Author Topic: factory cruise control  (Read 7739 times)

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Offline WI guy

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factory cruise control
« on: June 10, 2011, 08:34:04 pm »
Does anyone think that the Concours will eventually offer electronic cruise as an option?  I notice that Kawasaki has added a cruise  to the new Vaquero cruiser so they must know how to do it.  Might that be extended to the C-14 soon?  I know guys have successfully added car systems but I'm just not comfortable with cut and paste add ons.  I understand the sport in sport touring but I also know that some interstate mile munching is necessary to get to the really good twisties.  Any rumors out there?

Offline Bergmen

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2011, 08:50:34 pm »
Yamaha doesn't offer one on the FJR, Honda doesn't on the ST1300. Must be some sort of attitude that they think ST's don't need them or something. It also could be due to liability.

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Offline WI guy

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2011, 08:55:36 pm »
Thanks Dan--liability could be the issue but I notice BMW has offered cruise on the K12-13 and now 16 GT and GTL for years.  Those rides have plenty of horses but a price tag and service costs beyond the average working stiff like me.

Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2011, 08:56:46 pm »
Anything you hear would probably be nothing more than rumor. The Vaquero like the Voyager that it's based on have cruise control. In fact the older Voyager's had cruise control. It has to be a liability issue. Why else would they not offer it? I guess they are OK with BMW having it because on the price difference will probably still keep a lot of people from buying the BMW.

Offline C1xRider

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2011, 09:34:27 pm »
Neither the video game programmers, or the ZX14 racers, ever thought of cruise control as an option.

Anything is possible (I'll bet most didn't expect the 2010 to be so different before it came out), but if you're using that as the reason to hold off buying one, you might be waiting for awhile.

Or, maybe the 2012 will have it.  After all, the precedence was set of major updates after only 2 years.   :-X
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2011, 11:38:47 pm »
Typically what you'll see happen is one manufacturer will add a new option and then others will follow. Electrically adjustable windsheilds and heated grips and seats on motorcycles are perfect examples. Now electric windshields are pretty much expected on ST bikes. It wasn't long ago that only one or two bikes had them.

I'd guess that in 2 or 3 years you'll see cruise control starting to be offered on more bikes. Once one or two manufactures start to do it, more will follow. Its been available on BMWs and the Honda GoldWing for quite a while, but its been slow to trickle down onto more mainstream bikes. I'd speculate that the Concours and FJR are ripe for this feature. Yamaha seems overdue for a makeover for the FJR, maybe the next gen Feejer will have it, and that will probably force Kawasaki's hand and then they'll add it to the Concours.
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Offline WI guy

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2011, 01:46:12 am »
Thanks for the info--looks as though a factory cruise depends on one of the big three makers adding a cruise to the FJR C-14 or ST to get the ball rolling.  I currently have a GL 1800 and an FJR.  I'd like to upgrade the FJR to a newer Connie but next ST bike must have a cruise because I find as I get older, holding the throttle in one position puts too much strain on the wrist.  In fact, I ride the GL about three times as much--especailly on trips over 500 miles.  The FJR has a greater fun factor but I just can't enjoy the fun for the extended period of time required to travel to Colorado or Tennessee or West Virginia.  I'll just wait patiently and continue to use the cramp buster and GO throttle lock.

Offline JoeR

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2011, 03:46:49 am »
McCruise makes a near plug and play unit for the C-14, those who have ponied up the admission price of close to $1000 seem to be pleased with it.  The problem with the factory adding cruise, and tip over protection, etc. etc. is that it drives up the cost of admission, pretty soon a C-14 would cost within a couple thou of the K1600GT.  And that would put it out of reach of a lot of folks, those who could afford to pay 20K for a bike, might as well buy the BMW.

Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2011, 08:56:51 am »
Like Joe said, the McCruise is the best option right now. I installed a McCruise on both my C14 and FJR. Both work flawlessly and are pretty close to looking like they belong. Although untill the switch gear is integrated into the bike for real (by the manufacturer). The McCruise is as close as it comes. But they are designed for the bike. Are pretty much plug and play. And work flawlessly. But as Joe has said. They are now around $1,000. Which is not cheap. But it's an option if you want a C14 with cruise!

