Author Topic: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild  (Read 17189 times)

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2014, 03:24:44 pm »
You know you want to Steve  >:D  :)

  I think I've said that before, but there was always a female name at the end of it  ;)  Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2014, 02:08:52 am »
So, have you done a twisty ride yet?
How does she handle?

Ride safe, Ted
Ted, unfortunately today is just the 3 day I have actually been able to ride it and that has been back and forth to work. I haven't had the opportunity to wear the "new" off of the tires yet. Plus its been 40* F or colder (33*F this morning) when I get on the bike the last couple of days. Soooooo, no, no spirited riding yet. I'm also working on getting the forks dialed in. These inverted forks are VERY sensitive to adjustments. I also think the right fork has a problem that needs to be addressed. There is a "knock" that can be felt and heard when holding the front brakes and compressing the suspension. I'm not fluent in this suspension set-up, but I don't think its normal.
 
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2014, 02:19:54 am »
Looks great  :great:  :beerchug: What front fender did you use?  Let me know if you need info on adjusting the front end.
Thanks Gary. IIRC, the front fender is from a zx7...... 94-95 maybe? I had to drill 2 mounting holes to make it work. I just didn't like the way the 94-95 zx9 front fenders looked. This one looked closer to the Connie front fender. It is red, but not the same color and I want to put a fenda extenda on it if there is one available. Oh, and I would love some help with setting up the front end. Keep in mind, I'm in the mid 250's weight wise. I think I am going to have to pull the forks and service them. I threw caution to the wind and just bolted them up without checking on the internals. The right fork has a "knock" that can be felt and heard. Do you by chance know what fluid and how much goes in these forks? Thanks
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2014, 02:38:53 am »
That's a super sharp bike there, woody. I think it might actually be convincing me to do a modern front end on Shoodaben.  >:D  Steve
Thanks Steve. She is Purdy. The bike definitely  handles better. The turn in is almost telepathic. The bike FEELS lighter. I'm also doing the same type of build on another Concours but this one will have a ZRX front end. Also, I can't tell you just how good this bike runs. I'm still fine tuning the foam but right now its pretty darn quick. I had a little open road today on the way in to work and just twisting the throttle in high gear and... wow, am I really going 110? really surprised me. I haven't checked the accuracy of the speedometer yet (comparing to GPS tomorrow morning) but still, this thing pulls.  :great:
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 11:01:23 am by txfatboy »
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2014, 03:38:35 am »
Looks great  :great:  :beerchug: What front fender did you use?  Let me know if you need info on adjusting the front end.

Thanks Gary. IIRC, the front fender is from a zx7...... 94-95 maybe? I had to drill 2 mounting holes to make it work. I just didn't like the way the 94-95 zx9 front fenders looked. This one looked closer to the Connie front fender. It is red, but not the same color and I want to put a fenda extenda on it if there is one available. Oh, and I would love some help with setting up the front end. Keep in mind, I'm in the mid 250's weight wise. I think I am going to have to pull the forks and service them. I threw caution to the wind and just bolted them up without checking on the internals. The right fork has a "knock" that can be felt and heard. Do you by chance know what fluid and how much goes in these forks? Thanks


Woody, I think this may be the right Fenda Extenda:

http://www.amazon.com/1991-1993-KAWASAKI-ZX7-ZXR-Motorcycle-Extenda/dp/B002EAGOCC

I would recommend doing at least a service on the forks.  The factory manual specifies 5W oil, which is the thinnest fork oil you can get.  It wouldn't surprise me if someone unknowingly put some thicker oil in, and that may be why the forks seem so stiff.  I also recommend making sure your fork tubes are aligned.  I can give you details on a method to do that if you're interested.

The stock springs are a little under 1.0 kg/mm, but with your weight I would recommend upgrading to 1.1 kg/mm springs.  I am lighter than you and wasn't able to get the sag in the preferred range with the stock springs.  You will probably also need to add some preload at the spring spacer to get the right sag.  I haven't found any springs stiffer than 1.1 kg/mm.

The factory oil level is 86 mm from the top with the springs out and fork compressed.  You'll need to buy or make a tool to compress the spring in order to remove the top cap and the remove the spring.

