Author Topic: Rostra Cruise Control Surging  (Read 10371 times)

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Offline jawneelogik

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Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« on: February 25, 2016, 10:32:51 pm »
Hi all,

I am new here.  This is my first post.

I've just finished installing a Rostra 250-1223 cruise unit on my 2010 ZG1400ABS.  My physical install is quite a bit different than most others I have seen on this forum, but my wiring and switch settings are according to Fred Harmon's excellent diagram.

The diagnostic test went well, but when I took the bike out for its first ride, the controller engaged then immediately started surging violently.  I was in 3rd gear only going 40, but it was a bit tense.  Hitting the brake disengaged it instantly so no serious jeopardy.

I tried increasing the gain from its lowest starting setting to the highest, but it seemed to make no difference.  I would prefer to not start randomly experimenting with switch settings given that the suggest settings have been reported to give such excellent response.

Any suggestions?  I have a few pics of my install if anyone wants to see

Thx. John
2010 Kawi ZG1400ABS, 2000 Suzi Bandito 1200s
1985 Suzi GS1150, 1982 Suzi GS1100
1978 Suzi GS1000, 1975 Kawi 900
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline Sailor_chic

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 10:56:08 pm »
Hello John and welcome to the forum. 
From what I understand, the Rostra isn't really designed got this application, so its borderline on bring able to set it. The settings on the Rostra aren't specific enough to pick up the pulses from our speed sensor With my Rostra, I found that it works best in 6th gear, at speeds 50+, or it will surge as well.
Hope this helps you 
Nicole     Port St Lucie, FL.
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2006 Vmax
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Offline MikeB_CA

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 10:59:16 pm »
Hi all,

I am new here.  This is my first post.

I've just finished installing a Rostra 250-1223 cruise unit on my 2010 ZG1400ABS.  My physical install is quite a bit different than most others I have seen on this forum, but my wiring and switch settings are according to Fred Harmon's excellent diagram.

The diagnostic test went well, but when I took the bike out for its first ride, the controller engaged then immediately started surging violently.  I was in 3rd gear only going 40, but it was a bit tense.  Hitting the brake disengaged it instantly so no serious jeopardy.

I tried increasing the gain from its lowest starting setting to the highest, but it seemed to make no difference.  I would prefer to not start randomly experimenting with switch settings given that the suggest settings have been reported to give such excellent response.

Any suggestions?  I have a few pics of my install if anyone wants to see

Thx. John

yep...what she said! Mine surged too when I used it at slower speeds. Take it up to highway speeds and set it and you should be fine. I use mine when at 70mph or above :great:

Offline C14lvr

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 11:57:29 pm »
Yes, it will surge like that in 3rd gear. Use it in top gear, speeds above 33 mph.

If for some reason it still surges at highway speeds in top gear, and on level roads...
Please post your dip switch settings for us.

There are some switch changes that might help, in certain situations...
2011 C14 ABS (current bike)
1982 Yamaha XJ1100J (sold)
1979 Yamaha XS11 (3200 original miles)
In the warden's words from Cool Hand Luke;
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Offline jawneelogik

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2016, 03:40:26 am »
Thx much for your replies.

I will get er out to the freeway for a high speed run, but was wanting to just confirm correct operation before I finished reassembling the whole left side of the bike.

My switch settings started out the same as what Fred Harmon suggests:  001111000100 (sw #1 is leftmost).  I have tried increasing the gain (sw 1, 2) and it is now on its highest setting.  It made no measurable difference that I could detect.

I contacted Rostra tech support, but they almost refused to talk to me after I told them it was on a bike.  I was trying to find out what the setup timer values were in relation to the number of cylinders, etc.  Apparently, the 8cyl low setting is best for our application, but I don't understand why that would be so.  Why wouldn't one of the 4cyl settings be best?

How important is the issue with the throttle cable travel distance?  I measured mine at 22mm.  It required the addition of 3 beads and a connector to achieve the prescribed 41mm as per the install manual.  From what I have seen of others' installs, very little attention is paid to this.  In fact, when I first tried the system out, I had no bead chain, but only used the "loop cable" connected directly to the controller cable then to the throttle body.

