Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Accessories C14 => Topic started by: BDF on May 20, 2013, 11:42:07 pm

Title: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 20, 2013, 11:42:07 pm
Moderators- not sure where this goes so please move it as needed.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/Lowfuelwarningharness.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/BDF08012008/media/Lowfuelwarningharness.jpg.html)

So how many folks here have had the low fuel warning surprise them? OK, put down your hands. Now, how many here have been so surprised by the warning that he / she got into a vehicular accident over it? OK, put down your hand. And that concludes the humor portion of our post.

I have conjured up a plug 'n play device that fits a C-14 and eliminates the low fuel warning. The fuel gauge works as it always did other but the low fuel warning is suppressed. But the really nice feature of this device, at least to me, is that the range indicator will continue to work as the fuel level drops. No more "Low Fuel" displayed on the Range page at the very moment it is most useful- after all, who really cares if there is 175 or 190 miles left in the tank? But the difference between 12 miles and -3 miles is pretty important. Please do bear in mind though that the range indicator is a calculated product rather than an exact amount or to put it literally, your mileage may vary from the display, especially at extremely low numbers. I have successfully used the range indicator down to 7 miles remaining at which point the bike was still running but the <nominal> 5.8 gallon fuel tank took 6.04 gallons.

Now for the very best part of this seemingly magical device- it is a no tools, no disassembly / reassembly required install! Yep, you can literally install it in a couple of minutes with no tools, no wiring and no permanent modification to your bike! Fully removable too so the bike can be returned to stock at any time (but let's face it, who would want to remove such a wonderful thing?).

Now I know what a lot of you are thinking- how could anyone put a price on such a marvelous piece of technology? How could it be made available to mere mortals and be able to be enjoyed by thousands, nay, millions of C-14 owners? Well great news- we have worked late into the mid- morning and established an economic cost for such an invaluable product! And remember, nothing but the best components used- OEM or better (better wire): at the moment is $50 and includes shipping in the CONUS. Shipping elsewhere and / or insurance added at actual USPS cost.

The circuit is installed in the wiring just under the saddle.

This is a photo of the device- actually two devices but you will receive only one, most likely either the one in the upper or lower part of the photo.

This is a completely vegan product and no animals were harmed during the construction of this device.

E-mail me if you have any questions or would like to discuss this device further; my e-mail is just under my name on this page.

Brian
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: slidebite on May 20, 2013, 11:49:35 pm
Will it also get rid of the TPMS low battery warning?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: TimR on May 20, 2013, 11:55:38 pm
I moved the thread because it's more of and accessories. My question is why not just push the two buttons under the dash as per the manual to turn low fuel warning off?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 21, 2013, 12:11:18 am
No. Unfortunately that one is a radio link and would require a stronger radio link or hacking into the LCD on each bike. There isn't even a decent way to make changing / replacing the batteries easier that I can figure out. If only Kawasaki had put the sensors on the outside of the wheels, eh?

Brian

Will it also get rid of the TPMS low battery warning?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 21, 2013, 12:18:02 am
The thread move is fine by me.

Yep, you can turn off the warning that way (Press and hold the top button, press and release the bottom button, release the top button for those who do not know already) but you cannot get the range function to work no matter what you do. Also a lot of people have complained about remembering the button sequence or have trouble operating the buttons when wearing heavy winter gloves. My own personal reason for eliminating the warning is that I wanted to see the range remaining when low on fuel in the northwest of the US, usually late at night. The range function is calculated in realtime so if you have, say, 40 miles of range remaining at, say, 82 MPH, you may have 50 or 55 miles left at 60 MPH. It can make a big difference if the next sizable city is 38 miles away when the warning goes off. Now I just flip my display to the range function when the fuel gauge reads empty. But certainly this is not something that everyone will find useful or of any value.

Brian

I moved the thread because it's more of and accessories. My question is why not just push the two buttons under the dash as per the manual to turn low fuel warning off?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: LSGiant on May 21, 2013, 12:29:36 am
Sold

PM to follow. I assume you take Paypal
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: PaleRider on May 21, 2013, 02:08:39 am
Just so I understand, plug it in and that's it? forever. Fuel counts down to zero or until you put more fuel in it?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: DGOLD on May 21, 2013, 03:24:45 am
Does the Red light come still when very low on fuel?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JPavlis_CA on May 21, 2013, 03:35:59 am
Count me in for one. I'm usually in the middle of doing mental calculations of what's left when the damn thing goes off and I have no numbers to refer to.

Check your messages.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: millsan1 on May 21, 2013, 03:50:21 am
ooooo gimme gimme gimmme
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JS_racer on May 21, 2013, 11:18:19 am
does the fuel level still blink or give other indicators ?? just dislike the shift indicator being lost, and the obnoxious low fuel. hardly ever use the range

sooo who will be first to run out after not paying attention and loosing the warning we all hate, lol.

do the 10's hit the mode button on the bar to get past it or does everyone need to do the two button tango like my 09 ??
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on May 21, 2013, 11:39:20 am
Is this considered a farkle??  :rotflmao: gotta have it!!!  >:D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: jonathan on May 21, 2013, 01:28:03 pm
So how does this work and where do you install it?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on May 21, 2013, 02:10:05 pm
I want one !
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 21, 2013, 03:45:44 pm
Yes but there is a caveat: the range remaining is an estimate and although pretty accurate, it is not perfect and I would treat it with a bit of respect. Put another way, I the bike will NOT reliably run OUT OF FUEL when the range indicator counts down to 0 [zero]. It could well run out of fuel with 2 or 4 miles of range still showing. I believe this is why Kawasaki shuts off the range indicator when the low fuel point is reached- so that they are not enabling people to run out of fuel. By giving the rider this information it is important to also tell the rider that it is an estimate and should never use the range indicator as an exact function, it is an estimate. I routinely allow my tank to 15 miles and have gone as low as 7 but have never and would never allow it to go below, say, 5 miles. Even when the range indicator read 7 miles the tank took 6.04 gallons (I always overfill the fuel tank) so I do not know if I really had 7 miles of fuel left.

Otherwise, yes, it is just a wiring harness that installs like an extension cord into the bike's harness and nothing more has to be done by the rider. If you do not like it or sell the bike to someone who does not like it, it is a simple matter to simply unplug this harness and remove it from the bike, which will then act just as it did before the harness was installed.

Brian


Just so I understand, plug it in and that's it? forever. Fuel counts down to zero or until you put more fuel in it?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gigantor on May 21, 2013, 03:56:43 pm
OK this is a farkle so what's not to love about it.  I have to have it, put me down for one.  On my ride back from Bedford my low fuel warning light came on and it is super annoying, can't tell which gear I'm in or anything else.  How do we go about ordering one? If the orders go geographically I should be close to the top  ;).
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 21, 2013, 04:49:15 pm
No. Once the harness is installed there will not be any further warnings of any kind. The fuel gauge will work of course, and setting a trip meter when filling up so you know how many miles you've gone on a tank is a good idea and the range function will now always show a reading (an approximate reading!).

As I think I already mentioned, this is probably not a good idea for those who appreciate the reminder of the low fuel warning or tend to not be attentive enough to the fuel level. A perfect example would be riding a lot of short distances and not really paying attention to the fuel gauge; instead of a very visible warning the bike will simply run out of fuel and it will only show the range declining if the rider is using that specific page of the display. So again, this modification has its downside and I want anyone who may want one of these to think about how he / she uses the bike and whether or not the fuel warning has been useful to him / her in the past- if so it would probably be best to pass on this farkle.

Brian

Does the Red light come still when very low on fuel?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 21, 2013, 04:58:30 pm
You'll always be on the top of my list Alex.... :-) 

To be fair to everyone, that low fuel warning can be shut down by using the buttons on the dash. The sequence is:

Press and hold the top button.
Press and release the bottom button.
Release the top button.

The display will clear, the top / left red warning LED will illuminate and you can use all the functions of the display other than the range display. I do not want anyone to think the display can be cleared only by using this circuit, and I do not want anyone to buy this thing thinking it is the only way to eliminate that nasty warning screen. What this thing does is stop the warning from ever starting in the first place, and it also causes the range function to continue to work no matter what the fuel level in the tank. But to clear the warning screen Kawasaki has already provided a method- you do not need to buy or add anything to the bike for that purpose alone.

So think about it for a bit and please feel free to NOT buy one if you (and of course anyone else) changes your mind, even if you thought you wanted one at first. I really do want happy customers and do not want anyone to feel obligated in any way to purchase anything from me. The royalties alone on The Cat Joke will support me for hundreds of years into the future.

Brian

OK this is a farkle so what's not to love about it.  I have to have it, put me down for one.  On my ride back from Bedford my low fuel warning light came on and it is super annoying, can't tell which gear I'm in or anything else.  How do we go about ordering one? If the orders go geographically I should be close to the top  ;).
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 21, 2013, 05:05:31 pm
If you just want to clear the warning display and don't use the range function, you absolutely do not need to buy one of these. You can clear any warning (not errors) including the low fuel warning by using the buttons on the dash. The sequence is:

Press and hold the top button.
Press and release the bottom button.
Release the top button.

The display will clear the warning (if multiple warnings you will have to use the buttons to clear each one individually) and return to its normal state other than the last bar on the fuel gauge flashing and the range function now displaying "Low Fuel" instead of the remaining range. I would suggest trying to quiet the warning with the buttons before buying one of these and then decide if it will be useful to you or not.

As far as running out of fuel, yep that is probably more of a problem with this device installed because the range function continues to display the distance it has calculated remains whether that calculation is exactly right or not. In the end it is up to the rider not to run out of fuel but unfortunately watching it count down instills an incorrect level of confidence in some people I think. I would not allow it to go below, say, 10 or 15 miles remaining because it is an estimate and not an exactly known distance.

Brian

does the fuel level still blink or give other indicators ?? just dislike the shift indicator being lost, and the obnoxious low fuel. hardly ever use the range

sooo who will be first to run out after not paying attention and loosing the warning we all hate, lol.

do the 10's hit the mode button on the bar to get past it or does everyone need to do the two button tango like my 09 ??
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 21, 2013, 05:09:51 pm
21 May 2013- sold out. I will contact the folks who got in on the sale and try to remember who wanted one but I will post again when I have them in stock (end of this week or beginning of next).

Of course I do not want anyone who tried to order one to feel obligated to buy one. I did not have many in stock and apologize for running out so quickly.

Thanks for the interest.

Brian
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on May 21, 2013, 06:09:08 pm
put me on the list!! i want one too.  :great: please I.M. me when you have more in stock. thanx.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on May 21, 2013, 06:57:27 pm
Now that I can't have one, I want it so much more!  While I know how to disable that low fuel alarm, it is dangerous if not downright impossible to do it while riding.  It's a PIA to pull over to clear the alarm.  I think this has merit.  Between the GPS fuel gauge, the odometer, and gas gauge, I doubt I would run out of gas and be surprised without the warning.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: FSR402 on May 22, 2013, 01:11:21 am
Please put me on the list for one also.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 1965soda on May 22, 2013, 08:11:49 pm
This is really a great idea Brian...thanks for sharing your expertise and skills with fellow COGers.  There was on question I read that I don't believe you answered.....

With your solution installed, does the last bar of the fuel guage retain it's blinking feature when the bike reaches low fuel?

Thanks!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 23, 2013, 04:02:26 pm
No, no more blinking bar on the fuel gauge. That too is part of the overall 'low fuel' condition and will no longer function. Too bad too 'cause that one wasn't intrusive and may have useful. But it is a package built into the system- you either get them all or you get none and this device leaves us with none.

So to be as clear as possible, with one of these things installed, the fuel gauge works as normal except that the last bar will not blink and will always be black (with the letter 'E' in it). That leaves I think 5 bars of fuel usage; at that point the last bar goes clear I kick the display over to the range function and leave it there. Should a tire spring a leak the display will automatically display a warning no matter what page you are on once the pressure hits a certain level which is 32 PSI as I remember. Of course you can toggle through the screens as always with the added benefit that the range display will display the actual range remaining rather than "Low Fuel" and for you Gen. 2 C-14 owners you can do it with the trigger switch on the left handlebar. We Gen. 1 owners have that switch but it is a flash- to- pass switch and does not effect the display.

Brian

This is really a great idea Brian...thanks for sharing your expertise and skills with fellow COGers.  There was on question I read that I don't believe you answered.....

With your solution installed, does the last bar of the fuel guage retain it's blinking feature when the bike reaches low fuel?

Thanks!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: ST eater on May 23, 2013, 09:25:36 pm
On my 04 ST, the fuel count down would go to 20mi left when on reserve. That's one thing I liked about that fuel gauge, no taking over the whole screen and it had a count down. But the first time it flatlined with 20mi to go, I thought I was in deep do do! :-[ these bikes would not be fun to push. I want one of these, I really dislike the current set up.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: PaleRider on May 23, 2013, 09:44:16 pm
On my 04 ST, the fuel count down would go to 20mi left when on reserve. That's one thing I liked about that fuel gauge, no taking over the whole screen and it had a count down. But the first time it flatlined with 20mi to go, I thought I was in deep do do! :-[ these bikes would not be fun to push. I want one of these, I really dislike the current set up.

Yes, automatically, as soon as it hit reserve it started counting backward  based on the your current MPG. It was pretty darn accurate. Don't mean to say was as I can see my 04 ST1300 from where I am sitting in my shop.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Cap'n Bob on May 23, 2013, 10:07:23 pm
On my 04 ST, the fuel count down would go to 20mi left when on reserve. That's one thing I liked about that fuel gauge, no taking over the whole screen and it had a count down. But the first time it flatlined with 20mi to go, I thought I was in deep do do! :-[ these bikes would not be fun to push. I want one of these, I really dislike the current set up.


   I kind of like how the FJR does it. When it goes on low fuel warning, you get a small warning on the screen to go along with the other existing information. The only change to said information is that the odometer/trip gage then starts counting from zero. It's a how far you have traveled since you went on low warning  deal rather than how far you might be able to go. (just my preference) I like that a little better than how far I might be able to go. although neither hurts to have.
     Although the truth be told, I get very anxious about fuel levels. So I try to find fuel before I get to the low fuel warnings. But if it does come on, I find a station as soon a possible. I have seen reserves that didn't pick up anywhere near the amount of fuel they are suppose to have. (The Kawasaki Mean Streak is notorious for this) So I try not to chance fate (or running out) Of course I have the luxury of living on the east coast where fuel stations tend to be in fairly close proximity compared to other parts of the country, or world for that matter.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 24, 2013, 12:03:03 am
Yep, there are different ways to use warnings / indicators and some are better than others. That said, the whole thing is really everyone's opinion anyway; look at the folks who want taller / shorter handlebars, taller / shorter windshields, etc. etc. So in the end the mfg. has to pick one and forge ahead.

Never had an FJR so cannot comment on the way they display anything but obviously I think the C-14 display can be improved.

Good point about where we live and ride. Here in southern New England fuel isn't much of a problem nor is the time of day you want it. Not so much in Wyoming though where there are long stretches of highway either without many fuel stations or stretches where the fuel stations shut down at night.

I guess my biggest personal complaint with the C-14 is the range display; it shuts down at the only time I care about what it might be telling me- when I am low on fuel. Everything else I could live with and while the warning display is annoying, it  can be shut down given enough tries at the magic button sequence. The range disappearing just cannot be dealt with, at least with anything Kawasaki provides.