The rebound damping adjustment is on the top of the fork and the compression adjustment is down near the axle.  I have mine adjusted to full soft on both rebound and compression and I still need them to be a little softer.  Since the fork oil is already as thin as it can be, I'll be doing a revalve this winter.  With your weight you may find that the factory range is OK.

I found an online zx9 service manual here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24572077/Kawasaki-ZX-9R-ZX900-B1-4-94-a-97-Service-Manual#


HTH, let me know if you need anything else.   :great:
Gary F.

1998 ZGX1100
Central Valley California

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2014, 10:58:10 am »
Thanks for the info Gary. The manual is just what I needed. Once I get the tools (or make them) I will pull the forks and service them.
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2014, 02:57:04 am »
Well, I'm still waiting on the fork oil I ordered. The new seals are here already. As soon as the oil gets here, I will pull the forks and take them apart. I also have been working on a rear shock combination and I am happy to say I rode it home tonight and it was sweet. This Concours (and the 2000) have always had a so-so ride as far as the rear shock is concerned. I had installed the ZZR1200 rear shock and it was an improvement but was a little soft (as some have pointed out), an issue made worse due to my 250lb weight. I saw where someone posted a question asking if the zx9 rear shock would fit. Since I was still looking for a solution I started to do some research. What I found was the 94-95 ZX9 rear shock is 13 3/4 inches long center of eye to center of eye. The stock air shock I removed was 13 inches. The ZX9 upper mount is the same as the ZZR1200 and required grinding on each side of the center bushing to fit in the Concours frame. The ZX9 lower mount is exactly the same as the ZZR1200. The 94-95 ZX9 shock has a remote reservoir. It also has separate compression and rebound adjustments just like the front forks. The factory installed rear spring is way too soft to be used on the Concours. I found a 95 ZX9 rear shock for a price I was willing to pay. I made sure the res. had no pressure and took the hose off of the shock and res. I drained the oil, flushed the inside of the shock and res. out, then added new 10 weight oil. Once the assembly was filled with oil I took the ZZR1200 spring and remote preload adjuster off and swapped them to the  ZX9 shock. I turned the manual spanner adjusters all the way up to the top and modified the larger ring to allow the lock tab on the preload adjuster to lock in place. Then I put it all back together and installed it. I have temporarily pressurized the res. with 125 PSI shop air (specs I believe is 150 PSI nitrogen). The preload adjuster was set to 2, the rebound was set to 2, and the compression adjustment was 8 clicks out from full in. All I can say is the ride home was the smoothest, most composed I have ever experienced. There are a few places on the streets going home that have horrible washboard pavement. It honestly felt like the road had been repaved. It was great. Absolutely a compliment to the inverted forks, very balanced composed. I can't wait to see how it rides after I service the forks.
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2014, 05:09:59 pm »
That's great Woody, I was thinking about the ZX9 shock myself and it's good to see that you've confirmed that it will work   :beerchug:  The nice thing about that shock is that it is rebuild-able and there are other springs available for it, unlike the ZZR1200 shock.  You've definitely got me thinking...  >:D  Because of the slightly increased length, you may want to consider increasing the sag slightly to get the rear ride height closer to stock.

On the forks, Racetech recommends an oil level of 110 mm, quite a bit lower than stock, so you may want to initially try something between the two.  That is what I plan to do in a few weeks when I service/ revalve mine.
Gary F.