Thanks for your help. John
2010 Kawi ZG1400ABS, 2000 Suzi Bandito 1200s
1985 Suzi GS1150, 1982 Suzi GS1100
1978 Suzi GS1000, 1975 Kawi 900
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline jawneelogik

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2016, 03:44:26 am »
I've tried a couple of times to upload some pictures, but without any success.  What am I doing wrong?
2010 Kawi ZG1400ABS, 2000 Suzi Bandito 1200s
1985 Suzi GS1150, 1982 Suzi GS1100
1978 Suzi GS1000, 1975 Kawi 900
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline Bigfoot_16

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2016, 12:13:38 pm »
John, you should only have about 1/16" of slack in the Rostra cable that connects to the throttle. This isn't documented at all in Brian Felice's guide. The Rostra manual says to have lots of slack, but that simply doesn't work well on a C14.
Jim

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Offline C14lvr

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2016, 01:15:27 pm »
John, you should only have about 1/16" of slack in the Rostra cable that connects to the throttle. This isn't documented at all in Brian Felice's guide. The Rostra manual says to have lots of slack, but that simply doesn't work well on a C14.

+1!

For pictures, you need to go through a 3rd party, like Photobucket, etc. Once you load your pic there, copy the link and post that in a thread here.

You need a little bit of slack, but not a lot. The more slack you have, the more the servo has to roll up, the more engagement time there is. Too much slack can also exhibit surging, as the servo tries to compensate.

Fred, BDF, or some other wiser folks may be able to answer the specific reason why the 8 cyl. Switch setting is used instead of the 4 cyl, but I believe it was chosen during initial trial and error, based on the bike's weight vs. a car's weight.

You have to remember, the Rostra is a universal CC system that was designed for cars. We've just learned how to adapt it for a bike. Rostra doesn't like giving much advice to us, due to liability issues.

But, recently, I had a tough problem on a friends BMW I had put one on 3 years ago, and Rostra was great to talk the issues through with me... (after they learned I had installed 8 of their systems on bikes, was an electrical contractor, and also hold ASE Master Certification.)

On mine, I noticed it seemed to be slow to engage, so I changed my #2  to "ON". It engages quicker now, but I get more surging sometimes. I've since learned the value of "less slack is better".

Vehicle weight differences are why Rostra has dip switch adjustments. But usually, the settings listed in the tutorials BDF and Fred gave work well on a C14. Cable slack adjustment may be the deal, if you still have an issue after trying in OD at highway speeds.
Bob
2011 C14 ABS (current bike)
1982 Yamaha XJ1100J (sold)
1979 Yamaha XS11 (3200 original miles)
In the warden's words from Cool Hand Luke;
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Offline C14lvr

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2016, 01:27:51 pm »
John,
Just noticed your #11 switch setting is wrong...
#11, believe it or not, should be "ON".

I know we have manual transmissions, and logically, you'd think off would be correct, but it's not!

Guess it's due to only working properly in OD...?

(I thought this was strange, myself... but "auto transmission" mode works.)

Maybe part of the issue, too?

Should be:
001111000110.

Here's the breakdown:
Dip switches 1,2,7,8,9- these control unit response to changes in speed and overall system behavior.
1 and 2 sets the gain, specifically.

Dip switches 3,4,5,6,10- sets the "pulses per mile" or pulse train for VSS square wave vs. sine wave.
A VSS uses a square wave. A magnet/pickup coil kit uses a sine wave- different settings. Overall tire diameter would be used to calculate tire RPM for proper setting.

NOTE: When installing a Rostra on a bike with no VSS, a magnet/coil kit can be used. I have successfully installed neodynium magnets, sized to fit, in the front rotor bolt heads, and attached a pickup coil kit to the fork. Dip switch settings are then changed, accordingly. Instead of using the grey VSS wire to the Rostra, the coil kit (250-4165) is plugged into the matching Rostra wiring harness "J" connector. You will have to do the OD front tire calculation to achieve the proper switch settings for your specific bike.

I have successfully installed this way on older bikes, and also on one bike who's CPU diode blew, due to an off-road accident which damaged the servo, and caused an internal wiring short in the servo. Even after I replaced the damaged servo, it refused to work! The blown CPU diode caused a voltage backfeed to the servo, interferring with the Rostra's ability to process the VSS info. Changing over to a coil/magnet setup was cheaper and faster than an expensive CPU replacement, which was not affecting any of the bike's performance, otherwise. (2005 BMW R1200GS)

Dip switch 7- may be switched to "ON" if vehicle has problems holding speed while cruise is on. (Vehicle weight difference comes into play here sometimes.)

