Author Topic: two brothers exhaust  (Read 6860 times)

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Offline ZG

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2014, 11:29:47 pm »
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))



Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???


Okay you say it makes 133 out of the box, his was down a bit, 5-hp that's certainly within a normal range, and then with a pipe and PCV it went to 142, what is so unbelievable about that. It is totally within a reasonable expectation. 14 hp with a pipe and a tune, you're talking 11%


With a full system, that would be right in line. I read it that he just did a slip-on, did I misread that?  ???

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Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2014, 04:13:42 am »
Anyone have the Two Brothers Exhaust with the Sound Reduction Tips installed?
Just curious if that makes it more like stock Noise Level wise?

THANKS!

Offline Big Mike

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2014, 12:11:59 pm »
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))



Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???


Okay you say it makes 133 out of the box, his was down a bit, 5-hp that's certainly within a normal range, and then with a pipe and PCV it went to 142, what is so unbelievable about that. It is totally within a reasonable expectation. 14 hp with a pipe and a tune, you're talking 11%


With a full system, that would be right in line. I read it that he just did a slip-on, did I misread that?  ???


That's how I understood it, slip on, not a ZX full system..

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Offline spencer

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2014, 02:00:25 pm »
I get that it was only a slip on, which by itself is worth probably 5-hp and the PCV by itself is worth around another 5-hp. Sometimes the combination is worth more than the sum of its parts. The conditions could have changed between stock and mods, and maybe his stock exhaust was extremely restrictive and that's why his original number was low. I have seen a lot of dyno runs, enough to know that it is not outside the realm of possibility.
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Offline Texnotes

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2014, 09:39:42 pm »
First of all the stock pipe weighed 20 pounds while the slip weighed in at 6 pounds so thats an advantage.

I purchased a Radio Shack digital sound level meter model 3300099 to measure the sound levels.  Readings were taken at one (1) foot from the end of the pipes on the "A" setting and fast sample.  Same spot in my garage with the door open for all tests.  Readings were taken at idle speed of approximately 1050 RPM.

The stock pipe read at 85dB.  The Two Brothers slip on read 95dB.  And the Two Brothers slip with P1X power tip sound reducer read at 91dB.

Also without the reducer the engine popped quite a bit on deceleration.

So, weight loss yes however the noise levels are a matter of my personal preference but I will leave the reducer in.

Stay tuned, Gerald
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Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2014, 10:15:15 pm »
TN,

Thanks for the Loudness measurements.

Offline Big Mike

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2014, 12:31:03 pm »
First of all the stock pipe weighed 20 pounds while the slip weighed in at 6 pounds so thats an advantage.

I purchased a Radio Shack digital sound level meter model 3300099 to measure the sound levels.  Readings were taken at one (1) foot from the end of the pipes on the "A" setting and fast sample.  Same spot in my garage with the door open for all tests.  Readings were taken at idle speed of approximately 1050 RPM.

The stock pipe read at 85dB.  The Two Brothers slip on read 95dB.  And the Two Brothers slip with P1X power tip sound reducer read at 91dB.

Also without the reducer the engine popped quite a bit on deceleration.

So, weight loss yes however the noise levels are a matter of my personal preference but I will leave the reducer in.

Stay tuned, Gerald

Good info, Thanks Gerald !  :great:
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2014, 03:15:40 pm »
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))



Sorry bro, but...




FWIW, the C14 comes out of box at 133... So my only guess is whoever is doing yer dyno work has a dude behind the curtain doing funny business.  ???

I trust this guy and I'm standing there watching. My disappointment was the stock HP :-\, I read a report when I was shopping for buying the C14 that the stock HP was out of the box 139HP, I assure you there was that much change :)

For one thing 128 is too low for a stock C14 at the rear wheel (not the crank).  Second thing is you should not gain any appreciable or noticeable increase in HP with any slip on exhaust.
Only the weight loss and the louder sound makes it faster on your butt  and in your head  but not on a dyno.
Would someone explain what does this part mean; 'with the pipe'  What does that mean? What pipe?
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Offline spencer

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2014, 04:02:00 pm »
With all due respect to Daytona Mike, not all slip-on pipes are the same, and some DO increase HP.

http://www.superstreetbike.com/test-16-slip-exhaust-systems-pipes-installed-and-rated-pipe-dreams/?image=0
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2014, 06:29:46 pm »
With all due respect to Daytona Mike, not all slip-on pipes are the same, and some DO increase HP.

http://www.superstreetbike.com/test-16-slip-exhaust-systems-pipes-installed-and-rated-pipe-dreams/?image=0

Slow down there!! We are only talking about a C14 with the cat in the header. No other bikes ok.
Notice I said ' appreciable or noticeable' . All slip on'swill quote some form  of gains but most of those are typically at peak RPM and not where most of us ride our bikes. In some cases it will even lower mid range torque because of loss of back pressure. We are not talking about 2007 Suzuki GSX-R1000, 2007 Kawasaki ZX-14 and a 2008 Suzuki Hayabusa.

