Author Topic: Med Kits  (Read 214 times)

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Offline ghostrider990

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Med Kits
« on: December 12, 2018, 01:53:06 pm »
Of the things that i carry with me on all rides (tire repair kit / jumpers / tool kit) I've been thinking that I really should be carrying an Emergency Med Kit.

A quick look on Revzilla, says that $50 is the average going rate for a moderately equipped packable kit.
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/amk-tactical-field-trauma-with-quikclot

This sort of begs the question of: If a crash happens, or I happen UPON one -- will I find the kit useful, and/or necessary in a particular situation??
Just how qualified do I need to be in order to apply a tourniquet / coagulant powders to stop bleeding / splints / or bandages???

I have never taken a first aid course, and I haven't re-certified for resuscitation in decades.  In a lifetime of riding, I have only crashed once (thus far) and only broke bones (ATTGATT) in that accident.
And I have been fortunate to never have witnessed or been witness to another motorcycle accident.

To me, one of the MOST important pieces of first aid kit to carry with anyone, is a solar blanket.  The occurrence of SHOCK in a motorcycle crash is probably the #1 issue that most riders will encounter in an accident/injury situation.  Cheap, small, and packable -- everyone should carry one in their gear.  And yes, I do.  :great:

Are there motorcycle specific first Aid courses available that one can participate in through the AMA, or other sources??  (helmet removal / neck and spine injuries)??
I don't want to achieve"first responder" status, but I would like to know when to help, and when to step back and let the pro's work.

Kind of a curious double topic, that I'd like to discuss.

Please share your experiences and thoughts. 

gr
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 02:00:36 pm by ghostrider990 »
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Offline Shawn

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2018, 02:10:30 pm »
Great post Nate...been thinkin the same thing myself.  Curious to see some responses.  One change I made a while back (nothing to do with med kits, but all to do with preparedness) is to carry my phone in a secure exterior jacket pocket, as opposed to the ram mount.  Going off the road solo and getting separated from the bike doesn't do ya much good if ya ain't got your phone. :-[   
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Offline RWulf

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 02:50:22 pm »
Follow the rules of basic first aid. You can find some instruction thru the "Red Cross" and
some community colleges. Yes there are "First on the Scene" programs offered by some
Harley clubs.
This would be a good seminar for the Nationals, if anyone would attend.

Offline Bud

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 03:10:45 pm »
Great post Nate...been thinkin the same thing myself.  Curious to see some responses.  One change I made a while back (nothing to do with med kits, but all to do with preparedness) is to carry my phone in a secure exterior jacket pocket, as opposed to the ram mount.  Going off the road solo and getting separated from the bike doesn't do ya much good if ya ain't got your phone. :-[
+1000

Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2018, 03:21:21 pm »
Follow the rules of basic first aid. You can find some instruction thru the "Red Cross" and
some community colleges. Yes there are "First on the Scene" programs offered by some
Harley clubs.
This would be a good seminar for the Nationals, if anyone would attend.

I would personally attend that one.....the Med Seminar. 
Already thinking about the National!

Maybe a good idea for giveaways would BE some decent med kits???  Any mods out there listening??  :beerchug:
..."I like to keep this handy -- for Close Encounters"...

Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 03:22:43 pm »
Great post Nate...been thinkin the same thing myself.  Curious to see some responses.  One change I made a while back (nothing to do with med kits, but all to do with preparedness) is to carry my phone in a secure exterior jacket pocket, as opposed to the ram mount.  Going off the road solo and getting separated from the bike doesn't do ya much good if ya ain't got your phone. :-[
+1000

+2000  :great:
..."I like to keep this handy -- for Close Encounters"...

Offline Gumby

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 03:35:57 pm »
I carry a good size med kit in my truck and a smaller one on the bike, both have come in handy.

Med seminar at the National is a great idea. Did you hear that Jason and Steve? :great:

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 07:27:08 pm »
There are a couple sources for M/C specific "generic med kits", Rider Warehouse and Aerostich come to mind; I have 2 and always carry at least one on the bike. But, it is "generic", and in most instances of aa crash, or emergency, the most important thing for an Untrained responder, is to call 911 for proper help... this will alert the proper quality of response, and also LEO participation, as fast as possible to the scene. They are qqualified much more than a bystander, and have radio communications to provide traffic control, and response teams as needed. Most also carry a much more extensive supply of emergency med needs, like dressings, gauze, water, and sterile kits for blood bourne pathogen use.

the MOST important thing... is CALL 911....
STAY ON THE LINE, BE PREPARED TO GIVE CORRECT LOCATION OF INCIDENT, AND IF POSSIBLE EVERYTHING THEY ASK FOR.... REMAIN ON THE LINE, HAVE SOMEONE ELSE ASSIST ALSO, 2 PEOPLE ARE BETTER THAN ONE...more people may assist in controlling the "environment/traffic/conditions, etc.,


I was a "first responder" for many years at my job in Richmond, and kept my qualifications and certs up to date untill 2 years ago; It's not something to be taken on lightly during an emergency. My training in CPR, Immobilization, response, and AED use was a pretty in depth and lengthy course, 5 full days of training the company covered for costs.. iirc we actually had 16 people qualified in my last class for the company.

