Author Topic: Anybody ever had a fuseblock brand panel go bad?  (Read 928 times)

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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Anybody ever had a fuseblock brand panel go bad?
« on: May 11, 2013, 08:01:39 am »
    As the title says, anyone have a fuseblock brand accessory panel go bad? I can't remember hearing of one. But I recently did. There wound up being a short in the unit. It popped the fuse of the switching circuit on the bike. It threw me off for a little bit becuase I didn't realise that  more than one of the accessories were not working. So I didn't think about the fuseblock itself at first.
   It's when I didn't find a blown fuse anywhere with the involved circuit and started looking closer. Well that's when I realised that more than one accessory was not working. What really threw me a curve was that the Zumo was working but the other "hot" circuits were not.  But that's when it occurred to me that the Zumo was running on internal battery.  :-[
   Anyway, after a couple of switching fuse replacements troubleshooting it. It wound up being the fuse block itself and not the bike. Go figure. It was kind of weird that it did not pop the main power fuse, but the hot devices still do not work. But it will pop the switching fuse on the bike. I'm thinking what ever went bad opened the hot circuit, and at the same time, created a short connected to the relay coil (switching circuit). But again, no visible signs major melt down or such.
 The lucky part of this. Well I just happened to have a spare brand new Fuse block sitting on the shelf that I never used. So I did a swap and all is good again. No waiting for a new unit to come in. I need to sit down and play with the unit to see where the problems(s) is/are. A quick look didn't show anything that visually stood out.
   Anyway, I do not recall hearing of one of the fuseblock brand panels going bad (internal shorting) like this. So I figured I would ask if anyone else has heard of one going bad. Or is it yet another one of the weird electrical anomalies that seem to be my curse!  :))

Offline S Smith

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Re: Anybody ever had a fuseblock brand panel go bad?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2013, 09:11:28 am »
These units are are fairly simple as a circuit goes. The only electrical devices in it are the PCB itself, relay and fuses.  When you say "it popped the switching circuit" do you mean a fuse in the box that can be selected to provide switched or constant power, OR a fuse that comes from the ACC to energize the Fusebox relay?

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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: Anybody ever had a fuseblock brand panel go bad?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2013, 11:58:04 am »
"It popped the fuse of the switching circuit on the bike."



Meaning the Circuit on the bike that switches the relay on and off on the added fuse block. Yes I understand that it is pretty simple circuitry on the fuseblock.

The printed board does a good job of insulating and hiding the circuit traces. So unless it has a catastrophic failure, seeing damage is pretty much impossible. I'm guessing that something went bad under, or internally in the relay. It's the only place that I can surmise (or see) that would have +12, +VT, and GND all in one area besides the actual power wiring lugs.
   I am curious why it doesn't blow the main power fuse though. I'm guessing that it only has an open on the hot main power. But the switched +VT (12 volt trigger) must be shorted to ground. Thus is blows the fuse on the bikes triggering circuit. Since I can't see the traces or have the actual schematic for the units design, it's hard to say exactly what Diodes D1+D2 play.  Great, now I have to go get a meter and find the bad fuse block and play with it.  :))

Offline S Smith

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Re: Anybody ever had a fuseblock brand panel go bad?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2013, 12:08:56 pm »
My guess is that these are protection diodes, installed across the relay coil.  This is to protect the device that is switching the relay coil. A large reverse voltage is generate by the collapse of the magnetic field when the voltage is removed.

There are any number of things that could have gone wrong.  The typical suspects include a bad relay or diodes or a short in the wiring somewhere - most likely at the terminal blocks where the wires clamp down to the circuit board.

Use a good methodical approach and you will find it.  Good luck.
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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: Anybody ever had a fuseblock brand panel go bad?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2013, 12:47:45 pm »
 Well as I figured. There isn't any troubleshooting of this without removing devices from the circuit. As expected, there is continuity between everything except the switched main 12v power through the relay contacts. Which would go along the lines of Steve's theory. That of course makes sense and I can think of no other reason for the diodes. But  I would expect that one diode would do the job. There would be no need for two protection diodes. Well unless they double up for extra protection. But if not, thus my question on what they are for. One for sure as Steve has explained. But the second? Maybe for directional flow? Who's to say. Although because of the readings that I am seeing, I might be inclined to think they used two for protection.
  Oh well. It really isn't that big of deal anyway. As I said, I already have another working unit in service on the bike. Maybe I'll play with it later when I have time to fire up the soldiering iron. For now I gotta start thinking meet & greet for the NE. Gotta leave shortly.

Offline S Smith

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Re: Anybody ever had a fuseblock brand panel go bad?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2013, 01:15:57 pm »
Here is a demonstrations of using more than one protection diode. The second diode is a zener that will quicken the dissipation of energy from the coil.



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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: Anybody ever had a fuseblock brand panel go bad?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2013, 07:21:10 pm »
 IMO, Overkill for a simple relay application. I would not expect needing a zener for a simple relay coil. A simple relay coil would not require such extreme protection. Other more sensitive circuitry, yes. But not a simple relay coil. Of course I could be wrong since obviously something went very wrong with my FZ1. So when you think about it, maybe it's not enough.  :))