Author Topic: HID Projector KT-MT5D  (Read 9454 times)

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Offline BDF

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2012, 08:24:02 pm »
Pure white, or as close as HIDs can get (they miss significant portions of the light spectrum so they cannot really produce true, pure white light) occurs at 4,100K. That is what all the OEM manufactures make- Philips, Osram and GE. Also that is the color that produces the greatest output of light- moving higher or lower will always result in less light output from the same power input. I use HIDs in the 4XXX range as available (sometimes 4,100, sometimes 4,500, whatever that particular mfg. offers).

35 watt HIDs put out about 3,100 lumens, which is over 3X what a high performance H4 tungsten bulb will deliver (1,000 lumens, governed in the US by DOT). 55 watt HIDs must be truly impressive although I have never seen a set as far as I know, and I have never used a set. They <might> be OK in a C-14 housing but again, I suggest using a reasonable approach if you try them- put them in the bike, adjust the cut- off line correctly (so that it points slightly down, I believe it should be 2 1/2" lower at 25 feet or something similar), stand in front of the bike and look at the headlights. Move your head down to just above the cut- off line where other drivers will be and see if the light is annoying, blinding or glaring. If so, then I would say 55 watts is too much for these housings.

By the way, 55 watt HIDs are too bright for max. headlight output according to DOT; nothing to do with aiming or housing type, they just produce more light than is legal in the US. Again, I would test it out for myself and use reason and a little consideration for others rather than exactly conforming to the letter of any law but I think they might really be a bit too much for low beam use where there is other traffic. Off road however, too much is just right and those burners in a high performance housing like a Soltek will probably burn the retinas out of small animals in the next time zone. In other words, close to just enough light.  :-)

Brian


Man I am on their website and it's CHEAP!!

I can get an H4 Dual (high/low) kit for like 60 bucks...  Just need to decide what color temp I want (I want white so I assume 4500k would be ok....

And need to decide if 35W or 55W is ok..  I assume the 55W would be too much for the bikes reflectors to handle (Too much light splashing around etc)



Meethinks i'm going to give this kit a try :)
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Offline BDF

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2012, 08:35:58 pm »
Just incase anyone is wondering what they look like, this is a set of Bosch bi- xenon projectors. They are large, not weathertight and quite expensive, and possibly some of the finest headlights currently available. Standard equipment on high end German cars. Hella also makes excellent lighting but I think these projectors just may have the edge in light output due to the quality of the lens glass and diameter (bigger is always better no matter what you may have heard).

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=bosch+projector+headlights&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1536&bih=890&tbm=isch&tbnid=SP6kvD5qbXO-WM:&imgrefurl=http://www.lulusoso.com/products/Wira-Projector-Headlamp-Cars.html&docid=iurzOsvj21poaM&imgurl=http://www.lulusoso.com/upload/20120417/Bosch_Bi_Xenon_Projector_Lens_D1S.jpg&w=700&h=700&ei=cWYtUKaRIsmr2AWBtIHoDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=192&vpy=325&dur=1132&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=127&ty=89&sig=112869980446327644725&page=1&tbnh=168&tbnw=168&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:94

Brian
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2012, 03:10:00 am »
WOW impressive knowledge there Brian :)

I am going to order a kit of 4500K hi/low HID's and try them out....   You may make a convert out of me yet LOL
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Offline BDF

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2012, 04:51:54 pm »
I am glad you are learning about them (and everything else) but I am certainly not trying to convert you or anyone. Just trying to help you gain a little knowledge. In fact I would be perfectly happy if you ended up hating them but I would rather it be from knowledge and basic understanding, along with specific reasons as opposed to just taking a stance and forming an opinion based on incorrect information or worse yet, no information at all.

A lot of people form an opinion and then look for justification to support that opinion regardless of any facts or reasonableness. Unfortunately that is easier to do than a real evaluation and so laziness often carries the day.

A little off topic: I am currently installing lighting in my kitchen after a major renovation. We chose what seemed like good lighting, very modern, pretty 'cool' looking and we were very happy with the choice. Of the three systems (main overhead, under cabinet and over sink), only the over sink lighting is staying. The other two systems just are not working out- they are still 'cool' but are proving to be rather poor lighting devices; uneven illumination, not quite enough illumination from the main lights, and mostly, the casting of strong shadow (quite annoying when just sitting and conversing) and the worst problem, most of the illumination is on the floor rather than spread evenly about the room. A 1930 hanging fixture with two 100 watt bulbs and a flat glass cover (worth about $25 altogether) yields superior lighting to my pretty high tech, somewhat expensive and hugely difficult to install recessed lighting system. Emotionally I want this system to work but in reality it just ain't makin' the trip. And yes, I have tried different types of light (tungsten and LED), different beam spread angles, etc. and while some are better than others, none are really adequate. Finally, it is an absolute power pig- 400 watts of lights baking down on everyone and it's still a bit dim here and there. But I am still glad I learned about this rather than just guessed at the outcome (although a better guess would have been cheaper). Now on to an even higher tech., more expensive lighting system! But I am holding the idea of the 1920 fixture with a pull string as a final option.  ;D