Low fuel on the C-14 seems to be notoriously accurate though and it is absolutely repeatable. Same thing with the volume of the fuel tank- Kawasaki claims 5.8 gallons but every one I have seen will hold over 6 gallons. Not a big deal maybe but much, much better than the occasional one holding 5.5 gallons (surprise!).

Brian


   I kind of like how the FJR does it. When it goes on low fuel warning, you get a small warning on the screen to go along with the other existing information. The only change to said information is that the odometer/trip gage then starts counting from zero. It's a how far you have traveled since you went on low warning  deal rather than how far you might be able to go. (just my preference) I like that a little better than how far I might be able to go. although neither hurts to have.
     Although the truth be told, I get very anxious about fuel levels. So I try to find fuel before I get to the low fuel warnings. But if it does come on, I find a station as soon a possible. I have seen reserves that didn't pick up anywhere near the amount of fuel they are suppose to have. (The Kawasaki Mean Streak is notorious for this) So I try not to chance fate (or running out) Of course I have the luxury of living on the east coast where fuel stations tend to be in fairly close proximity compared to other parts of the country, or world for that matter.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: LSGiant on May 27, 2013, 11:04:32 am
Received mine on Friday, have not had chance to install yet but the instructions look good and the process looks very simple.

Great idea and great service

Thanks
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mattchewn on May 27, 2013, 11:31:50 am
Hey,
I just had a great idea! How about you don't run the tank to empty all the time and then you don't get that pesky warning thingy? Having been a mechanic/tech for many years I am not a fan of running any fuel tanks down towards the bottom if it is avoidable. I will explain why; On FI motors in bikes, cars, etc. the fuel pump is cooled off by the fuel in the tank and the lower the fuel level the less the cooling ability. Notice your tank starts getting warmer as you run the level lower.  Also, the lower the level of fuel the harder the pump has to work to maintain fuel pressure at the correct level. In cages, and most probably in bikes as well, running the fuel level low allows the fuel to slosh in the tank excessively and that stirs up any trash that may have found its' way into your tank, (trust me it is there), and it the gets picked up by your expensive fuel pump. In my truck I rarely run below 1/4 tank.
JMO, and what do I know anyway?
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech 1995-2005.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: lather on May 27, 2013, 12:30:28 pm
I think I would like this mod for trips but not for commuting. Is it fairly easy to put on and take off?
If so count me in on the next batch.

Yep, there are different ways to use warnings / indicators and some are better than others. That said, the whole thing is really everyone's opinion anyway; look at the folks who want taller / shorter handlebars, taller / shorter windshields, etc. etc. So in the end the mfg. has to pick one and forge ahead.

Never had an FJR so cannot comment on the way they display anything but obviously I think the C-14 display can be improved.

Good point about where we live and ride. Here in southern New England fuel isn't much of a problem nor is the time of day you want it. Not so much in Wyoming though where there are long stretches of highway either without many fuel stations or stretches where the fuel stations shut down at night.

I guess my biggest personal complaint with the C-14 is the range display; it shuts down at the only time I care about what it might be telling me- when I am low on fuel. Everything else I could live with and while the warning display is annoying, it  can be shut down given enough tries at the magic button sequence. The range disappearing just cannot be dealt with, at least with anything Kawasaki provides.

Low fuel on the C-14 seems to be notoriously accurate though and it is absolutely repeatable. Same thing with the volume of the fuel tank- Kawasaki claims 5.8 gallons but every one I have seen will hold over 6 gallons. Not a big deal maybe but much, much better than the occasional one holding 5.5 gallons (surprise!).

Brian


   I kind of like how the FJR does it. When it goes on low fuel warning, you get a small warning on the screen to go along with the other existing information. The only change to said information is that the odometer/trip gage then starts counting from zero. It's a how far you have traveled since you went on low warning  deal rather than how far you might be able to go. (just my preference) I like that a little better than how far I might be able to go. although neither hurts to have.
     Although the truth be told, I get very anxious about fuel levels. So I try to find fuel before I get to the low fuel warnings. But if it does come on, I find a station as soon a possible. I have seen reserves that didn't pick up anywhere near the amount of fuel they are suppose to have. (The Kawasaki Mean Streak is notorious for this) So I try not to chance fate (or running out) Of course I have the luxury of living on the east coast where fuel stations tend to be in fairly close proximity compared to other parts of the country, or world for that matter.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 27, 2013, 01:06:28 pm
Well it sounds like you have some solid opinions that you use to operate your equipment. Good for you, and the best of luck with your technique.

I would mention that your physics is a bit off though. The whole 'fuel tank gets warmer' when the fuel level is low is not correct; if the fuel is what is cooling the pump, where does the heat in the fuel itself go? Yep, it passes through the fuel into the walls of the tank and out into the universe (thereby keeping the entropy in the universe constantly increasing). So no matter what the fuel level, the fuel pump will always generate the same amount of heat and the fuel level cannot increase or decrease that heat, only transfer it.

As far as stirring up crud in the tank, the fuel pump is located in the lowest part of a sloped fuel tank on the C-14; all the crud had already settled around the pump. As fuel pumps draw fuel in from the bottom, the fuel system was already exposed to everything in there. Your pickup truck is not a valid comparison because the tank is much wider / longer and has multiple flat planes along the bottom.

I have never been certified by the ASE and of course, will not discuss my bonifides so as always, I advise everyone reading this to weigh the information given, judge the writers and come to your own conclusions.

Brian

Hey,
I just had a great idea! How about you don't run the tank to empty all the time and then you don't get that pesky warning thingy? Having been a mechanic/tech for many years I am not a fan of running any fuel tanks down towards the bottom if it is avoidable. I will explain why; On FI motors in bikes, cars, etc. the fuel pump is cooled off by the fuel in the tank and the lower the fuel level the less the cooling ability. Notice your tank starts getting warmer as you run the level lower.  Also, the lower the level of fuel the harder the pump has to work to maintain fuel pressure at the correct level. In cages, and most probably in bikes as well, running the fuel level low allows the fuel to slosh in the tank excessively and that stirs up any trash that may have found its' way into your tank, (trust me it is there), and it the gets picked up by your expensive fuel pump. In my truck I rarely run below 1/4 tank.
JMO, and what do I know anyway?
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech 1995-2005.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 27, 2013, 01:11:46 pm
Pretty easy- other than taking off the saddle, easier than changing a headlight IMO. It is nothing more than what amounts to an extension cord type of harness that plugs into a harness on the bike. Exactly like the KiPass activation switch bypass but this harness on the bike is easier to get to and requires no tools or removal of bike parts.

Brian

I think I would like this mod for trips but not for commuting. Is it fairly easy to put on and take off?
If so count me in on the next batch.

Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 27, 2013, 01:16:05 pm
Thanks for the kind words.

Well, that's it folks- these things are loose in the wild now and there won't be any stopping the process. Yep, from now on each and every single time you see a C-14 anywhere in the world, you will have to wonder.....'Does THAT bike have one of those neat low fuel warning eliminators?'

 :rotflmao:

Please do let us know how the install goes and how you like it.

Brian

Received mine on Friday, have not had chance to install yet but the instructions look good and the process looks very simple.

Great idea and great service

Thanks
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: lather on May 27, 2013, 02:17:22 pm
Pretty easy- other than taking off the saddle, easier than changing a headlight IMO. It is nothing more than what amounts to an extension cord type of harness that plugs into a harness on the bike. Exactly like the KiPass activation switch bypass but this harness on the bike is easier to get to and requires no tools or removal of bike parts.

Brian

I think I would like this mod for trips but not for commuting. Is it fairly easy to put on and take off?
If so count me in on the next batch.

Sounds great. I will just plug it in whenever I head out of state but for commuting I will still rely on that helpful pesky red light to remind me to get gas.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on May 27, 2013, 07:08:48 pm
Any idea when more will be available??  >:D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 27, 2013, 07:33:11 pm
Yeah, yesterday and those are all gone too, or at least the people on the list have been made aware of how to proceed with the purchase. Now I am out of some key components and cannot have any more until the end of this week at the earliest.

It is tough to predict the sales of things like this- how many for an initial order.... 20, 50, 200? The components are expensive and I do not want to stock them and manufacturer, say, 200 circuits only to have 15 sell. On the other hand, if I put together 50 of them and get 75 orders in 24 hours, I cannot get the components and quickly enough that I feel comfortable selling the product in advance; several of the parts come from Japan and even with air shipping it takes a bit of time to clear US customs. The next batch of long- lead items has been ordered, and I will order more of everything procured in the US tomorrow (holiday today) and once everything arrives, I promise to whip those elves and not allow them food or bathroom breaks until every last 'I want one' is satisfied. Sure it's hard on the elves but we are motorcyclists and should not have to wait one extra second for our farkles :-)

Seriously, I am on it and will provide product as soon as possible. Thanks for the interest.

Have also ordered Japanese components for the next trinket which I think some folks are going to like. We will see. There isn't an orifice on a C-14 that I have not thought of plugging something into.... wait, I mean adding electronical (one of my very favorite words)  farkles of course.

Brian

Any idea when more will be available??  >:D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on May 27, 2013, 08:18:56 pm
Still want one, and sent you a PM too.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mattchewn on May 27, 2013, 08:34:55 pm
Quote:
I would mention that your physics is a bit off though. The whole 'fuel tank gets warmer' when the fuel level is low is not correct; if the fuel is what is cooling the pump, where does the heat in the fuel itself go? Yep, it passes through the fuel into the walls of the tank and out into the universe (thereby keeping the entropy in the universe constantly increasing). So no matter what the fuel level, the fuel pump will always generate the same amount of heat and the fuel level cannot increase or decrease that heat, only transfer it.


    Actually the physics are flawless. More fuel in the tank means more surface area to distribute heat= faster transfer and lower total heat buildup. As the fuel level decreases the ability to dissipate heat is subsequently diminished. Thereby increasing the average temperature of the fuel.  Think of trying to cool your favorite beverage  standing up in a cooler with one inch of ice in the bottom. In your math it will cool the entire beverage just as fast and as cold as if the cooler was full to the top with ice and therefore completely covering the outer surface of said beverage. You might want to reexamine your thermal dynamics principals.
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: LSGiant on May 27, 2013, 10:20:24 pm
Farkle installed. It took less then ten seconds. I have already had my tank off so the plug in was readily accessible. Now i just have to run the tank empty to test.

Matt, as far as putting fuel in at 1/4 or more. I came off a C10 so this tank is already to small. To cut it back by another 25% is totally unacceptable for the way I ride.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JimA on May 27, 2013, 10:56:36 pm
On my 04 ST, the fuel count down would go to 20mi left when on reserve. That's one thing I liked about that fuel gauge, no taking over the whole screen and it had a count down. But the first time it flatlined with 20mi to go, I thought I was in deep do do! :-[ these bikes would not be fun to push. I want one of these, I really dislike the current set up.
The current generation of Yamaha FJR's activate a third trip meter when the fuel gets low. You always have two trip meters, like the Connie, but then you get a "Reserve" trip that counts up from zero to tell you how long you've been on "reserve." They leave it to you to figure out how far you can go on 1.5 gallons. I liked that set-up.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 27, 2013, 11:05:19 pm
Er..... well, let me take one more stab at this for the innocent that might be following along- and my explanation does not require or depend on beer or the bottles that may contain it.

If you have a given device (the fuel pump) that puts out a fixed amount of heat (it does as the energy going into it is constant), the surrounding medium MUST dissipate that amount of heat. All heat generated by the fuel pump only has two outlets; the fuel going out to the engine, which we can treat as a constant but in any event the amount of cooling done through that medium is small, and the shell of the fuel tank itself because it houses the fuel pump. The fuel in-between the heat generating unit (the pump) and the elimination of that heat from our model (the motorcycle itself, specifically the outer wall of the fuel tank) does not impact the amount of heat transferred.

By the way, it is not my physics or my math; others figured this out long ago, wrote it down and it has been passed along every since. Bernoulli's principle is not intuitive but it does seem to be correct.

At any rate, whatever works for you. Certainly there is nothing wrong with keeping a vehicle's fuel tank above a certain minimum, even if that minimum is arbitrary or different from other's minimum levels.

Have a nice day (seriously, not sarcastically).

Brian

Quote:
I would mention that your physics is a bit off though. The whole 'fuel tank gets warmer' when the fuel level is low is not correct; if the fuel is what is cooling the pump, where does the heat in the fuel itself go? Yep, it passes through the fuel into the walls of the tank and out into the universe (thereby keeping the entropy in the universe constantly increasing). So no matter what the fuel level, the fuel pump will always generate the same amount of heat and the fuel level cannot increase or decrease that heat, only transfer it.


    Actually the physics are flawless. More fuel in the tank means more surface area to distribute heat= faster transfer and lower total heat buildup. As the fuel level decreases the ability to dissipate heat is subsequently diminished. Thereby increasing the average temperature of the fuel.  Think of trying to cool your favorite beverage  standing up in a cooler with one inch of ice in the bottom. In your math it will cool the entire beverage just as fast and as cold as if the cooler was full to the top with ice and therefore completely covering the outer surface of said beverage. You might want to reexamine your thermal dynamics principals.
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 27, 2013, 11:07:11 pm
Glad the install went well for you.

I would just like to point out that there is no need nor any advantage whatsoever in removing the fuel tank to install this device. The wiring is readily accessible with the fuel tank in place and everything else in place on the motorcycle. I just don't want anyone to get the idea that removing the fuel tank is needed or even helps with the installation.

Brian

Farkle installed. It took less then ten seconds. I have already had my tank off so the plug in was readily accessible. Now i just have to run the tank empty to test.

Matt, as far as putting fuel in at 1/4 or more. I came off a C10 so this tank is already to small. To cut it back by another 25% is totally unacceptable for the way I ride.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mattchewn on May 27, 2013, 11:10:52 pm
LSGiant,
The 1/4 tank was in regards to my truck. Big tank, (38 gal) not far enough distances.  In my bike I run for 180-200 miles= not flashing yet, and then get fuel. Im not interested in finding out the maximum amount of fuel that my tank will hold, i.e. ran out. I know there are times when fuel is not readily available, or it aint convenient etc. I just want to keep things running as long as I can with a minimum of unscheduled maintenance. Please feel free to drive, fuel, (or not fuel) your bike, car, truck, lawnmowers, as u see fit!! Happy riding!
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 27, 2013, 11:14:21 pm
Yep, a different way to do things.

The way Kawasaki implements the range function, at least after it is allowed to work properly with the addition of a <ahem> particular gadget, is more reflective of how the vehicle is actually used. The odometer function tells the rider how many miles have been traveled since hitting the low fuel level that is not combined in any way with the currant rate of fuel usage. The range function on a C-14 does calculate the range based on the remaining fuel being consumed at the current rate so the rider can regulate the rate of fuel consumption by backing off the bike's speed for example, and have that change be reflected in real- time on the LCD range function. The FJR will display the miles traveled but the rider has no way to know the fuel consumption rate from the time the low fuel warning was reached; sure you can tell you've gone 25 miles for example but how many miles do you have on reserve at the current temperature, speed, altitude, and load on the engine?

Of course each of us will like or dislike different methods as we should I think. Besides, I cannot add a [low fuel miles traveled] function to the Kawasaki, only adjust what is already there.

