Author Topic: HID help  (Read 4282 times)

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Offline CraigK

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HID help
« on: May 20, 2012, 10:05:15 pm »
Hi,

Looking for some help with an HID kit for my 2000 Connie. I did set it up as the directions stated but when I turn the bike on to get the head light to come on, I only get the high beam on and it turns on the blue indicator as well, (even tho it is set to the low beam) but if I switch it to high beam, it shuts the light off.  ???
This is one of the bi-xenon kits with the moving light set up.

Thanks in advance.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: HID help
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 10:17:38 pm »
sounds like it's plugged into the wrong spots in the stock headlight connector- steve
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Offline CraigK

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Re: HID help
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 10:46:37 pm »
Steve, can you see if you set up has the same as mine? I'll attach some pics of my harness at the light.
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Offline Jaracer64

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Re: HID help
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2012, 03:21:08 am »
I had to bypass my reserve headlight unit. I used a cotter pen to jump the connector after unplugging, and put it in heat shrink. I will try to look for which pins they were in the morning on my way to work.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: HID help
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2012, 09:56:08 am »
2k's don't have reserve lighting. that's not the issue here. I can't tell anything by the pics, wiring really needs to be done by schematic. Refer to your hid schematic and the bike's schematic and be sure the appropriate wires are plugged into the right spots - Steve
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Offline Disaster

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Re: HID help
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2012, 10:43:27 am »
Total newb on Connie, but I've done a lot of research on HID mods.  The only right way to do it is with a projector retrofit.  HID bulbs, in reflector housings will scatter light in all the wrong places, appearing brighter, but actually reducing visibility and create glare for oncoming traffic.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

The right way to do it, is to buy a projector off Ebay and modify it to fit where the old headlight was.  HID's take a few seconds to warm up, and they don't like to be cycled on and off (shortens their lifetime) so they aren't good for high beams.  That is why you see modern cars with a projector housing (HID low beam) and a conventional reflector housing (halogen high beam.)  Some use a movable shield, on the HID bulb, that uncovers part of the bulb for high beam...using just one HID that stays on all the time.

Alternatively, there are often brighter halogens you can buy to replace your existing light.  I found a European Bosch light that replaced my Miata's stock meager headlight and was much, much brighter.

Personally, I can't wait till retrofit LED's are available.  But, right now, they are insanely expensive.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: HID help
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2012, 12:54:58 pm »
Total newb on Connie, but I've done a lot of research on HID mods.  The only right way to do it is with a projector retrofit.  HID bulbs, in reflector housings will scatter light in all the wrong places, appearing brighter, but actually reducing visibility and create glare for oncoming traffic.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

The right way to do it, is to buy a projector off Ebay and modify it to fit where the old headlight was.  HID's take a few seconds to warm up, and they don't like to be cycled on and off (shortens their lifetime) so they aren't good for high beams.  That is why you see modern cars with a projector housing (HID low beam) and a conventional reflector housing (halogen high beam.)  Some use a movable shield, on the HID bulb, that uncovers part of the bulb for high beam...using just one HID that stays on all the time.

Alternatively, there are often brighter halogens you can buy to replace your existing light.  I found a European Bosch light that replaced my Miata's stock meager headlight and was much, much brighter.

Personally, I can't wait till retrofit LED's are available.  But, right now, they are insanely expensive.


   2Fast and Daytona Mike did quite a bit of research before we went to the HID's. You're information is more theoretical than practical; If you actually experienced HID, even in the stock reflector, you'ld see what I mean. No going back to incandescent, ever. Steve
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Offline CraigK

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Re: HID help
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2012, 01:24:54 pm »
As far as I can tell, it is connected correctly. The schematic isn’t all that informative as far as exactly which color wires should be in what position in the wiring harness.  I thought the same thing, that it is wired wrong but I figured I would ask if anyone had the same problem and knew something. I have used these on a few cars and it’s pretty straight forward on how to hook it up. There really is only one way to connect the wires with the way it’s constructed. I thought it could be a grounding issue so I tried a few different places on the bike and I think I have the best connection as far as that goes.  But to make sure it wasn’t the bike I bought a standard bulb and plugged it in and that works fine. I also looked at the repair manual and Steve is correct, the reserve headlight unit set up is only up to a certain year (93 or 99) where my bike is a 2000. I took the picture to see if, by chance someone would have the same color wire set up from their kit and could tell me that “Oh, the Blue and the White wires are reversed.” Or something like that. But I think I will just contact the seller and see what they have to say. 
IMO, Xenon is what I like to use. My experience has been that it will throw more light and even a better quality of it that helps with night driving. I have also used better halogens and to be honest, they don’t last as long and over the same time frame, they end up costing more money.
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Offline Disaster

