Author Topic: Shorai Battery  (Read 22390 times)

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Offline JTX

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2015, 12:58:36 am »
I dunno, guys... I personally see no compelling reason to buy anything other than the $75 AGM batteries I have in my C14, my KLR, and my Wave Runner. Cheap, reliable, long-lasting, vibration tolerant, non-spilling...what more could I want?

YMMV, I suppose.


I tend to agree.  At least until LION gets a bit less expensive.

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2015, 01:26:43 am »
Here is a motorcycle battery buyer's guide that covers the pros and cons of the three types of batteries.

http://motorcycleinfo.org/2013/02/motorcycle-batteries/
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Offline JTX

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2015, 02:01:07 am »
Good read, and good reminder/refresher

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2015, 11:47:18 am »
Here is a motorcycle battery buyer's guide that covers the pros and cons of the three types of batteries.

http://motorcycleinfo.org/2013/02/motorcycle-batteries/

From the article, here is a summary for each battery type.

Lithium

Most expensive.  Smaller and much lighter, Better cranking and longer life are two more advantages that lithium-iron motorcycle batteries have over lead-acid.

Gel
Are vibration and impact resistant, won’t sulfate, and can be installed at an angle instead of sitting flat.  They tend to also be lighter than traditional lead-acid motorcycle batteries, and more reliable too.

AGM
If you are looking for the best motorcycle battery without investing in the typically higher up-front cost of a lithium battery, then an AGM motorcycle battery is the way to go.

Flooded Acid
Compared to their other AGM batteries, this one has better capability to recharge after being badly drained of its charge.  It requires maintenance, but also has a longer shelf life and comes factory activated.
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Offline Tundra Tom

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2015, 02:45:19 pm »
I dunno, guys... I personally see no compelling reason to buy anything other than the $75 AGM batteries I have in my C14, my KLR, and my Wave Runner. Cheap, reliable, long-lasting, vibration tolerant, non-spilling...what more could I want?

YMMV, I suppose.

Agreed,
Not to mention many quoted weight savings, on a almost 700 lb. Motorcycle........... ::)
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Offline Sailor_chic

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2015, 02:57:35 pm »
+1 for the Odyssey battery!
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2015, 03:54:10 am »
I have one in my bike. The 21 amp/hour fits a whole lot better than the 18 amp Shorai I had in previously. Though the 21 amp hour is a bit heavier than the 18. I think the 18 amp hour weight about 1.5 lbs, and the 21 amp/hr weighs about 3 lbs. But its still about 10 lbs lighter than the OEM battery.




The Shorai has been in my bike for almost three years now, and still going strong. Due to the nature of these batteries, it cranks a little slow below about 35 degrees on the first start of the day , but I've had zero problems with it. Unlike my other batteries, I never even bother putting a charger on it when the bike is parked for long periods. It doesn't self discharge like lead acid batteries do. I let the bike sit for nearly 3 months this year and it still started just fine.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 04:01:21 am by Fred_Harmon_TX »
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2015, 01:16:07 pm »
The Shorai has been in my bike for almost three years now, and still going strong. Due to the nature of these batteries, it cranks a little slow below about 35 degrees on the first start of the day , but I've had zero problems with it. Unlike my other batteries, I never even bother putting a charger on it when the bike is parked for long periods. It doesn't self discharge like lead acid batteries do. I let the bike sit for nearly 3 months this year and it still started just fine.

I have mine sitting on a table in the kitchen. It went dead in the bike sitting in the storage unit (no electricity) due to the cold weather (below zero a few times). But sitting in the house, it doesn't lose charge at all. Every once in a while I plug the Shorai charger into it, and it goes into storage mode in about 15 seconds.

I'll put it back in the bike as soon as the 2 feet of snow melts and it warms up.  :beerchug:
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2015, 02:08:12 pm »
The Shorai has been in my bike for almost three years now, and still going strong. Due to the nature of these batteries, it cranks a little slow below about 35 degrees on the first start of the day , but I've had zero problems with it. Unlike my other batteries, I never even bother putting a charger on it when the bike is parked for long periods. It doesn't self discharge like lead acid batteries do. I let the bike sit for nearly 3 months this year and it still started just fine.

I have mine sitting on a table in the kitchen. It went dead in the bike sitting in the storage unit (no electricity) due to the cold weather (below zero a few times). But sitting in the house, it doesn't lose charge at all. Every once in a while I plug the Shorai charger into it, and it goes into storage mode in about 15 seconds.

I'll put it back in the bike as soon as the 2 feet of snow melts and it warms up.  :beerchug:
From what I read about Lithium batteries, the resistance goes up in cold weather and the discharge rate is actually lower in cold weather.  Bad battery?
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2015, 02:15:51 pm »
I won’t argue with anyone that says the AGM battery is a better value since it costs much less, and has many advantages over the stock C-14 12 AH battery. 

However, I did a lot of reading on the Lithium batteries and feel that while it’s not the cheapest battery, it’s the best battery.  EarthX took the Lithium battery technology one step further by using a Battery Management System.  The BMS integrated into the battery will not allow the battery to discharge below 9 Volts, or overcharge, and continually balances the charge.

