Author Topic: cruse controll  (Read 6992 times)

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Offline rick

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cruse controll
« on: August 14, 2012, 01:32:12 pm »
has anybody installed a audivox c.c. on their c14?

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 01:50:14 pm »
Yes, but I like the Rostra better.
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2012, 03:52:30 pm »
I like my Rostra more than any other farkle. Its been on now since before the National. So it made the trip there and back better.

I have run it in the pouring down rain, the kind of rain which caused my Denali D2 LED lights to come on and stay on (dried out and returned to proper function), and it functioned perfectly.

A couple of suggestions. Go to Murph's site and look at the page for both types, I'm sure Murph has how-to docs posted for both. Then you can better make up your mind.

Also, if you do a Rostra, install it on the right side laying on the ram air tunnel (search here, Fred posted pics about it I think) and get the -92 version of the switch (that mounts on your switch pod) which has the Engaged light. Also get it from Murph (to help out one of our favorite industry members) and ask for the extra relay which you will need to wire up front to toggle the engaged light.

Brian's how-to at Murphs has everything you need to know to install it. Seriously, read it at least 5 times before you even open the box.  Also at Murph's site on the Rostra page is a doc for 2010+ bikes, and its worth downloading and reading. This guy calls out the wire to tap up front in the boot (left side) to run the toggle for the engaged light from. It is one color on the "bottom" connector and another on the "top" connector.

Also, buy the switch cover from Murph, its made of urethane so you can see the buttons / lights, but it 100% waterproofs the switch (if you put silicon sealant on the bottom where the wires come out) and works great. I got 3, eventually they wear out. Maybe my first one will wear out in a few years. For what they cost, its a no brainer.

Murph also sells a piece of aluminum to mount on the switch pod on which you can silicon glue the switch. My suggestion is before you install it (it comes with a longer screw) you cross-hatch the bottom of the round nub that makes it stand up off the switch pod 1/4" or so, and then put silicon adhesive on the cross-hatching before you bolt it down. Otherwise it will turn and your switch will get all out of position. I don't think its a good idea to tighten the bolt down all that hard into plastic threads, so doing this keeps you from having too.

Some put the switch on the left side to make it easier to use, but I manage it find on the right side, just took getting used to. Besides, I have all my GPS and junk over there, don't need more.  :beerchug:
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Offline DC

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 04:04:30 pm »
Yes, I have a 2008 with just over 50,000 km (32,000 miles).

We (my son and I) installed the Audiocox when the bike was new. My son worked as an installer of electronic equipment on cars and trucks. It still took us about 8 hours.
The instructions are available online: http://murpskits.com/catalog/docs/c14cc-install.htm In my humble opinion; one requires some expertise working with wiring and vacuum lines in order to do a good and proper install. 

The unit works with vacuum rather than working electronically, so it does not function like the cruise on modern cars and trucks. Example; lets say that I want to set it on 60 mph, if I'm travelling along at 60 and press the set button I must allow the bike to slow to about 55 before I feel the cruise take over. One must keep the RPM up. It will hold 60 provided it is in 5th gear, if it is in 6th, the cruise is not strong enough. I can however set the cruise at 75 in 6th gear. 

Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 04:11:50 pm »
This may be why the Rosta mechanical is so popular here.

Mine will cruise in any gear at any speed appropriate to the gear. I have used it in 3rd gear just to see if it would work. It does. I have set it in 6th gear at 90mph and it works.

When you set it, the set is nearly instant. On my car, I set it, and unless I set it on a specific increasing speed rate (acceleration) it will drone down 10mph under the set before picking the set up. The Rostra is nearly instant.

By the way, my car is a 1999 and has a 1999 cruise control, which is indeed vacuum actuated.

Also, if I set my bike to 55mph in 6th gear (that is hovering around 3,000 rpm, as low as I want it to be cruising) it will pull hills and maintain just fine.
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 04:20:19 pm »
Cruise is a must have IMHO if you do LD riding,  yes you CAN do it without Cruise, but it's so much nicer with it...


However, I personally am not a fan of either the Rostra OR Audiovox,  they are both Car units that are adapted for motorcycle use and they both use some form of cable or chain to "Pull" the throttle,  my fear is if it binds up it can stick the throttle open which in MY mid is dangerous.   