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Re: HID help
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2012, 02:46:49 pm »

   2Fast and Daytona Mike did quite a bit of research before we went to the HID's. You're information is more theoretical than practical; If you actually experienced HID, even in the stock reflector, you'ld see what I mean. No going back to incandescent, ever. Steve

My information is straight up Physics...light...angle of reflection equals angle of index.  You can't beat the laws of Physics. 

I experienced HID's in reflector housings from both sides.  Put one in myself.  Thought it was much brighter because it "looks" brighter.  Was schooled by lighting experts.  Went back and did actual tests and found while certain areas were much brighter, overall, some areas were much darker...creating blind spots.  The bright areas actually work against you...closing your pupil down to the poorly illuminated areas.  I found I could see more where it really counted with the weaker standard bulbs.  I also have experience from the other side...being blinded by HID bulbs in standard housings.  They scatter light into the eyes of oncoming traffic.  Some people aim them lower to compensate but that just makes them work even more poorly...illuminating very brightly right in front of the car, while leaving HUGE areas too dark.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: HID help
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2012, 03:08:00 pm »
thanks Disaster, My experience with HID is strictly limited to several  c-10's, and a couple voyagers, which use the same reflector that the c-10's use. I stand corrected - Steve
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Offline Slybones

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Re: HID help
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2012, 05:15:17 pm »
My experience is limited too. Personally I was thinking that the Connie didnt have crap for a reflector design and relied largely on the defused pattern in the front glass to provide the light pattern. Most of the vehicles I see with a decent reflector design have clear glass at the front lens and rely on the reflector design, like on mybtruck. And I am not thinking projector. My wife has these in her car and they appear quite different than whats on my truck, which is different than the old fashion defused glass. This is not to say the old defused glass models to not have a reflector in there. They do. I was just thinking the reflector has little design to it, and that its not responsible for much of the light pattern and how light gets focus on the road. Its the funky shaped glass pattern in the front lens that does it.

I can both agree and disagree with Disaster, and tend to agree with Steve's initial comment about practical application, based on my limited experience.

In my truck I replaced the defused glass lens headlights with some reflector headlights ( not projector ) many years ago. What I referred to above. They have a interesting reflector design on the inside and clear glass lens up front. Versus the strange defused glass pattern the stock ones had. --  Now I have a VVME 55w in them. The low beams rock. They are way brighter than the stock bulbs even in the reflector design housing. You can try and feed me the "I did some tests, there are blinds spots, they are working against you"  crap all you want. It will be a cold day in hell before I take these out. -- On the other hand high beams completely suck. Virtually worthless. With the stock bulbs high beams worked, not that great, but they worked. High beams with the HID kit scatter light in every direction but the road. 100% worthless. -- My current plan is to unplug the wire that make the bub position change. Given the Bi-Xenon kits stay lit on both the low and high beam positions, I am thinking unplugging it so it just stays on low beam ( which I will stick with  ) and then get driving lights attached to the high beam signal for down the road high beams.

So I can agree that with a reflector designed headlight, HID may or may not work. And in the case of my high beams on the truck, it not a matter of a blind spot, etc. They are completely worthless.

On the Connie I have the 35W VVME kit and I think the lighting pattern is pretty good. Both low beam and high beam. However I am not impressed with the brightness. I have read the 55W kits are posta be 3.5x brighter and I believe that by the truck low beams. The 35W kits are posta be 2.0x brighter. And in my Connie its not there. Its a disappointment.  On my Connie with the 35W kit I can agree with Disaster. The light is brigher straight in front of the bike compared to the Phillips Extreme Vision +80 ( which is brighther than stock bulb ) that I removed, but the light off to the side / shoulder of the road is not as good as it could be. His point is accurate, last leas for my Connie.