The ADVrider forum gave this EarthX battery a full test, and confirmed its cranking amps are accurate.   
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757934&page=20

So after all of the reading, I purchased and installed the EarthX  ETX24C 24 aH version with 270 Cold Cranking Amps.  The footprint is identical to the stock FTZ14-BS, and only weighs 2.6 lbs.  The height is less, so a few pieces of supplied foam rubber filled in the gap.  The center mounted terminals, with adjustable L/R lugs allow the connections to be made from either side.  The installation was simple.

The fast charge rate, and 24 aH rating will guarantee strong starts after a series of short rides with high loads like heated gear.  As Fred mentioned, there will be no need to put it on a tender.   

Here are the advantages of this battery.
http://earthxmotorsports.com/our-batteries/#technology

◾Light-weight — 70-80% less weight
◾Long Service Life — Up to 4000 charge / discharge cycles (~3-8 years), over 4 times the life of a lead-acid battery
◾Longer Storage Life – due to extremely low self-discharge rate, no need for charging in the off-season
◾Environmentally Friendly — non-toxic, non-contaminating, lead free and no hazardous materials
◾Wide Operating Temperature Range (-30 C–+60C) — lithium batteries are dry cell technology and will not freeze
◾Fast Charge — can be fully charged in less than a half hour
◾Maintenance Free
◾No Special Mounting Direction
◾Safety and Reliability — internal cells are continually monitored by an integrated battery management system

The key advantages of Earthx lithium batteries over competitors lithium batteries;
◾Safety, performance and longevity are very important in the design of the EarthX battery and is the leader in the lithium market with the only battery management system included inside every battery to protect from over discharge, over charge, cell balancing, and excessive cranking protection.
◾All our products are engineered in the USA
◾We use American battery technology, the most advanced lithium battery technology in the world
◾Our batteries are assembled, engineered and designed  in the USA using US and foreign components.
◾No expensive balancing charger needed.
◾Flexible battery connection — our batteries can be used in either left or right side polarity applications. You also have the option to connect the battery leads directly to your vehicle.

I'll test it for you guys and report back.   :motonoises:



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Offline suprPHREAK

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2015, 02:37:36 pm »
One thing I would like to point out, as a hobbyist who uses LiPo batteries in planes:

If a LiPo drops below 2.7v per cell (8.1v on a 3 cell, or "12v" battery), it will NOT recharge, period. It isn't safe to do so. Attempting to charge it could result in a fire. I presume that all of these Shorai, EarthX, etc will have circuitry to prevent the fires and force-charging, so that is probably not a worry.

The reason I mention this, is that if you let that battery run down just once, be it accidentally leaving an aux light on, or heated grips, or whatever, your expensive battery is done for. AGM and other traditional battery types can usually be restored if you get a charge to them soon enough, such as bump starting the bike or boosting it. It wont run as well, but it will get you home, and will probably run fine for the rest of the season at least.

So, if you can 100% guarantee you won't run down the battery in the 8 years you hope to have the LiPo, then excellent, no worries. I just look at it that accidents happen, and I don't want to be 100% stuck after walking through a national park because I left something plugged in. Just my $0.02
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2015, 02:50:57 pm »
One thing I would like to point out, as a hobbyist who uses LiPo batteries in planes:

If a LiPo drops below 2.7v per cell (8.1v on a 3 cell, or "12v" battery), it will NOT recharge, period. It isn't safe to do so. Attempting to charge it could result in a fire. I presume that all of these Shorai, EarthX, etc will have circuitry to prevent the fires and force-charging, so that is probably not a worry.

The reason I mention this, is that if you let that battery run down just once, be it accidentally leaving an aux light on, or heated grips, or whatever, your expensive battery is done for. AGM and other traditional battery types can usually be restored if you get a charge to them soon enough, such as bump starting the bike or boosting it. It wont run as well, but it will get you home, and will probably run fine for the rest of the season at least.

So, if you can 100% guarantee you won't run down the battery in the 8 years you hope to have the LiPo, then excellent, no worries. I just look at it that accidents happen, and I don't want to be 100% stuck after walking through a national park because I left something plugged in. Just my $0.02

Good point about running the battery down.  Or any battery for that matter.    That is the reason why the Battery Management System in the EarthX is so important.  Once it gets to 9 volts, it cuts off the power to protect the battery.  There are instructions for charging it in that condition and getting it working again.  Either put a battery in parallel temporarily with a charger to get the terminal juice flowing again, or use the Optimate 471 charger that has the battery BMS reset feature.  The battery will not get destroyed which is huge.   
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Offline suprPHREAK

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2015, 02:55:35 pm »
But can you bump-start it in this stage? I don't know about you, but the last time I ran down, I had neither a charger nor an outlet handy....

But that also raises another thing for me, especially with needing a special charger: you need to carry that with you on a trip, just in case. Regular batteries will take any damn charger that the local mechanic has.