Dip switch 11- manual or automatic transmission.

Dip switch 12- open or closed circuit switch. Switch 250-3592 (w/engage light) & switch 250-3593 (no engage light) are open circuit switches and should use "0" or OFF setting.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 02:27:10 pm by C14lvr »
2011 C14 ABS (current bike)
1982 Yamaha XJ1100J (sold)
1979 Yamaha XS11 (3200 original miles)
In the warden's words from Cool Hand Luke;
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Offline MikeB_CA

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2016, 02:28:30 pm »
John, you should only have about 1/16" of slack in the Rostra cable that connects to the throttle. This isn't documented at all in Brian Felice's guide. The Rostra manual says to have lots of slack, but that simply doesn't work well on a C14.

John, Bigfoot is ABSOLUTELY correct...I couldn't get my Rostra working when I first installed it and went through many hours tracing steps to see what I did wrong and finally thought about the cable. Lo-and-behold, too much slack! I tightened it up and the unit worked great!!!!

Offline jawneelogik

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2016, 02:33:45 pm »
John,
Just noticed your #11 switch setting is wrong...
#11, believe it or not, should be "ON". Are you sure?  I do have my NSS hooked up to my clutch interlock and the tach signal is grounded.  This seems to work properly although a bit slow to react.

I know we have manual transmissions, and logically, you'd think off would be correct, but it's not!

Guess it's due to only working properly in OD...?

(I thought this was strange, myself... but "auto transmission" mode works.)

Maybe part of the issue, too?

Should be:
001111000110.

Here's the breakdown:
Dip switches 1,2,7,8,9- these control unit response to changes in speed and overall system behavior.
1 and 2 sets the gain, specifically.

Dip switches 3,4,5,6,10- sets the "pulses per mile" or pulse train for VSS square wave vs. sine wave.
A VSS uses a square wave. A magnet/pickup coil kit uses a sine wave- different settings. Overall tire diameter would be used to calculate tire RPM for proper setting.

NOTE: When installing a Rostra on a bike with no VSS, a magnet/coil kit can be used. I have successfully installed neodynium magnets, sized to fit, in the front rotor bolt heads, and attached a pickup coil kit to the fork. Dip switch settings are then changed, accordingly. Instead of using the grey VSS wire to the Rostra, the coil kit (250-4165) is plugged into the matching Rostra wiring harness "J" connector. You will have to do the OD front tire calculation to achieve the proper switch settings for your specific bike.
I have successfully installed this way on older bikes, and also on one bike who's CPU diode was blown, causing the Rostra not to work at all.

Dip switch 7- may be switched to "ON" if vehicle has problems holding speed while cruise is on. (Vehicle weight difference comes into play here sometimes.)So you're saying that these settings relate to the "weight" of the vehicle? i.e. 8cyl means a heavier 8 cyl vehicle and 4 cyl low means a light 4cyl vehicle?  This is a question I tried to get answered by Rostra, but the so-called tech didn't seem to understand what I was asking.

Dip switch 11- manual or automatic transmission.Set to manual

Dip switch 12- open or closed circuit switch.Mine is a 250-3592 "Open Circuit."

Just to be clear, I've used the full color wiring diagram that was created by Fred Harmon for the Rostra controller c/w Rostra control switch including "Engaged" LED.  The only changes I've made on my install were the grounds.  I've run all my grounds to one common point (Front Accessory Connector).  This avoids the "ground loop" problem that can occur when using different grounding points in the system.

As to the cable slack, I've always left zero slack or at least as little as I can achieve (the bracket has some amount of flex.)  I originally had the controller cable connected directly to the supplied "loop cable" using one of the bead chain connectors.  This didn't seem to work at all.  So, after re-reading the installation instructions, I went through the motions and added what the manual called for.  This meant adding 4 (total) beads and an additional connector. i.e. lengthening the controller cable "stick-out." After this, I re-adjusted the controller cable to have zero slack.

I will go back and remove the beads then try setting setup timer to "4cyl low".