Having said that, since the pattern on low beam and high beam is pretty well aimed, and not all ####ed up like my truck high beams, maybe with the 55W kit and the extra brightness it would be ok.

So I guess in the end having wrote all that looks like I agree with him more that I disagree with him.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: HID help
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2012, 06:32:16 pm »
 Sly - Daytona Mike did some testing, messing around with removing the shield that goes in front of the HID bulb. I actually cut the entire piece off mine, and it's really amazing how well it focused the high beam. The low beam is scattered and wide, but it doesn't affect oncoming traffic ever  (never get flashed) so I'm calling it good. It does throw light up into trees, but 2fast and I both found the same answer independently - paint off about 2" of the front of the bulb and it doesn't light up the trees anymore. his is painted; I decide to leave mine without the paint as I find lighting up the trees on low beam helps me see the impending curves in a road when it's dark. Now on high beam it ROCKS, very focused and directed down the road. My wife and I were out riding this weekend in the dark, and I can say the piecing, directed beam was really reassuring. This really is a case where reality is alot better than one might expect. Steve
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Offline Slybones

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Re: HID help
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2012, 07:11:29 pm »
Steve,

On the truck I will try playing with the shield removed and in place and see what difference that makes. Although on the truck I really do suspect is has a lot to do with the reflector design. -- Where on the Connie I still think ( and would like to hear a lighting expert explain more to me ) the reflector plays only a small role in the light pattern and its mostly the difused glass. Anyways.... I'll play with it and see.

On the Connie my questions are the following and are related to my belief the light pattern is pretty good, but the brightness of my 35W kit it not what I was hoping for. And IMO not the 2.0x advertised. For the Connie I have not gotten around to playing with it yet. Wife and I are leaving for the Grand Canyon with the Truck and Travel Trailer this weekend. That has been my focus for a while. Since the Connie is working nice and daily commute is going w/o a hitch, this has not reached the top the list yet.

1. Will removing the shield increase the brightness some?

2. How is the scattering of the light on low beam with shield on, shield off, whole piece removed?  Kinda wondering it that was not scattered with the shield and only scattered after removing it, or the whole thing. Or if always scattered, did it get worse, without the shield, etc. Then kinda thoughts.

Thanks


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Offline CraigK

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Re: HID help
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2012, 07:36:14 pm »
I think with the Connie I would rather have someone comment "Did you see that guy with the bright headlight?" rather than "I didn't see him coming".
I am sure someone will say that I would be P***ing the other drivers off. I guess it's all about what your priorities are.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 07:41:12 pm by CraigK »
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: HID help
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2012, 07:50:03 pm »
 Sly, I had a 35w, no comparison to 55w.

 as far as scattered, been awhile - last fall - when i was messing with it. IIRC, the cutoff line on low beam is where the biggest effect was - it wasn't as defined with the shield removed. if lookin on a wall, there is a dark area that prevents oncoming traffic from being blinded. This would most qualify as the dark spot disaster was referring to. there is light above that dark area. when riding, you don't sensa a dark spot, it's just the final reach of low beam, and is appropriate. high beem is bada$$.

 BTW I took off a brand new dual headlight kit with the projector beam to put this HID on the connie. I have run HID on the voyagers for about 3 years. Side by side, the voyager KILLED the dual headlight. HTH, Steve
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Offline Gitbox

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Re: HID help
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 07:56:09 pm »
I just installed the VVME 35W kit and it is WAY brighter than stock. I still have to do some aiming but this is the brightest, most pupil shrinking MC headlight I've ever driven with.

BTW Steve, what did you and 2fast paint?
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: HID help
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 08:00:03 pm »
he painted the bottom 2" or so of the stock headlight glass. I taped mine off, but decided if the oncoming traffic didn't have an issue, then I kinda liked the tree-lighting feature. Steve
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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: HID help
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 08:46:59 pm »
I think with the Connie I would rather have someone comment "Did you see that guy with the bright headlight?" rather than "I didn't see him coming".
I am sure someone will say that I would be P***ing the other drivers off. I guess it's all about what your priorities are.

