have stock rotors.
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