Again, thank you all for your assistance.  I really hope I can get this working right.  Otherwise I may have to think about trading this beastie  :'( off.  I seem to get really cramped-up after only short rides and the CC would have been the answer to that problem.  It would be a shame, as I do love this bike.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 02:49:53 pm by jawneelogik »
2010 Kawi ZG1400ABS, 2000 Suzi Bandito 1200s
1985 Suzi GS1150, 1982 Suzi GS1100
1978 Suzi GS1000, 1975 Kawi 900
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline C14lvr

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2016, 02:41:50 pm »
John,
Just noticed your #11 switch setting is wrong...
#11, believe it or not, should be "ON". Are you sure?  I do have my NSS hooked up to my clutch interlock and the tach signal is grounded.  This seems to work properly although a bit slow to react.

I know we have manual transmissions, and logically, you'd think off would be correct, but it's not!

Guess it's due to only working properly in OD...?

(I thought this was strange, myself... but "auto transmission" mode works.)

Maybe part of the issue, too?

Should be:
001111000110.

Here's the breakdown:
Dip switches 1,2,7,8,9- these control unit response to changes in speed and overall system behavior.
1 and 2 sets the gain, specifically.

Dip switches 3,4,5,6,10- sets the "pulses per mile" or pulse train for VSS square wave vs. sine wave.
A VSS uses a square wave. A magnet/pickup coil kit uses a sine wave- different settings. Overall tire diameter would be used to calculate tire RPM for proper setting.

NOTE: When installing a Rostra on a bike with no VSS, a magnet/coil kit can be used. I have successfully installed neodynium magnets, sized to fit, in the front rotor bolt heads, and attached a pickup coil kit to the fork. Dip switch settings are then changed, accordingly. Instead of using the grey VSS wire to the Rostra, the coil kit (250-4165) is plugged into the matching Rostra wiring harness "J" connector. You will have to do the OD front tire calculation to achieve the proper switch settings for your specific bike.
I have successfully installed this way on older bikes, and also on one bike who's CPU diode was blown, causing the Rostra not to work at all.

Dip switch 7- may be switched to "ON" if vehicle has problems holding speed while cruise is on. (Vehicle weight difference comes into play here sometimes.)So you're saying that these settings relate to the "weight" of the vehicle? i.e. 8cyl means a heavier 8 cyl vehicle and 4 cyl low means a light 4cyl vehicle?  This is a question I tried to get answered by Rostra, but the so-called tech didn't seem to understand what I was asking.

Dip switch 11- manual or automatic transmission.Set to manual

Dip switch 12- open or closed circuit switch.Mine is a 250-3592 "Open Circuit."

Just to be clear, I've used the full color wiring diagram that was created by Fred Harmon for the Rostra controller c/w Rostra control switch including "Engaged" LED.  The only changes I've made on my install were the grounds.  I've run all my grounds to one common point (Front Accessory Connector).  This avoids the "ground loop" problem that can occur when using different grounding points in the system.

As to the cable slack, I've left zero slack or at least as little as I can achieve (the bracket has some amount of flex.)  I originally had the controller cable connected directly to the supplied "loop cable" using one of the bead chain connectors.  This didn't seem to work at all.  So, after re-reading the installation instructions, I went through the motions and added what the manual called for.  This meant adding 4 (total) beads and an additional connector.  After this, I re-adjusted the controller cable to have zero slack.

I will go back and remove the beads then try setting setup timer to "4cyl low".

Again, thank you all for your assistance.  I really hope I can get this working right.  Otherwise I may have to think about trading this beastie :) off.  I seem to get really cramped-up after only short rides and the CC would have been the answer to that problem.  It would be a shame, as I do love this bike.
2011 C14 ABS (current bike)
1982 Yamaha XJ1100J (sold)
1979 Yamaha XS11 (3200 original miles)
In the warden's words from Cool Hand Luke;
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Offline C14lvr

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2016, 02:56:07 pm »
John,
Just noticed your #11 switch setting is wrong...
#11, believe it or not, should be "ON". Are you sure?  I do have my NSS hooked up to my clutch interlock and the tach signal is grounded.  This seems to work properly although a bit slow to react.

I know we have manual transmissions, and logically, you'd think off would be correct, but it's not!

Guess it's due to only working properly in OD...?

(I thought this was strange, myself... but "auto transmission" mode works.)

Maybe part of the issue, too?

Should be:
001111000110.

