Author Topic: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs  (Read 171 times)

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Offline Rob

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GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« on: January 15, 2020, 04:54:24 pm »
I'm somewhat interested in these GTR Ultra 2 LED bulbs. I was wondering if anyone has used them in a Connie and can comment.

https://headlightrevolution.com/h4-9003-gtr-lighting-ultra-2/

For those who arent aware, these LED bulbs are purpose designed LED's for headlight housings, rather than just using "market available" LEDs to create an H4 bulb.

Here is a rather long, but informative, video about them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO8Nuj6tPy4
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Offline Daboo

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 05:28:36 pm »
I clicked on the link and laughed when I saw the price.  $239??? 

You can find excellent H4 LED lights on Amazon for $29...and that's two bulbs, not one.

Check out this thread over on the ST-Owners forum.  H4 LED - 2018 Evitek, F2 replaces G6

There's a member, Spiderman302, who has done a lot of research as you'll see by reading the 20 pages in the thread.  As you read through the thread, you'll see it covers two years of technology changes.  He goes into things like how thick the substrate is that holds the LED chips and how close that then mimics the placement of the filament on the halogen bulb.  Here's an example from one of the earlier pages.

Quote from: spiderman302, post: 2067130, member: 26420

Maybe I can explain the small differences. Go get some popcorn.....

First if you have the original H4 3800 with shields, the cyclops 7000, the G6, the DEDC, or the new F2 bulb they are all amazing and create DOT compliant beam patterns. This is due to the shield under the low beam. The shield works because the low beam is forward of the focus point. The high beam is closest to the focus point.   BUT...

To help understand, get your old mag light and focus the beam to a point. Now, slightly defocus the beam and it will be bigger dot. defocus it more and it becomes a donut with a dark spot in the middle. It only took a very small offset to change this pattern...  Lets look under the microscope.

If you measure the distance between the back to back emitters on the 7000 or 3800 they are offset by 0.235 inches. It uses two copper plates on a thick AL heatspreader. Remember the donut.  These bulbs have the dark spot in the middle of the high beam.....

[ATTACH]190210[/ATTACH]

The G6 reduced this distance to 0.175 inches. It uses two plates on a thin heatspreader.  This one is like the wider spot with no hole.

[ATTACH]190211[/ATTACH]

The DEDC reduced it more to 0.078 inches. It uses two plates sandwiched between two heatspreaders. This one is a more narrow spot.

[ATTACH]190212[/ATTACH]

The F2 reduced it to 0.037 inches.   It uses ONE plate sandwiched between two heatspreaders.  Oh wait..

The Halogen bulb filament is a coil of wire that is 0.068 inches in diameter!!!!

The F2 led emitters are now EXACTLY where the surface of the H4 Halogen filament is !!!

They are the same length of the coil 0.225 inches and are 0.068 wide.

Optically the F2 is the same as the Halogen bulb !!!  Except it is way brighter.

It is all about the focus.  Now you know.

Time to go for a ride........


He makes some specific recommendations on H4 LED bulbs to buy.  I find his work helpful because he isn't looking at price so much as how well they will replace a halogen bulb.  There are a lot of H4 LED bulbs on the market.  Some are older technology and would give you the light pattern he speaks about above with the donut hole dark spot in the middle.  Others are newer and more precisely made and will duplicate the light pattern of the H4 halogen bulb your reflector is made for.  I can't easily tell the difference...but he's done the homework for you.

Chris
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:33:03 pm by Daboo »
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Offline Rob

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 05:38:42 pm »
I clicked on the link and laughed when I saw the price.  $239??? 

You can find excellent H4 LED lights on Amazon for $29...and that's two bulbs, not one.

Check out this thread over on the ST-Owners forum.  https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/h4-led-2018-evitek-f2-replaces-g6.162067/page-20#post-2190975

There's a member, Spiderman302, who has done a lot of research as you'll see by reading the 20 pages in the thread.  As you read through the thread, you'll see it covers two years of technology changes.  He goes into things like how thick the substrate is that holds the LED chips and how close that then mimics the placement of the filament on the halogen bulb.  Here's an example from one of the earlier pages.


He makes some specific recommendations on H4 LED bulbs to buy.  I find his work helpful because he isn't looking at price so much as how well they will replace a halogen bulb.  There are a lot of H4 LED bulbs on the market.  Some are older technology and would give you the light pattern he speaks about above with the donut hole dark spot in the middle.  Others are newer and more precisely made and will duplicate the light pattern of the H4 halogen bulb your reflector is made for.  I can't easily tell the difference...but he's done the homework for you.

Chris

To be fair, that $240 is for two bulbs, and everything you need for them, not just one.

Thank you for pointing to the guy who does the testing. I do find that interesting for sure. That is sort of exactly why these new GTR Ultra 2 bulbs have caught my attention (regardless of cost). These are not "off the shelf" LEDs that are stuffed into a housing. There were purpose built for a headlight bulb housing (h4, etc).

That's exactly what makes these a point of interest. They are able to overcome the limiting factors of, essentially all, current LED offerings because they built these from the ground up specifically for that purpose.