Now it should be said there are tons of these units working without a problem, and if it's installed properly the chances of this happening are slim, but for me it was just too great.

I went with the McCruise unit,  it's expensive (INSANELY so) but it's a VERY well designed unit,  pretty much plug and play and with their interface design it's almost impossible for the throttle to bind up....

Just my 0.02
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 05:17:48 pm »
Isn't the McCruise unit also vacuum controlled like the Audiovox?
Fred H.


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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2012, 05:20:28 pm »
However, I personally am not a fan of either the Rostra OR Audiovox,  they are both Car units that are adapted for motorcycle use and they both use some form of cable or chain to "Pull" the throttle,  my fear is if it binds up it can stick the throttle open which in MY mid is dangerous.   

I don't think anyone can dispute that, Marc. Both Fred and I used a short length of the bead chain (I used like 3/8" of it) where it attaches to the idler arm specifically to lessen the chance of a hang up. But it would still happen.

But since I have never seen a documented story (or even a spurious story) of a Rostra jamming the throttle open, I figure its less likely than, for instance, a member crashing their bike and totalling it, and putting themselves in the hospital. Which we knows happens for sure.

So I personally don't worry about it. If the bike suddenly speeds up, I'll pull the clutch in. She doesn't accelerate that strong when in cruise mode anyway, she is not a sportbike after all. Plenty of time to shut her down.

Once I had the throttle stick because the cable got pinched on my second track bike. It was stupid, when I put the tank back on after pulling the head off, I didn't position the throttle cable right. It decided not to let me roll off the throttle on the entry to a turn. So I pulled in the cluth and killed the engine and rolled out into the pea gravel and bounced lightly off the hay bales.

So I don't think my Connie is going to kill me or wreck me even if the most unlikely of events happens, and the idler arm hangs up.

I check mine every once in a while, just to make sure the little bolt isn't backing out. I put it in pretty good though, with surface-insensitive blue locktite on double nuts, so I don't think its going to move. But I'll keep checking it before every trip.
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2012, 05:22:38 pm »
Isn't the McCruise unit also vacuum controlled like the Audiovox?

The McCruise is a re-packaged AudioVox CC with the wiring done for you and with plug-n-play connectors which make it trivial to connect. McCruise costs so much, in part, because they do most of your wiring work for you in advance, and have all the right brackets for your application.

I almost got one for my ZX14, glad I didn't spend the money.
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Offline DualSport

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2012, 05:26:08 pm »
My first bike was used, and it already had o-rings wedged in the throttle gaps, so that's how I learned to control a throttle - right or wrong. 6 bikes later, its all I've ever known. Been told many times it's going to kill me, but again, my wrist just as instinctively throttles up as intuitively as it throttles down. Package of various o-rings at AutoZone is about $7.
Recently, I removed the o-rings on my KLR650's throttle, and about five blocks away, I had to turn around and put them back in, as I was completely not used to the throttle return, and for me, unexpected deceleration.
This June I rode from Tulsa to San Diego and back and then I immediately rode to Austin and back, all in one week's time. Not to start any explosive commentary, but it works well for me and I've trekked hundreds of thousands of miles without any problems at all, both on and off road---to include the LA-Barstow-to Vegas dualsport event several times. I've always installed them so that the throttle friction is just strong enough to hold any speed long enough to rest my hand a bit.
The only time I really thought about it was when I watched a mechanic performing a test ride pull out on my bike. When he returned, he said he noticed it and was used to it as he'd seen it several times before. Since then, I've forewarned the numerous mech's that have test-ridden my bikes after service and none of them have requested I remove the o-rings before the test ride, and none seemed to mind or be troubled by the setup. 
This post is not intended to be a recommendation, as I'm just say'n... :motonoises:
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2012, 05:28:44 pm »
O-rings and some simple devices will indeed work.

