Author Topic: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery  (Read 5317 times)

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Offline Moto Madness

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Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« on: August 26, 2011, 03:55:53 pm »
Last Winter in our Concours magazine, a writer wrote about this new battery and was to get back to us as to road/life testing.  I now need a new battery and would like comments on what to buy.  thanks to all!
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 04:13:44 pm »
That was my article. So far the battery is holding up well, but I've only had it in the bike since about mid December, so it's still a bit too early for me to release any long term testing results.

The advantages of it are the reduced weight and increased capacity and supposedly longer lifespan. The downside is the cost and that it doesn't fit the battery box in the C14 as well as the OEM, so be prepared to get a little creative on the installation if you get one.

I also have some questions out to the engineers at Shorai about the recharge current demands this new battery places on the alternator after engine start up that so far I haven't gotten answers to. I may have to do some testing of my own and see how it compares to the load a normal battery puts on the alternator.
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Offline Moto Madness

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 01:50:28 pm »
Thanks Fred.  The fact they are not responding surprises me.  I am not too concerned about price as long as it's within reason but due to their lack of customer/engineering support as well as unknown historic data yet available, I'll likely stick to the OEM for now.

Please keep your excellent reports coming and of course all the other assistance you are to us Connie owners!

Moto~
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 02:36:38 pm »
With this battery, is there circuitry built in to allow the Lithium to Charge correctly?  (If Lithium Iron is charged incorrectly does it explode or catch fire the way LIPO or LIION can?)

It's an interesting concept they say it lasts longer but my question is does that length of life equal the cost differential :) If it does then I could see myself springing for one of these when the time comes to replace the battery.

I see some people are all over this battery for the weight savings,  but in all honesty, what kind of difference are we talking about? 10 lbs at most saved, and with most street bikes IMHO, unless you are Valentino Rossi you aren't going to be flogging it hard enough where you would notice the lighter battery....

But I am curious to see what kind of lifespan you get out of it :)
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2011, 12:19:46 am »
No, the Lithium Iron batteries do not pose the risk of fire or explosions that Lithium ION batteries do.

I sent out some questions to their engineers about recharge current rates last week and I think they are looking into it, but I just haven't gotten an official response from them yet.
Fred H.


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Offline scjaws

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 04:47:51 pm »
I bought a Shorai in Feb., and it quit in April when I tried charging it with my new Shorai charger.  I emailed Shorai and they sent me a new battery very quickly.
The old one would only charge to 10 volts which the tech from Shorai said was a common failure ( I think about 4%), with one cell dying.

At any rate the service was prompt and painless.
BTW, I agree with Fred about how long it takes to get back to 14.3 volts after starting.  It always gets there but it sure seems to take longer then the stocker.

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 06:32:23 pm »
That is another question I have,   if you let a Lead Acid discharge, it could damage a cell but the battery will still work for a while....if you discharge a Lithium Iron,  can it come back to charge or is it pretty much toast?? 

Not trying to be difficult here, I like the idea of new technology but I just don't know enough about it yet...
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2011, 11:32:46 am »
I'm in the process of doing a long term test on these batteries. Its a bit too early for me to say how they will perform yet, as I haven't even had them in the bike for a full year yet.

My immediate questions are about the recharge current rate (alternator loading) immediately after engine start. I may need to put an ammeter on the alternator and see how the recharge current compares to a conventional battery.
Fred H.


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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 04:13:24 pm »
I just got a message from the engineer at Shorai and he told me that the recharge current needed for this battery should not be an issue. Though I may still do some testing of my own just to confirm this.
Fred H.


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Offline scjaws

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2011, 03:05:17 pm »
I got stranded yesterday by my second Shorai. (First one died in April.) Came out of Mickey Ds and could not turn on the key.  A friend drove me home where I grabbed some tools and a a spare battery,

Sure enough, the Shorai was reading only 4 volts. Replaced the battery and all was well in the world again.

Came home, put the Shorai on a standard charger and it came ip to 12.32 volts after a couple of hours.

I will put the Shorai back in the bike later today to see what happens, but I'm beginning to not trust them.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 09:59:30 pm »
I got stranded yesterday by my second Shorai. (First one died in April.) Came out of Mickey Ds and could not turn on the key.  A friend drove me home where I grabbed some tools and a a spare battery,

Sure enough, the Shorai was reading only 4 volts. Replaced the battery and all was well in the world again.

Came home, put the Shorai on a standard charger and it came ip to 12.32 volts after a couple of hours.