I'll contact my local Red Cross, and inquire, but I know that even though it sounds like a great idea for holding a seminar at the Nat's, the amount of time just to cover CPR, or a "stumbled upon" person needing help, is a 2 day commitment. I personally don't think the most minimal light training on immobilizing, assessing the situation, and safely making the victim stable and comfortable, could be accomplished in the time slot allotted. Then, if you do decide to be involved during a catastrophic injury victims "care", on scene, open a pandora's box of liabilities ( I realize that is not the concern, but is is the fact.).

I do highly suggest a good med kit, but likely the extent of its contents should be simple dressings, tape, antiseptic, and things to treat a skinned knee, or splinter, as attempting to move, relocate a broken limb, remove a helmet, remove items of protective clothing, or simply handle someone with a traumatic injury, be best left to a professional.

Good cell phone, fully charged, and keep emergency info on your person in a manner it can be found immediately by a first responder, are the best advice.

if you are going to get or make a "kit", these are what you really need...

http://www.rgcompound.com/Custom-Trauma-Packs_c_23.html

http://www.rgcompound.com/First-Aid-Trauma-Products_c_9.html

also, maybe this would be the place to find a source for "training"...
if a one day session is the thought.

Cost is between $1500 (1 day basic) to $2500 (2 day advanced), for 20 attendees.

https://roadguardians.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Host-a-Class.pdf?x74424

https://roadguardians.org/host-a-class/

https://roadguardians.org/a-motorcycle-first-aid-kit-has-special-needs/


« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 10:15:07 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 01:04:08 pm »
Wow.  That was an eyefull of info.  :great:

Thanks MOB.

Truthfully, the LIABILITY is what I worry about most of all these days.  It is REAL, and the advice to let the pro's handle the scene is really the best one.

Imagine coming upon a crash victim, and accidentally moving them and causing a permanent spinal issue.  :-\
Bad for BOTH of you.

I'm already hearing the silent "grumbling" amongst the COG party planners when contemplating the liability of even the most simple First Aid course.  Yep -- I understand.

Nevertheless, this is good dialogue, and great input.   :great:

MOB: no mention of Solar Blankets for shock mitigation??  Is that too "active" of a measure for a non-trained first responder? 
Comes in handy for cold days, running out of gas, or getting stranded at elevation too!  :rotflmao:

gr
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Offline n3nman

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 02:03:39 pm »
I carry this. Good size, has a good amount of stuff related to what i thought would be needed. Resonabl price as well.

Small First Aid Kit for Hiking, Backpacking, Camping, Travel, Car & Cycling. With Waterproof Laminate Bags You Protect Your Supplies! Be Prepared For All Outdoor Adventures or at Home & Work https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HGSLB6K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ipNeCbQDXV18V

Offline Bumblebee

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 03:27:34 pm »
Thanks MOB.  Food for thought. 

BTW, I have taken these courses that you've mentioned through the Red Cross and St-Johns and they were, in fact, two to five day endeavors, which would be difficult to offer at a National (the very first of which I'm looking forward to attending this summer!).     

Offline RWulf

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 03:42:12 pm »
For those of you who do carry a first aid kit, open them up, read the the information
inside. This way you will have some idea of what you have to work with.
And for those of you who are worried about " liability" don't even stop, for that matter
don't even look. You could be held liable!

Offline Sailor_chic

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 07:35:49 pm »
Wow.  That was an eyefull of info.  :great:

Thanks MOB.

Truthfully, the LIABILITY is what I worry about most of all these days.  It is REAL, and the advice to let the pro's handle the scene is really the best one.

Imagine coming upon a crash victim, and accidentally moving them and causing a permanent spinal issue.  :-\
Bad for BOTH of you.

I'm already hearing the silent "grumbling" amongst the COG party planners when contemplating the liability of even the most simple First Aid course.  Yep -- I understand.

Nevertheless, this is good dialogue, and great input.   :great:

MOB: no mention of Solar Blankets for shock mitigation??  Is that too "active" of a measure for a non-trained first responder? 
Comes in handy for cold days, running out of gas, or getting stranded at elevation too!  :rotflmao:

gr

Nate, There are laws to protect the unprofessional first responder. It is actually called the Good Samaritan Law. I hate to copy and past, but I am going to do it in this case since Wiki says it so much better.

"Good Samaritan laws offer legal protection to people who give reasonable assistance to those who are, or who they believe to be, injured, ill, in peril, or otherwise incapacitated. ... By contrast, a duty to rescue law requires people to offer assistance and holds those who fail to do so liable."
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Offline Shawn

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 07:52:40 pm »
Wow.  That was an eyefull of info.  :great:

Thanks MOB.

Truthfully, the LIABILITY is what I worry about most of all these days.  It is REAL, and the advice to let the pro's handle the scene is really the best one.