Brian

The current generation of Yamaha FJR's activate a third trip meter when the fuel gets low. You always have two trip meters, like the Connie, but then you get a "Reserve" trip that counts up from zero to tell you how long you've been on "reserve." They leave it to you to figure out how far you can go on 1.5 gallons. I liked that set-up.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Pistole on May 28, 2013, 03:41:08 am
- re the heat issue :

- in a motorcycle application , the heat generated by the fuel pump in the tank is perhaps irrelevant when compared to the heat generated by that big engine underneath the tank cooking the tank (and whatever fuel there is in it).
.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Don Carruthers on May 28, 2013, 03:24:19 pm
Well it sounds like you have some solid opinions that you use to operate your equipment. Good for you, and the best of luck with your technique.

I would mention that your physics is a bit off though. The whole 'fuel tank gets warmer' when the fuel level is low is not correct; if the fuel is what is cooling the pump, where does the heat in the fuel itself go? Yep, it passes through the fuel into the walls of the tank and out into the universe (thereby keeping the entropy in the universe constantly increasing). So no matter what the fuel level, the fuel pump will always generate the same amount of heat and the fuel level cannot increase or decrease that heat, only transfer it.

As far as stirring up crud in the tank, the fuel pump is located in the lowest part of a sloped fuel tank on the C-14; all the crud had already settled around the pump. As fuel pumps draw fuel in from the bottom, the fuel system was already exposed to everything in there. Your pickup truck is not a valid comparison because the tank is much wider / longer and has multiple flat planes along the bottom.

I have never been certified by the ASE and of course, will not discuss my bonifides so as always, I advise everyone reading this to weigh the information given, judge the writers and come to your own conclusions.

Brian

Hey,
I just had a great idea! How about you don't run the tank to empty all the time and then you don't get that pesky warning thingy? Having been a mechanic/tech for many years I am not a fan of running any fuel tanks down towards the bottom if it is avoidable. I will explain why; On FI motors in bikes, cars, etc. the fuel pump is cooled off by the fuel in the tank and the lower the fuel level the less the cooling ability. Notice your tank starts getting warmer as you run the level lower.  Also, the lower the level of fuel the harder the pump has to work to maintain fuel pressure at the correct level. In cages, and most probably in bikes as well, running the fuel level low allows the fuel to slosh in the tank excessively and that stirs up any trash that may have found its' way into your tank, (trust me it is there), and it the gets picked up by your expensive fuel pump. In my truck I rarely run below 1/4 tank.
JMO, and what do I know anyway?
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech 1995-2005.

Hello all, I'm a past lurker on here that's slowly getting my 'feet wet'. I am grateful to all that share their knowledge here about my fav ride ever  :great:  I guess I should formally introduce myself somewhere in this forum but for now I'd like to add my perspective on this discussion on Thermodynamics and fuel pumps. It's off the topic thread started by BDF but as I understand the dynamics of heat (energy transfer) there is some incorrect but not uncommon statements regarding heat transfer here. There are also some correct ones but the explanations are off a bit. It's uncanny that everyone who chimed in is also partially correct.   :)

To summarize (paraphrase) what has been stated by Brian - it doesn't mater what is in the tank, gas or air (gas vapour) as the amount of heat generated by the pump is constant and so in a steady state situation with the energy dissipating into the environment via conduction through the tank walls  the pump is thermally unaffected by the type of medium around it. That is both true (tank temp) and false (pump temp) because the fact that we are comparing the thermal properties of a liquid and a 'gas' (air/gas vapour) as if they are the same but yet they vary significantly. A denser medium such as fuel is much more able to transfer the heat generated to the tank walls via conduction then a gas vapour can and thus does this at a lower temperature (more molecules vibrating less). This causes a much different temperature profile from the heat source to the tank wall for each medium. Where Brian is bang on is that the amount of energy dissipated to the tank walls is the same in both cases. But for the less dense gas to do the same 'work' it has to be at a higher temperature (less molecules vibrating more). That is where Mattchewn is correct, an 'empty' tank is hotter INSIDE. The exterior of the tank is not hotter however as the overall total heat dissipated is the same as Brian asserted. The hotter vapour will in fact transfer the same amount of heat to the tank walls (because there is less mass to do the work) and so the tank will NOT be hotter on the outside. These temperature variances can be very significant and even dangerous. (Thermal reactor rods losing heavy water.... oops...)

It's obvious that the same amount of energy is produced in either case, but due to the much higher mass in the fuel (heat sink) versus vapour, the fuel will be at a lower over all temperature yet holds (and transfers) the same amount of energy as the much less dense gas vapour. (Sorry if I'm repeating myself  ::) ) 


Finally I'd like to add that this is an academic discussion only since modern pumps are designed to operate in a range of temperatures and as far as I can tell, the C-14 fuel pumps are very reliable. So this is the point where Pistole is also correct, the C-14 pump can obviously  handle the 'heat' from the pump action and from other sources.  :great:

Cheers  :beerchug:

Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 28, 2013, 04:03:20 pm
The only thing worse than losing a portion of the cooling water would be to flood the reactor with cold water, slowing down more free neutrons ('moderating' them)  and ending up with a 'cold water' accident (runaway reaction). Oh wait, about the fuel pump....

Nice overview on the thermodynamics of a modern fuel pump / fuel tank. But in the end, unless a rider were actually riding the motorcycle (or any vehicle) with his / her hand inside the fuel tank, the only way to monitor the heat produced inside the tank would be to feel (and then guess the temperature) of the outside of the tank. Given those circumstances and realities, the tank temperature will not, and can not, change by varying the fuel level inside the tank given the constraints of what is producing the heat and how it is being transferred away from the fuel tank. Of course if you use a big enough field for the overall study, the entropy of the entire universe is still increasing and motorcycles are contributors....

Modern fuel pumps are of the turbine type, spin very fast and basically produce significant volume of flow with pressure being a by-product (as opposed to a positive displacement type of pump where pressure is the direct product and fluidic flow is the by- product). They are really quite simple and robust, able to pass a fair amount of debris and are almost free from shaft wear. Heat is really not a problem under any normal circumstances achievable with a modern vehicle. All of that said, they can suffer bearing wear if ran dry (out of fuel) repeatedly because it is the fuel itself that provides the function of lubrication. The really good news is that I have quite a few loose C-14 fuel pumps, pressure regulators, housings and assorted other parts and assemblies lying around. Oh wait, that is really bad news 'cause I burned up parts of them in developing this thing and had to keep buying more....

But all the way back to the main point, wanna' buy a low fuel warning eliminator / range display enabling circuit?  :D

Brian

Hello all, I'm a past lurker on here that's slowly getting my 'feet wet'. I am grateful to all that share their knowledge here about my fav ride ever  :great:  I guess I should formally introduce myself somewhere in this forum but for now I'd like to add my perspective on this discussion on Thermodynamics and fuel pumps. It's off the topic thread started by BDF but as I understand the dynamics of heat (energy transfer) there is some incorrect but not uncommon statements regarding heat transfer here. There are also some correct ones but the explanations are off a bit. It's uncanny that everyone who chimed in is also partially correct.   :)

To summarize (paraphrase) what has been stated by Brian - it doesn't mater what is in the tank, gas or air (gas vapour) as the amount of heat generated by the pump is constant and so in a steady state situation with the energy dissipating into the environment via conduction through the tank walls  the pump is thermally unaffected by the type of medium around it. That is both true (tank temp) and false (pump temp) because the fact that we are comparing the thermal properties of a liquid and a 'gas' (air/gas vapour) as if they are the same but yet they vary significantly. A denser medium such as fuel is much more able to transfer the heat generated to the tank walls via conduction then a gas vapour can and thus does this at a lower temperature (more molecules vibrating less). This causes a much different temperature profile from the heat source to the tank wall for each medium. Where Brian is bang on is that the amount of energy dissipated to the tank walls is the same in both cases. But for the less dense gas to do the same 'work' it has to be at a higher temperature (less molecules vibrating more). That is where Mattchewn is correct, an 'empty' tank is hotter INSIDE. The exterior of the tank is not hotter however as the overall total heat dissipated is the same as Brian asserted. The hotter vapour will in fact transfer the same amount of heat to the tank walls (because there is less mass to do the work) and so the tank will NOT be hotter on the outside. These temperature variances can be very significant and even dangerous. (Thermal reactor rods losing heavy water.... oops...)

It's obvious that the same amount of energy is produced in either case, but due to the much higher mass in the fuel (heat sink) versus vapour, the fuel will be at a lower over all temperature yet holds (and transfers) the same amount of energy as the much less dense gas vapour. (Sorry if I'm repeating myself  ::) ) 


Finally I'd like to add that this is an academic discussion only since modern pumps are designed to operate in a range of temperatures and as far as I can tell, the C-14 fuel pumps are very reliable. So this is the point where Pistole is also correct, the C-14 pump can obviously  handle the 'heat' from the pump action and from other sources.  :great:

Cheers  :beerchug:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on May 28, 2013, 05:11:40 pm
We might as well cover this topic completely. >:D  Does anybody know if the C-14 returns fuel back to the tank, or is it using a “Return-less” fuel system?  I think if it’s the former, it will increase heat as the fuel passes close to the engine on the fuel rails.  The heat generated in the remaining wet fuel could be more than just what is generated by the pump.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 28, 2013, 05:18:10 pm
It is a 'return- less' or one pipe system. The fuel comes out of the tank at the correct pressure (42 PSI if memory serves) and only moves one way- toward the bike. There is no return line. The pump itself makes 'too much' pressure and there is an integral fuel pressure regulator that literally throws the excess 'overboard'. I might have some photos around if anyone is interested but it is a modular style fuel pump with all the parts (pump, pressure regulator, electronics) brought together by the plastic housing that we are calling 'the fuel pump'. The actual fuel pump is really quite small, not much bigger than your thumb, and is common to millions of other vehicles. In fact, I believe there are only a very few different fuel pumps used in all vehicles and once the outer housing is removed, they all are interchangeable, again within those very few types used.

Brian

We might as well cover this topic completely. >:D  Does anybody know if the C-14 returns fuel back to the tank, or is it using a “Return-less” fuel system?  I think if it’s the former, it will increase heat as the fuel passes close to the engine on the fuel rails.  The heat generated in the remaining wet fuel could be more than just what is generated by the pump.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: LSGiant on May 29, 2013, 12:12:23 am
Just to clarify this took 10 seconds with the tank on the bike. I had taken the tank off before so I new where the wire and plug were located so I did not have to fish for them.

Glad the install went well for you.

I would just like to point out that there is no need nor any advantage whatsoever in removing the fuel tank to install this device. The wiring is readily accessible with the fuel tank in place and everything else in place on the motorcycle. I just don't want anyone to get the idea that removing the fuel tank is needed or even helps with the installation.

Brian

Farkle installed. It took less then ten seconds. I have already had my tank off so the plug in was readily accessible. Now i just have to run the tank empty to test.

Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mikethacker on May 29, 2013, 01:44:43 am
Ill buy one please.  mike
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Mad River Marc on May 29, 2013, 04:17:33 pm
Is it possible to modify this Farlke to add a separate LED on the dash that comes on when the low fuel warning would normally come on?

That way you still get a warning light and don't have the annoyance of the dashboard :)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on May 29, 2013, 08:42:31 pm
Is it possible to modify this Farlke to add a separate LED on the dash that comes on when the low fuel warning would normally come on?

That way you still get a warning light and don't have the annoyance of the dashboard :)

Outstanding idea !   :great:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on May 29, 2013, 08:59:52 pm
Yes but it will be somewhat costly. Also it would require some fairing removal and general tinkering with the bike to install. Not a bad thing but I have found most people want easily installed farkles so it really is a pretty big jump from the circuit I have now to one requiring stringing wiring and probably drilling a hole in the dash to install an LED, or at least to install an LED neatly. I did come up with a neat little widget work- around for the dash display but it again got complicated and pricey.

So there you have it in a nutshell: the various wants we all have coupled with the various costs we all do not want to pay. As the provider of these widgets, I have to weigh (read: guess) what others might want and then carefully research and estimate (again read: guess) what it might sell for. I have a fertile imagination and a bit of skill so trust me, I can come up with really neat farkles all day long (and do) but they are usually not cost effective. For example, I am currently kicking around a long distance comfort idea that I think will work really well and I would love to own BUT I do not believe it could be marketed to enough people to recover the costs of tooling to manufacturer it. Bummer too 'cause I would really like one and think one of YOU FOLKS should make them at a slight loss so the rest of us can enjoy it.  ;D ;D  The real downside to a lot of these types of ideas is that everyone is a little bit unhappy- the customer thinks the price is too high and the provider is either making a pathetic amount of money (well below minimum wage) or breaking even.

So back to your question: could an external indicator be added to my circuit to alert the rider? Yes but I doubt it would be feasible.

The only real way to deal with this problem is the same way we have generated our current high standard of living- through the magic of mass production and economy of scale. Trust me, a knife and fork would cost a tremendous amount then they do now if the town blacksmith where cranking them out with a hammer by the 'one- zies'. Pssst.... hey buddy, wanna' buy 100,000 C-14 dash displays?  ::)

"Fast, cheap, good : pick any two. Then pick one from the remaining two 'cause you ain't gettin' both of those at the same time."

Brian


Is it possible to modify this Farlke to add a separate LED on the dash that comes on when the low fuel warning would normally come on?

That way you still get a warning light and don't have the annoyance of the dashboard :)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: wayne_jenkins_CT on May 31, 2013, 10:07:10 am
Ahhh, BDF, when I saw you at the Spring Fling with the gas gauge Farckle in hand what I saw in my mind was you wearing a flat top straw hat, arm garters, white shirt, standing in the back of a covered wagon with an Indian side kick saying" this is the last Chance to get one and with out it your life will suck"
        Best of luck with a good idea ,I would purchase one but my wife of 55 years said" the next thing you buy  for THAT bike will be a FOR SALE SIGN!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on May 31, 2013, 11:16:12 am
I would purchase one but my wife of 55 years said" the next thing you buy  for THAT bike will be a FOR SALE SIGN!

That’s a Farkle killer statement, if ever there was one.  From now on, I suggest calling it a "repair" of the “Fuel Assessment Remaining Kawi Level Enhancement.”  It still spells Farkle by way of acronym, so you won’t be lying?  :D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: firehawk618 on June 02, 2013, 04:34:21 am
I love how the fuel pump heat issue will always come up when people start talking about running a tank low on fuel.  Doesn't matter if it's a motorcycle forum, dodge forum, honda forum, the pissing match starts all the same.  lol

Anyhoo, I will say it's great to eliminate the low fuel hijacking of your distance to empty function.

Any my $0.02 on the fuel pump heat issue, who cares, has anyone shown a definite pattern of fuel pumps dying due to all this heat from running a tank low?  Nope I haven't come across one and even if I had I'd still continue my riding / driving habits.

BDF, good job offering this mod to people at a great price.

Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on June 02, 2013, 10:26:19 am
Any my $0.02 on the fuel pump heat issue, who cares, has anyone shown a definite pattern of fuel pumps dying due to all this heat from running a tank low?  Nope I haven't come across one and even if I had I'd still continue my riding / driving habits.


Good point. The same could be said about burned valves, melted instruments, failure of a plugged tire, seized spark plugs, Dino oil (hold the dreaded oil thread comments).   No one knows for sure the risks, but if it can happen, or happens once,  it can apply to many I suppose.  There will always be folks that fear the worst, and do what they can to improve the odds.  I think I'm one of those because I'm ATGATT and checked my valves.  