Here's the breakdown:
Dip switches 1,2,7,8,9- these control unit response to changes in speed and overall system behavior.
1 and 2 sets the gain, specifically.

Dip switches 3,4,5,6,10- sets the "pulses per mile" or pulse train for VSS square wave vs. sine wave.
A VSS uses a square wave. A magnet/pickup coil kit uses a sine wave- different settings. Overall tire diameter would be used to calculate tire RPM for proper setting.

NOTE: When installing a Rostra on a bike with no VSS, a magnet/coil kit can be used. I have successfully installed neodynium magnets, sized to fit, in the front rotor bolt heads, and attached a pickup coil kit to the fork. Dip switch settings are then changed, accordingly. Instead of using the grey VSS wire to the Rostra, the coil kit (250-4165) is plugged into the matching Rostra wiring harness "J" connector. You will have to do the OD front tire calculation to achieve the proper switch settings for your specific bike.
I have successfully installed this way on older bikes, and also on one bike who's CPU diode was blown, causing the Rostra not to work at all.

Dip switch 7- may be switched to "ON" if vehicle has problems holding speed while cruise is on. (Vehicle weight difference comes into play here sometimes.)So you're saying that these settings relate to the "weight" of the vehicle? i.e. 8cyl means a heavier 8 cyl vehicle and 4 cyl low means a light 4cyl vehicle?  This is a question I tried to get answered by Rostra, but the so-called tech didn't seem to understand what I was asking.

Dip switch 11- manual or automatic transmission.Set to manual

Dip switch 12- open or closed circuit switch.Mine is a 250-3592 "Open Circuit."

Just to be clear, I've used the full color wiring diagram that was created by Fred Harmon for the Rostra controller c/w Rostra control switch including "Engaged" LED.  The only changes I've made on my install were the grounds.  I've run all my grounds to one common point (Front Accessory Connector).  This avoids the "ground loop" problem that can occur when using different grounding points in the system.

As to the cable slack, I've left zero slack or at least as little as I can achieve (the bracket has some amount of flex.)  I originally had the controller cable connected directly to the supplied "loop cable" using one of the bead chain connectors.  This didn't seem to work at all.  So, after re-reading the installation instructions, I went through the motions and added what the manual called for.  This meant adding 4 (total) beads and an additional connector.  After this, I re-adjusted the controller cable to have zero slack.

I will go back and remove the beads then try setting setup timer to "4cyl low".

Again, thank you all for your assistance.  I really hope I can get this working right.  Otherwise I may have to think about trading this beastie :) off.  I seem to get really cramped-up after only short rides and the CC would have been the answer to that problem.  It would be a shame, as I do love this bike.

Hi again, John...
FYI, you may want to go back and reread my previous post. After I posted, I went back and edited some, adding a few clarifications in places. Didn't expect you'd reply so fast! Lol.

Having one common ground for everything's the best. Totally agree, and this is how I wire all mine.
I never use the dark blue tach wire. Nor do I ground it. It is used if you have an automatic transmission, which would shut the cruise down if it got knocked into neutral. We disregard this wire.

As for slack, like Jim said previously, you want about 1/16" inch...just a little bit.

As for the specific reason behind why the pioneers who adapted the Rostra to a C14 chose the 8 cyl setting, I can't answer that one. Fred or Brian Felice can, I'm sure. Brian Felice's tutorial was the first one I saw when I first put one on an '08 C14. I used his settings/directions. Worked perfectly. When I bought my 2011 C14, I used them again. Worked perfectly. I have used it on 4 BMW's... no problems.

I think Murph'skits has Brian's tutorial link. You might compare the two?
I would suggest you switch #11.

Have you had a chance to try it out on the highway in top gear at say 65 mph yet?

I also have a hand drawn (rough sketch) wiring diagram w/ other necessary info and explanations I made for my own future reference I can PM you, if you need it.

The Rostra WILL work great on these bikes. I love mine! 4 years now, -0- problems.
Don't give up yet, neither on the Rostra OR the C14. Both are "totally awesome!"  :)
2011 C14 ABS (current bike)
1982 Yamaha XJ1100J (sold)
1979 Yamaha XS11 (3200 original miles)
In the warden's words from Cool Hand Luke;
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2016, 02:58:49 pm »
My advice would be not to use the cruise control in any gears other than 5th or 6th (preferably 6th) and at any speeds below about 50.  It's intended purpose is for cruising in top gear at highway speeds. If you use it in that fashion, I think you'll be very happy with it.