Imagine coming upon a crash victim, and accidentally moving them and causing a permanent spinal issue.  :-\
Bad for BOTH of you.

I'm already hearing the silent "grumbling" amongst the COG party planners when contemplating the liability of even the most simple First Aid course.  Yep -- I understand.

Nevertheless, this is good dialogue, and great input.   :great:

MOB: no mention of Solar Blankets for shock mitigation??  Is that too "active" of a measure for a non-trained first responder? 
Comes in handy for cold days, running out of gas, or getting stranded at elevation too!  :rotflmao:

gr

Nate, There are laws to protect the unprofessional first responder. It is actually called the Good Samaritan Law. I hate to copy and past, but I am going to do it in this case since Wiki says it so much better.

"Good Samaritan laws offer legal protection to people who give reasonable assistance to those who are, or who they believe to be, injured, ill, in peril, or otherwise incapacitated. ... By contrast, a duty to rescue law requires people to offer assistance and holds those who fail to do so liable."

A little sense and sensibility - thanks Nicole. :)

Was curious about duty to rescue statues...

In the common law of most English-speaking countries, there is no general duty to come to the rescue of another.[1] Generally, a person cannot be held liable for doing nothing while another person is in peril.[2][3] However, such a duty may arise in two situations:

A duty to rescue arises where a person creates a hazardous situation. If another person then falls into peril because of this hazardous situation, the creator of the hazard – who may not necessarily have been a negligent tortfeasor – has a duty to rescue the individual in peril.[4]

Such a duty may also arise where a "special relationship" exists. For example:

Parents have a duty to rescue their minor children. This duty also applies to those acting in loco parentis, such as schools or babysitters.[5]

Common carriers have a duty to rescue their patrons.[6]

Employers have an obligation to rescue employees, under an implied contract theory.[7]

In some U.S. jurisdictions, real property owners have a duty to rescue invitees but not trespassers from all reasonably foreseeable dangers on the property. Other jurisdictions, such as California, extend the duty to rescue to all persons who enter upon real property regardless whether they are classified as invitees, social guests or trespassers.[8]

Spouses have a duty to rescue each other in all U.S. jurisdictions.[9]

In the United States, as of 2009 ten states had laws on the books requiring that people at least notify law enforcement of and/or seek aid for strangers in peril under certain conditions: California,[10][11] Florida,[10][12][13] Hawaii,[10][14] Massachusetts,[10][15] Minnesota,[10][16] Ohio,[10][17] Rhode Island,[10][18] Vermont,[10][19] Washington,[10][20][21] and Wisconsin.[10][22] These laws are also referred to as Good Samaritan laws, despite their difference from laws of the same name that protect individuals who try to help another person.[1] These laws are rarely applied, and are generally ignored by citizens and lawmakers.[1]
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Med Kits
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 08:10:51 pm »
For those of you who do carry a first aid kit, open them up, read the the information
inside. This way you will have some idea of what you have to work with.
And for those of you who are worried about " liability" don't even stop, for that matter
don't even look. You could be held liable!

while I do agree about addressing all the items in your "kit", and adding a lot of other pertinant ones, especially the emergency shears, and strap cutters, along with some seriously large "wound pads/dressings", I will say I don't agree with the "liability mentality/don't stop" commentary. I find that a bit outside of what i was trying to make a point on.

Stopping, and assessing, and making a decision on your actions and outcome, and CALLING 911.... is something I can not say dispense with. To say that would, would be very disconcerting.

Anyone that has gone thru even the basic Red Cross training understands those steps.
If a person makes the decision to assist, it must be with full understanding, and once you begin, better be right in your head, and willing to continue until you are relieved by EMS.
I've witnessed in shape, grown men, totally give out doing CPR on a dummy in 10 minutes, so consider having to continue that for 20, even 30 minutes... I know how hard it becomes. If you have any doubts, or wise comments, I suggest you get down on all 4's, and do 30 "chest compression's" on the hard floor,  while kneeling, then try to breath into your fist 3 times, and begin repeating chest compression drill. If you make it a full 10 minutes, no time outs, you are lucky.. now do it as long as it takes you to get to the point of "willingly quitting" from exhaustion; you will be surprised.
Red Cross training, in their courses, make no light comments about the decision to provide, or not to provide physical assistance; if the victim is responsive verbally, you must ask them if they want you to assist... if they say yes, or if they are unconscious, and in peril, it's all up to you. There is NO responsibility upon anyone, to assist under those circumstances, trained or untrained.


MOB: no mention of Solar Blankets for shock mitigation??  Is that too "active" of a measure for a non-trained first responder? 
Comes in handy for cold days, running out of gas, or getting stranded at elevation too!  :rotflmao:

gr

sorry, yes I do highly recommend having at least one, but 3 is an even more realistic number, as you don't know just how many people, or how large they may be, or what position they are in, when they are called upon. As M/C riders, we ride in warmer climates and weather, normally; and do tend to understand about riding gear, and most people wear enough to negate the need for the space blankets, unless the clothing is removed for some reason. But yes, they are in most med paks today.

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