In this case, with this mod, I think my odds of crashing while struggling to cancel the fuel alarm that hogs the display functionality, outweighs the risk of a fuel pump failure.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: lather on June 02, 2013, 12:53:04 pm
In this case, with this mod, I think my odds of crashing while struggling to cancel the fuel alarm that hogs the display functionality, outweighs the risk of a fuel pump failure.
I don't see any connection at all between this mod and risk of fuel pump failure. Installing this mod will have no impact on how far I go between fill ups, it will just make it easier to plan them. Just because I have better range information does not mean I have to change my re-fueling behavior.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on June 02, 2013, 01:16:46 pm
First off, thanks for the kind words.

As to the pump issue, of course I have not done any tests or temperature measurements so this is just my opinion. As long as there is any fuel in the system and the pump is still pumping fuel, the temperature will not become critical on any components. Nothing about the pump is sensitive to heat; it is a very simple turbine pump that only has two points of contact and those are the bearing points. As there is no side thrust on the bearings, even with a lousy (OK, terrible) lubricant like gasoline they should run forever.

No matter how little fuel there is in the tank, it is taken in at the bottom of the fuel pump and the excess is pumped out of the pump and will circulate around at least some part of the fuel tank. That alone will cool the pump. Whenever the pump is running there is excess fuel being pumped and that excess simply circulates around inside the fuel tank, always cooling it.

Running the pump dry is a different story though. Now there is no lubricant for the pump and the pump shaft is free to rest on one side or more probably, bang around inside the housing. That is why all modern vehicles turn off the fuel pump once the engine is no longer running- on a C-14 the pump will only run three seconds beyond the point the engine stops. We can all hear this when you turn on the ignition; the fuel pump runs as soon as the ignition is turned on but then stops and will not start again until the engine is started (or the ign. is turned off and back on again). This protects the fuel pump when the vehicle runs out of fuel- the fuel pump shuts down very quickly.

Brian

I love how the fuel pump heat issue will always come up when people start talking about running a tank low on fuel.  Doesn't matter if it's a motorcycle forum, dodge forum, honda forum, the pissing match starts all the same.  lol

Anyhoo, I will say it's great to eliminate the low fuel hijacking of your distance to empty function.

Any my $0.02 on the fuel pump heat issue, who cares, has anyone shown a definite pattern of fuel pumps dying due to all this heat from running a tank low?  Nope I haven't come across one and even if I had I'd still continue my riding / driving habits.

BDF, good job offering this mod to people at a great price.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Pistole on June 02, 2013, 01:29:17 pm
I think my odds of crashing while struggling to cancel the fuel alarm that hogs the display functionality

- almost crashed here too !!

.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on July 04, 2013, 11:31:07 pm
At long last, I have both inventory and now a web page where these things can be purchased. The web page is not complete yet (no information) but the purchase functions DO work. So for those who were asking for one of these, there is now a line to get your hands on one. I think.  ::)  There is also an inventory control function in place so that if the stock runs out they will not be available for purchase. If you can purchase one it means I have them in inventory and they will go out the next business day. Sorry about the delay but this here wed design thingy has a learning curve apparently....

www.InControlne.com (http://www.InControlne.com)

Brian
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on July 05, 2013, 05:13:48 pm
Sorry about this but my website is having some type of trouble with PayPal- so the purchase function is not working. Will post when they are up again and you really can buy them.... really.

 :-[

Brian
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: S Smith on July 05, 2013, 05:55:36 pm
Sorry about this but my website is having some type of trouble with PayPal- so the purchase function is not working. Will post when they are up again and you really can buy them.... really.

 :-[

Brian

Damn!  Just missed the impulse buying moment "by that much."
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on July 05, 2013, 08:51:48 pm
Right on the brink of a verge were ya'?  Hey, your bike was wearing one of those tricky circuits at Bedford- I used it as a demo on how easy it was to install. Much, much easier than setting up to sell them on-line in my experience.  :o

Brian



Damn!  Just missed the impulse buying moment "by that much."
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on July 06, 2013, 01:03:27 am
Dammit!! Was going to order one!!! Make sure to keep us posted when pay pal is ready, want one bad!!!  >:D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on July 06, 2013, 10:22:01 pm
I have done / tried everything I can think of and no go- there is something fundamentally wrong on the payment side of things. After working with the vendor for hours there was no resolution- they were nice enough and really did try but the people available just did not have the expertise to find and fix the problem. The next level is 'Merchant support' which will re- open on Monday <sigh>.

The low fuel warning is just annoying but the KiPass bypass has saved a few people's proverbial bacon. If anyone needs one of those sooner than the middle of next week, I can do something to get one out. E-mail me (not a PM but an e-mail) and we can do something. Otherwise I hope to have this all resolved by midnight Monday.... with a little luck, maybe even this coming Monday.  ???

Brian

Dammit!! Was going to order one!!! Make sure to keep us posted when pay pal is ready, want one bad!!!  >:D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on July 07, 2013, 12:41:39 pm
Hey Brian, what's the kipass bypass?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on July 07, 2013, 02:07:48 pm
OFFTOPIC:

When you press down on the stove knob key, that closes a switch that activates the bike, which in turn probes (easy boys!) for a valid fob w/in range. That switch has a nasty tendency to stick down or "ON" once in a while. KiPass being the clever system that it is works around that too by shutting down to protect the bike from killing the battery. It will not reactivate until that circuit is opened and closed again but the problem is that it is now stuck shut and you cannot open it. There are several.... ahem, 'adjustments' you can try to fix it with my very favorite being to smash tap a rock against the switch housing in an attempt to un-stick the stuck switch. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. What does work is if you open that circuit and then close it again via some other method- so I conjured up the KiPass activation switch Bypass. You pull the fuse, replace the fuse, the LCD lights up, you turn the key, start the bike and ride off. It is vastly better than that other method which involves a tow truck. There are several folks around here who have been stranded by said pesky switch (that's your cue Bob  :D  ).

I will put up more information on what it is / what it does on the web page after 1) I get the rest of the mechanics of the pages working and 2) I figure out how to make a scrolling window w/in a page.

Brian

Hey Brian, what's the kipass bypass?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on July 07, 2013, 11:26:46 pm
Ahhhh....I see. Gotta have both!!!  >:D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on July 08, 2013, 02:22:11 am
Well, maybe. Don't forget, we have a new and very exciting farkle coming out in the next few days. Not sure who's gonna' like or need that one....

Brian

Ahhhh....I see. Gotta have both!!!  >:D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on July 10, 2013, 10:22:32 pm
The site is now (10 July 2013) working and accepting payments for all your finer C-14 farkling needs.

www.incontrolne.com (http://www.incontrolne.com)

Brian

Ahhhh....I see. Gotta have both!!!  >:D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: lather on July 10, 2013, 11:30:00 pm
You've got $$$ :)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on July 11, 2013, 12:14:26 am
And your circuit is on the way.

A special thank- you to you Bob because you are the one who originally alerted me to the problem, along with recording your attempts to purchase. That really helped when diagnosing the problem.

Thanks again,
Brian

You've got $$$ :)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: lather on July 11, 2013, 10:48:44 am
Glad I could help. :beerchug:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Fuzz on August 25, 2013, 02:52:51 pm
Will someone please post a picture of this thing installed?  Noob here and I can't see where it gets attached to the bike.  I pulled the seat, but am unsure where it goes.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 25, 2013, 03:01:34 pm
Just behind / under the fuel tank.

They come with complete instructions along with photos. They are not hard to install but you may have to do a bit of looking for the cable with a flashlight. In rare cases it might help in using a piece of thin wire bent into a "J" shape and hook the cable but I do not recommend this as you really should not put much force on the cable. I have put them in on customer's bikes in parking lots after lunch and haven't yet had to cut into ice cream eating time afterward :-)

Look at the space just behind the tank and there is about a 2" wide gap there. Down in that gap there are two cables that attach to the fuel tank, you want the heavier / thicker of the two but the easiest way is to just retrieve both of them and use the one you need (the circuit will only fit in one cable, and only the right way on that one; it is impossible to install it incorrectly). The cables have enough slack so you can pull them out from behind the tank and get to the connectors; it was made this way so the cables can be disconnected easily before removing the fuel tank. But you do NOT need to remove ANY fasteners or move the fuel tank in any way to install this device.

Brian

Will someone please post a picture of this thing installed?  Noob here and I can't see where it gets attached to the bike.  I pulled the seat, but am unsure where it goes.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Fuzz on August 25, 2013, 04:20:21 pm
Brian,

Both items are now installed.

Thanks for the great products, that low fuel warning sign was bugging the hell out of me.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JPavlis_CA on August 25, 2013, 04:25:37 pm
Normally Brian's advice is right on, butt... in my case I had to unbolt the tank and lift the rear of it in order to fish the cables out - they were buried way down in there and I didn't want to risk damaging the cable with some sort of tool.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 25, 2013, 07:27:09 pm
I respectfully disagree Jim- you did not have to, you choose to lift the tank, whatever your reason(s). But it is simply not necessary to do this to get to the harness and lift the harness connectors above the level of the tank. I sell three products (one not yet available to the public) and this one is the only one that can be installed by anyone without any tools whatsoever. I do not dispute that Jim lifted his fuel tank to install his, I merely dispute that it had to be done.

I demonstrated how to install one of this on Steve Smith's bike at the Spring Fling in Bedford, PA, earlier this year in front of a handful of people; no tools used, the whole process (including removal of the circuit- it was not for sale at the time) took less than three minutes and I most certainly did not unbolt anything much less lift the fuel tank.

I will be at the Fall Rally in Lake George in a few weeks and would be happy to demonstrate the install on my own or anyone else's C-14, any year, in front of whoever may care to watch. And I will happily demonstrate the install as many times as desired, on as many bikes as desired, without anyone buying the circuit. Put another way, I will happily demonstrate the install without actually selling the product. I am also perfectly happy to have anyone take a video of the process as they may wish to do so.

Brian

Normally Brian's advice is right on, butt... in my case I had to unbolt the tank and lift the rear of it in order to fish the cables out - they were buried way down in there and I didn't want to risk damaging the cable with some sort of tool.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 25, 2013, 07:29:32 pm
Thanks for the kind words and glad it worked out for you.

I will have to re-visit the instructions if you could not find the harness after reading them. My goal has always been to make installation and use of whatever I sell as easy as possible.

Brian

Brian,

Both items are now installed.

Thanks for the great products, that low fuel warning sign was bugging the hell out of me.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JPavlis_CA on August 25, 2013, 07:39:28 pm
I respectfully disagree Jim- you did not have to, you choose to lift the tank, whatever your reason(s).

Brian - you weren't here, so how to hell do you know what influenced my decision? Read my lips... the cables were buried so far down that I could only see the thinner cable, and certainly couldn't grab it. That's the facts.

Glad you've been able to have easy installs on the few you've done. Will it be that easy on all? Who's to say?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: SteveC on August 25, 2013, 08:31:53 pm
Brian, first let me say I love this mod, thank you for creating it. But I admit that when I took off the seat, finding those cables was a challenge I didn't anticipate. They were not visible from the top at all. In retrospect, if I had used my 'mirror on a stick' I would have probably seen them. But they were much further down and toward the front of the engine than I expected. Of course it is possible that they got moved at some point (valve adjustment?), and that they were no longer in the stock location exactly.
But either way, I didn't need to remove anything to get them, once I realized they actually were there. Again, thanks.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 25, 2013, 09:06:09 pm
Thank you Jim for this valuable lesson. Some things are harder to learn than others and this one was tougher than it should have been for me but I have now caught on. Life is an endless series of learning cycles and this one that you have provided was less painful than most although not as effortless as those gently spoken between gentlemen.

Have a great day. (seriously)

Brian

Brian - you weren't here, so how to hell do you know what influenced my decision? Read my lips... the cables were buried so far down that I could only see the thinner cable, and certainly couldn't grab it. That's the facts.

Glad you've been able to have easy installs on the few you've done. Will it be that easy on all? Who's to say?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Udoggie on August 25, 2013, 09:16:56 pm
I wonder if the cables got pushed down by either a previous servicing, or by the factory?

I'm not at all mechanically inclined, but had no problems in finding the cable when I installed mine.

Jeff
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JPavlis_CA on August 25, 2013, 10:22:02 pm
Thank you Jim for this valuable lesson. Some things are harder to learn than others and this one was tougher than it should have been for me but I have now caught on. Life is an endless series of learning cycles and this one that you have provided was less painful than most although not as effortless as those gently spoken between gentlemen.

Sorry Brian, I got annoyed by your empahsis of the words "have" and "choose" (sp). It came across as a bit sarcastic. If you had left them in normal font it would have read better.

It's sort of like when I wanted to return the unit I tried. You were a bit put out that I was unhappy with it or that it didn't work as advertised. It took a bit of back and forth before you understood my reason for not wanting it. Same thing here. There was just no way I could pull those cables out and it was quicker and easier to lift the back of the tank a bit than to go fishing around for some sort of tool that I could use to grab the harness, and without knowing what they looked like I really didn't want to go in blind.

Have a good one.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 26, 2013, 03:11:29 am
You did not ask for a refund, you offered the unit for sale by saying, and I quote, "After trying it out for several hundred miles, I've decided that the fuel gauge is better suited for the type of riding I do so I'm selling the Fuel Warning Eliminator I picked up from Brian last month." My circuit does not and never had altered the fuel gauge's operation but your false statement that it did (does) confused others and misrepresented my product.

I offered you a full refund and also asked to fix the unit as it would have to be defective to interfere in any way with the fuel gauge function. In your second post you corrected yourself that indeed the fuel gauge did work fine but you wanted the low fuel warning active again. Fine and well, I maintained the offer of the refund which you choose not take but instead sold the unit to another person.

I would ask that anyone confused by Jim's posts, as I was, to read the entire thread to which I refer, it can be found here: http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,44126.0.html (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,44126.0.html)  They are as they were originally right now on 25 August 2013 and will continue to be so unless he edits them but that will leave a tell tale 'edited' line in each post edited.

I am a bit put out but only because I sold you the unit in the first place. I was warned not to do that and yet I proceed; hence the lesson you taught me and have apparently taught others. The transaction turned out as others predicted it would, poorly and misrepresented.

Where we go from here is up to you; if you feel the need to continue to state incorrect facts that involve my products, I will continue to dispute them. You do not currently own any products of mine, nor will you in the future so I would consider our business association concluded. We do not have nor will we have any personal association.

By the way, pointing out my spelling error contained in a sentence that you made two spelling errors in is indicative of your personality and abilities.

Now I really don't care what kind of an evening you have.

Brian


Sorry Brian, I got annoyed by your empahsis (sp BDF) of the words "have" and "choose" (sp). It came across as a bit sarcastic. If you had left them in normal font it would have read bette (sp, punctuation BDF)

It's sort of like when I wanted to return the unit I tried. You were a bit put out that I was unhappy with it or that it didn't work as advertised. It took a bit of back and forth before you understood my reason for not wanting it. Same thing here. There was just no way I could pull those cables out and it was quicker and easier to lift the back of the tank a bit than to go fishing around for some sort of tool that I could use to grab the harness, and without knowing what they looked like I really didn't want to go in blind.

Have a good one.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JPavlis_CA on August 26, 2013, 03:53:44 am
Believe whatever you want, Brian. You're now the second person selling something to the COG membership that I won't do business with.