Put is this way- Dont buy a slip on and think your going to go faster on a C14 because of it (except for the instant weight loss). Dynos have shown little to no increase in HP and torque on the  C14's.
There have been a few posters here that have expressed this same disappointment.
This is why I am trying to help those that would read this thread and now  think they could go from 128 hp to 142 hp with any slip on. It is just not going to happen.
Loud does not mean 'more power'. Look at the link you posted. A new slip on got this increase and that would have been taken at red line 
 An increase of   +0.7 hp+0.1 lb.-ft. I think that definitely falls into the not 'appreciable or noticeable' category. Some one could have  walked to close the the bike's intake while it was on the dyno and farted  to get those numbers.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 06:53:18 pm by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline Copperdawg

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2014, 07:32:49 pm »
with the two brothers black, pcv the dyno doesn't lie...box stock the dyno showed 128hp ;D, with the pipe, pcv  the dyno showed 142hp. :motonoises:
Wonder or no that's what it showed :))



A Slip on and a Power Commander (pcv) with a proper tune will give you these gains on a C14. Another COG member (shawnzilla) put down 145 with  only a Two Brothers and a PCIII. This was at sea level and the next bike on the dyno that day was a stock 2013 Zx1400. It showed right at 185 at the wheel. Maybe the dyno was a little off (high or low) but the Connie did show those gains.

Pat

Offline spencer

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2014, 08:08:51 pm »

With all due respect to Daytona Mike, not all slip-on pipes are the same, and some DO increase HP.

http://www.superstreetbike.com/test-16-slip-exhaust-systems-pipes-installed-and-rated-pipe-dreams/?image=0

Slow down there!! We are only talking about a C14 with the cat in the header. No other bikes ok.
Notice I said ' appreciable or noticeable' . All slip on'swill quote some form  of gains but most of those are typically at peak RPM and not where most of us ride our bikes. In some cases it will even lower mid range torque because of loss of back pressure. We are not talking about 2007 Suzuki GSX-R1000, 2007 Kawasaki ZX-14 and a 2008 Suzuki Hayabusa.

Put is this way- Dont buy a slip on and think your going to go faster on a C14 because of it (except for the instant weight loss). Dynos have shown little to no increase in HP and torque on the  C14's.
There have been a few posters here that have expressed this same disappointment.
This is why I am trying to help those that would read this thread and now  think they could go from 128 hp to 142 hp with any slip on. It is just not going to happen.
Loud does not mean 'more power'. Look at the link you posted. A new slip on got this increase and that would have been taken at red line 
 An increase of   +0.7 hp+0.1 lb.-ft. I think that definitely falls into the not 'appreciable or noticeable' category. Some one could have  walked to close the the bike's intake while it was on the dyno and farted  to get those numbers.
[/quote]

The gain from 128-142 was with a slip-on AND a PCV, NOT just a slip-on. My original point was that it is possible to get to a gain like that with that combination. The purpose of the link was just to show that gains are possible with just a slip-on. Yes some gained less than 1-hp while the TBR gained 4.2 hp. I acknowledge they were not C14's, but I can't believe the difference would be much.

The other point I was trying to make originally was that if it only put down 128-hp to start with then either the stock pipe had an issue or the factory tune  was off enough to create the low number.

I never said that with a slip-on a 14 hp gain is normal or expected, etc.
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Offline MJinCP

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2014, 09:49:25 pm »
With all due respect to Daytona Mike, not all slip-on pipes are the same, and some DO increase HP.

http://www.superstreetbike.com/test-16-slip-exhaust-systems-pipes-installed-and-rated-pipe-dreams/?image=0

  ~snip ~ . Some one could have  walked to close the the bike's intake while it was on the dyno and farted  to get those numbers.


Now that's my kinda HP mod!
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Offline Boomer

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2014, 09:30:30 am »
The other point I was trying to make originally was that if it only put down 128-hp to start with then either the stock pipe had an issue or the factory tune  was off enough to create the low number.
Or the most likely option is that the dyno has not been calibrated for a while.
I have seen some wild dyno numbers over the years and the static numbers vary wildly.
A dyno is only useful for same day/same bike/same dyno comparisons.