1998 ZGX1100
Central Valley California

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2014, 04:53:55 am »
Thanks for the fork info Gary. I finally got the 5 weight oil in today. I may go ahead and order some fork slider bushings and replace them while I have the forks apart. That may be the source of the "knocking" and loose feeling I'm getting. It is definitely coming from the forks.... I also might have a slightly bent slider on the left side. I forgot to post a picture of the shock res. and how I mounted it. It was great that the hose was long enough to allow me to mount it where the old shock adjustments were made. It kinda looks like it belongs there. I am also checking to see if there is going to be any benefit to modifying the ZZR or ZX9 lower rocker so that either will work with the Concours. They both look like they have a more aggressive ratio and may work better with the ZZR rear spring. If I can "massage" one and get it to work without having to buy a spring, great. I'll keep you posted. I think the ZX9 rear shock is going to work out great as a budget friendly option. It will require replacing the spring but I bought mine for $45.00 (+$20.00 shipping) and it came with the lower rocker, links, and all the bolts and bushings. There are a few on ebay for around $100.00 as well. I just decided to see if I could put the remote adjuster from the ZZR shock along with the spring on to the ZX9 shock and true to Ma Kaw, the parts went together (with some minor modifications) and now I have a rebuildable, TUNEABLE, rear shock with compression, rebound, and remote preload adjustment.... all for about $130.00  :great:
Oh, and about the "sag" adjustment..... well see the prior post referencing my 250lb weight....... :)) 
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2014, 05:44:21 am »
Look what showed up in the mail today..... Now I can let the wife know I want a set of grip warmers from Santa this year.....  :)
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2014, 06:20:08 pm »
On the way home a few days ago, the seeping right fork seal turned into gushing right fork seal. It was leaking so badly the oil was blowing back onto the right lower fairing. I acquired all the parts to rebuild the forks and using a downloaded zx9 manual (thanks again Gary) and a few home made tools I jumped in. The rebuild was fairly straightforward with the only issue being you're supposed to have 2 people to compress the fork spring and at the same time insert the temporary retainer (washer with a slot cut in it). I was by myself, so I figured out a way to get the job done.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 08:08:03 pm by txfatboy »
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2016, 04:24:34 am »
Well it has been more than a year since my last post to this thread. The '91 was given a break for a while so that I could get that new bike feeling out of my system after purchasing the vmax...... I'm still waiting for that to happen..... ;)  During the down time I decided to address a few issues I was having with the ZX9 inverted forks. After the swap, I found I could not stop the right fork from leaking. Both forks had small marks on the slider tubes but they didn't seem that bad.... I guess I was wrong. Also, the right fork always felt like it had a "knock" in it like something was loose. Even after new bushings and replacing the upper tube. And, last, I found only one solution to getting the forks set up for my weight, the bikes weight, and passenger and luggage weight. The cost to do so, along with most likely having to replace both slider tubes was not something I was prepared to do. The next choice for me was a complete swap to a ZRX front end that I had purchased for another project. I wanted to try the rubber isolated handle bars and I could purchase The race tech compression and rebound gold valves and correct rate springs right off of Amazon for a great price.  I modified the upper triple clamp using Dan Bergman's example, installed the Race Tech valves and springs per the supplied instructions, the ZRXOA forum, and you tube. If the ZX9 forks made the bike better, the revalved ZRX forks went a couple notches up on that. The ride is very nice. The high speed dampening has been softened a bunch and the bike is very stable in the corners with no wobbling and very little nose dive under heavy braking. Amazing how good it can be. No doubt revalving the ZX9 forks would have improved their performance, but I wasn't ready to invest that much money.
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2016, 02:07:14 pm »
Well it has been more than a year since my last post to this thread. The '91 was given a break for a while so that I could get that new bike feeling out of my system after purchasing the vmax...... I'm still waiting for that to happen..... ;)  During the down time I decided to address a few issues I was having with the ZX9 inverted forks. After the swap, I found I could not stop the right fork from leaking. Both forks had small marks on the slider tubes but they didn't seem that bad.... I guess I was wrong. Also, the right fork always felt like it had a "knock" in it like something was loose. Even after new bushings and replacing the upper tube. And, last, I found only one solution to getting the forks set up for my weight, the bikes weight, and passenger and luggage weight. The cost to do so, along with most likely having to replace both slider tubes was not something I was prepared to do. The next choice for me was a complete swap to a ZRX front end that I had purchased for another project. I wanted to try the rubber isolated handle bars and I could purchase The race tech compression and rebound gold valves and correct rate springs right off of Amazon for a great price.  I modified the upper triple clamp using Dan Bergman's example, installed the Race Tech valves and springs per the supplied instructions, the ZRXOA forum, and you tube. If the ZX9 forks made the bike better, the revalved ZRX forks went a couple notches up on that. The ride is very nice. The high speed dampening has been softened a bunch and the bike is very stable in the corners with no wobbling and very little nose dive under heavy braking. Amazing how good it can be. No doubt revalving the ZX9 forks would have improved their performance, but I wasn't ready to invest that much money.