Don't get me wrong, lithiums are the future, but I'm not convinced the benefits outweigh the risks. I do many a long trip to secluded areas, and I don't want to be limited by special equipment to get workingi a pinch.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2015, 03:02:52 pm »
For off road riders, having a dead battery with no one around is a big deal.  Earthx sells a small portable jump pack if that is a concern on the C-14..

http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/earthx-jump-pack/


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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2015, 03:09:04 pm »
From what I read about Lithium batteries, the resistance goes up in cold weather and the discharge rate is actually lower in cold weather.  Bad battery?

I misspoke, the lithium iron phosphate batteries like the Shorai get to the point in cold weather they can't run the starter. Which may tie in with what you say about resistance going up. 

But no, my bike battery isn't a bad battery, it works great. But like all Shorai batteries, if you let it sit in the cold it will no work well.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 03:16:43 pm by JR »
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2015, 03:19:56 pm »
From what I read about Lithium batteries, the resistance goes up in cold weather and the discharge rate is actually lower in cold weather.  Bad battery?

I think you need to research more. Over on the ZX14 forum, we were using these a very long time ago, and found out sitting in very cold weather would discharge them. Its also true of other lithium  batteries. The cell in my flashlight only lasts half as long in cold weather as it does in warm weather.

But no, my bike battery isn't a bad battery, it works great. But like all Shorai batteries, if you let it sit in the cold it will discharge.

No battery likes to operate in the cold, and Lithium is no exception.  It take some aH current capacity to warm them up to lower the resistance in the cold.  But from what I read, Lithium batteries like being stored in the cold.   
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Offline gpd323

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2015, 09:44:56 pm »
For off road riders, having a dead battery with no one around is a big deal.  Earthx sells a small portable jump pack if that is a concern on the C-14..

http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/earthx-jump-pack/


I like that one, this is in my Amazon wish list for future purchase.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FDYYK4A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=29PVRE1VWEWLV&coliid=I2J2X8PZNE1LF0
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Offline cuda

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2015, 12:15:26 am »
One thing I would like to point out, as a hobbyist who uses LiPo batteries in planes:

If a LiPo drops below 2.7v per cell (8.1v on a 3 cell, or "12v" battery), it will NOT recharge, period. It isn't safe to do so. Attempting to charge it could result in a fire. I presume that all of these Shorai, EarthX, etc will have circuitry to prevent the fires and force-charging, so that is probably not a worry.

The reason I mention this, is that if you let that battery run down just once, be it accidentally leaving an aux light on, or heated grips, or whatever, your expensive battery is done for. AGM and other traditional battery types can usually be restored if you get a charge to them soon enough, such as bump starting the bike or boosting it. It wont run as well, but it will get you home, and will probably run fine for the rest of the season at least.

So, if you can 100% guarantee you won't run down the battery in the 8 years you hope to have the LiPo, then excellent, no worries. I just look at it that accidents happen, and I don't want to be 100% stuck after walking through a national park because I left something plugged in. Just my $0.02


That's fact !
I've found out the hard way that I'm not perfect :-[ that's why I will NOT use a ... LiPo  in my bike AGM all the way...
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Offline JS_racer

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2015, 01:19:42 pm »
For off road riders, having a dead battery with no one around is a big deal.  Earthx sells a small portable jump pack if that is a concern on the C-14..

http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/earthx-jump-pack/


I like that one, this is in my Amazon wish list for future purchase.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FDYYK4A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=29PVRE1VWEWLV&coliid=I2J2X8PZNE1LF0


i have a very similar one at work, as a mechanic i have to jump vehicles from time to time, this works great!! and is able to charge say a phone or other devices very quickly. might have to start bringing it on my longer rides.

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2015, 08:09:51 pm »
I'm concerned as well about the cold weather out here in the north!!  Where's the best place to purchase a shorai battery ??
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Offline cuda

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2015, 02:09:59 am »
I'm concerned as well about the cold weather out here in the north!!  Where's the best place to purchase a shorai battery ??

I've got three real cheap!
They don't work anymore , but hey three for $ 30.00 only $10.00 per , no brainer!
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2015, 02:23:13 am »
I'm concerned as well about the cold weather out here in the north!!  Where's the best place to purchase a shorai battery ??

Amazon always has them. That's where I got my 21.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2015, 01:07:41 am »
My KTM has taken a few deep water swims and after draining the water from the air filter box I can crank the engine seemingly  forever on those Shorai's. They are amazing batteries but I think my next one will be a EarthX.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2015, 10:51:56 am »
So far so good on my Earthx ETX 24C.  I also picked up the Jump Pack.  With the Battery Management System not allowing a discharge below 9 volts, and the ability to give it a quick jump from the battery pack if I ever goof up and leave the bike on, I think I will be starting my ride for a long time.  Not a cheap solution, but neither is getting stranded.  I'll continue to test.

There are some Youtube videos showing Snowmobiles starting at -35 deg.  The Snow mobiles reviews are raving about the cold weather performance.   

« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 11:52:33 am by 4Bikes »
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Offline andydude

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Re: Shorai Battery
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2015, 08:56:09 pm »
Are the earthx as light as the shorai's ??
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