Offline Scott Bechler

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2011, 02:48:33 am »
The problem with the factory adding cruise, and tip over protection, etc. etc. is that it drives up the cost of admission, pretty soon a C-14 would cost within a couple thou of the K1600GT. 

ABS & traction control is now standard. They added a set of electronically controlled butterflies to the intake for the traction control and left the cable operated primary butterflies, God knows why. Shouldn't cost too much to ditch the primary butterflies, connect the twist grip to the ECM and program for Cruise Control. They should be able to upgrade to drive-by-wire, and add a couple switches for less than $1000.

Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2011, 08:03:32 am »
But will they? Until the competition offers a cruise control on their motorcycles first in a fairly close price range. (BMW being quite a bit more expensive) There is probably no incentive for them to add the cruise control. They are making profits from us buying the bikes without it! It's probably the way to get you to move up to a more expensive tour bike like a Voyager. I guess they don't understand that some people enjoy sporting and touring on their tour bikes!
  Actually I think they do. But why increase possible liability and lower profits to add CC. We really don't matter to them, as long as we buy what they offer!

Offline BDF

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2011, 06:41:19 pm »
I agree with Cap'n Bob- Kawasaki is evil because they are trying to show profits. Unlike for example Yamaha, who offers luxurious motorcycles at virtually no cost to the customer. And they include cruise control and even throw in a microwave. In fact I've heard that next year, Yamaha is going to offer a larger but lighter bike with even more options for so much less money that the monetary transfer will actually go toward the customer! Yep, that's right- "buy" a Yamaha with no money and get a check in return. The check gets larger as you increase the amount and value of options of course.

And Cap'n Bob goes to work whether they pay him or not simply because his job needs to be done and he, like Yamaha, knows that money is not the most important thing.

Geez Bob, your rhetoric is getting a little foolish even for you.... :D

Now, all the way back to the cruise control: it is a liability issue on Japanese bikes. Japanese manufacturers certainly know how to incorporate a CC on any vehicle they mfg. but they do not do so on those bikes with high power- to- weight ratios. Voyagers and Gold Wings yes, 'Busas and ZX's, no. The current sport tourers seem to fall on the sport bike side of the CC line. Only the European motorcycle manufacturers will include a CC on a high power bike (K1300 GT BMW).

Brian


But will they? Until the competition offers a cruise control on their motorcycles first in a fairly close price range. (BMW being quite a bit more expensive) There is probably no incentive for them to add the cruise control. They are making profits from us buying the bikes without it! It's probably the way to get you to move up to a more expensive tour bike like a Voyager. I guess they don't understand that some people enjoy sporting and touring on their tour bikes!
  Actually I think they do. But why increase possible liability and lower profits to add CC. We really don't matter to them, as long as we buy what they offer!
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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2011, 06:59:03 pm »
I agree with Cap'n Bob- Kawasaki is evil because they are trying to show profits. Unlike for example Yamaha, who offers luxurious motorcycles at virtually no cost to the customer. And they include cruise control and even throw in a microwave. In fact I've heard that next year, Yamaha is going to offer a larger but lighter bike with even more options for so much less money that the monetary transfer will actually go toward the customer! Yep, that's right- "buy" a Yamaha with no money and get a check in return. The check gets larger as you increase the amount and value of options of course.

And Cap'n Bob goes to work whether they pay him or not simply because his job needs to be done and he, like Yamaha, knows that money is not the most important thing.

Geez Bob, your rhetoric is getting a little foolish even for you.... :D

Now, all the way back to the cruise control: it is a liability issue on Japanese bikes. Japanese manufacturers certainly know how to incorporate a CC on any vehicle they mfg. but they do not do so on those bikes with high power- to- weight ratios. Voyagers and Gold Wings yes, 'Busas and ZX's, no. The current sport tourers seem to fall on the sport bike side of the CC line. Only the European motorcycle manufacturers will include a CC on a high power bike (K1300 GT BMW).