I am going to use the ZX9 shock on my 2006 Concours, and was wondering what spring rate to use on it. If I can find a good used ZZR1200 shock to mate the remote preload adjuster also, I will do that, but I cannot find any info on proper spring rates for the ZG1000 Concours, or the spring rate on the ZZR1200. Any ideas? It is a 9" spring, and I could order one from Eibach or RaceTech, but it would be nice to find the correct spring rate to make the purchase. I am 190lb. and the Concours is about 675lb. , or perhaps closer to 700lb. loaded.
On the front forks, I am looking at having Matt Patton convert the front stock forks to GSXR600 cartridge fork internals, with a 1.1 Kg set of springs, with the 10 wt. for oil. That should get preload and rebound damping adjustability, with the compression set by the oil viscosity. Any thoughts on this type of conversion, to keep the stock forks with new cartridge internals and springs? Matt does excellent work, and the SV650 guys love his work, along with racers from all over. He did a set of Yamaha R3 forks for a fellow and he really liked the handling of his bike on the track.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2016, 03:04:06 pm »
Woody/Yamahawk, can you give me the shock lengths on the various shocks your discussing?
Add possibly the Spring Diamaters?

Some are talking about using a C-14 (and other) shocks.
If anyone has those numbers can you fill them in?

Reason I'm asking is I'm looking into a way to adjust ride height (after another shock is installed).
  Some folks are a bit short on 1 end and want to keep stock height or lower the bike about 1"-2", "and" go to another shock.
  (And do it on a budget without buying aftermarket)
   Many are looking at used C-14 shocks as their readily available.
I'm looking to see if there is an easy mod that can be done to the stock links.
(My understanding is the Soupy Adjustable links won't work because the shocks are too wide to allow the adjustment).

                  Length          Major Diameter near bottom
C-10           13"                        ??
ZX-9           13 3/4"                  ??
ZZR-1200    ??                         ??
C-14            ??                        ??
other           ??                        ??

NOTE: I have one of Norm Soucy's rockers on my C-10. (Lowered it 2")
          That is an EZ way to adjust but (unfortunately)the rockers are no longer available.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2016, 12:16:43 am »
Yamahawk, at your weight, if you ride solo, I would recommend trying the stock zzr1200 spring. In a previous post, I showed where I took a 1995 ZX9 shock and adapted the remote adjuster from a zzr1200 rear shock with the zzr1200 spring. The spring was just a little soft for me riding solo (I'm 250+) but may be just right for you. I don't know what the zzr spring rate is however.
As far as the combination of parts went, I removed the ZX9 spring, turned the spanners all the way up and locked them. The remote adjuster has a locator tab on the top that keeps it from rotating. I just trimmed a couple of the spanner tabs so that the tab on the remote adjuster would fit. Slide the remote adjuster on then the ZZR1200 spring. The spring has to be compressed slightly to get the lower retainer ring back on. The shock bolts on just like a ZZR1200 shock. I made a bracket to mount the remote preload adjuster on the left side and mounted the shock reservoir where the stock air shock adjuster was on the right side.
I have removed this combination so I can send it off to get it revalved and resprung for my wifes and my weight and expected luggage weight.
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2016, 12:26:08 am »
Ted, I will be at the shop tomorrow and will take some measurements of the hybrid shock. IIRC It's pretty close to the same size as the stock shock. Will let you know.
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2016, 10:59:49 am »
Hi Woody, thanks for the info! I am going to try and do the same with the ZX9 shock, and it sounds like I won't have to buy anything else, just mate up the parts. Does the remote preload adjuster spin the top spanners after you lock them together? Or is there another threaded ring on the preload adjuster? Just curious, as to how it spins and adjusts the preload, I am sure when I get the ZZR1200 shock it will be a little more clear. I have read your previous posts about how it all went together, but hands on will be a little better for me to understand it, I think.
Charlie
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2016, 11:42:08 pm »
I just got off the phone with Norm Soucy.
He thinks he still has about 8 of his 1 1/2" Lowering Rockers in stock.
He said he can make more if there is enough interest, and can make different heights.
   (He now puts new bearings in all Lowering Rockers and sells them for $200)

I told him, that people would be interested in his Lowering Rockers because of installations of C-14 (or other) shocks.

We briefly discussed the use of  Lowering Rockers and Longer shocks.

