Author Topic: Electronic Fuel Cut Off  (Read 9444 times)

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Offline rickm_tx

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Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« on: August 16, 2015, 01:16:29 am »

My friend's Valkaryie shares the same hydrolock nightmares the C10 does and his approach (not yet installed) was to go with an electronic fuel cut off valve (pictured below).  He was nice enough to order one for me as well, so I am  in the process of installing it.

So far, I find the best location for it is under the seat in a slight cavity toward the rear.  This is the space in which the feeder line from the petcock is routed to the carbs, making installation easy with the existing fuel line:

1.Cut existing fuel line in half (shorten if needed)
2. Install cut fuel line ends onto the cut off valve
3. Mount the unit to the frame
4. Wire the unit to the harness

What I am not sure about is the best method for wiring to the harness.  Any suggestions?



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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2015, 03:14:09 am »
I would wire it into the ignition on position of the key switch. That way no fuel when key is turned off.
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Offline kz

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2015, 09:26:27 am »
Great Idea!
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Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2015, 12:02:32 pm »
Others have tried this with mixed results. Adequate Fuel flow is the issue. This one maybe better. When you energize it can you see directly through it?

I would get a double ended barbed connector to connect the fuel lines back together bypassing it in case of failure and carry it with you just in case it fails on the road somewhere far from home.
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Offline rickm_tx

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2015, 01:50:44 pm »
Others have tried this with mixed results. Adequate Fuel flow is the issue. This one maybe better. When you energize it can you see directly through it?

I would get a double ended barbed connector to connect the fuel lines back together bypassing it in case of failure and carry it with you just in case it fails on the road somewhere far from home.

Good idea.  I will do that.

I haven't tested it yet so I don't know if it is flo-thru.  I will let you know though.

If this works, it is a $40 insurance policy against hydrolocks, and that is cheap.

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2015, 05:46:02 pm »
save your money.... orafice size is way to small for gravity feed of the amount of fuel needed to supply the carbs....

specs

http://www.afcvalves.com/mod111.html

this is based on knowing even the slightest kink in a 1/4" fuel line causes issues currently.

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Offline Cogwheel

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2015, 05:55:28 pm »
Hi,

I actually have one of these installed that I purchase from Dam Marc RV supply on my 2002 C10 for the past 18 months.  I have it sitting directly on top of the carbs with a 90' barb to the inlet tube.  I then run the petcock outlet to a 90' inline fuel filter then directly into the valve.  I can supply pics if anyone is interested.

I can redline the bike at anytime with no issue of fuel starvation.

Cogwheel...


Offline who me?

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2015, 05:58:13 pm »
Hi,

I actually have one of these installed that I purchase from Dam Marc RV supply on my 2002 C10 for the past 18 months.  I have it sitting directly on top of the carbs with a 90' barb to the inlet tube.  I then run the petcock outlet to a 90' inline fuel filter then directly into the valve.  I can supply pics if anyone is interested.

I can redline the bike at anytime with no issue of fuel starvation.

Cogwheel...


Im interested
I have no idea about anything.
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Offline Cogwheel

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2015, 06:01:17 pm »
Sure,

If I get a chance tonight I'll rip the tank off and snap a few of the install and the way I wired.

Cogwheel...


Offline SalNap

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2015, 09:52:31 pm »
 :popcorn:

Offline Cogwheel

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2015, 11:17:57 pm »
Hi all,

here is the attached picture with the fuel valve with the 90' barb to the carb inlet. 2nd picture shows valve sitting on top of carb 2.  more to come.

Offline Cogwheel

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2015, 11:23:06 pm »
these pictures show the 90' filter that connects to petcock and the complete set up.

Offline Cogwheel

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2015, 11:34:02 pm »
I have it wired through a 5 pin relay where the relay get its power from the hot wire of either coil.  the power for the fuel valve comes from the ACC port by the rear fender.

Offline SalNap

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2015, 12:03:43 am »
Others have tried this with mixed results. Adequate Fuel flow is the issue. This one maybe better. When you energize it can you see directly through it?

I would get a double ended barbed connector to connect the fuel lines back together bypassing it in case of failure and carry it with you just in case it fails on the road somewhere far from home.

Good idea.  I will do that.

I haven't tested it yet so I don't know if it is flo-thru.  I will let you know though.

If this works, it is a $40 insurance policy against hydrolocks, and that is cheap.

that's what I was looking for. Cheap insurance.

Nice find Rick!

Nice work COGWHEEL!!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 12:15:28 am by SalNap »

Offline who me?

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2015, 12:20:30 am »
 :great:
I have no idea about anything.
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Offline jathkajoe

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2015, 03:07:32 am »
When I bought the '82 Suz GS1100G I had before the current C10 the Suz came with a solenoid valve in the fuel line installed by the PO.  Key on, solenoid on, crank engine, vacuum petcock opened, fuel flowed.  There was an inline filter in there too just before the solenoid.  If I recall correctly the PO said the solenoid valve was off a Ford pickup for switching fuel tanks.  The system never malfunctioned while I had it.  That Suz went like stink too, never gave any indication of fuel starvation.

