Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Accessories C14 => Topic started by: mrclean on January 14, 2014, 02:06:02 am

Title: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: mrclean on January 14, 2014, 02:06:02 am
Just installed the bearings and one of the bearings is sticking out of the shifter approximately 1/16" of an inch, I can measure it with calipers to get an exact measurement. Is this normal? Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks, Ken
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: mrclean on January 14, 2014, 03:28:27 am
Went ahead and installed it after giving it some though. The lit tle bit it was sticking out is actually a good thing so the shifter doesn't drag against the mount, although with the two supplied washers it wouldn't anyway. Murph is a smart guy!  :beerchug:
Also raised my shifter up a little to reduce the angleon my ankle. Very e asy job thanks to the great instructions!
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: Racerboy on January 14, 2014, 04:23:22 am
Did it make a difference to the shifting action?
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: rob on January 14, 2014, 10:51:08 am
Personally I think it's one of those "in the head" differences then an actual measurable one....but for $20 it's worth it.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: mrclean on January 14, 2014, 11:49:08 am
I'll be riding today and let you know, it was raining last night so I didn't get to ride.  :great:
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: Gypsy JR on January 14, 2014, 12:28:06 pm
Personally I think it's one of those "in the head" differences then an actual measurable one....but for $20 it's worth it.

Technically, there should be a difference in feel. The OEM has bushings, the one Murph sells has bearings. So it should be smoother. Can a human feel the difference? Don't know, but I have one still waiting to be put on, and I guess I'll find out.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: JeffP on January 14, 2014, 02:10:32 pm
I installed this farkle last spring. Not sure if it's all in my head or not, but I think it DOES shift much smoother.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: rcannon409 on January 14, 2014, 02:24:51 pm
I bought one for my Concours 14 and really liked it. When I bought my Ninja 1000, I was able to send Murph the measurements and he built  a kit for that bike  as well.

Worth it? Yes.  It eliminates a lot of slop from the shift linkage.  Not everything. You still have  a little play in the Hemi-joints, but it helps a great deal.  In a way, its similar to the advantage you get from 500.00 dollar rearsets on a sportbike.   Plus, it eliminates wear on the aluminum pedal as it pivots around the bolt holding the lever in place.  Its like that feel of having high quality brake and clutch levers. Some dont mind floppy levers, but I hate them.

My old sv 650 had so much play in the shift lever, you could move it up and down 1/2 inch before it did anything. The bearing kit would have stopped this from wearing so badly after 25,000 miles.

Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: mrclean on January 14, 2014, 04:10:08 pm
Just went for a twenty mile hop and it does seem smoother, now I just need to take up some of the playing the shifter. I have about an inch of travel while shifting. I'm assuming I adjust only one rod end to decrease the travel?
Overall $21 well spent!  ;D
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: rcannon409 on January 15, 2014, 02:08:02 pm
You cannot really adjust the overall travel.  You can adjust how high, or low the shifter sits in relation to your foot.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: seagiant1 on January 17, 2014, 05:44:22 pm
Hi,
      I put in the kit and was dissapointed in the bolt to ID of the bearings! If you don't have a press fit to the inside and out side of the bearing then you are still using the old "bushing" idea and not really utilizing the bearing!

  To fix this I loctited the inside bearing race with the install bolt and all is well! A better but more expensive idea would be a custom od bolt to actually fit the inside bearing  race,instead of something off shelf!
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: BDF on January 17, 2014, 05:48:19 pm
I have not seen one of these kits in the flesh but as I understand it, the bolt has a flange that only contacts the inner races- is that correct? If so, even though the inner race is not a tight fit on the bolt, the assembly will still act properly as a rolling bearing because the inner races are pinched by the end force of the bolt when it is tightened.

Brian

Hi,
      I put in the kit and was dissapointed in the bolt to ID of the bearings! If you don't have a press fit to the inside and out side of the bearing then you are still using the old "bushing" idea and not really utilizing the bearing!