Brian


But will they? Until the competition offers a cruise control on their motorcycles first in a fairly close price range. (BMW being quite a bit more expensive) There is probably no incentive for them to add the cruise control. They are making profits from us buying the bikes without it! It's probably the way to get you to move up to a more expensive tour bike like a Voyager. I guess they don't understand that some people enjoy sporting and touring on their tour bikes!
  Actually I think they do. But why increase possible liability and lower profits to add CC. We really don't matter to them, as long as we buy what they offer!


When did I say the Kawasaki was evil, bad or anything different than the other manufacturers? You speak again as person in defence of his employer. You also insinuate in your post, that you have the correct information on what Kawasaki is doing (as only an employee would know)! Since I said nothing anti-Kawasaki, but you still need to defend you boss and claim they do no wrong. I say that you must be feeling better now from your trips effects!  :))

Offline Scott Bechler

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 10:02:49 am »
The fact that the Voyager is a drive by wire system probably doesn't hurt either. As far as CC on a high power to weight bike... I'm not saying your wrong about Kawi not doing it, but how is a 160 HP / 700 lb bike with the cruise set at 80 any more dangerous than a 85 HP / 900 lb bike with the cruise set at 80. Power to weight is a consideration for acceleration not cruising.
 
Now, all the way back to the cruise control: it is a liability issue on Japanese bikes. Japanese manufacturers certainly know how to incorporate a CC on any vehicle they mfg. but they do not do so on those bikes with high power- to- weight ratios. Voyagers and Gold Wings yes, 'Busas and ZX's, no. The current sport tourers seem to fall on the sport bike side of the CC line. Only the European motorcycle manufacturers will include a CC on a high power bike (K1300 GT BMW).

Brian


But will they? Until the competition offers a cruise control on their motorcycles first in a fairly close price range. (BMW being quite a bit more expensive) There is probably no incentive for them to add the cruise control. They are making profits from us buying the bikes without it! It's probably the way to get you to move up to a more expensive tour bike like a Voyager. I guess they don't understand that some people enjoy sporting and touring on their tour bikes!
  Actually I think they do. But why increase possible liability and lower profits to add CC. We really don't matter to them, as long as we buy what they offer!


Offline BDF

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 03:12:30 pm »
Right, there is little difference cruising (no pun intended) down the road. The difference comes in when the throttle hangs or sticks due to the CC or worse yet, something in the CC goes wrong and it opens the throttle much too far. On a more sedate bike, this results in a surprise acceleration and while it is certainly dangerous, it is usually something that the rider can handle and generally regain control. On a bike that will lift the front end, the outcome is not so likely to be that mild.

Brian


The fact that the Voyager is a drive by wire system probably doesn't hurt either. As far as CC on a high power to weight bike... I'm not saying your wrong about Kawi not doing it, but how is a 160 HP / 700 lb bike with the cruise set at 80 any more dangerous than a 85 HP / 900 lb bike with the cruise set at 80. Power to weight is a consideration for acceleration not cruising.
 

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Offline rdm197apd

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2011, 06:02:36 am »
 ??? Hmmmm.... ive opened WOT while criusing at approx 80 mph, 90mph, even 110 mph and the front end never came close to lifting... ive gone WOT all the way to 160 with little fanfare not much altitude from the front end. i dont think the issue is the front end lifting up. i think the issue is liability, sales figures, and price. we all know the wires, programming, and servos are not evpensive; however due to lawyers and litigation, the amount of research required to place a cc system onto a high horse power/low weight machine with the capability to reach speeds in excess of 200mph (the eventuality of total speed restriction failure) and the legal nightmare that could result as a reaction to one incident of throttle control failure, then there is really no profitable advantage to adding a CC to a sport bike. Yup, they're still selling, and at a decent price!!! I'm sure the bikes are getting more expensive to keep high school and college kids (usually the newer and inexperienced rider) off the big bikes and on the 250s. Us more "mature" riders tent to take less risks, and have better bank accounts (or we're recently single and going through a mid life crises).