Watch this vid and you can see some distinct differences between this bulb, some other popular LED offerings and some popular HID options.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygPiFvCth3U
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Offline Daboo

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 06:16:16 pm »
    I know he says they are custom made for a vehicle application...but those chips look identical to many on the market.  As I used to tell my mother when she wanted to buy some new program for her computer, the marketing folks get paid to make you buy what you don't necessarily need.

    I've used Cyclops LED bulbs for years now; they are supposed to be a premium quality bulb.  The LED lifetime that is referenced by everyone is what you might get in a lab environment.  And besides, have you ever thought of how long 20,000 to 50,000 hours is?  Even in a lab...who has tested them for that amount of time?

    The first Cyclops bulb lasted about a year.  The second bulb was an updated version...and it failed in about a year.  I'm on the third bulb now, and it is still working.  I like the bulbs, but at the price Cyclops charges, I'll take my chances with one of the versions sold on Amazon.

    I plan to check out the H7 versions of these H4 bulbs.  (My BMW takes the H7.)
    • NINEO H4 9003 LED Headlight Bulbs | CREE Chips 12000Lm 6500K Extremely Bright All-in-One Conversion Kit | 360 Degree Adjustable Beam Angle
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JM421VC/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?pd_rd_i=B078W5WJZ2&th=1
  • H4 9003 LED Headlight Bulb Hi/Lo Beam Conversion Kit SAFEGO 72W 65000K 12000LM(6000LMx2) H4 Bulb Extremely Bright Led Chips Waterproof Ip67 360°Degree Lighting for Car Headlight Replacement,2 Pack
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078RHZGLP/ref=asc_df_B078RHZGLP5864735?tag=shopz0d-20&ascsubtag=shopzilla_mp_1226-20;15592788045799988752110070302008005&creative=395261&creativeASIN=B078RHZGLP&linkCode=asn
  • KATANA H4 9003 LED Headlight Bulbs - CREE Chips w/Adjustable Beam - 12000Lm 6500K Extremely Bright Conversion Kit
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XBZB74X/ref=sspa_dk_detail_7?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B06XBZB74X&pd_rd_w=jHFfg&pf_rd_p=8a8f3917-7900-4ce8-ad90-adf0d53c0985&pd_rd_wg=wshwX&pf_rd_r=R690A5M10F7JFCXM1MYM&pd_rd_r=f5650c3a-8360-11e9-8ec8-f37f2ab7fd5a
[/list]

At @ $25 a bulb, I figure I can take a chance.  If they don't work, I'm not out much money.  But from the feedback on the ST-Owners forum, they do work and work exceptionally well.

Here's a thought...try the cheaper bulb.  If it works for you, you've saved a lot of money and can pass the info on to others.  If it doesn't, let everyone know and then buy the $240 bulb.

Last thought...I'm not sold on the belief that if I pay more money, I get a better product.  I bought ADVMonster Model 30 aux lights for $40 a piece and used those on two different bikes.  Everyone on the NT-Owners forum said the Denali lights were far superior.  So another member and I found a dark parking lot and took pictures with a camera that allowed us to keep the settings the same for both bike's lights.  The cheaper ADVMonster lights blew the far more expensive Denali lights away.  It wasn't even close.

Chris
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 06:19:30 pm by Daboo »
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Offline Rob

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 07:16:53 pm »
I know he says they are custom made for a vehicle application...but those chips look identical to many on the market.  As I used to tell my mother when she wanted to buy some new program for her computer, the marketing folks get paid to make you buy what you don't necessarily need.

I've used Cyclops LED bulbs for years now; they are supposed to be a premium quality bulb.  The LED lifetime that is referenced by everyone is what you might get in a lab environment.  And besides, have you ever thought of how long 20,000 to 50,000 hours is?  Even in a lab...who has tested them for that amount of time?

At @ $25 a bulb, I figure I can take a chance.  If they don't work, I'm not out much money.  But from the feedback on the ST-Owners forum, they do work and work exceptionally well.

Here's a thought...try the cheaper bulb.  If it works for you, you've saved a lot of money and can pass the info on to others.  If it doesn't, let everyone know and then buy the $240 bulb.

Last thought...I'm not sold on the belief that if I pay more money, I get a better product.  I bought ADVMonster Model 30 aux lights for $40 a piece and used those on two different bikes.  Everyone on the NT-Owners forum said the Denali lights were far superior.  So another member and I found a dark parking lot and took pictures with a camera that allowed us to keep the settings the same for both bike's lights.  The cheaper ADVMonster lights blew the far more expensive Denali lights away.  It wasn't even close.

Chris

Those are all fair points, and I agree with a lot of it. I too am not convinced that more $$ always means a better product. That said, in my experience, there is a window in which you will usually find the best value and it's not at the cheapest or most expensive option.

I do have significant concerns about lifespan on a $240 pair of bulbs. anything but a long term failure could easily offset the benefits.

I think my biggest problem with buying a $25 set is that, as you have pointed out, lots of people have used lower end LED bulbs and those people have already pointed out the problems and limitations.