  To fix this I loctited the inside bearing race with the install bolt and all is well! A better but more expensive idea would be a custom od bolt to actually fit the inside bearing  race,instead of something off shelf!
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: The Pope on January 17, 2014, 09:38:31 pm
I have not seen one of these kits in the flesh but as I understand it, the bolt has a flange that only contacts the inner races- is that correct? If so, even though the inner race is not a tight fit on the bolt, the assembly will still act properly as a rolling bearing because the inner races are pinched by the end force of the bolt when it is tightened.

Brian

You are correct Brian. I've had this kit on my bike for ruffly 20k miles. IMHO it helps. Now to what extent, that's a rider perceived thing like seats. But for me, I'd do it again.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: seagiant1 on January 18, 2014, 06:34:55 pm
I have not seen one of these kits in the flesh but as I understand it, the bolt has a flange that only contacts the inner races- is that correct? If so, even though the inner race is not a tight fit on the bolt, the assembly will still act properly as a rolling bearing because the inner races are pinched by the end force of the bolt when it is tightened.

Brian

You are correct Brian. I've had this kit on my bike for ruffly 20k miles. IMHO it helps. Now to what extent, that's a rider perceived thing like seats. But for me, I'd do it again.

Hi,
      I'm not putting the kit down well worth the money and IMO is a better MT! However I would be remiss not to be honest in my "review"!

  There is no "flange" it is just a bolt like you buy at ACE Hardware. I don't see this as giving a better fit to the inside race of the bearing with just a little tension. The "gap filling" loctite works great and makes the kit work as it should and feels smoother to me!

  Oh yea, I'm a Marine Engineer,which dosen't mean anything but I do know which end of the wrench to hold! ;D







Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: mrclean on January 18, 2014, 07:26:24 pm
I have not seen one of these kits in the flesh but as I understand it, the bolt has a flange that only contacts the inner races- is that correct? If so, even though the inner race is not a tight fit on the bolt, the assembl







y will still act properly as a rolling bearing because the inner races are pinched by the end force of the bolt when it is tightened.

Brian

You are correct Brian. I've had this kit on my bike for ruffly 20k miles. IMHO it helps. Now to what extent, that's a rider perceived thing like seats. But for me, I'd do it again.

Hi,
      I'm not putting the kit down well worth the money and IMO is a better MT! However I would be remiss not to be honest in my "review"!

  There is no "flange" it is just a bolt like you buy at ACE Hardware. I don't see this as giving a better fit to the inside race of the bearing with just a little tension. The "gap filling" loctite works great and makes the kit work as it should and feels smoother to me!

  Oh yea, I'm a Marine Engineer,which dosen't mean anything but I do know which end of the wrench to hold! ;D

I always hold the opposite end I'm about to throw  :))
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: fartymarty on January 18, 2014, 08:05:38 pm
  There is no "flange" it is just a bolt like you buy at ACE Hardware.
Murph's had two bolts available, a button head one and a flanged one (Murph calls it a washer head bolt) or at least it appears flanged to me, but I'm no engineer.

Quote from: Murph's Bearinged Up Shifter pdf file
Our parts from start to finish are: Bolthead, Stainless Steel Shim, bearing, bushing,bearing, bushing,bearing, stainless steel shim.

I have not seen one of these kits in the flesh but as I understand it, the bolt has a flange stainless steel shim that only contacts the inner races- is that correct? If so, even though the inner race is not a tight fit on the bolt, the assembly will still act properly as a rolling bearing because the inner races are pinched by the end force of the bolt when it is tightened.
FIFY Brian.

Please note that Murph has a NOTE about the the OUTER races being a possible problem, not the inner races.

Quote from: Murph's website
NOTE!! We have discovered that the tolerance on the bore for the sleeve varies enough that some shifters do not have a friction fit between the shifter and the bearings , so please note YOU MAY HAVE TO LOCK-TITE the bearings to the shifter. We have also discontinued supplying the kit with the small Button head screw, and only recommend using the washer head bolt supplied with the kit.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: BDF on January 18, 2014, 11:44:06 pm
I hear ya', and as I said, I do not have and have not seen one of these things 'in the flesh' but have seen photos.

I was merely addressing the thought that the inner races had to be a tight fit to the bolt (or whatever they ride against) to make the bearings function as roller bearings; the bolt head, flange, washer, or whatever else pinches the inner races together will prevent them from turning and that alone will allow the bearings to function correctly. That was my only point.

