Author Topic: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !! New pics added  (Read 7965 times)

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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2012, 08:06:42 pm »
Okay, I guess I missed the older thread on this that defines the "Ontario Lowers." Anyone know who first bought one of these headers?
I assume this COG member would recall the name of the builder/shop who did the job. If I had this name, I could get in touch with the
business and get some details to post back here on the forum.

Thanks, guys.

Simon
[/quote]

That COG member would be me. I bought the first one off of ebay and did the first mod. I do not know how long the Ontario Exhaust company has been out of business.
I have tried googling "Ontario Exhaust" but have never gotten any responses.
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2012, 08:08:50 pm »
And those lowers were built for the ZX1000 Ninja IIRC.

Ok Rev, I found the original sticker from the Ontario pipe and it says: Part #502-865 Kawasaki ZX-10 header pipe 1989-90.
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 01:12:52 am »
And those lowers were built for the ZX1000 Ninja IIRC.

Ok Rev, I found the original sticker from the Ontario pipe and it says: Part #502-865 Kawasaki ZX-10 header pipe 1989-90.

Ahhhhh, then that would actually fit 88-90.  That is the ZX10B that has the rods used in the 1052 and the oistons used in my little scooter Xsperiment. 
I was thinking they were for the 85-87 ZX-10A.
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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2012, 01:20:02 pm »
I have a set of the Ontario's out in my shop. I'll look at them tonight and see if there is a sticker that gives any information on the Company that built them. Or maybe we could contact the Company that sells them from Ebay. he might be able to tell us where he found them?

NOTE: I've been waiting to hear from Steve on this discussion. He built 2 sets, and I think (because of the work he did) he feels that all the work is not worth the effort.

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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 08:06:31 pm »
I have a set of the Ontario's out in my shop. I'll look at them tonight and see if there is a sticker that gives any information on the Company that built them. Or maybe we could contact the Company that sells them from Ebay. he might be able to tell us where he found them?

NOTE: I've been waiting to hear from Steve on this discussion. He built 2 sets, and I think (because of the work he did) he feels that all the work is not worth the effort.

Ride safe, Ted

Well in defense of that statement, my design does get rid of the torque dip at 4,000 to 5,000rpm that all C-10's have.
And besides Ted its worth it to be able to say that we have something no one else has. I've always said that the worst thing you can ever tell me is "they don't make one of those for your bike". 
"Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug" Get used to it cause thats life !!!

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2012, 09:17:46 pm »
 Hey, how'd I get dragged into this?  ???

  the ontario's are 88 to 90, I remember from when we bought them "back in the day"

  Jim is absolutely correct, his pipe has a pancake flat torque curve; there's no dip with his pipe at all. I built one like it, except i could keep the centerstand, and then the 4-2-1 that I have now. Personally, based on the work, I have yet to see a pipe that really impresses me with a big HP gain. Both Jim's and my pipe are unique, but for me, that's not enough - I want to see a power increase, and to be honest, even my pipe only matches the stock pipe, power-wise. Yeah, it's lighter, yeah, it's cool, so what, i want to see 10 more HP. I personally don't care if it's silent if it'll make more power. that's just me, and my thoughts ought not suppress Jim or anyone else from pursuing a better pipe - it's the only way we'll learn what works and what doesn't. Steve
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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2012, 10:14:09 pm »
If it removed the torque dip at 4K to 5K, then it has to be adding more power at that RPM range. Maybe not peak horsepower, but if the torque increased at that RPM then the horsepower at that RPM increased as well.

Its a math formula.     HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252

if it gained 2.0 ft/lbs of torque at 5000 RPM, then 2 * 5000 = 10,000 / 5252 = 1.9 HP increase at 5000 RPM.
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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2012, 10:22:31 pm »
(Steve Question) Hey, how'd I get dragged into this?  ???
       Ted Answer,,, Because your opinion is Sooo important to us.. (And because it's fun ta pick on ya).... <evil grin>

(Jim Satement): And besides Ted its worth it to be able to say that we have something no one else has.
       Ted Answer,,,  Yupp!!!
(Jim Satement): I've always said that the worst thing you can ever tell me is "they don't make one of those for your bike". 
       Ted Answer,,,  Yupp!!!