Although my interest is piqued about who warned you not to sell to me. Obviously, they are also threatened by honest opinions. And having been around the club since '96, I have a pretty good idea who it is.

And as you know, I never said anything bad about your product, I only said it wasn't a good match for where and how I ride.

I'd normally say c'ya down the road, but I doubt that will happen.

 ::)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gigantor on August 31, 2013, 03:50:10 am
In the immortal words of a great philosopher "Can't we all just get along?"

JPavlis sorry the FARKLE didn't work for you, I on the other hand absolutely love it.  I don't need a red light to go off because the fuel gauge is near the speedo and at a glance I can see I'm running out of fuel.  I prefer the range indicator because I've had the low fuel warning light and in a couple of miles I'm panicking, looking for a gas station only to find I still had .8 gallons left.  I get almost 40 mpg so I worried for nothing.

As far as BDF goes, I've known him for some time and you would be hard pressed to find a finer gentleman.  He is intelligent and funny which is a combination hard to come by.

I know no one asked for my opinion but there you have it anyway.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Udoggie on August 31, 2013, 05:00:09 am
I on the other hand absolutely love it.
+1

As far as BDF goes, ... you would be hard pressed to find a finer gentleman.  He is intelligent and funny which is a combination hard to come by.
+2

  -Jeff
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: rob on August 31, 2013, 09:48:30 pm
thanks guys, i find this all quite hilarious!  also, i will be purchasing this product right after i'm done writing this sentence! i had need of this today in fact when i was worried about how much gas i had left....
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JPavlis_CA on September 01, 2013, 02:31:51 am
This is a public apology to Brian, because as he said, "Some things are harder to learn than others and this one was tougher than it should have been."  I was in a down mood, misread what he had written and took out my frustration on him.

Brian's farkle worked as advertised and is a quality piece. My choice of words did not properly convey why I did not find it usefull for the type of riding I do. A lot of riders will find it usefull, and will be quite satisfied with it.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Sailor Rich on September 01, 2013, 11:32:22 am
Wow that's just way too awesome for someone to come back and post as you have!. I'm sure after a nice days ride at a COG event You'd both have some great stories to share enjoying a cool beverage. ( As all of us do hence why we joined this club).
 :great:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: rob on September 01, 2013, 12:56:14 pm
i also applaud the effort, as public recognition that you're wrong is not an easy thing to do
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mattchewn on September 01, 2013, 01:38:31 pm
Jpavlis,

Way to go. I cannot believe how far things can go in such a short time on here. It is really great that there are people on here with the where-with-all to correct something that got out of hand. I applaud you sir!  Now if that other person in the other threads could see the light things might get a lot better. Wait and see I guess.
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: ConcoursKZ on September 01, 2013, 02:13:13 pm
thanks guys, i find this all quite hilarious!  also, i will be purchasing this product right after i'm done writing this sentence! i had need of this today in fact when i was worried about how much gas i had left....

I found the whole thread pretty funny myself. A quick PM or call by Jpavlis to BDF could have solved it all. Instead all this. Amazing.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 03, 2013, 10:34:26 pm
Wow, you were right- you really do deliver a great post for $20. Sorry I ever doubted you....   ;D

Thanks for the kind words. Now I am going to have to re-think that plan I had for you in NY.... it would seem cruel now.

 :rotflmao:

Brian



In the immortal words of a great philosopher "Can't we all just get along?"

<snipped embarrassingly, shamefully gratuitous comments>

I know no one asked for my opinion but there you have it anyway.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 03, 2013, 10:36:57 pm
I appreciate the sentiment but really, no apology is needed. I took no offense from your comments, thoughts or opinions; my only concern is the representation of my product.

Brian

This is a public apology to Brian, because as he said, "Some things are harder to learn than others and this one was tougher than it should have been."  I was in a down mood, misread what he had written and took out my frustration on him.

Brian's farkle worked as advertised and is a quality piece. My choice of words did not properly convey why I did not find it usefull for the type of riding I do. A lot of riders will find it usefull, and will be quite satisfied with it.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 03, 2013, 10:41:53 pm
And now your circuit is on the way.... a day late. I went to print out your shipping label, instructions and packing slip and found my printer would not respond- tried it on two computers but neither would respond to the printer. And of course I had a brand new, not even opened yet toner cartridge for it.  :(  Of course the new printer does not take the toner cartridge that I already had but then the good news: Staples took the old (but brand new, not opened) toner cartridge back- yea them! So you are the very first person to be getting paper fresh from the new printer; save it, it may become a collector's item someday (yeah, that's it....).

Brian

thanks guys, i find this all quite hilarious!  also, i will be purchasing this product right after i'm done writing this sentence! i had need of this today in fact when i was worried about how much gas i had left....
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Mad River Marc on September 04, 2013, 04:31:13 pm
I just ordered one,  living here in the northeast has spoiled me quite a bit in that you are rarely more then 5 miles from a fuel station and it's a given usually that stations here will have premium gas,  not so much in the north west.

I think having the range function would have saved my bacon when I ran out of gas in South Dakota with 160 miles on the tank total  :-\  having the range function would have given me a better indication.  Lucky for me I was rolling into a gas station when the motor finally quit.

Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Slingblade on September 04, 2013, 05:35:28 pm
I finally took the plunge and ordered one - I just cant stand the way the dash goes completely ape $hit when I know I have another 35 - 45 miles to go before it goes dry   >:(:
                                        LOW FUEL

Go Away !!!!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mattchewn on September 04, 2013, 10:34:08 pm
Hey Brian,
How about a defeat mechanism for the tpms taking over the dash! That I would buy! I may even but your other item yet.
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 05, 2013, 12:31:34 am
A bit OFFTOPIC:

I have had four rides through South Dakota, end- to- end, non- stop. One of those rides I just don't remember but the other three are burned into my memory: the first time through, I turned from I-29N to I-90W and [when suddenly] ran into almost unbelievable winds nearly head- on but quartering from the right just enough to force me to lean into it. All the way through S.D. My mileage dropped from well over 40 to just under 30 MPG in about four seconds. That was back before the low fuel warning eliminator and it was a miserable ride. The other two were just as memorable: one west into the wind again and one east without the wind but in 102F temps. all day long. South Dakota is really a pretty state but seeing as they only ever did have three trees, and somebody cut one of them down, the wind is atrocious across the prairie. The only real way to address that IMO is with a fuel cell.

Back ONTOPIC: you stuff shipped and Kirby says it is of the highest quality. Here he is testing a batch of L.F.W.E. circuits.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/Kirbytestingfuelwarningeliminators.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/BDF08012008/media/Kirbytestingfuelwarningeliminators.jpg.html)

Brian

I just ordered one,  living here in the northeast has spoiled me quite a bit in that you are rarely more then 5 miles from a fuel station and it's a given usually that stations here will have premium gas,  not so much in the north west.

I think having the range function would have saved my bacon when I ran out of gas in South Dakota with 160 miles on the tank total  :-\  having the range function would have given me a better indication.  Lucky for me I was rolling into a gas station when the motor finally quit.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 05, 2013, 12:36:12 am
Unfortunately I cannot get in the way of that one- it is tied directly into the KiPass ECU and not available for interruption. Unless of course one was to go after the radio signal directly but that is a bad idea on several levels and illegal to boot.

Some parts of the bike can be 'tinkered' with while other parts are either not possible or not practical. The only effective way to deal with the low tire pressure sensor warnings would be to move the batteries to the outside of the wheels; I have worked out a method to do that but unfortunately it would require re- working of the wheels and so is not something that can be distributed. Of course the other way to deal with this is to simply solder in a new battery every time a tire is changed or every two years, whichever comes last, but I understand not everyone can or wants to deal with those sensors on that level.

Brian

Hey Brian,
How about a defeat mechanism for the tpms taking over the dash! That I would buy! I may even but your other item yet.
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Mad River Marc on September 06, 2013, 07:01:14 pm
A bit OFFTOPIC:

I have had four rides through South Dakota, end- to- end, non- stop. One of those rides I just don't remember but the other three are burned into my memory: the first time through, I turned from I-29N to I-90W and [when suddenly] ran into almost unbelievable winds nearly head- on but quartering from the right just enough to force me to lean into it. All the way through S.D. My mileage dropped from well over 40 to just under 30 MPG in about four seconds. That was back before the low fuel warning eliminator and it was a miserable ride. The other two were just as memorable: one west into the wind again and one east without the wind but in 102F temps. all day long. South Dakota is really a pretty state but seeing as they only ever did have three trees, and somebody cut one of them down, the wind is atrocious across the prairie. The only real way to address that IMO is with a fuel cell.



Actually I was in that exact same place,  When I got off of 29 onto 90, the wind was quite "interesting" (doing 75 down the highway at a 30 degree lean angle was quite exhilarating LOL)


Ps, in your pic, what's with the valve thingy on the left side near the panel (with the red handle)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 06, 2013, 07:48:06 pm
Yeah, I was going just a tad (really!) faster and the wind gusted from the normal 300 or so MPH to 500 MPH and lifted the glove box cover off the bike. No kidding- I caught it about 2" up off the tank. The rest of the ride I leaned down on the glove box with my left arm, tucked in behind the windshield and counter-steered the bike into the wind. At the next stop I used two sheets of duct tape to hold the cover down.... good times. And that was after something like 32 hours of continuous riding too.

The valve thingy is.... well, a valve (sorry, couldn't resist). It is a ball valve for the aux. fuel tank connection. Right after the valve is a quick- couple connector which also shuts off (it has an automatic valve in it) but I didn't want to count on that to seal the tank and that hose is high enough that it will ship fuel when the tank is more than about 1/2 full. There is another quick- coupler on the other side of the bike and that one is for the vent of the aux. tank- the aux. tank vents through the main tank; I don't like the idea of a second vent in the system, especially one open to the atmosphere. The OEM vent in the tank cap is actually quite good and tough to duplicate.

Brian

Actually I was in that exact same place,  When I got off of 29 onto 90, the wind was quite "interesting" (doing 75 down the highway at a 30 degree lean angle was quite exhilarating LOL)


Ps, in your pic, what's with the valve thingy on the left side near the panel (with the red handle)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on September 09, 2013, 12:22:51 pm
I'm going to try one of those low fuel warning eliminator gizmos. I really dislike it when the bike disables my display so it can flash low fuel at me. I know she thinks I am an idiot, but really?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 09, 2013, 04:58:16 pm
It'll go out tomorrow John. Guaranteed to make you at least 8% more intelligent (no matter what your bike thinks) and perhaps, just perhaps, a little more handsome too. These circuits are awesome I tells' ya'.    ;) ;D

Brian

I'm going to try one of those low fuel warning eliminator gizmos. I really dislike it when the bike disables my display so it can flash low fuel at me. I know she thinks I am an idiot, but really?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Slingblade on September 09, 2013, 06:43:18 pm
Installed yesterday - took 10 minutes, no tools.  This is a 1/2 Beer job

Now I can't wait to get "low on fuel" and actually know what the heck is going on !  ;)

Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on September 09, 2013, 08:53:27 pm
Yep, you can turn off the warning that way (Press and hold the top button, press and release the bottom button, release the top button for those who do not know already) but you cannot get the range function to work no matter what you do. Also a lot of people have complained about remembering the button sequence or have trouble operating the buttons when wearing heavy winter gloves. My own personal reason for eliminating the warning is that I wanted to see the range remaining when low on fuel in the northwest of the US, usually late at night. The range function is calculated in realtime so if you have, say, 40 miles of range remaining at, say, 82 MPH, you may have 50 or 55 miles left at 60 MPH. It can make a big difference if the next sizable city is 38 miles away when the warning goes off. Now I just flip my display to the range function when the fuel gauge reads empty. But certainly this is not something that everyone will find useful or of any value.

Brian

The Range display was the selling point for me. My display stays in the Range display 99.9% of the time. I live by it. And I have also gotten mine down to just 10 miles left per the Range display as I rolled into a gas station. So it isn't all that far off, though I'd never take it down to saying 2 miles unless I had no choice.

Normally I fill up every 150-175 miles anyway, so no problem.... but I also get the stupid LOW FUEL flashing routine quite often when not out on the road.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 09, 2013, 09:40:35 pm
No range display in any vehicle will be accurate to 2 miles so going to that extreme is begging to get stuck.

The range display on a C-14 is a sorta' measured, and then calculated number and is a reasonable estimate but it is not an exact number. The accuracy will also vary from bike- to- bike because of manufacturing tolerances; the fuel gauge is a bent arm sliding up and down on a variable resistor and they are not calibrated. Someone is going to get the one bent a little lower than the majority and that person is going to run out of fuel before other bikes of the identical type reading the identical range remaining. The range display must be used with some care and judgement. I would tread lightly and carry additional fuel if testing the fuel range reading below something like 10 or 15 miles.

Brian

Brian

The Range display was the selling point for me. My display stays in the Range display 99.9% of the time. I live by it. And I have also gotten mine down to just 10 miles left per the Range display as I rolled into a gas station. So it isn't all that far off, though I'd never take it down to saying 2 miles unless I had no choice.

Normally I fill up every 150-175 miles anyway, so no problem.... but I also get the stupid LOW FUEL flashing routine quite often when not out on the road.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Dennis on September 10, 2013, 01:22:42 am
So... What the new farkle that you are coming out with?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on September 10, 2013, 09:01:42 am
So... What the new farkle that you are coming out with?

I want to know too, but the website just says "coming soon". What is coming soon?  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gremlin on September 10, 2013, 03:54:40 pm
PM sent. 
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on September 10, 2013, 06:13:40 pm
I am afraid the hype is ahead of the reality- the new trinket is not that good. The verbiage about it is just because my day job is being a carnival shill and sometimes I can't stop myself.

The new web pages and description will be along directly.

Brian

So... What the new farkle that you are coming out with?

I want to know too, but the website just says "coming soon". What is coming soon?  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: GWOCNI on October 09, 2013, 01:47:04 pm
Hi Brian,
I emailed you through the website since I am overseas, looking forward to hearing from you :)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 09, 2013, 02:02:38 pm
Got your e-mail and responded yesterday.

Unfortunately, shipping from the US to anywhere else is very expensive. I ship for my actual cost and it is still quite high. Shipping for small packages from the UK to the US though is very reasonable, on the order of $3 or $4 and usually takes about a week. Not sure what the reason for our high prices is but I cannot find any less expensive method.

Brian

Hi Brian,
I emailed you through the website since I am overseas, looking forward to hearing from you :)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 01:08:14 pm
I vote for putting gas in your bike when the warning comes on... Or maybe even before. If you are 40 miles from a gas station when the warning comes on, it's not like it's going to bring the station any closer by knowing your distance to empty. This reminds me of the good old petcock/reserve days... Would you run around on reserve to avoid having to switch to reserve at some point?

Other than that, sounds like a good product. Good work!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on October 13, 2013, 01:18:07 pm
Gotta say, this is probably my favorite Farkle!! The low fuel warning comes on way to early and invokes panic that your about to run out of gas. We have a house in Pennsylvania and prior to installing the low fuel warning eliminator had to make a fuel stop 3/4 of the way there from Long Island due to panic from the low fuel flashing in desperation!! Now I get all the way there and even did some running around in town before getting to 15 miles till empty. Pretty safe to say the warning comes on too early and also hijacks the display!! You just got to pay attention and use common sense to realize when you NEED to fuel up!!!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 01:25:36 pm
You just got to pay attention and use common sense to realize when you NEED to fuel up!!!