Or how about this:

I was blinded by the mis aimed headlight on that motorcycle I just ran over with my 80,000 lbs of steel, aluminum, diesel fuel, battery acid, liquid chemical(cargo), etc...
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: HID help
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 08:50:50 pm »
Hi,

Looking for some help with an HID kit for my 2000 Connie. I did set it up as the directions stated but when I turn the bike on to get the head light to come on, I only get the high beam on and it turns on the blue indicator as well, (even tho it is set to the low beam) but if I switch it to high beam, it shuts the light off.  ???
This is one of the bi-xenon kits with the moving light set up.

Thanks in advance.
Hey Craig,
I am hoping your problem is the same that I have seen on quite a few other kits I have installed. The wiring of the bike is correct.
It is the  headlight 3 prong adapter/ pickup  from the HID kit that is wrong.
I hope you have a multimeter so you can which pin has the 12volts coming from the bike on low beam. The tiny red wire that runs the solenoid  ( this wire  to moves the bulb)  does not go to the low beam 12volts. Normally I have to swap the  high beam with the low beam by pulling the 2 female spade connectors out of the plug.

By the way, the bulb is supposed to move backward into the housing for high beam and then forward for low beam.
 If it is moving up   and down that is not proper and is a sign of a sloppy bulb housing.  There is normally  a tiny bit of play up and down on a well made bi-Xenon bulb.


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Offline Slybones

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Re: HID help
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2012, 10:44:58 pm »
I just installed the VVME 35W kit and it is WAY brighter than stock. I still have to do some aiming but this is the brightest, most pupil shrinking MC headlight I've ever driven with.

BTW Steve, what did you and 2fast paint?

Did you do the digital slim ballast or the regular ballast. For me there is no way the 35W VVME is  'WAY' brighter that stock. For me its brighter but I would call it 10 or 20 % better. Not 100% better. Not even close.
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Offline Gitbox

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Re: HID help
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2012, 11:00:26 pm »
Sorry to hear that, Sly. I'm just reporting my experience.

I have the digital slim ballast, btw.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: HID help
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2012, 11:53:06 pm »
I just installed the VVME 35W kit and it is WAY brighter than stock. I still have to do some aiming but this is the brightest, most pupil shrinking MC headlight I've ever driven with.

BTW Steve, what did you and 2fast paint?

Did you do the digital slim ballast or the regular ballast. For me there is no way the 35W VVME is  'WAY' brighter that stock. For me its brighter but I would call it 10 or 20 % better. Not 100% better. Not even close.

That is because you got one that the pot is turned way down. Many of the 35 watt'ers came that way.
You can buy a slim  version or open your  unit up and turn the pot counter clockwise and you would now have a 55 watt unit. You have to chip off the black resin to get at it.
Yours is defective. You should get at minimum double two triple the  stock out put.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: HID help
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2012, 12:58:12 am »
I have the digital slim ballast as well.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: HID help
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2012, 01:01:32 am »
I just installed the VVME 35W kit and it is WAY brighter than stock. I still have to do some aiming but this is the brightest, most pupil shrinking MC headlight I've ever driven with.

BTW Steve, what did you and 2fast paint?

Did you do the digital slim ballast or the regular ballast. For me there is no way the 35W VVME is  'WAY' brighter that stock. For me its brighter but I would call it 10 or 20 % better. Not 100% better. Not even close.

That is because you got one that the pot is turned way down. Many of the vvme 35 watt'ers came that way.
You can buy a slim  version or open your  unit up and turn the pot counter clockwise and you would now have a 55 watt unit. You have to chip off the black resin to get at it.
Yours is defective. You should get at minimum double or  triple the  light of  a stock bulb.

I saw you mentioned turning up the pot in another thread. Are the 35W and 55W bulbs the same?  Maybe I can just buy a 55 watt ballast if the bulbs are the same?
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: HID help
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2012, 01:04:43 am »
I have the digital slim ballast as well.
Something is very wrong.  If you look at the specs for  incadescant versus and HID you can see there is  HUGE increase.
HID is very very bright and works really well on the C10.

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