Brian


Brian

WOW impressive knowledge there Brian :)

I am going to order a kit of 4500K hi/low HID's and try them out....   You may make a convert out of me yet LOL
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Offline Samuel

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2012, 07:44:25 pm »
This has been some of the best information I've received. Thank you everyone. I'll be doing the install in a couple weeks already have the lights. These light are designed for motorcycles mounts right up in the housing. If you go to the website they have a video showing how simple the install is. My only concern now is making sure I don't Blind anyone.  I plan on taking pictures and video of the install. I'll keep you guys posted. I've learned a tone. Also the lights someone posted on here where Projector but now angel eye or demon eye. The details makes the difference.  Thank guys again this is going to be a fun project. I'm also installing the Cross Country PIAA driving lights using Murph's Mirror Mounts, believe I'll have my light cure now.

Offline Kapernicus

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2012, 11:58:20 pm »
All good info in this thread. However, I would still be interested to hear the OP's experience with the projector style HIDs he mentioned.  As samwilliams33 pointed out, the company selling the projectors has an install video to give you an idea of how to retro fit an existing headlight housing:

Motorcycle HID Projector Installation Guide_Motorcycle Headlight Retrofit_KT-MT5


With this video and the information gleaned from the A&R Motorsports guide to installing their HID kit on a C-14, a chowderhead like me could probably pull this off:

http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/directions/concourshidinstructions.html

Keep us posted!   :beerchug:
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2012, 12:29:17 am »
I ordered the kit, once it arrives I will try to document the install ...
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Offline Kapernicus

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2012, 01:04:39 am »
Nice!  Also wondering if it's possible to remove the silver reflective lining in the headlight housing while it's taken apart for the projector install since I would assume it is not really necessary with HID projectors.  My thinking is that this would give the illusion of blacking out the headlights, thus giving the bike an aggressive ZX-14-like appearance which would compliment my black C-14 very nicely.   ;D
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Offline Kapernicus

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2012, 01:19:45 am »
This is what I was talking about in regards to "blacking out" the headlight housing.  Looks like the dude just spray painted the reflector and projector housing\shroud.  Skip to 7:20 in the video to see the end result.  Tres chic!   :)

Installation guide for retrofitting mini Bi-Xenon projectors in Motorcycle headlight


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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2012, 03:24:47 am »
PS, when I say I ordered the kit, I meant I ordered the HID kit BDF recommended..not the one the OP asked about LOL (Sorry if I wasn't clearer :) )
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Offline BDF

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2012, 06:16:26 pm »
Hey Marc, did you get that kit in the bike yet? Did it hurt your retinas? :-)

I just picked up a spare headlight housing and am going to run it through the oven later and try to seperate the lens from the body. Then I will be hunting down a set of projectors myself for a retrofit.

Brian

PS, when I say I ordered the kit, I meant I ordered the HID kit BDF recommended..not the one the OP asked about LOL (Sorry if I wasn't clearer :) )
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2012, 12:22:37 pm »
It hasn't arrived yet :(  Once it does I need to find some time to install it.

I'm very curious to see how your projector project goes.... :)
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Offline Bruiser

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2012, 01:44:36 am »
BDF is right, although there are kits that some folks use in the existing housings.  If you look online, there are a lot of videos on how to do this right, and yes, it is pretty involved, such as using the oven to loosen things up, etc. 
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Offline BDF

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2012, 12:43:21 pm »
You probably already know this but just to be safe, please be aware that the igniters will start an arc in those lamps with 20,000 + volts. No need to be wary really but there is one overriding rule: do not power up the ballasts without a bulb in place in the socket. It can all be laying on the ground or your kitchen table and it is perfectly safe but you have to give that voltage somewhere to discharge or it will arc inside the connector or worse, from the connector to you. As long as a system is complete, it is perfectly safe (ballast, igniter and bulb all connected correctly).

I got my housing in a couple of days ago and with some trepidation, ran it through the oven one time. OK, two times to get it hot enough and I was successful in separating the lens from the housing proper.

This is the headlight housing broken down (bad words!) separated into its main components and with one reflector bowl removed:


This is the reflector bucket from the back showing the three mounting points (two for adjustment, one is an anchor):


This is where the bucket mounts into the housing. It is hard to see but there are three screws projecting forward, two adjustments and one regular bolt:


And finally this is how the reflectors mount, align and adjust in the housing:


In a perfect world, I would be able to find a pair of projectors with mounting tabs in the right place and just bolt them in. That ain't gonna' happen as each one is a 'one off' and nothing in interchangeable. Besides, projectors are much longer than reflectors so the ellipsoidal housing of a projector usually ends up pretty far to the rear of the headlight housing. The two critical parts are that the projectors are timed (rotated) correctly so the cut- off line of projected light is aligned with the horizon, or in other words, NOT crooked with the world, and that the projector remain adjustable in some way for height. I am going to try to retain both stock adjustment points because they work well, are watertight, have dash controls for easy reach adjustment, and I cannot do any better that what is already there. So this is the crux of a projector retrofit- getting the projectors mounted inside the housing, rotated correctly and being adjustable.