You were in full support of the farkle until you said that.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on October 13, 2013, 01:30:51 pm
You just got to pay attention and use common sense to realize when you NEED to fuel up!!!

You were in full support of the farkle until you said that.

Only if you ride without common sense.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 01:41:30 pm
You just got to pay attention and use common sense to realize when you NEED to fuel up!!!

You were in full support of the farkle until you said that.

Only if you ride without common sense.

Or basic math skills.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on October 13, 2013, 01:56:58 pm
Can't use basic math skills once the "low fuel" hijacks your display and no longer shows your "distance to empty"!!!  :))
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 02:27:59 pm
Can't use basic math skills once the "low fuel" hijacks your display and no longer shows your "distance to empty"!!!  :))

You mean the DTE that the majority agree isn't accurate? I was referring to the "OMG my Low Fuel Warning is on!" math which forces the rider to get gas and pump 4.5 gallons (93 octane lol) into a 5.8 gallon tank (adding another OMG moment in the process realizing there was 1.3 gallons to go!) thereby preventing the rider from riding past several gas stations en route to the lowest possible DTE number. Looking forward to someone posting a 0 mile DTE.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on October 13, 2013, 02:33:38 pm
Can't use basic math skills once the "low fuel" hijacks your display and no longer shows your "distance to empty"!!!  :))

You mean the DTE that the majority agree isn't accurate? I was referring to the "OMG my Low Fuel Warning is on!" math which forces the rider to get gas and pump 4.5 gallons (93 octane lol) into a 5.8 gallon tank (adding another OMG moment in the process realizing there was 1.3 gallons to go!) thereby preventing the rider from riding past several gas stations en route to the lowest possible DTE number. Looking forward to someone posting a 0 mile DTE.

Along with how far they needed to push their bike to get gas!!! It would be foolish to let it get down to single digits. The only thing I can say for sure is, I happen to love this farkle!! Don't knock it until you've tried it as they say.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 02:37:20 pm
Again, though I may not buy this item, it is people who are not afraid to go out and try to make these over-engineered fun cycles more enjoyable (or more user friendly) that get my respect. Hell, I spent $65 on a speedo calibrator for my Yamaha R1 that I unfortunately found out that when programmed, confuses the ECU/Power Commander/fuel injection mapping causing a loss of power. It's still installed... In bypass mode. :(
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on October 13, 2013, 02:42:23 pm
Ahhhhhh....the r1, awesome machine!!!!  :great:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 02:44:45 pm
Quote
Along with how far they needed to push their bike to get gas!!!

When the R1 went to fuel injection in 2002 (my first R1), they added a low fuel warning light with an odometer reading telling how far since the light came on. On my second R1 (2004) I found out the hard way that knowing the distance traveled since the light came on is only useful in story telling about the time you ran out of gas. Though I may travel a few extra miles to get to a good gas station, I now prefer to get gas SOONER and not LATER.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Roger M. on October 13, 2013, 02:50:06 pm
From my experience so far, the DTE is pretty accurate. I also would gas up sooner then later unless gas stations are readily available. As stated earlier, this Farkle enables me to take the bike a bit further on road trips. I for one love it!!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 03:32:09 pm
As stated earlier, this Farkle enables me to take the bike a bit further on road trips. I for one love it!!  :beerchug:

You would need a bigger tank or better mpg to do that, but I get what you are saying... It's just a matter of what do you trust!   :))
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 03:33:46 pm
Guaranteed to make you at least 8% more intelligent (no matter what your bike thinks) and perhaps, just perhaps, a little more handsome too. These circuits are awesome I tells' ya'.    ;) ;D

Brian



Well, why didn't you say this from the get go?!? Time to ask for more allowance...
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 13, 2013, 09:27:32 pm
Glad to hear you like it Roger.

That is basically the way I manage fuel usage too- no warning but I am aware of the fuel state and can casually go well into that last gallon with no real risk of running out of fuel. I also just do not care for being in / on a vehicle with any warnings displayed even when I know what it is and that it is not a problem.

Brian



Gotta say, this is probably my favorite Farkle!! The low fuel warning comes on way to early and invokes panic that your about to run out of gas. We have a house in Pennsylvania and prior to installing the low fuel warning eliminator had to make a fuel stop 3/4 of the way there from Long Island due to panic from the low fuel flashing in desperation!! Now I get all the way there and even did some running around in town before getting to 15 miles till empty. Pretty safe to say the warning comes on too early and also hijacks the display!! You just got to pay attention and use common sense to realize when you NEED to fuel up!!!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 13, 2013, 09:44:26 pm
I manufacturer and sell this thing so take what I say with that in mind....

This circuit exists because I preferred to manage my fuel usage / purchases / stopping for fuel a bit more freely than having to deal with a built- in low fuel warning. Actually, I found the low fuel warning more of a threat but mostly, it wiped out the range function at the only time I actually found it useful. And while the dash warning can be shut off, the warning light comes on when that is done so effectively there is a warning displayed no matter what the rider does while there is still a very useful amount of fuel in the tank (1.1 gallons by spec. but actually a bit more). The range estimate is exactly that but it is certainly accurate enough to be useful for the last 50 miles of range IMO. The idea is not to try to ride until the range is as low as possible, the objective is to be able to manage your fuel content without unnecessary and, at least in my opinion, the machine trying to force me to refuel at an absolutely arbitrary point of 1.1 gallons remaining. I would prefer the machine to simply present me with the information that is needed (estimated range remaining, fuel level, miles traveled) and allow me to manage my own fuel stops.

I use trip meter 'A' to watch miles traveled per tank but that is not always particularly useful as the fuel economy changes a great deal with temperature, vehicle speed and headwinds. The range function is actually more accurate over the varying conditions the bike is used under because it compensates for the actual amount of fuel used rather than just counting the miles traveled blindly since its last reset.

At any rate, this trinket is probably not for everyone, and certainly I would expect not everyone dislikes the way the bike acts when it is stock. I only provide them to offer a choice in how the bike acts / responds regarding fuel management; if the stock behavior works for some owners then I think that is great.

Brian


You mean the DTE that the majority agree isn't accurate? I was referring to the "OMG my Low Fuel Warning is on!" math which forces the rider to get gas and pump 4.5 gallons (93 octane lol) into a 5.8 gallon tank (adding another OMG moment in the process realizing there was 1.3 gallons to go!) thereby preventing the rider from riding past several gas stations en route to the lowest possible DTE number. Looking forward to someone posting a 0 mile DTE.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on October 13, 2013, 09:57:22 pm
I totally get it. In my 370Z I get a low fuel warning around 50-60 miles DTE. Right around 25 miles DTE, I get *** totally awesome... NOT.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 6thwisconsin on October 15, 2013, 12:20:13 am
Order placed...
Looking forward to less dash clutter and no more annoying low fuel flashing.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 15, 2013, 11:19:45 am
It is on the way....

Brian

Order placed...
Looking forward to less dash clutter and no more annoying low fuel flashing.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 6thwisconsin on October 21, 2013, 10:14:02 pm
Received just in time for a 700 mile run this past weekend to the national Motorcycle Museum in Anamosa, IA. I will say that it took only a few minutes to install and worked perfectly. It was very nice seeing the range count down to 40 miles or so before I started to hunt for gas. The flashing dash always freaked me out thinking I was just about to run out of gas and I really hated it! This product was really nice piece of mind for me. Thanks for the fast shipping and the great solve for an annoyance!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on October 22, 2013, 11:02:39 am
This is still on my Farkle list.  I usually run with the TPS display, but I tried running with range display and watched the range display jump anywhere between 236 miles and 156 miles on a secondary road.  This is unlike the car range display which seems to do a better job of averaging the range and progressively counts down.

So if I was going to rely on the range display for that last gallon of gas, and it varies possibly as much as 60%, which number should be used?  Should I be using the high, the low, or start doing math to calculate an average?   Does the range accuracy improve with less gas in the tank?  I know running the slab will not vary as much, but for normal (to-me) off-slab riding, what number are you going by to determine the real range?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 22, 2013, 12:17:06 pm
The range indicator will settle down as there is less fuel. The calculation is based on (original fuel on board - fuel used) / instantaneous mileage. So as the quantity on board goes down, the bouncing around is less. Those wild range changes that show on a full tank will not happen when down to or below, say, 50 miles remaining.

I use the higher number shown when the bike is settled down and not accelerating. When starting off from a strop, especially if accelerating hard, the range indicated will drop. I just ignore that and check it again when I am riding at a more steady speed.

Also, the difference between 31 miles remaining and 36 miles remaining does not mean much. I just take it as an overview and call it about 30. In actual use, say the range reads 38 miles; call it 40 and if there is a station 20 miles away, or if home is 21 miles away then I can absolutely ignore the fuel quantity and forget about stopping for fuel if I do not want to. I do not use the range function to an accuracy of a small single digit number, just a reasonable representation of my remaining range. Contrast this to "Low Fuel" for 50 miles with no reference other than the total miles ridden on that tankful.

Again, this is just a choice to use the data presented in a different way. It does not do anything magical. Everyone I have spoken with that has one of these seems to like it and uses it to plan the next fuel stop directly from the range display.

Brian

This is still on my Farkle list.  I usually run with the TPS display, but I tried running with range display and watched the range display jump anywhere between 236 miles and 156 miles on a secondary road.  This is unlike the car range display which seems to do a better job of averaging the range and progressively counts down.

So if I was going to rely on the range display for that last gallon of gas, and it varies possibly as much as 60%, which number should be used?  Should I be using the high, the low, or start doing math to calculate an average?   Does the range accuracy improve with less gas in the tank?  I know running the slab will not vary as much, but for normal (to-me) off-slab riding, what number are you going by to determine the real range?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 22, 2013, 12:22:11 pm
Thank you for the kind words and glad to hear you like the trinket. I like happy customers; it makes answering the door or phone easier  ;D 

I almost always ship the next day after a product is ordered. The only fly in that ointment is international shipping which forces me to use particular boxes, tape, and necessitates a trip to the post office. It is also surprisingly expensive. But domestic shipping is relatively painless and pretty slick- I must be the only person left who does not hate USPS. In fact, I am a fan- they do a great job for what I think is a very reasonable fee.

Thanks again,
Brian

Received just in time for a 700 mile run this past weekend to the national Motorcycle Museum in Anamosa, IA. I will say that it took only a few minutes to install and worked perfectly. It was very nice seeing the range count down to 40 miles or so before I started to hunt for gas. The flashing dash always freaked me out thinking I was just about to run out of gas and I really hated it! This product was really nice piece of mind for me. Thanks for the fast shipping and the great solve for an annoyance!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on October 22, 2013, 12:29:41 pm
Thank you for the kind words and glad to hear you like the trinket. I like happy customers; it makes answering the door or phone easier  ;D 

I almost always ship the next day after a product is ordered. The only fly in that ointment is international shipping which forces me to use particular boxes, tape, and necessitates a trip to the post office. It is also surprisingly expensive. But domestic shipping is relatively painless and pretty slick- I must be the only person left who does not hate USPS. In fact, I am a fan- they do a great job for what I think is a very reasonable fee.

Thanks again,
Brian


I agree, it is a nifty little gadget that is easy to install and does exactly what it says it will.  :great:

Brian, there must be at least two of us who like USPS. I shipped all the store stuff using USPS online, printing labels on my pc's printer, and flat rate rocks for a lot of stuff because you can 100% predict the cost of shipping in the USA for a given product.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: CW on October 22, 2013, 02:32:38 pm
Order placed...I had been carrying a credit on PayPal, so this product was really too good to pass up!

I'm assuming BDF will get my shipping address and all from PayPal, since there was nothing to fill in on the order blank at BDF's site...or did I goof up?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 22, 2013, 04:12:03 pm
OFFTOPIC: glad to hear it is not just me. I have always been a fan of USPS (or any postal service really); imagine a gigantic 'machine' that runs so well they can get a letter 3,000, maybe 4,000 miles away to any destination in the US, that has an address, in a few days for less than half- a- buck? Sure they lose stuff and mangle stuff but that is not the norm.- the norm is the mail shows up in our mailboxes every day from all over the place reliably. Sure they are a few billion dollars in the hole but so what- we're gonna' patch that up and forge ahead because we just do not have any choice; we need a functioning mail system.

So here is to all those who get up everyday and schlep the mail around in carry bags, funky little trucks, big trucks, planes and just about every other conveyance known to man: thanks!

Brian

I agree, it is a nifty little gadget that is easy to install and does exactly what it says it will.  :great:

Brian, there must be at least two of us who like USPS. I shipped all the store stuff using USPS online, printing labels on my pc's printer, and flat rate rocks for a lot of stuff because you can 100% predict the cost of shipping in the USA for a given product.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 22, 2013, 04:19:09 pm
Got the order and yes, got a valid address. It will go out tomorrow (Wed. 23 Oct.) and you should get it by Sat. or next Mon.

The system is set up so that if it actually processes the entire order (read: takes your money) it has to have an address and name in place, and I actually have to have stock on hand. If you have an address on file already, it will use that one. If not, it will present a 'fill- in form' with required fields for your name and address. In the past I have had orders from people without having their address or even their real name which is an odd position to be in; I have to e-mail folks without knowing their name and literally ask who they are and where they are. The system now in place will not allow that; I do not keep records of people's personal data, and I never even get any financial data (credit card info., Paypal info., in fact I do not even know how the payment was made) but I do need a minimum of name and address to send the product out.

Brian

Order placed...I had been carrying a credit on PayPal, so this product was really too good to pass up!

I'm assuming BDF will get my shipping address and all from PayPal, since there was nothing to fill in on the order blank at BDF's site...or did I goof up?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 6thwisconsin on October 24, 2013, 11:05:26 pm
I also intentionally took note of what the range stated when I stopped for gas vs. how much fuel I pumped and was closer than I expected. The first stop I pumped 4.8 gallons so I had a gallon left. The range indicator was reading 35ish and since I averaged 38 mpg for the entire trip, I thought that was remarkably close. That gave me even more peace of mind and all the fuel stops after that were remarkably similar. I'm sold...

Yes you have to use some common sense with the readings. Don't use the readings after hard acceleration or while running the twisties. (I did a lot of that on the Iowa run, Mississippi river road is great! So is Hwy 60 eastbound through Wisconsin). Yes, you use more gas doing this but if you wait until you settle down, you can get a true average. Its actually pretty intuitive. I RARELY (never) endorse products but this was 50 bucks well spent. It would only be better if it was $39.95... (sorry, I'm cheap)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 25, 2013, 12:39:35 pm
Thanks for the kind words and the thoughts on the product. I also believe it is a better way to manage fuel than a 'nastygram' being sent all the way to our brain stems.

As far as the price, I could really knock that down but I would have to make a lot of units- 5,000 plus and I cannot see my way to doing that. I doubt I would sell them and I can only use one myself :-)  But as it is, these are being made in small lots using ridiculously expensive components and excessive amounts of labor. Reducing the price isn't an option. Raising the price is but I am trying to hold where it is.

Brian

I also intentionally took note of what the range stated when I stopped for gas vs. how much fuel I pumped and was closer than I expected. The first stop I pumped 4.8 gallons so I had a gallon left. The range indicator was reading 35ish and since I averaged 38 mpg for the entire trip, I thought that was remarkably close. That gave me even more peace of mind and all the fuel stops after that were remarkably similar. I'm sold...