Traction control, heated seats, heated grips, power bug catchers, and ABS are feel good things that probably wont result in litigation due to failure; however i guarantee if CC on a sport bike fails, and that failure produces any injury or death the family will sue the pants off the manufacture. We live in a sue happy country where someone can spill coffee on their lap and sue McDonalds and win.   i agree CC would be nice on my C14, and i'm tempted to get an after market system, but i can say that i have not installed one yet due to fear of the system failing.  the manufacturers are trying to cover their backs, and not increase the chance of litigation on a machine that most of society see as a nuisance, which is the reason the bikes were limited to 186 mph, and most cops (unlike myself) drool at the chance to put the rider in jail for any reason (i just ignore them, cant catch them anyway and its not worth them or me dying for a ticket).

BMW has probably just said screwit, and throws all the luxury it can at its customers because that's what they've come to expect. I see BMWs as a hey look at what i can afford bike (yes if i could afford one i would have bought one) similar to a Bently or Maybach. when it all comes down to it, my C14 is still a mc just like the BMWs that are always in my rear view way back there on cruise control.

That's my humble opinion and yours may vary. I like a good debate, so dont worry about being gentile when responding to this thread!!! Bring it if you disagree!!! :)) after the smoke clears and wounds are healed we can go for a ride, i'm off every Wed, Thurs, and Fri.  :motonoises:  :P BMW... gimme a few more years and maybe i'll have one

 
Ricky Bobby

Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2011, 07:53:42 am »
 I don't know about y'all, but I had to really try to get the front end to lift on my C14. It never just comes up on a whim. Maybe if I cranked her up and dumped the clutch or over hitting the throttle over good size bumps does help. But never by just twisting the throttle while cruising. And never anything below slower speeds in the lower gears! Of course to be fair, I'm not 100 lbs either. Not even close!  :))
  So I don't see this as being a viable excuse for the lack of cruise control. I think it's more about costs. Instead they give you unessary useless items like KIPASS!  >:(   :))

Offline rdm197apd

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2011, 09:07:17 am »
So Captn BOB, how do you feel about Keypass???  :rotflmao:
Ricky Bobby

Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2011, 09:22:59 am »
So Captn BOB, how do you feel about Keypass???  :rotflmao:


 Your a funny guy!   :85:

Offline Pistole

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2012, 07:12:19 am »
- just to kick this thread back to life again !!

- am seriously considering the McCruise cruise control for my GTR.

- Bob , could you please help with some background on your install and eventual use of the CC. I also intend to DIY it and am concerned that it may be over my head ...

thanks !

.

Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2012, 10:01:02 am »
The McCruise is as close to plug and play as possible. Most of the price comes from labor, they take a standard vacuum-based cruise control and package it. The package has all the wiring harness connectors already installed, and at least one PLC (programmable logic controller) to interface with the bike's bus. Nothing electronic I've seen comes close to being as easy to installed, though the Rostra turned out to be pretty much cake once the actuator cable was attached to the throttle idler arm.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 10:02:55 am by JR »
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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2012, 10:09:59 am »
- just to kick this thread back to life again !!

- am seriously considering the McCruise cruise control for my GTR.

- Bob , could you please help with some background on your install and eventual use of the CC. I also intend to DIY it and am concerned that it may be over my head ...

thanks !

.

