Author Topic: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)  (Read 715 times)

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Offline Martin165

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Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« on: June 26, 2017, 01:58:40 am »
I am here to post some issues I have encountered to help other people with their installs. The initial install went very smooth (2012 Concours), up to the point of connecting the VSS to the rostra servo grey lead. When I connected it, the speedo did not work and the rostra (in diagnostic mode) did not see the signal when the rear wheel was turned. Up to this point, everything is connected (as I opted for the power and engage led on my control) except the clutch cut-off. Everything was done and working properly (including the brake cut-off) and now I am scratching my head.

So now, at this point, I have 2 issues. Issue one, the speedo does not work when I connect the servo grey lead to the pink VSS wire on the VSS pigtail (and the rostra unit does not sense the wheel speed). Issue two, KTRC is now showing error. It will not go away when I power down the bike and/or disconnect the vss lead from the rostra grey wire. The KTRC error only shows when I have put the bike in gear and have disengaged the clutch. I am thinking (since the front wheel is stationary) that this is normal.

I ran through the wiring diagrams for both the cruise control and my bike....left scratching my head. FIgured the the grey wire (from the rostra servo) split off into two legs. That second leg (I figured) is sucking up the signal I need to send to the unit. So I cut the extra leg. Voila, it now senses the wheel speed when I turn the rear wheel.

So, I started the bike (while on the center stand), put it in gear (5th) powered on the CC, put the bike up to 40 mph and engaged the CC. The bike surged up to 85 mph, then went down to 25 mph, then surged again to 85 mph and at that point I disengaged the CC. I checked all of my connections and the dip switch settings and I am left scratching my head. Bear in mind the clutch cut-off has not yet been connected, but everything else is.

I have installed CC on my cars when I was younger (took me about 3.5 hours for the first install) as I have installed cc on a few of my cars many moons ago. I have been working on this (off and on; when I can find the time) for the last few weeks. I have spent about 7 hours on this so far. I am stuck.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why it is surging so badly?

I want to thank Bob Embrey for his assistance. He was wonderful and helpful (thanks Bob).

Martin
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 02:13:25 am by Martin165 »
2012 C14
Calgary, AB

Offline C14lvr

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 02:33:37 am »
Martin,
It sounds like you're good to go to me. Make sure you test this...
Bike off, key on, apply either brake. You should hear your new brake relay you installed "click". Ground should pass through the relay to the Rostra with no brake, and open when brake's applied.
In diagnostic mode, look at the red led light on the servo. Apply a brake, should light the red light up.
As you said, roll the rear wheel, it should start flashing. Check all the lights on the switch. Backlights, power on, and engaged light should all work when test riding. After hooking the clutch wire back up once diagnostic's completed, during your test ride, with the cruise engaged, pulling in on the clutch, or applying either brake, or pressing the power button on the switch should turn the cruise off.

#1- When you run the bike with the rear wheel off the ground on the center stand, you WILL get the KTRC light. Normal for this to happen. When you kill the bike and start it again, it should reset.
KTRC is traction control. With the rear wheel off the ground, and no rolling resistance, the bike's RW speed sensor and the CPU think there's a problem.

#2- It is normal for the Rostra to surge up and down like that with the rear wheel off the ground.
It won't do that when you test ride it under normal road conditions. The Rostra tries to adjust cable slack back and forth internally via an electric motor and a chip board. It recieves info from the bike's vss, and tries to control the speed using calculations. With no rolling resistance, it speeds up, then cuts, then speeds up... trying to compensate. It is a bit shocking, the first time you do one and this happens! But it's not a problem. If you're at this point, you have a working cruise! Woohoo!

Sounds like you got the vss issue solved. Hook the clutch wire up and test ride it! Should be good to go!
I don't advise trying to set the cruise while either going up or downhill. Flat and level, at speeds above 35 mph, and in higher gears... (5th or OD.) You can set it in 4th, but you can get some surging issues at times doing that. Get it on the highway, roll it up to highway speed, set it, should be good. It should not surge. It is normal for some slight surging at times to occur, but not a lot.
You have to remember, the Rostra is a universal kit, designed for a much heavier vehicle. But they do work well. If you have big surge issues, go back and check throttle slack, the angle the Rostra cable approaches the throttle cam, and if you added an extra arm to the connection point, which helps.

Thanks for the kind words, and happy I could help!
Enjoy!
Bob
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:00:43 am by C14lvr »
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Offline Martin165

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 02:52:33 am »
Thanks Bob. Yes, the brake circuit works perfectly and shuts down the system as soon as you hit either brake. I ran it through the proper process (which you outlined again) and it passed with flying colors.

Thanks again, I thought there was something I missed (with the surging and all).

Martin
2012 C14
Calgary, AB

Offline Zarticus

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 12:41:51 pm »
The surging is the traction control kicking in & out. The traction control senses the speed difference between the front & rear tire, That's how it knows the rear is losing traction because it spins faster than the front wheel when in a traction loss situation. The system then cut's power to the engine. The surging is the power being reduced & then turned back on in a continuous loop until it senses the same speed is returned on both tires.  With the bike on the center stand & the front tire not spinning the traction control is automatically going to be on. Try turning off the traction control manually before putting it in gear & then test it  :beerchug:
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Offline Martin165

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 04:41:06 pm »
Thanks Zarticus, I will do that.

Next, connect the clutch cut-off.

Martin
2012 C14
Calgary, AB

Offline Martin165

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2017, 12:51:55 am »
Cruise works great. Only a few hic-ups. The directions posted work very well (even if you own a 2012 bike). Very smooth....I am going to enjoy this farkle!!!

Hats off to Bob!!