A 14bhp gain with a pipe and PC3 sounds about right.
Gains just adding a pipe with a CAT in the headers is unlikely.
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Offline cuda

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2014, 09:26:32 pm »
Yeah one day it was 95 degrees with 90% humidity and the other day it was 75 and 35% humidity , night and day  in the power world.
How much do most folks charge for dyno time?
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Offline 1warlock

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2014, 12:47:28 am »
I really didn't make this up for attention, however I've been in a round about way called a liar..I do have the DYNO readouts for before and after(if that means anything). The knowledge that some responders have or seems to have, should apply for an Engineering position with Kawasaki. My seat of the pants HP readout does show an increase in HP(how much I don't know) My a$$ doesn't seem to be able to Calibrate the actual amount.  Finally I do recommend a two brothers black and a PCV. I love the sound and The Feel Of Additional HP :)

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2014, 01:54:10 pm »
I also love my 2Bros Titanium.
I love the way a blip of the throttle turns heads when I'm lane-sharing.
I love the low burble at idle,.. and I love the howl when when I give her the beans.
If it gives me more power, I don't care.  :) :great: :beerchug:
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Offline ZG

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2014, 10:12:26 pm »
I really didn't make this up for attention, however I've been in a round about way called a liar..I do have the DYNO readouts for before and after(if that means anything). The knowledge that some responders have or seems to have, should apply for an Engineering position with Kawasaki. My seat of the pants HP readout does show an increase in HP(how much I don't know) My a$$ doesn't seem to be able to Calibrate the actual amount.  Finally I do recommend a two brothers black and a PCV. I love the sound and The Feel Of Additional HP :)

I never called you a liar bro, but I do think that the shop's dyno is out of calibration or something else is going on... I blame the shop, not you. ???

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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2014, 03:40:06 am »
No no we did mean for you to take it that way. Your not a liar. 
It is just that I have  seen  dyno charts  that show no real improvements with just a slip on- You made your gains with the PCV is what I think and this pipe you mentioned which I still dont know what that is. Maybe you meant mid pipe.
We had  done some  group dyno days with stock and stock with slip-ons and they both  dyno'd the same- 133 hp.
Also we have had many posters come here tell they got no improvement with just a slip on other than the weight change and the sound.
That is all we are saying.  You did real well. Your engine did respond well.  For others there is no need to do  a remap with just a slip on so they see no gains. This is why we try and do dynos one change at a time to see what really did effect the change.It is best to make the change and dyno the same day. Humidity and air temp have a big effect on HP. Your first number was just too low for some reason.
When we do a full header upgrade that does require a fuel remap.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 03:46:53 am by Daytona_Mike »
Normally aspirated engines have perpetual turbo lag
2000 Red C10 1052 kit 100+HP  + way more torque.
2008  C14 Silver Dammit Full AreaP- Flies are put back in SISF_Flash
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Offline cuda

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2014, 11:20:35 am »

When we do a full header upgrade that does require a fuel remap.

I hate to see this posted, I've had ZX14 cat free headers for over two years,  first with the stock ECU , then the Guhl flash, from my understanding Guhl leans  out the fuel curve  about 10% I asked to have the flys open soon as possible and he knew I had the ZX headers with Two Brothers twin cans, It still seams a little rich to me , but I do live in Naples Fl,  it is HOT and humid here, I went out to play last night , shut off the KTRAC and raced a mustang from a light , I lifted the front tire for what seemed like 50 ft ;)
Like I said , I ran the bike with the stock fuel map which is real rich , you DON'T need anything changed to run cat free headers, BUT it's more fun if you do :beerchug:
What I think happen with the dyno test above was the  operator wanted to show a big gain so you have a lower number than any I've heard but then again we have the temp & humidity factor?
Another point I'd like to add, I used 87 a lot , last night it was pure 87 and it was running real good, high octane slows the burn ... less power.
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Offline Boostmeister

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Re: two brothers exhaust
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2014, 12:14:31 pm »
I have a 2008 C14 and added a TBR carbon slip on.  I didn't want a loud system that beats you up on long days in the saddle.  So far I have been very pleased with the TBR system.  The stock bike is rich enough that there is no need for a Power Commander and a dyno tune.  About a year after adding the TBR, I opted for a Guhl reflash.  Overall a good combination that doesn't have an adverse impact on fuel economy.  In fact my 2008 C14 sips fuel as good as, or better than my buddies with newer C14's in ECO mode.

For those on the forum that don't like the popping on decel after adding a slip on, there is an easy fix.  The fix took less than 10 minutes to perform and eliminates most all of the deceleration popping.

http://www.holeshot.com/Concours_c14/c14decel_inst.html