He estimated that a C-10 (with a C-14 shock {1" longer than stock} and his 1 1/2" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set 1/2" lower than stock.

Based on this;
Shock     Length (eye to eye)
C-10           13"
ZX-9           13 3/4"
ZZR-1200    ??
C-14            14"
other           ??


My guess is; (Someone check my math)
   a C-10 (with a ZX-9 shock (3/4" longer than stock) and his 1 1/2" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set  3/4" lower than stock.
   a C-10 (with a ZX-9 shock (3/4" longer than stock) and his 1 1/4" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set 1/2" lower than stock.
   a C-10 (with a ZX-9 shock (3/4" longer than stock) and his 1" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set  1/4" lower than stock.
   a C-10 (with a ZX-9 shock (3/4" longer than stock) and his 3/4" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set at stock height.
NOTE: Spring stiffness and preload would effect final height.


If this is of interest to anyone let me know, or give him a call.

Here is his up to date info:   sanleonster@gmail.com
                                          phone# (281) 339-1156
Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 12:12:35 am by connie_rider »
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Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2016, 04:18:01 pm »
Woody/Yamahawk, can you give me the shock lengths on the various shocks your discussing?
Add possibly the Spring Diamaters?

Some are talking about using a C-14 (and other) shocks.
If anyone has those numbers can you fill them in?

Reason I'm asking is I'm looking into a way to adjust ride height (after another shock is installed).
  Some folks are a bit short on 1 end and want to keep stock height or lower the bike about 1"-2", "and" go to another shock.
  (And do it on a budget without buying aftermarket)
   Many are looking at used C-14 shocks as their readily available.
I'm looking to see if there is an easy mod that can be done to the stock links.
(My understanding is the Soupy Adjustable links won't work because the shocks are too wide to allow the adjustment).

                  Length          Major Diameter near bottom
C-10           13"                        ??
ZX-9           13 3/4"                  ??
ZZR-1200    ??                         ??
C-14            ??                        ??
other           ??                        ??

NOTE: I have one of Norm Soucy's rockers on my C-10. (Lowered it 2")
          That is an EZ way to adjust but (unfortunately)the rockers are no longer available.

Ride safe, Ted

Ted, the one without the spring is the ZZR1200, it is 13.25" - The ZX9 is 13.75", the tube diameter is 1.75" or 44.25mm.
Charlie
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 07:57:21 pm by Yamahawk »
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2016, 05:55:07 pm »
Thanks.
Here is all the info...

Shock     Length (eye to eye)
C-10           13"
ZX-9           13 3/4"
ZZR-1200    13 1/4"
C-14            14"
other           ??

From what I see, all in red would need a Lowering Link or a Lowering Rocker to adjust the height to match a stock C-10 shock?

NOTE: I see that some notes mentioned softening the suspension to match the height, but I wonder if that would cause other
          problems?

Ride safe, Ted

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Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #70 on: October 19, 2016, 10:37:09 am »
Well, I got the hybrid ZX9/ZZR1200 shock installed monday, and I have had a couple days to adjust it and get it close to where it should be... and here's what I think!
It is better than the stock shock, and rides at about the same height as the stocker, which means it is running out of travel sooner, as it is 3/4" longer than stock. I believe the spring really does need to be replaced with one of a higher spring rate, as it is sagging from the bike's weight, although it does lean a little more on the side stand. I think seat of the pants measurement would put it at about 1/4-1/2" higher than the stock shock, without my added weight, and that is with the preload adjuster set on about 4, and the compression damping on 5 turns out from full in, and the rebound also on 3. At these settings, it only feels like it is bottoming on hard bumps, like chuck holes. I believe that is because it has ran out of travel. Other than that, I think it is a great upgrade for the rear. Now, I will look into the front end... and GSXR600 cartridge installs.