Martin
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Offline BDF

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2017, 02:18:24 am »
The surging is present on '08 and '09 models w/out traction control and is a result of relatively small but jerky movements of the Rostra on a very high powered vehicle. The key is not to test the system on the centerstand because it absolutely will 'hammer' ON and OFF regarding the throttle. Once the bike is on the ground, in a high gear and the CC engaged, it will work properly.

The only reason to test on the centerstand, if used at all and I do not recommend it, is to make sure the loop will close and the Rostra will actually engage. At the first sign of the Rostra actuating the throttle, it should be disengaged and the motorcycle NOT used that way with the CC again. Just button it up and ride it for further testing / use.

Brian

The surging is the traction control kicking in & out. The traction control senses the speed difference between the front & rear tire, That's how it knows the rear is losing traction because it spins faster than the front wheel when in a traction loss situation. The system then cut's power to the engine. The surging is the power being reduced & then turned back on in a continuous loop until it senses the same speed is returned on both tires.  With the bike on the center stand & the front tire not spinning the traction control is automatically going to be on. Try turning off the traction control manually before putting it in gear & then test it  :beerchug:
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Offline Zarticus

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2017, 02:44:41 am »
The surging is present on '08 and '09 models w/out traction control and is a result of relatively small but jerky movements of the Rostra on a very high powered vehicle. The key is not to test the system on the centerstand because it absolutely will 'hammer' ON and OFF regarding the throttle. Once the bike is on the ground, in a high gear and the CC engaged, it will work properly.

The only reason to test on the centerstand, if used at all and I do not recommend it, is to make sure the loop will close and the Rostra will actually engage. At the first sign of the Rostra actuating the throttle, it should be disengaged and the motorcycle NOT used that way with the CC again. Just button it up and ride it for further testing / use.

Brian
When I tested mine on the center stand it did the same thing, When I shut off the traction control it did not do it  :motonoises:
The surging is the traction control kicking in & out. The traction control senses the speed difference between the front & rear tire, That's how it knows the rear is losing traction because it spins faster than the front wheel when in a traction loss situation. The system then cut's power to the engine. The surging is the power being reduced & then turned back on in a continuous loop until it senses the same speed is returned on both tires.  With the bike on the center stand & the front tire not spinning the traction control is automatically going to be on. Try turning off the traction control manually before putting it in gear & then test it  :beerchug:
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1986 Honda V65 Magna, Black
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1983 Honda V45 Sabre, Red

Offline Martin165

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2017, 01:03:37 am »
Thanks for your input. The cruise works great and is very smooth from 3rd gear on up. It is a little jerky in second and I do not want to try 1st (what is the point, the whole purpose is for highway cruise speeds).

The support I have received from here has been awesome. I really, really appreciate the knowledge sharing that takes place here. :beerchug:

The rostra I purchased from Murph's had 2 grey wires  coming off of the servo. Well, sort of; one grey coming out of the servo, but then split into 2 legs about 4" out from the servo. If you do not cut that second leg, the speedo does not work, nor does the vss signal reach the servo (as it is absorbed into that second leg IMHO). Once I cut that second leg voila, it worked perfectly. I wonder if that is a recent change/mod that rostra made? As I purchased it last January. That took me several hours to figure out why it was not working (many of them looking at wiring schematics). After finding no fault, I came to the conclusion that the second grey wire leg must be cut.  :great:

Just something to share with everyone, as I am sure this will snag a few other people in the future.

Martin
2012 C14
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Re: Rostra Cruise Control (Install issues)
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2017, 02:19:07 pm »
What really helps with the Rostra is go ignore what is in the harness, especially all the connectors, and go all the way back to the actuator; at the yellow harness connector, there are ten wires coming from the unit IIRC. It is only those wires that are needed for an install on a C-14, and not all of them either. A color is only used one time, no two wires are the same color (at the actuator). The wires needed can be tapped into anyplace along their length but any connectors or branches along the way should be ignores. Those are for specific installation on other vehicles.

You should not have to remove any extra wires in the harness. What did that wire you cut off connect to? If nothing, which is what should be the case, then will not have any effect on the Rostra.

Glad to hear you have yours working and congrats. The only reason I mention anything about the wiring is with the thought that others may read this and start clipping wires to 'make it work', and sooner or later, they will remove a wire that is needed.

There are also different methods to install a Rosta on a C-14, and it seems that most of them work. But what cannot be done is to mix up the different directions; mine have the VSS tying in to the pink wire in the bike's VSS sensor harness. Someone else has chosen to use a different colored wire and tie into the main harness on the bike, above the VSS harness connector. Both methods work fine but if they are mixed up, and the pink wire from the main harness is tapped, it will not only not work, it 'lets the smoke' out of the VSS and it will have to be replaced.

Anyway, glad it worked out and enjoy it- the only downside is that it makes you look for a CC on every other bike you will ride. :-)

Brian

Thanks for your input. The cruise works great and is very smooth from 3rd gear on up. It is a little jerky in second and I do not want to try 1st (what is the point, the whole purpose is for highway cruise speeds).

The support I have received from here has been awesome. I really, really appreciate the knowledge sharing that takes place here. :beerchug:

The rostra I purchased from Murph's had 2 grey wires  coming off of the servo. Well, sort of; one grey coming out of the servo, but then split into 2 legs about 4" out from the servo. If you do not cut that second leg, the speedo does not work, nor does the vss signal reach the servo (as it is absorbed into that second leg IMHO). Once I cut that second leg voila, it worked perfectly. I wonder if that is a recent change/mod that rostra made? As I purchased it last January. That took me several hours to figure out why it was not working (many of them looking at wiring schematics). After finding no fault, I came to the conclusion that the second grey wire leg must be cut.  :great:

Just something to share with everyone, as I am sure this will snag a few other people in the future.

Martin
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