Most motorcycles that have factory integrated cruise control won't allow you to even engage it in the lower gears and at lower speeds. Unfortunately, there is no way for the Rosta to limit engagement based on what gear your in, so it will let you engage it in any gear.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 03:53:04 pm by Fred_Harmon_TX »
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Offline MikeB_CA

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2016, 03:01:17 pm »

Hi again, John...
FYI, you may want to go back and reread my previous post. After I posted, I went back and edited some, adding a few clarifications in places. Didn't expect you'd reply so fast! Lol.

Having one common ground for everything's the best. Totally agree, and this is how I wire all mine.
I never use the dark blue tach wire. Nor do I ground it. It is used if you have an automatic transmission, which would shut the cruise down if it got knocked into neutral. We disregard this wire.

As for slack, like Jim said previously, you want about 1/16" inch...just a little bit.

As for the specific reason behind why the pioneers who adapted the Rostra to a C14 chose the 8 cyl setting, I can't answer that one. Fred or Brian Felice can, I'm sure. Brian Felice's tutorial was the first one I saw when I first put one on an '08 C14. I used his settings/directions. Worked perfectly. When I bought my 2011 C14, I used them again. Worked perfectly. I have used it on 4 BMW's... no problems.

I think Murph'skits has Brian's tutorial link. You might compare the two?
I would suggest you switch #11.

Have you had a chance to try it out on the highway in top gear at say 65 mph yet?

I also have a hand drawn (rough sketch) wiring diagram w/ other necessary info and explanations I made for my own future reference I can PM you, if you need it.

The Rostra WILL work great on these bikes. I love mine! 4 years now, -0- problems.
Don't give up yet, neither on the Rostra OR the C14. Both are "totally awesome!"  :)

+1 on Brian's instructions. I've used his instructions on 2 installs and they both worked great. I did have some problems getting them to work first try but the issues were totally "carbon-based errors" :-[!

Offline MikeB_CA

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2016, 03:03:08 pm »
My advice would be not to used the cruise control in any gears other than 5th or 6th (preferably 6th) and at any speeds below about 50.  It's intended purpose is for cruising in top gear at highway speeds. If you use it in that fashion, I think you'll be very happy with it.

Most motorcycles that have factory integrated cruise control won't allow you to even engage it in the lower gears and at lower speeds. Unfortunately, there is no way for the Rosta to limit engagement based on what gear your in, so it will let you engage it in any gear.

Again...+1...what he said! Like I said earlier, I don't use mine unless I'm at 70mph or faster...I like faster :motonoises:  :)

Offline jawneelogik

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2016, 03:18:58 pm »
John,
Just noticed your #11 switch setting is wrong...
#11, believe it or not, should be "ON". Are you sure?  I do have my NSS hooked up to my clutch interlock and the tach signal is grounded.  This seems to work properly although a bit slow to react.

I know we have manual transmissions, and logically, you'd think off would be correct, but it's not!

Guess it's due to only working properly in OD...?

(I thought this was strange, myself... but "auto transmission" mode works.)

Maybe part of the issue, too?

Should be:
001111000110.

Here's the breakdown:
Dip switches 1,2,7,8,9- these control unit response to changes in speed and overall system behavior.
1 and 2 sets the gain, specifically.

Dip switches 3,4,5,6,10- sets the "pulses per mile" or pulse train for VSS square wave vs. sine wave.
A VSS uses a square wave. A magnet/pickup coil kit uses a sine wave- different settings. Overall tire diameter would be used to calculate tire RPM for proper setting.

NOTE: When installing a Rostra on a bike with no VSS, a magnet/coil kit can be used. I have successfully installed neodynium magnets, sized to fit, in the front rotor bolt heads, and attached a pickup coil kit to the fork. Dip switch settings are then changed, accordingly. Instead of using the grey VSS wire to the Rostra, the coil kit (250-4165) is plugged into the matching Rostra wiring harness "J" connector. You will have to do the OD front tire calculation to achieve the proper switch settings for your specific bike.
I have successfully installed this way on older bikes, and also on one bike who's CPU diode was blown, causing the Rostra not to work at all.

