Author Topic: Rostra experts...need some help! >>>>Resolved<<<<  (Read 1988 times)

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Offline 1965soda

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Rostra experts...need some help! >>>>Resolved<<<<
« on: May 12, 2013, 08:42:52 pm »
Calling Rostra experts.

I installed the Rostra over the weekend and it went pretty well.  The diagnostics worked and on my first test ride I experienced a surging...pulls above set speed...relaxes below set speed...pulls above...relaxes below...repeat.  I checked the settings and they match what Fred and Brian posted.  I then adjusted 1,2,7,8,9 and although some combinations helped, I cannot completely get rid of the problem. 

I should mention I did my test ride at low speeds in 3rd gear....and wondering if that is the problem.  Or, if I did not hook something up correctly.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 10:13:17 pm by 1965soda »
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)

Offline fartymarty

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2013, 09:08:27 pm »
How much slack in the actuator cable do you have when the throttle is in the closed idle position?
Most (but not all) have found that good actuator cable alignment and minimal slack have the smoothest operation.
I'd go back to the Fred H. recommended dip switch settings and only change them as a very last resort.
Seems unlikely to be the problem, but you might want to double check your connection to the speed sensor. Is it
soldered and well insulated?   I haven't used mine in third gear (ever, to the best of my knowledge) so that may be the
problem. I've used it in 5th for testing and 6th (99.999%) for travel. I guess, so we are comparing apples to apples, it would be
best (for forum assistance) to return to the recommended switch settings and then test in 5th and 6th gear at normal highway cruise speeds.
Sorry I can't be of more help. Keep us apprised of your efforts and results.

edit: PS. I'm no Rostra expert, I've just done the one install, but I still think the experts would want
you to test it at normal cruise speeds and gears with the recommended dip switch settings.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 09:31:24 pm by fartymarty »

Offline 1965soda

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2013, 09:40:54 pm »
Thanks FM. 

The speed sensor was my first guess as well and although I did not solder the connection I confirmed it is secure and it is taped up well.

The cable slack is very minimal...in fact I wondered if I had it too tight so I adjusted my bracket just a bit and that did not make a difference.  So I adjusted it back so that it just allows the throttle to close.

I found the smoothest was using Fred's dip settings but with two changes....I moved 1 and 8 to on (instead of off) and that smoothed out out very minimally. 

I wanted to do a test ride before I buttoned everything back up so that is why I was testing at a low speed and gear (some of the fairing was partially attached).  I will finish my regular maintenance and get the fairing re-fastended up and take it out on the road and see how it responds.

Appreciate the clarifying questions and willingness to help.  I will check back in periodically in hopes that some more ideas/thoughts get posted.

Thanks again!
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)

Offline Big-Al

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2013, 10:14:35 pm »
Calling Rostra experts.

I installed the Rostra over the weekend and it went pretty well.  The diagnostics worked and on my first test ride I experienced a surging...pulls above set speed...relaxes below set speed...pulls above...relaxes below...repeat.  I checked the settings and they match what Fred and Brian posted.  I then adjusted 1,2,7,8,9 and although some combinations helped, I cannot completely get rid of the problem. 

I should mention I did my test ride at low speeds in 3rd gear....and wondering if that is the problem.  Or, if I did not hook something up correctly.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.


I had some of the same issues and started this thread a while back. See if it helps at all...

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,42143.msg260579/topicseen.html#msg260579
2012 Kawasaki Concours (Arabian Red) (1400cc)
2008 BMW K1200GT (1200cc)
2004 BMW K1200GT (1200cc)
1998 BMW K1200RS (1200cc)
1991 BMW K1 (1000cc)
1986 BMW K100 LT (1000cc)
1980 BMW R100 RT (1000cc)
1975 BMW R90/6 (900cc)
1972 BSA Lightning (750cc)
1970 Norton Commando (750cc)
1969 Triumph Bonneville (650cc)
1968 Harley Davidson Sprint (250cc)
1967 Honda Super Hawk (305cc)
1967 Honda Cub (65cc)

Offline 1965soda

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2013, 10:25:19 pm »
Thanks Al.  Based on the reply (in your thread) from BDF and his comments about how jerky the system can be at lower speeds if that is the problem....I did my initial test ride at 30 mph and in 3rd gear.  I have the oil changed and most of the fairing back on now so I can get it up to speed in 6th gear and will see how it behaves. 

Thanks and I will report back but any other comments/suggestions would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 10:27:04 pm by 1965soda »
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)

Offline 1965soda

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2013, 11:54:08 pm »
Update.....returned the dip settings to the Fred/Brian settings and then out on the hwy....the cruise works amazing!  Apparently it just over compensates at low speeds and overshoots the setted speed and then over compensates when it tries to bring the speed back to the set speed.

Anyway it works great in 6th gear and at speeds over 45mph.  I'm now really looking forward to giving it a try on my upcoming trip to Phoenix this week.