(Steve Statement): I want to see 10 more HP.
       Everyone's Answer,,,  Yupp!!!

Group Question: How do we get more Mid range and more peak HP?:
       THE Obvious Answer: Lets's keep workin on it. Mebbe we'll figure something out!!
       Everyone's Answer,,,  Yupp!!!

Ride safe, Ted
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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2012, 11:02:35 pm »
Jim, what's the latest on your pipes. Get them back?
Anxious to hear how they fit???

I installed the pipes and a Cobra Muffler this weekend, but haven't had time to attach the plastic.
Had some problems with radiator/etc clearance, but think I got that solved.    Geez that is a tight fit!!
Hopefully the plastic will clear everything.... (I hope)

Working on the Jardine Muffler Modification now.

Ride safe, Ted

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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2012, 11:47:49 pm »
Quote
Okay, I guess I missed the older thread on this that defines the "Ontario Lowers." Anyone know who first bought one of these headers?
I assume this COG member would recall the name of the builder/shop who did the job. If I had this name, I could get in touch with the
business and get some details to post back here on the forum.

Thanks, guys.

Simon


That COG member would be me. I bought the first one off of ebay and did the first mod. I do not know how long the Ontario Exhaust company has been out of business.
I have tried googling "Ontario Exhaust" but have never gotten any responses.


I found an old post on an FZR forum that says that the Ontario system was built for Sudco by Hindle, who are still in business.

http://www.fzrarchives.com/ipb/lofiversion/index.php?t28974.html

http://www.hindle.com/

If you're really interested, it might be worth a call.
Gary F.

1998 ZGX1100
Central Valley California

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2012, 01:17:36 pm »
Thanks Gary. I attempted to call them.
Still to early in the day. I sent them a note requesting assistance.
Will let you know if they reply.

They are still in Ontario. (If anyone is near them migh it be possible to go directly to their Business?)
Phone number is: Tel. (905) 985-6111

HINDLE PRODUCTS LTD.
140 North Port Road
Port Perry, Ontario

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 01:20:34 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline ChipDoc

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2012, 02:30:01 pm »
Need a little something to feed your GPS?

 44° 6'12.60"N  78°58'35.32"W

44.1033 N  78.9764 W

Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2012, 06:20:21 pm »
Jim, what's the latest on your pipes. Get them back?
Anxious to hear how they fit???

 Ride safe, Ted

Called them this morning and they said it will be next week before they are done. They had ALOT of stuff
to coat when I was there. So the bike will be in pieces for another week atleast. I'm changing all the fluids
(oil and new coolant cocktail mix) but that won't take long. I wish they would hurry I'm ready to fire this puppy up.
"Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug" Get used to it cause thats life !!!

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2012, 09:26:04 pm »
Quote
Okay, I guess I missed the older thread on this that defines the "Ontario Lowers." Anyone know who first bought one of these headers?
I assume this COG member would recall the name of the builder/shop who did the job. If I had this name, I could get in touch with the
business and get some details to post back here on the forum.

Thanks, guys.

Simon


That COG member would be me. I bought the first one off of ebay and did the first mod. I do not know how long the Ontario Exhaust company has been out of business.
I have tried googling "Ontario Exhaust" but have never gotten any responses.


I found an old post on an FZR forum that says that the Ontario system was built for Sudco by Hindle, who are still in business.

http://www.fzrarchives.com/ipb/lofiversion/index.php?t28974.html

http://www.hindle.com/

If you're really interested, it might be worth a call.



GF-in-CA:

Thanks for the link to Hindle. I had a header + pipe combo from him many moons ago, on my 1982 Maxim 650. He builds great stuff.