Perhaps these new ones are indeed an actual advance in technology. In the second video I showed you, there are frames with side by side comparisons of sever of the beam/flood patterns.

I dunno. I just was hoping someone had already tried them. I'd rather let a pioneer take the arrow.Then again, no guts no glory. ;)
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Offline Daboo

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 07:49:47 pm »
...I think my biggest problem with buying a $25 set is that, as you have pointed out, lots of people have used lower end LED bulbs and those people have already pointed out the problems and limitations.
Actually, on the less expensive sets, the folks who ride ST-1300s are finding they like the lights.  If you go through the thread, you'll see where Spiderman302 has taken pictures comparing light output under the same situation for competing bulbs.  That's why I'm impressed with the research and testing Spiderman302 has done.  He doesn't just take a picture of the front of the bike, but he takes a picture of the wall to show what the light output looks like.  Everyone knows the front of the bike with the headlights will look bright.  But what is the light pattern like...and he shows you.

Chris
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 09:35:30 am »
Good Post Daboo.
I just me-too'd on another LED post here yesterday, as I'm now looking for a replacement for my current Amazon set, that I paid a bit too much for.....lasted 2.5 years, but fell FAR short of the 50,000 promised hours lifespan.  ::)

I typically am a "you get what you pay for" kind of shopper, and unlike you - I bought into the Denali's vs. the ADVmonster's.  I have my reason, but mostly I wanted the support, service, warranty, and full wiring integration that Denali offered vs. ADVm. 

For LED headlamp bulbs.....I have YET to see ANY brand or manufacturer stand out amongst the herd, for longevity, cut-off, brightness, or quality.  Ive seen that dude that Rob refers to, and I think he's done an admirable job of differentiating himself amongst the crowd -- but he's hawking his OWN wares, and that makes him biased.
I'm gonna look at that ST-thread, and probably choose one of the better Amazon alternatives.
I used to buy PIAAs, back in the day, and they NEVER lasted more than a year.  Same thing here.....nobody is REALLY proving that their product is worth a premium -- YET.

Good info, good discussion.   :great:

gr
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Offline Rob

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2020, 02:59:58 pm »
I'm curious about this "lifetime warranty" they have listed.

They do not have a hours lifespan listed. It does say "last LED headlight bulbs you'll ever need!", which is a pretty bold statement.

I can't imagine that that they would replace the bulbs for free, for life, but that is the insinuation.

ETA**  The site says this: "Best Warranty: You can hit the road knowing that you’ll be backed with a lifetime warranty from here on out. If in the rare case something goes wrong, GTR Lighting will replace the product quickly."
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Offline Phil

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2020, 06:17:40 pm »
So far the original bulbs on my 2009 are going strong.

Offline Daboo

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2020, 06:55:36 pm »
I'm curious about this "lifetime warranty" they have listed.

They do not have a hours lifespan listed. It does say "last LED headlight bulbs you'll ever need!", which is a pretty bold statement.

I can't imagine that that they would replace the bulbs for free, for life, but that is the insinuation.

ETA**  The site says this: "Best Warranty: You can hit the road knowing that you’ll be backed with a lifetime warranty from here on out. If in the rare case something goes wrong, GTR Lighting will replace the product quickly."
I saw that "Lifetime Warranty" also.  I have to wonder about it; they do have in the fine print that they can change the terms of the warranty at any time.  And let's face it, most motorcycle owners, don't ride their bikes more than a couple thousand miles at best in a year.  I'm the owner you don't want to sell those bulbs to.  I put on 15,000 miles last year, which means those light bulbs would get a lot of hours on them.

To their benefit, they are charging you five times more than any of those three light sets I provided the links to above.  They can afford to suck up the cost for riders like me that actually might need a replacement.

Chris
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Offline Daboo

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Re: GTR Ultra 2 LED H4 bulbs
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 07:06:02 pm »
...

For LED headlamp bulbs.....I have YET to see ANY brand or manufacturer stand out amongst the herd, for longevity, cut-off, brightness, or quality.  Ive seen that dude that Rob refers to, and I think he's done an admirable job of differentiating himself amongst the crowd -- but he's hawking his OWN wares, and that makes him biased.
I'm gonna look at that ST-thread, and probably choose one of the better Amazon alternatives...
One of the things you'll find in the ST-Owners thread is that many of the bulbs are made by a company called Evitek...and rebranded under a different name for sale. 

I plan to check in on the ST-Owners thread again if (when) I need to replace my LED bulbs to see what the latest and greatest is.  Evitek has put out a couple different models so far.  What will be the latest when I'm ready to buy. 

I'm also a little concerned about the constant increase of lumens or brightness.  Two things bother me.  First the obvious brightness and the effect my headlight might make to an oncoming driver.  We've all felt like we saw the sun as a car came towards us and we couldn't see anything else till it passed.  The other is that a benefit of an LED headlight, is the lower electrical consumption.  As the brightness increases, the electrical draw does too.  At some point, the advantage is gone.

Chris
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