Thanks again and thanks for enduring what appears to have been a false alarm on my part!
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)

Offline TrampGeo

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 12:16:15 am »
Glad you got it working.  fartymarty and I put extensions on the throttle attachment point.  Lengthening the arm on the throttle reduces the sensitivity of the Rostra unit.  I can cruise at 45 without much surge. 

See http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,27078.msg121631.html#msg121631.  My comments start near the bottom of the second page of the thread.  At some future time I am going to move the Rostra control unit to the space occupied by the carbon canister on the right side.

-Larry

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 12:32:15 am »
You really can't depend on it to work smoothly in the lower gears and lower speeds. It works best in 5th and 6th gear. If you try to use it in 3rd, you're going to get some surging, and I don't think there is any way to fix that. Even the OEM cruise on my Wing won't engage at the lower speeds and below 3rd gear for this same reason. The throttle is just way too sensitive in the lower gears.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 12:34:41 am by Fred_Harmon_TX »
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 01:51:09 am »
I get a little surging in 3rd gear, but have had it engaged down to 40mph with no problem just to see if it would. No problem.  :motonoises:
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Offline Big-Al

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help!
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 02:09:40 am »
Update.....returned the dip settings to the Fred/Brian settings and then out on the hwy....the cruise works amazing!  Apparently it just over compensates at low speeds and overshoots the setted speed and then over compensates when it tries to bring the speed back to the set speed.

Anyway it works great in 6th gear and at speeds over 45mph.  I'm now really looking forward to giving it a try on my upcoming trip to Phoenix this week.

Thanks again and thanks for enduring what appears to have been a false alarm on my part!

Glad you got it all worked out... Mine still surges a little (even after all the tinkering) but is entirely acceptable. As others have mentioned... it is the nature of the beast. It holds speed perfectly. I am VERY happy with it... IMO, best farkle ever...
2012 Kawasaki Concours (Arabian Red) (1400cc)
2008 BMW K1200GT (1200cc)
2004 BMW K1200GT (1200cc)
1998 BMW K1200RS (1200cc)
1991 BMW K1 (1000cc)
1986 BMW K100 LT (1000cc)
1980 BMW R100 RT (1000cc)
1975 BMW R90/6 (900cc)
1972 BSA Lightning (750cc)
1970 Norton Commando (750cc)
1969 Triumph Bonneville (650cc)
1968 Harley Davidson Sprint (250cc)
1967 Honda Super Hawk (305cc)
1967 Honda Cub (65cc)

Offline 1965soda

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help! >>>RESOLVED<<<
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 10:12:25 pm »
Thanks again everyone for the replies and for the previous expertise (in previous posts).  I rode to work today for the first time with the Rostra and it was great.  My trip to Phoenix (starting tomorrow afternoon) will be a great test for the system but I am feeling so confident in the new system....I pulled my Kaoko throttle lock off and reinstalled the oem bar end. :-)

So for others performing this install....perform your first test ride at speeds above 45mph and in top gear.  The system will work below that but the surging/hunting caused me more than a bit of unnecessary panic and resulting posts.

Thanks again!
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)

Offline BDF

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Re: Rostra experts...need some help! >>>RESOLVED<<<
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 02:15:29 am »
Glad to hear it worked out for you and it sounds about normal for a Rostra on a C-14. That said, mine works pretty well at much lower speeds provided I keep the engine speed down by using as high a gear as practical. I can get mine to work at 25 MPH but I have to be careful setting it to avoid the initial surge that upsets the system.

It also helps to engage the CC by holding the throttle steady and gently reducing speed to let the unit take over. Abruptly closing the throttle after engaging the unit provides a significant shock (a large step input for the tech. types) that starts the system surging in the first place. Ultimately the surging will diminish if the vehicle speed is great enough but it is not a smooth transition. Being a bit gentler with the system when engaging it really helps the system work better on a motorcycle.

In the end, we have to understand that the Rostra is an automotive unit and not meant for use on such a high power- to- weight vehicle as a C-14 or most other motorcycles. The system is just not set up for such fine throttle control (for the tech. types, the PID loop is just too slow and wide for best throttle control). What we are essentially doing is cheating the Rostra into / onto a bike not equipped with cruise control and getting what I think is a fantastic performer for what it costs and what it was designed for (something other than motorcycles). So I think it works quite well but has some rough edges that have to be accepted to have a happy Rostra equipped C-14 owner.

Brian

Thanks again everyone for the replies and for the previous expertise (in previous posts).  I rode to work today for the first time with the Rostra and it was great.  My trip to Phoenix (starting tomorrow afternoon) will be a great test for the system but I am feeling so confident in the new system....I pulled my Kaoko throttle lock off and reinstalled the oem bar end. :-)

So for others performing this install....perform your first test ride at speeds above 45mph and in top gear.  The system will work below that but the surging/hunting caused me more than a bit of unnecessary panic and resulting posts.

Thanks again!
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