Dip switch 7- may be switched to "ON" if vehicle has problems holding speed while cruise is on. (Vehicle weight difference comes into play here sometimes.)So you're saying that these settings relate to the "weight" of the vehicle? i.e. 8cyl means a heavier 8 cyl vehicle and 4 cyl low means a light 4cyl vehicle?  This is a question I tried to get answered by Rostra, but the so-called tech didn't seem to understand what I was asking.

Dip switch 11- manual or automatic transmission.Set to manual

Dip switch 12- open or closed circuit switch.Mine is a 250-3592 "Open Circuit."

Just to be clear, I've used the full color wiring diagram that was created by Fred Harmon for the Rostra controller c/w Rostra control switch including "Engaged" LED.  The only changes I've made on my install were the grounds.  I've run all my grounds to one common point (Front Accessory Connector).  This avoids the "ground loop" problem that can occur when using different grounding points in the system.

As to the cable slack, I've left zero slack or at least as little as I can achieve (the bracket has some amount of flex.)  I originally had the controller cable connected directly to the supplied "loop cable" using one of the bead chain connectors.  This didn't seem to work at all.  So, after re-reading the installation instructions, I went through the motions and added what the manual called for.  This meant adding 4 (total) beads and an additional connector.  After this, I re-adjusted the controller cable to have zero slack.

I will go back and remove the beads then try setting setup timer to "4cyl low".

Again, thank you all for your assistance.  I really hope I can get this working right.  Otherwise I may have to think about trading this beastie :) off.  I seem to get really cramped-up after only short rides and the CC would have been the answer to that problem.  It would be a shame, as I do love this bike.

Hi again, John...
FYI, you may want to go back and reread my previous post. After I posted, I went back and edited some, adding a few clarifications in places. Didn't expect you'd reply so fast! Lol.  I'm motivated to get it working or die trying!

As for slack, like Jim said previously, you want about 1/16" inch...just a little bit. What I have should be good then.

As for the specific reason behind why the pioneers who adapted the Rostra to a C14 chose the 8 cyl setting, I can't answer that one. Fred or Brian Felice can, I'm sure. Brian Felice's tutorial was the first one I saw when I first put one on an '08 C14. I used his settings/directions. Worked perfectly. When I bought my 2011 C14, I used them again. Worked perfectly. I have used it on 4 BMW's... no problems. that was my understanding as well, but if these settings have to do with vehicle weight then setting it for 4cyl low would seem to me to make more sense from a response perspective, no?  I will try that anyway as 8cyl low did not work.

I think Murph'skits has Brian's tutorial link. You might compare the two? I have done so.  In fact, that is where I started this journey.
I would suggest you switch #11.OK, will do.

Have you had a chance to try it out on the highway in top gear at say 65 mph yet?I need to finish reassembling.  I don't want to get out on the highway with half my "intestines" hanging out  ;)

I also have a hand drawn (rough sketch) wiring diagram w/ other necessary info and explanations I made for my own future reference I can PM you, if you need it.

The Rostra WILL work great on these bikes. I love mine! 4 years now, -0- problems.
Don't give up yet, neither on the Rostra OR the C14. Both are "totally awesome!"  :)  As I said earlier "...  or die trying!"  No worries mate.  It is only a machine and machines were meant to be man's servant not his master!
2010 Kawi ZG1400ABS, 2000 Suzi Bandito 1200s
1985 Suzi GS1150, 1982 Suzi GS1100
1978 Suzi GS1000, 1975 Kawi 900
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Offline jawneelogik

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2016, 03:47:31 pm »
First, let me apologize for over utilizing the "quote" facility.  I see where it can easily get out of hand.

Second, I am gratified to see so many rapid responses to my query.  Thank you all again for wanting to help a fellow traveler.

I'm going to go back to the start using the settings that were included with Fred's diagram then get out on the highway.  I have determined that the safety interlocks are fully functional so I can button this thing back up and not have stuff hanging out.

What I do find frustrating is that, as a control systems engineer, this should not be any sort of problem for me.  It is simply a "garden variety" closed loop control system.  The sticky bit is the fact that we have little or no technical info regarding the actual specs of this system.  Without that we are shooting in the dark.

I will be working over the weekend and, hopefully, get it to a state that is usable.  I will report back my results.