Anyway, unless I'm missing something, I don't see anything in his catalogue for us C10 guys. He does make a slip-on adapter and choices of several mufflers for the C14, though.

I have a friend who lives just minutes away from the Hindle shop, and he says Hindle does do custom work, but it's pricey.

I'll make a call next week and put some feelers out.
-----------------------------------------------------
Still waiting to hear Jim's new setup:)


Simon


Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2012, 10:55:14 pm »
Shaft-drive,

I'm not surprised they don't make anything for the C10, I was responding to an earlier post that was wondering who made the Ontario systems.   ;)  I was thinking that if Hindle made the original systems that they would have some idea if someone took over production or the remote possibility that there were some old headers sitting somewhere gathering dust.  I'm pretty sure that even when the systems were offered, there wasn't one for the C10.  The one Jim is using was made for the ZX1000, and won't fit the C10 directly, which is why Jim had to adapt it to fit.

HTH,
Gary F.

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Central Valley California

Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2012, 12:20:22 am »
Yes the Ontario pipe I used was for the 88-90 ZX-10. I would love to know if Hindle still has any of these pipes laying around in the back somewhere. I would buy a few of them if they did.
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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2012, 12:59:31 pm »
Yes the Ontario pipe I used was for the 88-90 ZX-10. I would love to know if Hindle still has any of these pipes laying around in the back somewhere. I would buy a few of them if they did.

Last week, I sent Hindle a note asking if they would be interested in building lowers, or entire systems for us.
Didn't think to ask about spare parts laying around.
From what I can tell they now build the pipes out of thin wall Stainless or maybe Titanium. Mostly Racing oriented. (High $$ products).     No reply yet.

I may call them next week and see if they will talk to me about it. Worstcase, they can just hang up on me..... :)

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2012, 12:35:30 am »
Yes the Ontario pipe I used was for the 88-90 ZX-10. I would love to know if Hindle still has any of these pipes laying around in the back somewhere. I would buy a few of them if they did.

Last week, I sent Hindle a note asking if they would be interested in building lowers, or entire systems for us.
Didn't think to ask about spare parts laying around.
From what I can tell they now build the pipes out of thin wall Stainless or maybe Titanium. Mostly Racing oriented. (High $$ products).     No reply yet.

I may call them next week and see if they will talk to me about it. Worstcase, they can just hang up on me..... :)

Ride safe, Ted

Yeah it would be cool if they had a room full of left over ZX-10 stuff that we could buy for cheap.
"Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug" Get used to it cause thats life !!!

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2012, 01:12:18 pm »
Still no reply from them. They may be laughing at my note......

If anyone can go by there place,,, do it! Tell em' we're interested in working with them or buying old stock...

Installed my Home Made 4 into 1's this weekend.
After a lot of fine tuning (Hammering and bending), everything fit.
Centerstand works. Side stand ok.
The larger headpipes are very NEAR everything! partially because I Wrapped head pipes and water line with header wrap to help control heat up front.   Plastic is not melting!
Muffler (left side) aligned with exhaust very close to it's original position.

Rode the bike. Less than satisfied, but think I have a small miss. Feels like I have a plug wire that is not seated. At low RPM's. it throbs like 1 plug is missfiring. Mid Range feels great, no miss at high RPM's but top RPM's seem a bit lacking.

Guess the gas tank and some plastic has to come off again... arghhhhhhh

Guess I need the Master,,,,,,,  Jim, come to my house and help!!!!!!!

Ride safe, Ted
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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2012, 05:42:45 pm »
Got a reply from Hindle.
Below are notes to date: My note (today) is in blue...
I don't know if this is possible, but let's see what happens.


Ride safe, Ted

Hello Alison;
The Ontario Systems were  purchased approx. 1-2 years ago from Ebay.
Apparently someone bought New/Old Stock Ontario Systems and sold them.
I know of approx 10 that were sold.
   I have 1 (of those 10) in my shop (uninstalled).

