Author Topic: Max HP and Reliability  (Read 848 times)

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Offline Brian

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Max HP and Reliability
« on: July 15, 2017, 10:31:39 am »
Hello everyone,

I've had my 2008 Connie for 8 months now and have thought of going to a ZX14 for a little more excitement. However, at 57 years old, I don't think my old bones will handle the less than comfy riding position of my current ride....so here's my question....has anyone maxed out the motor performance with a full exhaust system such as Area P, ECU flash such as Area P from Steve, power commander (if needed after flash), etc.?  If so, what did you do, who installed it, was the power gain noticeable and lastly did it affect performance?  I have searched the forum and found bits and pieces but not the whole puzzle.  Any insight into how to proceed...yes step by step as far as what to start with and what should be done next would be greatly appreciated! I only have 3700 miles on her so I don't believe at this point the extra ponies would hurt anything....but your thoughts and experiences would also be welcomed.   :)

Thanks!

Brian

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Max HP and Reliability
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 02:30:02 pm »
First, have you looked at the dyno charts on my site for the full area P system?  There's a pretty significant difference between that and stock, and it really starts at 6000 rpm to 10,000 rpm.

  Second, a power commander on top of a totally polished flash? what would you hope to do... I can tell you, you're gonna ruin the fueling. There are multiple fuel maps, the pcv only works on one.

 I know a couple guys who have put zx14 throttle bodies on their bikes. It would appear to be good for about 5 hp at peak rpm. Both tried to "correct" the flash with a pcv and autotune. One put the stock TB's back on after awhile and claimed the whole zx14 TB attempt to be more trouble than it's worth. I think the other is still fiddling with it, it gives him something to do, but when I saw it running it still had flat spots and hesitations... I would never accept that.

  I am not sure where you want your power. Most folks think pulling big stuff on their engines means big power everwhere. that's not how it works, generally the more you bias power to the top rpms, the more low rpm and lower throttle setting power suffers. Even with the full area p system and my flash, the light throttle response is not as good as a stock system and my flash.

  BTW, because of VVT, we really can't change the cams in this bike. We need to embrace VVT for all it offers. If you want the widest available torque curve, the c-14 is your bike. If you want more power and a completely different bike, the maybe the zx14r. Steve

C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Max HP and Reliability
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 03:19:26 pm »
Brian, I speak from experience. I have a 2008 and I have done all variations of what your are saying:
Area P, ECU flash such as Area P from Steve, power commander   (there is a big difference between an AreaP and a FULL AreaP - the latter having a big pipe header)
I have also done all all  the Dyno runs to see the differences each time these add on have have been installed and the variations and how they affect the engine.
The big HP gains are to  had with the Full AreaP and Steve's flash which is what I have. The Power Commander V has now become obsolete because of Steve Flash so dont even bother thinking about PCV.
The problem with the above setup is the midrange loss.  There is no getting around this. If you take a bone stock bike with Steve;'s Flash ( or a slipon with Steve's flash) the stock head pipe  will always out pull my Full AreaP/Steve' Flash because the stock head pipe produces more torque between 2k and 6k RPM- ALWAYS!
Now if you like to rev your engine and keep it above 6 to 7k to redline  then the Full AreaP will TAKE OFF and leave them behind  and with a lot of noise I might add. A lot of noise!  To me it sounds sweet-- not so much if your behind me.

So my suggestion to you- Start off with JUST Steve's flash and maybe a slip-on for the looks and sounds and try that first. While your enjoying the riding and your NEW Concours  engine because it will be NEW to you- go ahead   price out a Full AreaP and whats involved installing it and find some some one to test ride a Full AreaP- mine if you want.
Second suggestion: Take the money you save from the Full AreaP   and fix the suspension. In my opinion the stock suspension/shock valving  is not very good.  (I have some other words to use but I dont want to upset  others here) 
Look into a Penske rear  shock and AK20's for the front. Call and talk to a company called Traxxion Dynamics- it is free to talk.   You always need better suspension first before you go faster and there is  massive room for improvement to be done in this area.


Normally aspirated engines have perpetual turbo lag
2000 Red C10 1052 kit
2008  C14 Silver Dammit Full AreaP- Flies are put back in SISF_Flash
2011  KLR650   688 piston ported and polished
2011  KTM 530    This thing is FUN!!

Offline Brian

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Re: Max HP and Reliability
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 03:23:11 pm »
Steve, thanks for your response and yes I have been on your site and reviewed all the numbers.  However, numbers are one thing and actual seat of the pants is another. That's why I was looking for member input as to their experience with mild to wild mods. My drive train is stock except for a 18" Delkevic oval carbon muffler and link pipe.  I very rarely take it above 8k, so my response to your thoughts would be low to mid range power.  With that being said, it sounds like you are leaning toward the stock system (and my slip-on I would assume) and your flash... correct?  Thanks, Brian.


Offline Brian

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Re: Max HP and Reliability
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 03:25:47 pm »
Mike, it sounds like you have done the research I was looking for and my stock system with Steve's flash would be more in line with my riding style.  I also appreciate the info on the suspension.  I will start looking into that in addition to Steve's flash.  Thanks!

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Max HP and Reliability
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2017, 03:50:00 pm »
Brian, you've made the classic mistake... asking for more hp, yet only taking the bike to 8000 rpm.

 HP is a function of torque x RPM. So increasing the torque and/ or increasing rpm is how you get more HP. In your immediate quest for HP. bring the bike to 9000 rpm, there's probably another 10 hp or so to be gained from 8 to 9k.

 OTOH,  if you're riding lower rpms and not reaching for 10k, then you don't need stuff to be much bigger... for the most part larger pipes / intake / cams will mean higher rpm power increases, and lower rpm losses.

  HP is fun, but on the street lower rpm torque increases are really what motivates the bike. Roll out of a corner at 4 k and roll into the throttle hard... you need torque. Roll out at 8k and throttle hard... you need HP. So WHICH do you need? Honestly assess your riding style before you spend any money. An educated customer is a happy customer.

 Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Lurch71

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Re: Max HP and Reliability
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2017, 10:19:55 pm »
Brian,

I'm new to this bike.  I have a 2017 and ride between 4-5k rpm.  Leaving lights and intersections, I noticed the fun starts at about 7-8k rpm.  This bike pulls hard at about 8k to redline, and you'll find yourself greatly exceeding the speed limit.  My two cents would be to save your money for tires and miscellaneous Farkles.  :)) 

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Max HP and Reliability
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 02:05:41 am »
Brian,

I'm new to this bike.  I have a 2017 and ride between 4-5k rpm.  Leaving lights and intersections, I noticed the fun starts at about 7-8k rpm.  This bike pulls hard at about 8k to redline, and you'll find yourself greatly exceeding the speed limit.  My two cents would be to save your money for tires and miscellaneous Farkles.  :))

You really ought to study the dyno charts. The engine does not pull to redline, in fact it's nosed over and losing HP after 9000 rpm. It takes a full exhaust change to spread that to redline, and even then the power holds the same and doesn't climb past 9000 rpm. I've attached a stock vs flashed dyno chart, stock is red. you see I don't even pull much past 9 grand because I know the show is over.  Steve
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 02:14:32 am by Steve in Sunny Fla »
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home