Now to choose the projector.... I wonder if it looks funny when I walk through a public parking lot, occasionally kneeling down to study a headlight on a given car? :-)  I would like to go with a 3" lens as they yield the best light output but they also yield a pretty big projector housing due to the focal length of the lens and projector bowl. Going with a smaller lens is the safer way but limits the light's quality right from the start. Sounds like Goldilocks- This projector is too big, this projector is too small....

Will post more photos and information when I have projectors and a plan.

Brian




It hasn't arrived yet :(  Once it does I need to find some time to install it.

I'm very curious to see how your projector project goes.... :)
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2012, 03:47:05 pm »
Wow, great pics Brian,  I am really looking forward to seeing how this comes out....


If I recall, one of the posts in this thread shows someone installing projectors in a motorcycle that lock into the standard H4 base... Don't know what kind of quality they would provide. but would something like that be an option for your project?
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Offline Kapernicus

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2012, 04:06:05 pm »
Brian,

You should check out these 3" projectors:  http://www.theretrofitsource.com/product_info.php?products_id=92

I like their selection and, from what I understand, they provide excellent support for retrofitting HID projectors onto anything. 

Anyhow, I look forward to seeing your project complete as I want to do the same thing to my bike.
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Offline BDF

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2012, 01:10:15 am »
They are interesting but no, they are too small to produce a lot of light in my opinion. Optics is all about size and quality of components and assembly (alignment actually) of those components.

The idea is really quite clever I think but I wonder if it is a good idea to hang an entire light assembly, and a heavy type at that (projectors are heavy compared to reflectors) on the lip in the back of a reflector housing originally meant to hold only a bulb. I would think over time it would tend to crack the original housing as they are made of plastic. ?? Just an opinion  though and as I have never seen one in person I would certainly take the opportunity to study one if or when I do happen to cross one.

I am pretty excited about it and have been wanting to do this since I got the bike in '07. Of course I was not going to make these types of heavy and experimental modifications to the bucket on my new C-14, and buying a new headlight bucket was simply too expensive. Used ones were not available and they are still not common- the first thing that gets crushed when wrecking a motorcycle is often the front end. So this has been a pet project of mine, albeit on the back burner, for quite a while.

Brian


Wow, great pics Brian,  I am really looking forward to seeing how this comes out....


If I recall, one of the posts in this thread shows someone installing projectors in a motorcycle that lock into the standard H4 base... Don't know what kind of quality they would provide. but would something like that be an option for your project?
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Offline BDF

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2012, 01:16:17 am »
Yep, those are the latest incarnation of the E-55 optics and are supposed to be even better than the earlier type. If that is true, they must be just a bit beyond superb. I was all set to grab a set of those very projectors <when suddenly>, I got turned a bit further east and am now looking at a set of TL projectors. They seem to have an even wider light pattern than the E-55's and the foreground lighting is reduced which really helps long range night vision. They are some really big, oddly shaped housings though so I am not absolutely sure I can shoe- horn them into the C-14 housing. I think I will try to get a set of them next week with the proviso that if I cannot fit them, I can return them in exchange for the Hellas.

Brian


Brian,

You should check out these 3" projectors:  http://www.theretrofitsource.com/product_info.php?products_id=92

I like their selection and, from what I understand, they provide excellent support for retrofitting HID projectors onto anything. 

Anyhow, I look forward to seeing your project complete as I want to do the same thing to my bike.
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2012, 02:54:37 am »
Whatever you decide to do, please keep documenting it, it's a fascinating project :)
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Offline BDF

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2012, 09:34:07 pm »
Just a quick update because this is a little offtopic:

The TL projectors are not going to work in the C-14 housings, at least not readily. I have swapped them out for a pair of Infinity FX 35/ 45 projectors and those should be here by the end of the week. The light output seems close to the TL, the high beam is better suited for motorcycle use IMO, and the overall projector is smaller and does not have that pesky solenoid sticking down from the bottom so they will fit much more easily.

Maybe what the bike really needs are four projectors, two bi-xenon for normal use and two adjusted [too high] to perform as wide angle driving lights (only used when no oncoming traffic is present) to light up the rest of the Earth that is more than two feet above the ground. Sort of like a ZX 14 but with much better projectors.

Brian
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Offline Raymond

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2012, 12:50:43 am »
Brian, when I did the Miata's headlights I wound up using the Morimoto bi-xenons. The Miata headlight assembly limited my choices just like the Connie... They were small enough to fit without issue had a good pattern/cutoff and provided a lot more light. Here's what the finished product looked like.

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Offline stephen.stallebrass

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Re: HID Projector KT-MT5D
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2013, 10:08:29 pm »
WHAT???

 >:(

Please don't tellme the story ends here... I need a proper ending!

 :'(