Let me ask you, though, how are they working for you when the road has hills and valleys it goes over?
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 05:51:41 pm »
A ridding buddy who was using a throttle lock almost ran over me when I had to stop real fast for some deer, and he was unable to release his throttle lock fast enough. He had plenty of room to stop, but in the heat of the moment the throttle lock flustered him and ate up valuable seconds when the engine over-reved when he pulled in the clutch. It just about resulted in both of us getting taken out. I'll never use a throttle lock again as a result.
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Offline DualSport

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 06:17:49 pm »
A ridding buddy who was using a throttle lock almost ran over me when I had to stop real fast for some deer, and he was unable to release his throttle lock fast enough. He had plenty of room to stop, but in the heat of the moment the throttle lock flustered him and ate up valuable seconds when the engine over-reved when he pulled in the clutch. It just about resulted in both of us getting taken out. I'll never use a throttle lock again as a result.
Not having a throttle lock to contend with, I intuitively throttle down. Additionally, I know of no setup that cannot be manually throttled down as if it never was even installed. However, I too have witnessed what you speak of. I attribute it to rider complacency, which is something that is extremely dangerous in many varying situations. 
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2012, 06:28:35 pm »
Isn't the McCruise unit also vacuum controlled like the Audiovox?

The McCruise is a re-packaged AudioVox CC with the wiring done for you and with plug-n-play connectors which make it trivial to connect. McCruise costs so much, in part, because they do most of your wiring work for you in advance, and have all the right brackets for your application.

I almost got one for my ZX14, glad I didn't spend the money.

Um, no it isn't a repackaged audiovox, yes it is a vacumn actuated unit just like the audiovox, and it is possible it uses the same commercially available servo, but that's where the similarities end.  The ECU unit is one that McCruise has designed and programmed from the ground up to work for Motorcycles. it has all the proper inputs (Clutch, Front/rear brake tach, VSS etc) and yes the harness are plug and play and all neat and easy... No cutting, no splicing, no soldering, just follow the instructions (Which are superb)

However the biggest difference between the McCruise and Av/Rostra is that they do NOT use any form of chain to pull the throttle.  They have you remove the throttle openign cable from the TB, then install a short cable in it's place.. Then the short cable, the original cable and the actuator cable all meet up in this hocky puck looking thingy called a Cable Interface Unit,   basically it's 2 counter rotating spools that keep each cable captive in a guide so they cannot jump and bind and allows everything to move freely...  Really a slick little unit.

Is it expensive?  Oh yeah, it's quite expensive.   but in my mind it's worth it.  I had one on the FJR and now one on the 14 and love it.     

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Offline DualSport

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 06:35:24 pm »
O-rings and some simple devices will indeed work.

Let me ask you, though, how are they working for you when the road has hills and valleys it goes over?
Extremely well as I've never really thought about it. You'd think it would bog down, or go too fast downhill, but it doesn't. I'll have to pay more attention, but I think I just naturally set throttle as I enter each situation. Additionally, as an enduro rider, I've certainly been on my side a few times. You'd think that the throttle would race away when you come off the bike, but it never has. You'd also think that application of the clutch would be a problem, but it just hasn't been the case for me. When riding with others, I notice I'm smoother in my control than normal and I have pondered on that, ultimately giving credit to the o-rings.
Lastly, you get hit by objects when riding, and in OK, boy do we have some big flying bugs. When I get hit, or when my phone rings, I can utilize either hand to deal with the situation without rapid throttle deceleration, or clutch application deceleration causing additional problems.
I also fly and many single-engine aircraft have throttle friction locks. Same concept, and no problems their either. I love to ride off road on the KLR650, and the Connie and I love to get our lean-on in the twisties, and still no problem.
I would find a remote and open area and experience it a bit before giving it a try --- several times, and under varying conditions --- before someone jumps into the practice. As previously stated, right or wrong, it has been all I've ever known and the only thing I'm comfortable with. I've had others criticize the practice and then convert, with one particular time being a long group ride. A fellow rider's cruise was inop. and it was ruining his good time. I carry a vary large thin spare o-ring draped over my brake reservoir as a spare. It has only come in handy when I ride someone else's bike. He was initially very skeptical and now that's all he uses for indirect throttle control.
Anyone that's noticed my o-rings, or see me apply them, has been very skeptical initially, with some even down-rite condemning of the practice.  Conversely though, nobody that's ever ridden my bikes have failed to not be pleasantly surprised, and again, there have been some converts. I know of one professional rider/MC dealership owner that utilizes o-rings also. When he noticed mine, it led to a pleasant and interesting conversation, as he has much more saddle time and under more diverse conditions than I have experienced, and he too has a problem when he rides a bike without the o-rings installed.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 06:38:25 pm by DualSport »
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Offline Unclesteve

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2012, 07:05:53 pm »
Yes, I have a 2008 with just over 50,000 km (32,000 miles).