Yes you have to use some common sense with the readings. Don't use the readings after hard acceleration or while running the twisties. (I did a lot of that on the Iowa run, Mississippi river road is great! So is Hwy 60 eastbound through Wisconsin). Yes, you use more gas doing this but if you wait until you settle down, you can get a true average. Its actually pretty intuitive. I RARELY (never) endorse products but this was 50 bucks well spent. It would only be better if it was $39.95... (sorry, I'm cheap)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Fork on October 26, 2013, 09:30:18 am


Well, BDF, I bought one of your devices and I'll chime in with a comment that it is extremely easy to install, takes about 5 minutes, and is a bargain at your price. The intellectual property contained in your product also has value above the naked price of manufacturing the item. Well made, easy to install, reasonably priced and a really valuable tool to have added to the bike. Just makes the Concours experience that much more pleasurable. Maybe my wife's right, if forced to chose between the C14 and her, she can have the house and I'll take the garage and the Kawasaki. 

Fork
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 26, 2013, 02:15:43 pm
Thank you for the kind words, and even more so for the thought that you find the circuit to enhance your riding.

As far as the wife thing- I am fortunate in that mine likes to ride too- maybe more than I do at times. And she is pretty tough and adaptable about it too- we ride all winter, well below freezing for a few months. So motorcycles are not an area we tangle about fortunately.

Brian


Well, BDF, I bought one of your devices and I'll chime in with a comment that it is extremely easy to install, takes about 5 minutes, and is a bargain at your price. The intellectual property contained in your product also has value above the naked price of manufacturing the item. Well made, easy to install, reasonably priced and a really valuable tool to have added to the bike. Just makes the Concours experience that much more pleasurable. Maybe my wife's right, if forced to chose between the C14 and her, she can have the house and I'll take the garage and the Kawasaki. 

Fork
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: CW on October 26, 2013, 05:11:20 pm
Got the order and yes, got a valid address. It will go out tomorrow (Wed. 23 Oct.) and you should get it by Sat. or Mon.

Brian


Received it yesterday (Friday), a mere two days after you mailed it. I installed it today. Took 5 minutes. Instructions and pics were perfect! Now I've got to go ride and burn off some gas so I can see my new farkle at work!

Thanks for a great product, at a great price, with great service!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 6thwisconsin on October 28, 2013, 12:21:47 am
No worries... I love the product and had no problems paying the price. I can't help that I'm am a cheap azz...

As far as the price, I could really knock that down but I would have to make a lot of units- 5,000 plus and I cannot see my way to doing that. I doubt I would sell them and I can only use one myself :-)  But as it is, these are being made in small lots using ridiculously expensive components and excessive amounts of labor. Reducing the price isn't an option. Raising the price is but I am trying to hold where it is.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: GWOCNI on October 30, 2013, 12:39:43 am
Mine's here, mine's here, mine's here..............  :beerchug:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 30, 2013, 04:33:26 pm
Great- thanks for letting me know. You are my very first customer in Northern Ireland and while I expected it to arrive OK it did take a little longer than I expected. I buy the occasional small item from the UK (England specifically, and not motorcycle related) and it usually takes one week exactly to arrive here.

Brian

Mine's here, mine's here, mine's here..............  :beerchug:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mattchewn on October 30, 2013, 07:25:58 pm
Brian,
I sent a small manilla envelope with COG stuff in it to Germany for another member and it took almost 4 weeks to get there.
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: CW on October 30, 2013, 08:41:20 pm
For anyone interested, I had my first chance today to test out my new farkle from BDF. Range dropped below 50. And instead of that pesky flashing warning, I continued to get a readout of my remaining distance to empty. I did a quick compuatation before filling the tank, based on indicated range and average mpg, which resulted in a theoretical volume of 4.8 gallons required to fill. Sure enough, the actual fill volume turned out to be 4.84 gallons.

Pretty darned close, BDF!!!

In summary, I now feel I can continue to ride in comfort, while keeping an eye on the remaining range. As long as the read out is in double digits, I feel pretty safe. Way better than a flashing "Low Fuel" warning. More informative, too.

Thanks, Brian!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on October 31, 2013, 04:40:32 pm
Thanks for the kind words and very glad to hear you like it.

Brian

For anyone interested, I had my first chance today to test out my new farkle from BDF. Range dropped below 50. And instead of that pesky flashing warning, I continued to get a readout of my remaining distance to empty. I did a quick compuatation before filling the tank, based on indicated range and average mpg, which resulted in a theoretical volume of 4.8 gallons required to fill. Sure enough, the actual fill volume turned out to be 4.84 gallons.

Pretty darned close, BDF!!!

In summary, I now feel I can continue to ride in comfort, while keeping an eye on the remaining range. As long as the read out is in double digits, I feel pretty safe. Way better than a flashing "Low Fuel" warning. More informative, too.

Thanks, Brian!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: GWOCNI on November 03, 2013, 07:33:09 pm
Fitted in 30 seconds flat, now to get the fuel run down :)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: guzziman3 on January 08, 2014, 06:13:20 pm
Got mine today Brian, cheers :great:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on January 08, 2014, 07:16:57 pm
Great- thanks for letting me know because I could not track it once it hit NY and left the US :-(

Please feel free to contact me (here, e-mail or whatever works for you) if you have any questions.

Brian

Got mine today Brian, cheers :great:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on January 08, 2014, 08:09:57 pm
This has been on my to-do-Farkle list, and I ordered one on Monday.  Feedback and tracking on the order is excellent. 

For me this is a safety issue, because it’s downright dangerous trying to clear the fuel warning with gloves while riding. Pulling over is a PIA.   I try to tell myself to just let it go Ape$h*t until I find gas, but I always seem to end up trying to clear it anyway and regret it every time I try.  This Farkle makes the whole problem go away.  Awesome.  :great:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on January 08, 2014, 08:30:03 pm
Thanks for the kind words.

Yours is in your town but not out for delivery in the little white vehicle (LLV) yet. Probably tomorrow.... :-) You even got instructions printed with a brand new toner cartridge.  ;D   

Well the other thing you get with this is that even when you clear that low fuel flashing display, the range function no longer works at the very moment in time when you probably care about it (50 miles and less). This will cause the range function to continue to work. Just bear in mind that it is a calculated estimate and NOT a precise piece of data of the actual fuel range left. I would not push it beyond, say, 12 or 15 miles without refueling, at least not without testing on your own bike. Still, there is a big comfort zone from, say, 45 miles to 20 miles range remaining with virtually no risk of running out of fuel in my opinion and experience. I have had mine down to 7 miles indicated (bike still running so not out of fuel) but the 5.8 gallon tank took a whisker over 6 gallons so I think I was on the edge.

Brian

This has been on my to-do-Farkle list, and I ordered one on Monday.  Feedback and tracking on the order is excellent. 

For me this is a safety issue, because it’s downright dangerous trying to clear the fuel warning with gloves while riding. Pulling over is a PIA.   I try to tell myself to just let it go Ape$h*t until I find gas, but I always seem to end up trying to clear it anyway and regret it every time I try.  This Farkle makes the whole problem go away.  Awesome.  :great:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Rembrant on January 09, 2014, 10:51:20 am
Dear all of you out riding and testing your new low fuel warning eliminators,

You suck.

It's 15 degrees and icy here and my new fuel gadget is still in the box BDF shipped it in.

I already know it's awesome...I just can't use it yet.

Kind regards,

Rembrant. ;D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on January 09, 2014, 12:24:36 pm
No, no- take it OUT of the box and the ice should start to melt....

 :D

Yeah, the roads are clear here but temps. are still below 20F. I did start the bike last night at around 10F and while it did crank slow, it still lit off and idled. Gotta' love F.I. and stick coils (fast voltage rise on the spark arc).

Brian

Dear all of you out riding and testing your new low fuel warning eliminators,

You suck.

It's 15 degrees and icy here and my new fuel gadget is still in the box BDF shipped it in.

I already know it's awesome...I just can't use it yet.

Kind regards,

Rembrant. ;D
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on January 10, 2014, 09:16:20 pm
This Farkel was easier to install than Phil's rack, and that was simple. Speaking of rack, I thought I was going to need the help of The All Girls Garage since the instructions say to use a finger nail and showed a woman's finger.  :rotflmao:

For what it's worth, I had no problem pulling up the harness and putting it back without removing the rubber hose. Its not a big deal to pop the hose off (easy boys) but It wasn't necessary in my case and saved a step in the three step process.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: guzziman3 on March 04, 2014, 11:51:46 am
Finally got out and had a run long enough to fully evaluate the eliminators advantage to me. Previously when the mileage remaining got down to around 40 miles, the low fuel message took over the display making all other info virtually inaccessable.
Now what a transformation!!! Down to 18 miles remaining and she took 21.3 litres, no dramas, no wondering will I make a gas station etc, and all while all the info was still available,  this is one of the best and cheapest improvements I have made.

Thank you Brian, great improvement to a great bike.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on March 04, 2014, 12:54:25 pm
Thanks for the kind words.

Glad you like it. Just be aware that it is an estimate and it can be off by a fair amount so it is best not to 'tease the tiger' in my opinion. It seems to be most accurate on the highway and less so in stop- and- go riding in the city. That sort of works out too though 'cause in the city there are usually plenty of fuel stations around- on the highway it could be many miles between fuel stations.

Thanks again,
Brian

Finally got out and had a run long enough to fully evaluate the eliminators advantage to me. Previously when the mileage remaining got down to around 40 miles, the low fuel message took over the display making all other info virtually inaccessable.
Now what a transformation!!! Down to 18 miles remaining and she took 21.3 litres, no dramas, no wondering will I make a gas station etc, and all while all the info was still available,  this is one of the best and cheapest improvements I have made.

Thank you Brian, great improvement to a great bike.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: PdLt on March 08, 2014, 05:17:08 pm
Hey Brian,

I am thinking about buying another C-14 just so I can try it out.  I wish I had one on my bike when I had it.  Sounds like your device is going over well.  Congrats.  Hope to see you soon.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on July 06, 2014, 05:58:59 pm
I installed the low fuel warning flasher disable gadget some time ago, but have never ridden the bike since for various reasons.

Yesterday I had the bike out for the first time in far too long, and it was very low on fuel. The range said about 21 miles left when I rolled into the gas station.

I've never seen it say 21 miles left, its always been flashing the warning long before then. Nice to see how many miles I could go down that low. I know its just a computer guessing but I've found it to be quite accurate overall when compared to GPS calculated distances and gas stops. And it does take ECCO and engine load/acceleration into account reasonably accurately.

So +1 to this gadget, because I just got to see it work, and it did what it was supposed to do, be invisible and just keep the RANGE visible all the way down.

I griped about my new truck flashing low fuel warnings, but at least it alternates, showing range every minute or so before going back to flashing. If I could get a gadget to stop my truck from doing that like this one for the C14, I'm put it on in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: gpd323 on August 15, 2014, 06:01:29 pm
Got mine installed weeks ago, easy as pie! Went low fuel till about 20 miles left, works just like advertized!!!!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: fast phil on August 16, 2014, 09:17:08 pm
Brian will you have any of these in stock soon.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 16, 2014, 09:41:19 pm
A week or so. I am clean out of stock on everything. The bypasses will be a bit more time as some of the components are winging their way from Japan, perhaps two weeks out. The low fuel warning eliminator components are in stock, just not manufactured yet. I should have some together by the end of next week.

None of this is my fault though- Kirby is in charge of inventory and he has managed this quite badly. I promise to keep an eye on him from now on....

Brian

+
Brian will you have any of these in stock soon.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Rick on August 16, 2014, 10:17:04 pm
The fuel warning eliminator is interesting. I wish there was a way to turn it on and off. I'd like the warning, then be able to acknowledge it and turn the warning off.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on August 16, 2014, 11:05:38 pm
I enjoyed my mod today and cruised beyond 200 miles knowing full well I would need the gas, but did it at my convenience according to the range display and not when the display went ape sh$t. Love this Farkle.  :beerchug:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 17, 2014, 11:06:10 am
Agreed- that would be 'slick' but it is not feasible (read: affordable) to do on this bike.

Brian

The fuel warning eliminator is interesting. I wish there was a way to turn it on and off. I'd like the warning, then be able to acknowledge it and turn the warning off.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 17, 2014, 11:13:07 am
Great- glad to hear when people like the things that I thought were a good idea :-).

Mine almost bit me.... or rather, I almost bit myself (easy boys!) with this thing a couple of days ago. I filled the tank and took a two hour trip (each way), all in one day. That left about a gallon and a half, at a guess, in the tank. Then a bunch of short trips between 10 and 30 miles. WHEN SUDDENLY it occurred to me to look at the fuel level.... and it was at the bottom. Hmmmm. Turn the range function on and it read 18 miles left once it settled down (stopped bouncing due to stop- and- go riding) :-(   There are many methods and devices to address a lack of attention (tow trucks, fire trucks, casts, wheel chairs, caskets) but no real fix IME.  ;)

Brian

I enjoyed my mod today and cruised beyond 200 miles knowing full well I would need the gas, but did it at my convenience according to the range display and not when the display went ape sh$t. Love this Farkle.  :beerchug:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JimH_PA on August 17, 2014, 11:16:18 am
  Funny how I just started and read this thread yesterday....went for a ride and at 190 miles the dreaded low fuel went on.  This was only my 2nd full fill up and I knew I could get at least 10 more miles....decided to go further and did 30.  Had .8 left....fill up took 5.05 gallons.  I will also be putting my name in for a Brian LFW override kit later in the year.  I was able to do the button trick.  It stopped the constant Low fuel on the lcd but the red light stayed on and the E flashed...was able to scroll thru all the different screens but no current average miles displayed like mentioned earlier.  I just used the odometer from when it hit low fuel and figured at least 30 miles should be fine.  Great job Brian in making a useful item for all of us!  Can not wait to order and put on.  Told the wife since I just bought the bike I would wait for awhile before putting any money into it.......
Title: BDF & That pesky low fuel warning
Post by: B59ram on August 24, 2014, 01:44:25 am
So, after switching to a 2014 C14 after having ridden C10s since 1989, I looked for the "Reserve" setting the first time the fuel gauge started getting low.   Well, as you all know (and me, too, now!) we don't have a petcock or "Reserve" any more.  So I did what any other respectable system tester would do, and put a small 2 gallon fuel can in the "cool" saddle bag, and ran that sucker dry.  I made 44 miles riding at about 60 MPH through the twisty upstate NY 2 lane county roads from the point when the intrusive LOW FUEL warning took over the display.
I didn't yet know about the 2 button display over-ride, so had to put up with the flashing display, but at least I now know there's almost exactly 1 gallon left when it hijacks the LCD.
  I do manage my fuel closely, and miss the 300 mile range of the old C10, but do want to get Low Fuel Over-ride circuit from Brian.   As you are currently out of stock, I can't order one today, but would appreciate it if you would queue me up for one as soon as you replenish your supply.   Thanks!!!   
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: C14lvr on August 24, 2014, 02:26:48 am
Not long after I bought my 2011 C14, I took it on it's first multi-state tour.
That was also the first time I ran low enough on fuel that the warning came on, flashing.

What sucked was, I was riding across the Grand Staircase Escalante out in Utah, and I had no idea how much farther I could go before it ran out, nor did I know how far it was to the next station!

Turned out, it was 22 miles to gas, and the bike would go another 40-50 miles...but I didn't know that at the time.