Brian

Hi,
      I'm not putting the kit down well worth the money and IMO is a better MT! However I would be remiss not to be honest in my "review"!

  There is no "flange" it is just a bolt like you buy at ACE Hardware. I don't see this as giving a better fit to the inside race of the bearing with just a little tension. The "gap filling" loctite works great and makes the kit work as it should and feels smoother to me!

  Oh yea, I'm a Marine Engineer,which dosen't mean anything but I do know which end of the wrench to hold! ;D
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: BDF on January 18, 2014, 11:47:03 pm
Interesting. Makes sense though as this shifter would be made with some clearance designed into it while anything using rolling bearings would be a very close (slip fit) fit or an actual interference fit (press fit). The LocTite idea is probably as good as anything else; removable too if the end of the shifter mechanism was heated and the bearings pushed out later if they needed to be replaced.

Brian

Please note that Murph has a NOTE about the the OUTER races being a possible problem, not the inner races.

Quote from: Murph's website
NOTE!! We have discovered that the tolerance on the bore for the sleeve varies enough that some shifters do not have a friction fit between the shifter and the bearings , so please note YOU MAY HAVE TO LOCK-TITE the bearings to the shifter. We have also discontinued supplying the kit with the small Button head screw, and only recommend using the washer head bolt supplied with the kit.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: Pistole on January 19, 2014, 12:51:07 am
there is so much play in the two ball-socket joints that I can't imagine what would putting some bearings on the pedal's pivot would improve ?

.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: fartymarty on January 19, 2014, 02:27:54 am
there is so much play in the two ball-socket joints that I can't imagine what would putting some bearings on the pedal's pivot would improve ?

Maybe nothing, I certainly noticed nothing different (but then my wife insists that I'm insensitive). My C14 is still under 20,000 miles so I'll report back at 100,000+ miles after I've compared mine to other high milers that didn't do the mod.

 
Quote from: from Murph's site
My name is Joe Fecher, and like many of you who made it here I own a Kawasaki Concours 14.

I went to lube the shifter one day, and noticed there was a cheap plastic bushing which had already worn with only 1600 miles on the bike. A quick measurement of the shifter body followed, and I knew there were bearings that would fit. The improvement from this mod is quicker, more precise, and consistent shifting. Murph has sourced parts and put together a good kit based on my original mod, and he has my blessing.

The stock setup is a plastic sleeve that is susceptible to wear and additional play (looseness).  With the sealed bearings, you get a tighter shifter which is more precise, less friction for easier shifting and more consistency.  I know it sounds like a lot of fluff, but it really made a difference in mine and I did it with only 3k on the bike....
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: nando on January 19, 2014, 04:58:39 am
I put a Murph bearing on my shifter...but I thought we were all doing that to contribute to a Children Foundation...no?
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: rcannon409 on January 20, 2014, 01:02:24 pm
As mentioned before, the bearings wont get rid of the play in the linkage, but the side to side motion, of the shift lever, is gone.  The side to side play grows as the standard plastic bushing wears.  If its assembled correctly, using the proper supplied pieces, the bearings do function.  I had to use some of the loctite stud compound on the Ninja kit, but the c14 kit was an excellent press fit.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: Boston Bagger on August 13, 2014, 05:33:52 pm
Has anyone broken down the list a specific parts needed to make this kit?  It’s just a couple of small bearings, spacers and a couple of specific washers. 

I made one of these kits for my BMW K1200GT and an entire tube of bearings is something like $12.  It’s not the price at Murphs, but rather, I tend to want pure Stainless, including the bolt. 

Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: Gypsy JR on August 13, 2014, 08:43:56 pm
Has anyone broken down the list a specific parts needed to make this kit?  It’s just a couple of small bearings, spacers and a couple of specific washers. 

I made one of these kits for my BMW K1200GT and an entire tube of bearings is something like $12.  It’s not the price at Murphs, but rather, I tend to want pure Stainless, including the bolt.