We (my son and I) installed the Audiocox when the bike was new. My son worked as an installer of electronic equipment on cars and trucks. It still took us about 8 hours.
The instructions are available online: http://murpskits.com/catalog/docs/c14cc-install.htm In my humble opinion; one requires some expertise working with wiring and vacuum lines in order to do a good and proper install. 

The unit works with vacuum rather than working electronically, so it does not function like the cruise on modern cars and trucks. Example; lets say that I want to set it on 60 mph, if I'm travelling along at 60 and press the set button I must allow the bike to slow to about 55 before I feel the cruise take over. One must keep the RPM up. It will hold 60 provided it is in 5th gear, if it is in 6th, the cruise is not strong enough. I can however set the cruise at 75 in 6th gear.


You may want to check your dip switches and vacuum supply , also you have too much slack in the throttle cable. It should engage immediately.  i had the same issue.

Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2012, 10:18:29 am »
"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect." I think the terms Aviation and Riding are very interchangeable in this quote.    :truce:

In flying, sailing, or riding, the biggest danger is in the pilot/sailor/rider overestimating their abilities and in failure to assess situations correctly.
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Offline S Smith

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2012, 11:08:05 am »
A ridding buddy who was using a throttle lock almost ran over me when I had to stop real fast for some deer, and he was unable to release his throttle lock fast enough. He had plenty of room to stop, but in the heat of the moment the throttle lock flustered him and ate up valuable seconds when the engine over-reved when he pulled in the clutch. It just about resulted in both of us getting taken out. I'll never use a throttle lock again as a result.

Off topic...
I see the same problem brought about differently with new riders who pull/roll the hand when performing max braking in the quick stop exercise. The engine revs, they lose focus on braking and either delay or release the brakes to correct the revving. This is a matter of developing good skills and habits. IMHO, blaming the equipment for poor rider training/habits is a knee-jerk reaction.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 11:10:49 am by S Smith »
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2012, 01:13:11 pm »
Off topic...
I see the same problem brought about differently with new riders who pull/roll the hand when performing max braking in the quick stop exercise. The engine revs, they lose focus on braking and either delay or release the brakes to correct the revving. This is a matter of developing good skills and habits. IMHO, blaming the equipment for poor rider training/habits is a knee-jerk reaction.

Even as long as I have ridden, every time I get a new bike my skills diminish for about 6,000 miles. I caught myself letting the throttle roll when I start to brake suddenly. Have to relearn it again. Practice, practice, practice.

This is why brand new riders need to take "small bites" to begin with. I knew I was messing up. A new rider doesn't know what they don't know. That is patently dangerous.
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Offline EnsoniqDude

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2012, 10:57:56 am »
This whole problem could have been solved if Kawi had made it a factory option from the get go.

Are we listening, corporate?
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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2012, 11:12:41 am »
This whole problem could have been solved if Kawi had made it a factory option from the get go.

Are we listening, corporate?

I am fairly certain KHI is aware of the fact Concours 14 owners are very often putting aftermarket repurposed car cruise controls on their bikes.

Not sure that is enough to get them to put one on as a factory option much less standard equipment.

My take is when we get the next generation, be that 2013 or 2014 or whenever, KHI might offer one. But if the 2013 is just a new set of paint colors again, we probably won't see electronic cruise control, for example.
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2012, 01:04:43 pm »
OFFTOPIC

Along those lines, I am hoping that for 14/15 along with CC we see the new ZX14 motor :)
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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2012, 06:30:56 pm »
Meanwhile, Triumph is coming out with their competitor in the market - everything the C14 has plus heated - adjustable saddles, cruise control, standard mount for GPS, electronically adjustable headlights, 6.9 Gallon fuel tank and electronically adjustable suspension.  Blurb in this month's Cycle World.
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2012, 08:32:16 pm »
Yes but will it have Kipass LOL    :rotflmao:
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: cruse controll
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2012, 03:12:46 am »
The Triumph will have no effect on the Connie because Triumph's US market share is trivial and their European and Asian market share isn't much better.

Triumph hasn't been a major player since the late 1970s.
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