   The McCruise is a very well designed system. Their instructions are also excellent. With both good directions and accompanying photo's, it should not be too bad.  McCruise makes it about as plug and play as you can get. Yes you will have to spin some bolts, and even move a pin of two in and out of connectors. But they show you what to do in the directions (with photo's). So even a novice wrench-er should be able to install their McCruise system.
   I think the biggest thing is giving yourself time to do it. Do not rush and take your time. If it comes easy and your done in a couple of hours, great. But I recommend giving yourself the weekends and taking your time. That way if you feel like your getting stressed, take a break. I did mine with a bunch of other upgrades like auxiliary fuse block, wiring for other farkles and such. So mine was pretty in depth.
   The best part of a McCruise system is their customer service. A while after I had installed and had been using the McCruise, I was playing around with the calibration (something that you do not need to in the first place) and I screwed up a setting that I didn't notice. (totally my fault) Well I'm panicking becuase I'm suppose to leave in the AM for a long trip. So I shot off an email to McCruise in desperation. It was the middle of the night there in Australia (I'm guessing).
   So a little while later, the phone rings (about 7PM) it was McCruise calling from Australia to help me find out what I did. Well my wife thinks it's a crack phone call and hangs up on them. Well they again call back, and help me find my screw-up. I was probably early morning in Australia at the time. And the called me in the US not just once, but twice.
   The problem turned out to be my changing the clutch switch position sensor when I was playing with the diagnostics. (again which I didn't need to and it was all my fault) I should have even found it on my own, but was in such a stupor over it, that I just kept overlooking what was right in front of me and in the book.
   I cannot thank the guys from McCruise enough and highly recommend their cruise control to folks. Yes they are expensive. But they are well engineered, fairly easy to install (close to plug and play). Their directions are excellent. And last but not least, their customer service has proven to be second to none (IMO).
   Then there is the function to the MCCruise. I have had one on my last two bikes since 08 or 09. Neither has ever given me a hiccup other than my self induced screw up that I just told you about. And I only did that to give you an idea how good their customer service is.
  The McCruise has a lighted control panel for low light or in the dark operation. It has the ability to adjust your speed up or down by one MPH at a time by just clicking the controls. That way if your going a hair too fast or too slow and you want to adjust your speed, you can. I use it all the time on the highway when going with the flow. It allows me not to catch others too quick or not fall behind becuase they are going it manual fell (no cruise).
   The McCruise can vary the speed by a mile or two per hour from what you set it at. But is not a problem in any way for me. It works smoothly and properly every time. Now the McCruise is vacuum controlled. Folks have said they have had a little difference is speed on other vacuum controlled units (Audiovox) in very high altitudes. So it is also possible that the McCruise could have a wider speed differance in very high elevations. I have not seen any differences, but I do not spend a lot of time about 4,000 ft or more. And when I do, I'm normally not using the CC anyway. But I figured that I would mention it.
    The C14 uses a vacuum canister for extra vacuum. But it's pretty small (and my FJR doesn't use a vacuum canister at all). So it's possible that the McCruise system might require less vacuum to operate that other vacuum controlled CC's. I have had the McCruise on my C14 and on my FJR. They have been flawless and a great asset to my motorcycles. And yes I would more that likely buy yet another one if I changed bikes again. Yes they are expensive. But IMO, worth it. Until the manfaturers put OEM CC's on their bikes. I do not see a better option out their. LEss expensive, certainly. But none better and maybe even not as good. That would be a matter of opinion.
   Hope this helps. If you have any more questions, I'll try to help.

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2012, 10:22:20 am »
The new Triumph Trophy is going to have factory cruise control. Several of the BMW models also have it, and BMW has had it for quite a while. Honda has been putting it on the GoldWing since the early 1990's. So I don't think liability has anything to do with it. It's more about costs. And now that Triumph has raised the bar by putting it on the new Trophy, I suspect you'll soon see other manufactures of ST bikes follow suit to keep up with them. I'll bet when Yamaha updates the FJR they add it, and I would suspect that when Kawasaki redesigns the Concours they'll add it as well in order to keep up with everyone else.

The only bad news in this is that the way most manufactures are designing cruise controls these days is by converting the bike to a ride-by-wire throttle control system, which introduces other issues that you may not like, like poor throttle feel.
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Offline Pistole

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2012, 11:32:23 am »
- Bob , thanks man.

- am exchanging emails now and going through the .pdf installation instruction. Its pretty involved ....

Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: factory cruise control
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2012, 11:48:29 am »
- Bob , thanks man.

- am exchanging emails now and going through the .pdf installation instruction. Its pretty involved ....

If you think the McCruise installation is "pretty involved" imagine what doing it with the starter kit yourself, the one that McCruise starts with.
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