As it happens we do have someone that is near you in Ontario. So, it might be possible for a Fitment.
 
I think that we could supply my existing (Your old Ontario) system, a bike for fitments, and the dimensions required to modify (my existing parts).
Using this information, could you develop a complete system for us? Or, could you to build a slip on system for us?

As far as 5 system purchase, we would have to see what we could work out.
I would need to have an approximate cost to proceed.

If needed, I am willing to call you to discuss this further.

Ride safe, Ted


 -----Original Message-----
From: Hindle Exhaust Systems [mailto:info@hindle.com]
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 9:20 AM
To: Adcock, Ted W SIEP-PTI/UH
Subject: Re: Lower Pipes for Kawasaki Concours. (ZG-1000)

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Hindle Exhaust Systems.

Were these systems purchased recently? We, unfortunately, no longer have
the systems in production.

A minimum order quantity of generally 5 systems (depending on the costs
involved) is needed. However, we would require the actual motorcycle unit
here for fitment, as we cannot prepare systems from dimensions (without
testing fitment, etc.).

I hope this information helps answer your questions. Please feel free to
contact us at any time should you have any other questions about our
products. We are here to help.

Kind regards,
Alison


> I am a member of the Concours Owners Group (COG).>
>
> One of the COG members (Jim Snyder) purchased several sets of Ontario
> Pipes built for a (approx 1990 ZX-1000).>
> He attached the lower portion of the pipes to the head Pipes of a stock
> ZG-1000.>
> Note: We know this is not a properly designed header system, but the
> Dyno shows that he achieved better low/mid range with a smoother torque
> curve.>
>
> After some digging we learned that Mr Hindle designed and built the
> Ontario system that we are using.    I assume/hope that you still have the pattern for the Ontario System
> that we are using?
>
> If not, I do have 1 (unmodified) set of the Ontario's that we are using.
> Problem is, we can no longer find the old Pipes to use.>
>
> We are asking if Hindle would be interested in developing a system
> themselves, using our dimensions to build headers, or building us more
> of the lowers (that we could attach to our stock Head Pipes).
>
> I realize that this will not be a large quantity product for you, I
> understand tooling costs etc.
>
> Just attempting to find a solution to our needs.>
>
> Thank you, Ted Adcock
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Offline Shaft-Drive

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2012, 05:59:03 pm »
Great work, Ted! I was just about to call Hindle myself.

I would be willing to head over there with my bike for the fitment process, but it wouldn't be until late March, when I usually get my bike on the road.

I am most interested in the slip-on route, if that's possible. As for a complete new system, it would depend on the cost.

Simon

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2012, 10:38:19 pm »
My assumption is a "slip on" system would be a cut and slip on.

I'm assuming all they would do with a slip on would be to reproduce the basic Ontario System that Jim Modifies.
We would have to cut our headpipes off of our system and slip it into their lowers.

Question is, is it worth the cost, does it do anything, and how much will it cost?

I'll let ya'll know more when they contact me again.
Ride safe, Ted
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Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2012, 11:10:12 pm »
 slipons are just mufflers.

  Have your checkbook ready.  :-\ Steve
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2012, 02:37:38 am »
Just got both headers back from the ceramic coating place today, THEY LOOK AWESOME !!! I will post pictures tomorrow. 
"Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug" Get used to it cause thats life !!!

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Re: New 4 into 1 pipe finally finished !!
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2012, 01:10:16 pm »
slipons are just mufflers.
  Have your checkbook ready.  :-\ Steve

I agree that Slip On's are mufflers, but in this case, we're referring to the lower half as the slip on.
I doubt "VERY MUCH" that anything will come of this, but I'm easily entertained....
But, like you said,,, $$$$$$.


Ride safe, Ted
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Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

If your not already a COGger, "consider becoming one".
Help us make "OtP" possible again!!