Thank you all and have a great weekend.
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1985 Suzi GS1150, 1982 Suzi GS1100
1978 Suzi GS1000, 1975 Kawi 900
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2016, 03:34:50 am »
I have a Rostra on my C14 and I have none of the issues I am reading about with surging in any gear and with speeds down to  30mph. I dont think mine will even  engage below 30 but in any case I certainly can run it as low as  3rd gear  and  at   or above 30 mph and  with no surging. The street I live on is 35 mph speed limit and I run the cruise control just fine at that speed and it is very smooth and stable

It might be that that I had  read about others having that problem and  I read that it was due to the short length of the arm where the cable is attached to  so I  lengthened  the attachment  point  to make it sure it wasn't twitchy when I did my install..
That is my experience.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 03:45:32 am by Daytona_Mike »
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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2016, 04:25:47 am »
I have a Rostra on my C14 and I have none of the issues I am reading about with surging in any gear and with speeds down to  30mph. I dont think mine will even  engage below 30 but in any case I certainly can run it as low as  3rd gear  and  at   or above 30 mph and  with no surging. The street I live on is 35 mph speed limit and I run the cruise control just fine at that speed and it is very smooth and stable

It might be that that I had  read about others having that problem and  I read that it was due to the short length of the arm where the cable is attached to  so I  lengthened  the attachment  point  to make it sure it wasn't twitchy when I did my install..
That is my experience.
Same here, No surging & I can use in any gear at about any speed. I also lengthened the arm by about 1 1/4" so maybe that does away with the surging/twitchyness
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Offline flashback50

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2016, 02:08:00 pm »
John I would love to see pics of your install if you can post them.   :great:

Offline jawneelogik

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2016, 02:27:48 pm »
For anyone who is interested, here is the first batch of fotos.  https://goo.gl/photos/mt33ZWoDyR4PKfdi8

I plan to add more, but, for now, I only have shots of the cable attachment, and that may change based on new information.  I will say that using this particular arrangement made for a nice smooth curve for the control cable to follow.  The cable moves in and out without any stickyness.

john
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Offline jawneelogik

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2016, 02:44:03 pm »
Could either of you please expand on what you mean?  Are you referring to the "horn" that sticks out passed the throttle pulleys?  If that is what you have done then I will have to completely rearrange my control cable attachment.  I am running my control cable in parallel with the bottom throttle "opening" cable, and the "loop" cable that is included with the Rostra kit actually loops over that horn then slides down into the bottom pulley track.  (I don't have a photobucket to post pics to or I would show you.)  Do you have any fotos?

What about dip switch settings?  Can you share?

Thx for responding by-the-way.

John

I have a Rostra on my C14 and I have none of the issues I am reading about with surging in any gear and with speeds down to  30mph. I dont think mine will even  engage below 30 but in any case I certainly can run it as low as  3rd gear  and  at   or above 30 mph and  with no surging. The street I live on is 35 mph speed limit and I run the cruise control just fine at that speed and it is very smooth and stable

It might be that that I had  read about others having that problem and  I read that it was due to the short length of the arm where the cable is attached to  so I  lengthened  the attachment  point  to make it sure it wasn't twitchy when I did my install..
That is my experience.
Same here, No surging & I can use in any gear at about any speed. I also lengthened the arm by about 1 1/4" so maybe that does away with the surging/twitchyness
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1985 Suzi GS1150, 1982 Suzi GS1100
1978 Suzi GS1000, 1975 Kawi 900
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline jawneelogik

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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2016, 02:46:29 pm »
Pls disregard in my last post where it says "I don't have a foto bucket."  I do now.

I am a bit baffled though cuz I have seen numerous other posts here where people have embedded fotos into their posts.  ???

John
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1978 Suzi GS1000, 1975 Kawi 900
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Re: Rostra Cruise Control Surging
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2016, 04:26:20 pm »
Pls disregard in my last post where it says "I don't have a foto bucket."  I do now.

I am a bit baffled though cuz I have seen numerous other posts here where people have embedded fotos into their posts.  ???

John
This works well for me.
Don't know about Rostra's but my Audiovox's work smooth down to 30mph or so on an FJR & a WeeStrom only counting ignition pulses as the clock.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 04:30:33 pm by Zorlac »
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