I will put the Shorai back in the bike later today to see what happens, but I'm beginning to not trust them.

I just got a message from the engineer at Shorai and he told me that the recharge current needed for this battery should not be an issue. Though I may still do some testing of my own just to confirm this.


both statements have a lot to say about this battery.....
I would not be satisfied with a vague statement like the one they gave you Fred, it just bears they need to provide more specific info, hell, Oddyssy gives the data, Shor-a ought to also, if they want that kind of money.
failures on a "cell" rendering a pack like this useless is poor quality control, and I have issues with that also, for $$$ purchases.

as for discharge cycle, remember that dropping any cell in a pack below 3v will cause irreperable damage to a cell, and the battery. My pals in the RC plane junkie syndrome craank LIPO packs at extreme rates with special anylytical chargers, that will discharge and recharge at phenomonal rates, saving the life and extending it.....I have a feeling the C14 charging system isn't the "ideal" means of retaining battery life.

I'll hold off on these till they start getting them right....
jmho

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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2011, 12:44:27 pm »
The RC plane batteries are a bit different,  those are LIPO (Lithium Polymer ) batteries and not only require special charging equipment to prolong the life, they require computerized chargers just to charge a otherwise a fire can occur  :-\     Most of what the RC world does to prolong life and get the most out of the pack isn't so much charging as it is balancing the cells (Making sure each cell in the pack is at the exact same charge level from both Voltage and Mah)    With today's brushless motors and LIPO packs, my Electric planes are actually MORE powerful and give me longer flight times then my gas/glow stuff did

The Shora is a Lithium IRON (not ION as the title suggests) battery, from what I am reading they are much more tolerant of standard charging systems.  But I suspect it is MUCH more sensitive to an over-discharge situation then a comparable Lead Acid battery would be.

I think it's a neat technology,  but aside from weight savings I just don't see the point,  it's a much more sensitive battery, it takes longer to charge (I think) if one cell fails the entire pack is bad, it's way more expensive etc etc etc...   

I just don't see the point of taking on all those potential headaches for 10 lbs of savings on a 600+ lb motorcycle....  If you want to have that kind of gain, go to the gym and eat healthy for a month,  costs way less and will give you the same results 
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Offline Restless

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2011, 03:56:56 pm »
The RC plane batteries are a bit different,  those are LIPO (Lithium Polymer ) batteries and not only require special charging equipment to prolong the life, they require computerized chargers just to charge a otherwise a fire can occur  :-\     Most of what the RC world does to prolong life and get the most out of the pack isn't so much charging as it is balancing the cells (Making sure each cell in the pack is at the exact same charge level from both Voltage and Mah)    With today's brushless motors and LIPO packs, my Electric planes are actually MORE powerful and give me longer flight times then my gas/glow stuff did

The Shora is a Lithium IRON (not ION as the title suggests) battery, from what I am reading they are much more tolerant of standard charging systems.  But I suspect it is MUCH more sensitive to an over-discharge situation then a comparable Lead Acid battery would be.

I think it's a neat technology,  but aside from weight savings I just don't see the point,  it's a much more sensitive battery, it takes longer to charge (I think) if one cell fails the entire pack is bad, it's way more expensive etc etc etc...   

I just don't see the point of taking on all those potential headaches for 10 lbs of savings on a 600+ lb motorcycle....  If you want to have that kind of gain, go to the gym and eat healthy for a month,  costs way less and will give you the same results

 :iagree:  +1 Until they get it right, I think I'll stick with the "old" technology batteries followed by some diet & exercise!   :rotflmao:   :beerchug:
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Offline 911ZG guy

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2011, 12:55:23 am »
I just started scouring the C14 forum this week- formerly on a C10 . Due to that bike's excellent support on the "other" board, I bought an Odyssey battery. That thing is FANTASTIC. My C-10 would oftentimes sit for weeks, and, with the Odyssey it always starts. With the OEM lead acid batt, that was not always the case. When I get to the time to replace the battery in the 14, I will look for an Odyssey.

 That said- does anyone here know anything about the Bikemaster TruGel battery? It looks to me that BM is trying to build a battery that people who are willing topay more for their batteries will buyfrom BM.

 The REALLY light weight of the Shorai is impressive, but if failure rates are even slightly higher than a low-priced lead-acid battery, they are not for me.

Offline Tundra Tom

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Re: Shorai Lithium Ion Battery
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2011, 12:29:49 pm »
Personally would not buy one for weight savings on a 680 lb. Motorcycle.  ::)
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