JathkaJoe

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2015, 06:05:16 am »
I had that same unit and tried it. It was not good. Not enough fuel flow, does not prevent hydro lock.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2015, 10:24:20 am »
Again, what's old is new... this was a hot topic 10 years ago. IIRC Bob Smith did a flow rate comparison article in the concourier about these valves. I think the resident expert on this is JD Mullins, he spent his life working with valves and flow rates. Years ago JD had Murph interested in trying to sell the valves, Murph even sent me one for testing which did fuel starve my bike but when used on a 2003 that was rarely revved it lived successfully for about 8 years. I think the valve JD sourced was of particularly high flow too...
   I think that a gravity supply is where the system breaks down. We've even played with mounting  voyager 12 fuel pumps, because when they're off, they're off, and operate at about 1# pressure as the needle valves can be easily overwhelmed. Oh, and guess what Kaw includes on the voyager just in case? Overflow tubes!  ;)  Steve
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Offline millerized

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2015, 10:39:48 am »
I can redline the bike at anytime with no issue of fuel starvation.
Cogwheel...

For arguments sake:
Figuring we get, on average, 40mpg. RPM's vary, but that's approximately 3.2oz per minute at 60pmh.
Guestimate that there's 2oz in each fuel bowl, we'll put it at 6.4oz total to make it easy to work with the number above.
There's about 2 minutes of fuel in the bowls at a reasonable 40-50mph RPM range.

1/4" line, unencumbered by any kinks, clogged screens/filters, changes in direction will flow .279 gal per minute at a 12"/2" drop+=35.7oz per minute. Drop the drop to 1" and you're down to 15.5ish oz per minute.

Now, add in any restrictions, flow interruptions (bends, kinks, smaller orifices), things get iffy. 

Using those same calcs, your 1/8th orifice will flow 3.968oz per minute without any interruptions.  Why 1/8"...I have 1/4" fuel line on mine? (check the specs on your valve) Gravity and flow don't like restrictions...like that valve, like that 1/4" "T", or 90, or even the interior dimensions of the check valve...you're probably down to 1/8 (that valve has a 1/8" ID), at most 3/16". And while that may work on a pressurized fuel system, this ain't one.

Gravity is your friend only as long as it can do it's job without interruption. Any interruptions just means it needs to start falling again, and velocity is tied to oz per minute.  While that valve 'might' work at normal cruise speeds, long bouts with Rev'itus, any other restrictions in the pipe, carb work, even less than a full tank's worth of head pressure may reduce your ability to run full out for an extended period of time. Not many of you are going to suck your carbs dry running full out for 2min, but they probably ain't gonna refill fast enough to do it again.



All this before coffee. Now, if you'll excuse me...I need to caffeinate before this type of thinking continues and someone pays me to think this way.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2015, 10:57:29 am »
ahh, Jimmy Miller, just like the good old daze :great: Steve
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Offline Cogwheel

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2015, 01:13:50 pm »
Well, all I can say is that it works perfectly on my cycle for the past 18 months with many hard extended launches and has never failed to keep on accelerating.  I must add that I also have SISF's exhaust sprocket and 2 minute mod installed.

Just sayin..

Cogwheel...
 

Offline Pbfoot

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2015, 02:52:34 pm »
" Not many of you are going to suck your carbs dry running full out for 2min, but they probably ain't gonna refill fast enough to do it again."

The way I ride, this will not work. When I see flashing lights, I need to know I am not going to run out of fuel. :nananana:
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Offline ACISROC

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2015, 03:05:36 pm »


 "The way I ride, this will not work. When I see flashing lights, I need to know I am not going to run out of fuel. :nananana:"

 I like the way you think pbfoot.
pbfoot is cool  :great: :great: :great:
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Offline rickm_tx

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2015, 03:06:15 pm »
Hi,

I actually have one of these installed that I purchase from Dam Marc RV supply on my 2002 C10 for the past 18 months.  I have it sitting directly on top of the carbs with a 90' barb to the inlet tube.  I then run the petcock outlet to a 90' inline fuel filter then directly into the valve.  I can supply pics if anyone is interested.

I can redline the bike at anytime with no issue of fuel starvation.

Cogwheel...


Im interested

Me too.
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Offline rickm_tx

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Re: Electronic Fuel Cut Off
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2015, 03:10:23 pm »
Hi all,

here is the attached picture with the fuel valve with the 90' barb to the carb inlet. 2nd picture shows valve sitting on top of carb 2.  more to come.

Thanks for the pics.  This helps a lot.
2005 Concours, Gold

Brakes are for sissys.