Charlie
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2016, 02:19:39 pm »
Woody/Yamahawk, I'm a rookie at this, and I'm trying to follow your reasoning.
I have in mind installing a different rear shock on mine. (C-14 shock)

From what I'm reading on Yamahawks set up; your using a 3/4" longer shock, with a softer spring, and adjusted the preload to adjust ride height? 
Doesn't this indicate that your using a lot of sag to set ride height? 
If so, I agree; your either bottoming out the shock travel or have spring bind/stack that is preventing all the shock travel on hard bumps.
and, I think this means your using about 1/2 of the shocks travel while riding. (The lower half)

Wouldn't it be better to use the original/stiffer spring and add a Lowering rocker or lowering link to set your ride height?
this would allow use of all of the original shocks travel, not just the lower half.
I think more useful shock travel would mean a better ride as stopping the wheel travel would not be as abrupt?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline txfatboy

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #72 on: October 20, 2016, 02:03:53 am »
Ted, my reasoning for trying this combo in the first place was just that, see if the combination of parts will work together AND bolt onto the bike. It is a way to get a multi-adjustable rear shock that can be rebuilt, revalved, and resprung for far less money than an aftermarket shock with the same features. I never expected any of the combination to work as is on the Concours. The ZX9 rear rocker ratio is way different from the Concours. The ZZR spring is too soft for my 250+ and wife's more than 150+ and gear, and luggage weight. I just wanted to know if the parts went together and it bolted onto the bike. YES........ I now have a stock air shock back on so I can send the hybrid shock to be configured to fit my needs. THEN I expect it to be a great multi-adjustable rear shock for the money.
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2016, 02:21:32 am »
I agree with that Woody. Great idea...

But, If the shock is longer, you have to lower the bike somehow..
My question is aimed at the addition of a lowering Link or Rocker to set the height,
    instead of softening the preload on the spring.

Am I missing something?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2016, 12:06:19 pm »
Woody/Yamahawk, I'm a rookie at this, and I'm trying to follow your reasoning.
I have in mind installing a different rear shock on mine. (C-14 shock)
I think you will find that there is no stock shock from another bike which will work adequately without being re-valved/re-sprung, or in the case of the C14 shock, combined with a way to lower it back to the right ride height. Due to the ratio of the rocker, it may be anywhere from 2-4 times the difference in shock length to ride height ( 3/4" longer shock may be 1 1/2" to 3" depending on rocker ratio)

From what I'm reading on Yamahawks set up; your using a 3/4" longer shock, with a softer spring, and adjusted the preload to adjust ride height? 
Doesn't this indicate that your using a lot of sag to set ride height? 
Yes, Ted it worked out that way, necessarily, as I am experimenting with this hybrid initially to see what is needed to correct the deficiencies inherent in the combination of parts. I liked what Woody was doing with the adjustability of the different components, and will pull this shock soon and send it to Jamie Daugherty for him to re-spring and re-valve the shock for the correct weight of my bike and riding style. EDIT: Just talked to Jamie Daugherty, and he stated that he could adjust the length of the shock internally, so a lowering rocker/dog bones wouldn't be necessary. They change the geometry of the bike, and it ride also, which is always a negative.

If so, I agree; your either bottoming out the shock travel or have spring bind/stack that is preventing all the shock travel on hard bumps.
and, I think this means your using about 1/2 of the shocks travel while riding. (The lower half)
Absolutely! Which is my initial impression of the combo. Currently, I have a Mean Streak rear wheel with a 170/60-17 Conti Motion on it, and that has lowered the ride height by about 1/2" or more. When I get the shock sorted, it may or may not need the lowering rocker, as I am going to redo the front end also with GSXR600 cartridges and springs (1.1Kg.) I will know what might be needed as per lowering rocker, dog bones, etc. at that time.

Wouldn't it be better to use the original/stiffer spring and add a Lowering rocker or lowering link to set your ride height?
The Original spring from the Concours shock isn't an option... and the original spring from the ZX9 shock is way too light, the original spring from the ZZR1200 appears to be too light also but it is stiffer than the ZX9, as it has a lot of travel, just rocking the bike on the side stand makes it pogo up and down rather easily. So, the stiffer spring looks like the appropriate option.

this would allow use of all of the original shocks travel, not just the lower half.
I think more useful shock travel would mean a better ride as stopping the wheel travel would not be as abrupt?
YupYupYup

Ride safe, Ted

So, in essence, we will have a great shock eventually, which will allow a good ride, great adjustability, and far cheaper than an Ohlins or comparable performance aftermarket shock.
Charlie
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 12:34:49 pm by Yamahawk »
All Things work together for good, for those who Love God, and are the Called according to His Purpose. - Romans 8:28

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph...
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