Just put Brian's device on mine last week.
This is cool.
Thanks, Brian.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 24, 2014, 01:09:23 pm
Thanks guys, I LOVE happy customers! Glad to hear the trinket is working out for you and making your riding just a tiny bit better. But as I always caution: get to know how it the fuel system works on YOUR bike before you push it too far. And note that the range indicator will bounce around a lot in stop- and- go driving so for example, a quick glance going into third coming off a stop light is absolutely not an accurate reading. Wait until the bike settles down to a steady speed and the range reading steadies up and it will be more accurate.

Working on the stock situation now. Off to the dungeon in a bit and should have some stock later today.

Brian
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: gpd323 on August 24, 2014, 11:30:18 pm
We tried the dongle on a 2013 ZX14 and ran it down to 5 miles remaining on the dash. The low fuel warning did not popup but we put 4.8 gallons of fuel to the top! So for some reason it does not work on the ZX14. Still had the 1 gallon + reserve in the tank when it showed almost empty.

Just wanted to give you this information. Its now back on the C14.

:motonoises:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: firehawk618 on August 24, 2014, 11:46:54 pm
Here's a funny one.

Mind you this is NOT related to brian's farkle he sells as I crafted my own.

I have had a similar mod installed pretty much since my bike was new.  I was quite used to the behavior of MY DTE readings.

The other evening I jump on my bike to fuel up and was greeted with the DTE shown below.

Mind you, this was not an induced false range but what the bike settled on after a few miles through town.  DTE was actually in the 600's when I initially started the bike lol.

Notice the fuel level is still empty?  Very strange.

I knew I was very near empty because of my spirited riding on that tank along with miles on that tank.

Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: ghostrider990 on August 29, 2014, 03:12:22 pm
Thanks guys, I LOVE happy customers! Glad to hear the trinket is working out for you and making your riding just a tiny bit better. But as I always caution: get to know how it the fuel system works on YOUR bike before you push it too far. And note that the range indicator will bounce around a lot in stop- and- go driving so for example, a quick glance going into third coming off a stop light is absolutely not an accurate reading. Wait until the bike settles down to a steady speed and the range reading steadies up and it will be more accurate.

Working on the stock situation now. Off to the dungeon in a bit and should have some stock later today.

Brian

Brian --
Sent you a pm on Availability status.
Free Bump!  :beerchug:

gr
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: lather on August 30, 2014, 09:07:55 pm
I have been loving this doodad during our 2500 mile tour of see Ozarks and Smokies! During our June trip to South Dakota it was not as usefull with the wildly varying mpgs due to high winds and the long distances between gas. But on this trip where wind was no issue and distances between stations is like 15 miles at most it has been a great tool for managing gas stops together with garmin's fuel poi.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: tchinkov on September 22, 2014, 09:26:29 pm
Brian, when you expect to have the next batch ready for sale? I would like to purchase one.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mattchewn on September 25, 2014, 02:20:50 pm
Brian took his toys and went home.
Personal feelings and comments withheld.
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gypsy JR on September 25, 2014, 06:34:54 pm
Brian took his toys and went home.
Personal feelings and comments withheld.
Matt

Still has his website, yes?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: mattchewn on September 28, 2014, 02:13:37 am
JR,
I have no idea. Haven't bothered to check actually.
Matt
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: ghostrider990 on October 08, 2014, 01:00:53 am
Big thanks to Brian for pulling an "all-nighter" and getting me one of these modules for my trip out west.

I can report, that he is INDEED correct when he says, do NOT exceed more than 10-20miles on distance to empty reading.

I missed an exit (okay, so I pushed it too far) to fill my tank, and remember that my gauge said I had 4, yes FOUR, miles to go before empty.
Sure as sheeit, the bike sputtered a few times, and died without a whole lot of drama.

Yep -- I rode over 2500 miles at that point, and ran it bone dry 10 miles outside of LIncoln, NE.   :-[

Heed the warning.

Damn good mod for the $$$!!!

gr
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Racerboy on October 08, 2014, 08:30:36 pm
This weekend I pushed my miles to empty readout to 4 miles (yes, it was poor planning on my part!) before I was able to stop for gas. The bike didn't run out, but it took 5.48 gallons to fill it up. I had gone 240 miles on that tank.

That is pushing it too close for comfort!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on October 08, 2014, 11:04:30 pm
That is pushing it. I filled up at 5.2 gallons this past weekend and appreciated not having the fuel warning ruin my ride.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: CinciGator on October 17, 2014, 03:54:53 pm
Anyone have instructions on how to install? Received Unit almost a year ago just now getting around to it can't find any instructions
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Butch on October 17, 2014, 09:54:55 pm
I installed one of these the beginning of the week, first the connector itself is a real piece of craftsmanship, I defy anyone to say that it does not belong in the harness. The instructions that he sends with it, including pictures is excellent and it really does only take about
10 minutes and that includes reading instructions. Next-how does it work ? just as he describes, one of the best $50 motorcycle accessories I have ever installed in my 50+ years of riding. Great job--again Thanks!!
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: greenbiker on August 20, 2015, 04:52:30 am
Hi I am the proud owner of a 2015 C 1400, and it looks it does not have a low fuel warning light.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: gPink on August 20, 2015, 08:54:23 am
The model with the upside down dash might not.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on August 20, 2015, 11:10:45 am
Keep riding, and when you get down to 1.1 gallons left, the display will go apeS*it and let you know you need gas.  It will drive you crazy, and you will finally attempt to hold the top button while pressing the lower button to clear the display, only to get the bright red warning light if you are lucky.  The entire time you are fighting to clear the alarm, you are swerving all over the place risking a crash. 

As mentioned, this is the best $50.00 you will spend.  The range works to the end, and you have to assume responsibility for being smart enough to know when to get gas.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: greenbiker on August 20, 2015, 12:59:49 pm
Perfect, thanks for the heads up.

Oh, sorry about the upside down image, I guess that's what happens when taking a picture with an I Phone
And posting the image with a Kindle. l
LOL
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: diablo6v on August 20, 2015, 03:46:08 pm
Are these still available?
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on August 20, 2015, 03:58:23 pm
Are these still available?

The website to order is still up advertising it, so I assume so.

http://www.incontrolne.com/ (http://www.incontrolne.com/)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: SilverConnieRider on August 20, 2015, 04:07:53 pm
I think your problem is related to you having a KMH speedo but are counting Miles.   ;D :rotflmao:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: diablo6v on August 20, 2015, 04:34:49 pm
Thanks I just  bought one..I'm going  to give it a try. I hate that damn LOW FUEL warning.. >:(
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: diablo6v on August 29, 2015, 07:37:14 pm
Thank you so much for a great product. I love this thing. Super easy to install, great instructions and price.  :)
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: konehead on October 31, 2015, 02:10:17 am
Just tried to purchase one and the site says sold out......any Idea when you might be getting some in stock???
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: tchinkov on November 02, 2015, 06:08:04 pm
Keep riding, and when you get down to 1.1 gallons left, the display will go apeS*it and let you know you need gas.  It will drive you crazy, and you will finally attempt to hold the top button while pressing the lower button to clear the display, only to get the bright red warning light if you are lucky.  The entire time you are fighting to clear the alarm, you are swerving all over the place risking a crash. 

As mentioned, this is the best $50.00 you will spend.  The range works to the end, and you have to assume responsibility for being smart enough to know when to get gas.
=1  :-\
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: henerythe8th on November 09, 2015, 08:53:20 pm
Just tried to purchase one and the site says sold out......any Idea when you might be getting some in stock???

I was just notified that there are more in stock and ready for sale...
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: SilverConnieRider on November 09, 2015, 10:38:29 pm
Just tried to purchase one and the site says sold out......any Idea when you might be getting some in stock???

I was just notified that there are more in stock and ready for sale...


Well I hope your right as I just ordered one. 
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: SilverConnieRider on November 19, 2015, 12:59:36 am
Well I received mine on Monday.  A week from the time I ordered until received.  So, I guess there still available.  :great:
About 10 minutes to install, if that.

My season is just about done as 4-6 inches of snow are forecast for the weekend and I have a full tank of gas.
So even IF I get another ride in this year, it's unlikely that I will use enough gas to see if the low fuel warning is now dead gone.   :D

Hurry up Spring - Oh crap Winter hasn't even started yet.  Can't we just skip Winter?  So I don't have to hibernate?  :a012:



Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Sailor_chic on November 20, 2015, 01:30:53 pm
Well I received mine on Monday.  A week from the time I ordered until received.  So, I guess there still available.  :great:
About 10 minutes to install, if that.

My season is just about done as 4-6 inches of snow are forecast for the weekend and I have a full tank of gas.
So even IF I get another ride in this year, it's unlikely that I will use enough gas to see if the low fuel warning is now dead gone.   :D

Hurry up Spring - Oh crap Winter hasn't even started yet.  Can't we just skip Winter?  So I don't have to hibernate?  :a012:

Okay, ill be the first naughty one....  Snow, its still 80 in Florida  :))
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: JS_racer on November 21, 2015, 12:33:53 pm
Well I received mine on Monday.  A week from the time I ordered until received.  So, I guess there still available.  :great:
About 10 minutes to install, if that.

My season is just about done as 4-6 inches of snow are forecast for the weekend and I have a full tank of gas.
So even IF I get another ride in this year, it's unlikely that I will use enough gas to see if the low fuel warning is now dead gone.   :D

Hurry up Spring - Oh crap Winter hasn't even started yet.  Can't we just skip Winter?  So I don't have to hibernate?  :a012:

Okay, ill be the first naughty one....  Snow, its still 80 in Florida  :))

 ???    :'(
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Bugnut on January 30, 2016, 03:09:24 pm
Picked up the gadget last week and spent 37 seconds installing.

Rode down to 16 miles remaining and......ran out of fuel 100 yards from the station I had planned to stop at. Luckily I had enough speed to coast to the pumps. Shocker was the 6.3 gallons to fill 'er up!

Really like this little item, just gotta gauge the final few miles really well! I think 25 or so will be my limit even though I carry an extra gulp of gas.

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/20160129_131121_zpsalsr9qvs.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bugnut_bucket/media/Kawabunga/20160129_131121_zpsalsr9qvs.jpg.html)

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/20160129_131443_zpsfkpohxqb.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bugnut_bucket/media/Kawabunga/20160129_131443_zpsfkpohxqb.jpg.html)

Thanks BDF.
Mike
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Colt45 on February 09, 2016, 07:02:49 pm
What is the web address to buy this intriguing device? 
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: SilverConnieRider on February 09, 2016, 08:31:00 pm
http://www.incontrolne.com/ (http://www.incontrolne.com/)

Then click on products.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: ST eater on February 11, 2016, 12:08:48 am
I've had mine since he came out with them, love it! My ST13 would count down to 20 miles to go and then it would flat line, much better than the whole screen becoming a flashing gas pump. Wonderful farkle :beerchug:
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Throttle 8 on February 11, 2016, 12:47:55 am
If you are going to Helen for the National rally, and you bring a couple to sell; I will buy one off you Brian. I live in Canada, and have had my fill of dealing with Customs and stoopid government people for the next while.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Sailor Rich on February 11, 2016, 11:20:13 am
If you are going to Helen for the National rally, and you bring a couple to sell; I will buy one off you Brian. I live in Canada, and have had my fill of dealing with Customs and stoopid government people for the next while.


The best place contact Brian is his web site http://www.incontrolne.com/ (http://www.incontrolne.com/) as he does not frequent this site any more.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: robertv on February 11, 2016, 01:58:23 pm
I know he frequents the other board, but also try PM'ing him.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 16, 2017, 03:47:05 pm
Just happened to see this post, have not been on this forum for quite a while!

Well, sorry that happened to you but the range estimate can bounce around quite a bit in stop- and- go riding, so unless you are almost staring at it, a glance down could well give you a pretty 'enthusiastic' reading of range. What happens is the bike's ECU calculates the mileage based on what is happening at that exact second, so if you happen to see the range indicator when slowing down, or when the clutch is pulled in and coasting, it may give a very high reading. And one that you cannot sustain- you cannot go very far with the engine idling and the clutch pulled in. :-)  So in city, stop and go riding, I suggest watching the range more often and always taking the LOWEST reading as gospel; yours reading 16 miles, it was probably bouncing 10 miles, both + and -, so at some point it was almost certainly in single digits.

I am still pretty easy to contact via e-mail (all forum PM's are blocked, not this one specifically but all forums that I use, because I could not keep up with multiple contacts, it is confusing and I was always forgetting someone) at the e-mail shown at the top / left of this screen. Also easy to find via a Google search. And as always, happy to answer any questions or discuss whatever parts of the C-14 that I may have some knowledge about.

Glad to see though that most people seem to like my products; it is great having happy customers because it makes interactions very pleasant. Anyway, I do check in here now and then so I should catch any posts regarding things like this one (fuel warning eliminator), the dreaded KiPass, Rostra and similar. But e-mail always works and I respond to all, even if I cannot help.

Brian

Picked up the gadget last week and spent 37 seconds installing.

Rode down to 16 miles remaining and......ran out of fuel 100 yards from the station I had planned to stop at. Luckily I had enough speed to coast to the pumps. Shocker was the 6.3 gallons to fill 'er up!

Really like this little item, just gotta gauge the final few miles really well! I think 25 or so will be my limit even though I carry an extra gulp of gas.

([url]http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/20160129_131121_zpsalsr9qvs.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bugnut_bucket/media/Kawabunga/20160129_131121_zpsalsr9qvs.jpg.html[/url])

([url]http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/20160129_131443_zpsfkpohxqb.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bugnut_bucket/media/Kawabunga/20160129_131443_zpsfkpohxqb.jpg.html[/url])

Thanks BDF.
Mike
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on August 16, 2017, 11:24:31 pm

([url]http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/20160129_131121_zpsalsr9qvs.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bugnut_bucket/media/Kawabunga/20160129_131121_zpsalsr9qvs.jpg.html[/url])


Curiosity got a hold of me! What is that triangular LED light thingamajig on top of the instrument cluster? 

Cheers...
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 16, 2017, 11:36:59 pm
My guess.. radar...
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on August 17, 2017, 12:05:38 am
I believe it is a radar detector warning light. Not the detector itself but just an indicator that goes off when a certain threshold is met for the detector.

Brian

Curiosity got a hold of me! What is that triangular LED light thingamajig on top of the instrument cluster? 

Cheers...
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: dcjens on February 18, 2018, 06:41:59 pm
Bump
Old thread, another happy rider that gets rid of the low fuel warning hostile takeover.
Great communication from Brian, fast shipping.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: BDF on March 03, 2018, 09:32:51 pm
Thank you for the kind words.

Brian

Bump
Old thread, another happy rider that gets rid of the low fuel warning hostile takeover.
Great communication from Brian, fast shipping.
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Gottafly on June 16, 2018, 02:38:13 pm
Brian, I’m interested in ordering if they are still available..but I do not see any email/contact info anywhere on the thread. It may be due to the fact that I just joined. Thnx
Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: 4Bikes on June 16, 2018, 04:10:54 pm
You will want one. Here is the link
http://www.incontrolne.com/ (http://www.incontrolne.com/)



Title: Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
Post by: Bill on July 17, 2018, 09:26:11 am
Hi everyone, I had this item on my 2012 ad loved it. Now I want to put it on my new 2017 and it seems Mama Kaw did some changes in the wiring under the seat. Can someone tell me where this goes on the newer models??

Thanks, Bill