You want to be careful what you screw a stainless steel bolt into. You can have issues if the bolt hole threads are aluminum and not steel.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: el paso on August 21, 2014, 02:08:39 am
I put Murph's bearing shifter kit on tonight and it seems to take the side to side slop out of the linkage. I'm anxious to go for a ride and try her out. Like somebody else said for $20 I'll try it.   
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: Boston Bagger on August 22, 2014, 02:00:12 pm
Parts List for Making Your Own Bearing Upshifter Kit

(5) 8mm x 14mm x 4mm wide bearings off eBay or from VXB.com 

Here is an example of a 10 pack:   
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Alvey/MR148ZZ?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvLGfBRDfkrr19KDS-7YBEiQA8CoFJ76VvgINk20rmoBs38oV_6t56ZI0V6KhqX9HYzjYa48aAhG_8P8HAQ (http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Alvey/MR148ZZ?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvLGfBRDfkrr19KDS-7YBEiQA8CoFJ76VvgINk20rmoBs38oV_6t56ZI0V6KhqX9HYzjYa48aAhG_8P8HAQ)

The standard metric bolt shank is 8 mm, and 14mm is the diameter of the shifter. 

I’m using a stainless steel standard metric bolt M8 x 1.25 x 40mm in place of the stock bolt. 

Murph made spacers—I just used 5 bearings and never had any issues with the shifter migrating sideways. 

This is an example of what it looks like from my last bike - a BMW. 
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 03, 2016, 05:38:28 pm
Parts List for Making Your Own Bearing Upshifter Kit

(5) 8mm x 14mm x 4mm wide bearings off eBay or from VXB.com 

Here is an example of a 10 pack:   
[url]http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Alvey/MR148ZZ?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvLGfBRDfkrr19KDS-7YBEiQA8CoFJ76VvgINk20rmoBs38oV_6t56ZI0V6KhqX9HYzjYa48aAhG_8P8HAQ[/url] ([url]http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Alvey/MR148ZZ?gclid=Cj0KEQjwvLGfBRDfkrr19KDS-7YBEiQA8CoFJ76VvgINk20rmoBs38oV_6t56ZI0V6KhqX9HYzjYa48aAhG_8P8HAQ[/url])

The standard metric bolt shank is 8 mm, and 14mm is the diameter of the shifter. 

I’m using a stainless steel standard metric bolt M8 x 1.25 x 40mm in place of the stock bolt. 

Murph made spacers—I just used 5 bearings and never had any issues with the shifter migrating sideways. 

This is an example of what it looks like from my last bike - a BMW.


seeing as someone linked this in a recent post, I have a couple comments...... ::)

stacking multiple bearings without spacers, simply creats a bushing, when you tighten the bolt, it pulls both the inner and outer races up solid...
what benefit is this??? none.

secondly, your link is for shielded bearings, not sealed bearings... shielded bearings are worthless in this application, and you still have to buy 10 @ $24 which exceded the murphkit price right off....
now add in the cost factor for stainless steel, which seemed to be your criteria, and proper seals.....
the price went up substantially.....

http://www.vxb.com/8x14x4-Stainless-Steel-Miniature-Pack-of-10-p/kit8945.htm (http://www.vxb.com/8x14x4-Stainless-Steel-Miniature-Pack-of-10-p/kit8945.htm)

finally, posting a cheaper, and non functioning alternative, to an industry members product, is just plain rude.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: IAStan on June 06, 2016, 11:31:58 pm
I put it on because I figured the plastic sleeve would wear out.  This should prevent that and keep the shifter working correctly much longer.  Pretty cheap insurance.
Title: Re: Murphs bearing shifter kit
Post by: rcannon409 on June 07, 2016, 02:53:54 pm
I make my own things as often as I can. Its  a great way to learn and save money. However, theres a point where it makes no sense, and I think Phil found it. Plus, stacking five bearings is not a smart idea as MOB mentioned.

Unless I had bearings in stock, the amount of money saved here will be , what, maybe 8.00 total?

Murph only charges 21.00 for the entire kit.  If it were 42000.00, and I needed several, sure.

Its a good mod, and worth while to do. Some of the play is eliminated in the linkage. My old sv 650 had 25,000 miles on it and the shift bolt had a ton of play in it. This eliminates that wear point.

As far as stainless hardware goes, I suppose its awesome to have 1 stainless bolt in the bike?