Author Topic: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?  (Read 16736 times)

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Offline ZG

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Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« on: June 27, 2013, 01:33:55 am »
 ???
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Offline RoadRocket

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 09:56:25 am »
Is this your next project?  :)
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Offline Egodriver71

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 01:04:02 pm »
ZX14 should.

I would think the R would also.

Biggest thing you'll have to work around is the cam phasing.  The ZX14 does not have that.  I'm not sure if you would want to keep it or just bypass it?
Thomas Mann
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Offline ZG

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 02:27:10 pm »
Is this your next project?  :)

Maybe, ya never know...  >:D

Everyone always says the C14 motor is just a de-tuned ZX14 motor, so I'm trying to understand why it wouldn't work and what all it would take to make it work...  ???
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Offline ConcoursKZ

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Offline ZG

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 03:08:34 pm »
http://www.noswizard.com/bike-nitrous-kits-2/street-bike-nitrous-kits/street-bike-dry-nitrous-kits/street-pro-bd2-150-bhp-bike-dry-nitrous-kit.html


I was thinking the ZX14 or ZX14R route might be a little more long term reliable though right? Also I think I read up about somebody that turbo'd theirs and it caused some damage...  ???
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Offline ConcoursKZ

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 03:59:07 pm »
http://www.noswizard.com/bike-nitrous-kits-2/street-bike-nitrous-kits/street-bike-dry-nitrous-kits/street-pro-bd2-150-bhp-bike-dry-nitrous-kit.html


I was thinking the ZX14 or ZX14R route might be a little more long term reliable though right? Also I think I read up about somebody that turbo'd theirs and it caused some damage...  ???


Yes but you don't really ride that bike. Its a show bike for pictures and such isn't it? I keep hoping for pics with hot chicks on the bike. :)) :)) :) :)
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Offline LakeTrax

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 04:16:16 pm »
Dunno if a ZX14 engine would just drop right in or not, but my guess is that there would be some necessary modifications. Also gotta remember that you would then be dealing with the issue of chain vs. shaft final drive...

Offline ZG

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 04:31:19 pm »
http://www.noswizard.com/bike-nitrous-kits-2/street-bike-nitrous-kits/street-bike-dry-nitrous-kits/street-pro-bd2-150-bhp-bike-dry-nitrous-kit.html


I was thinking the ZX14 or ZX14R route might be a little more long term reliable though right? Also I think I read up about somebody that turbo'd theirs and it caused some damage...  ???


Yes but you don't really ride that bike. Its a show bike for pictures and such isn't it?


Nope, she's a rider CKZ, what makes you think she's not?  ???
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Offline Racerboy

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 04:32:39 pm »
Dunno if a ZX14 engine would just drop right in or not, but my guess is that there would be some necessary modifications. Also gotta remember that you would then be dealing with the issue of chain vs. shaft final drive...

That would be no small issue to deal with.

Offline ZG

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 04:33:00 pm »
Dunno if a ZX14 engine would just drop right in or not, but my guess is that there would be some necessary modifications. Also gotta remember that you would then be dealing with the issue of chain vs. shaft final drive...

I want to keep the shaft drive, that's why I'm asking the question on what would need to be modified...

Everyone says they are the same motor, just that the C14 motor is de-tuned, is that not true?  ???
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Offline ConcoursKZ

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 05:33:25 pm »
http://www.noswizard.com/bike-nitrous-kits-2/street-bike-nitrous-kits/street-bike-dry-nitrous-kits/street-pro-bd2-150-bhp-bike-dry-nitrous-kit.html


I was thinking the ZX14 or ZX14R route might be a little more long term reliable though right? Also I think I read up about somebody that turbo'd theirs and it caused some damage...  ???


Yes but you don't really ride that bike. Its a show bike for pictures and such isn't it?


Nope, she's a rider CKZ, what makes you think she's not?  ???


Just messin with you. :)
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Offline Egodriver71

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 06:19:31 pm »
Dunno if a ZX14 engine would just drop right in or not, but my guess is that there would be some necessary modifications. Also gotta remember that you would then be dealing with the issue of chain vs. shaft final drive...


Some review of Dan Bergmen's ZRX1200 install would most likely shed some light on this.

http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/Bergmen/library/Motorcycling/ZGRX%201200%20Concours%20Project?sort=2&page=1#/user/Bergmen/library/Motorcycling/ZGRX%201200%20Concours%20Project?sort=3&page=1&_suid=137236068741408367142852742604

He had little difficulty converting from chain to shaft and from 5spd to 6spd.  It pretty much dropped in.

I'm sure that Kawi didn't do that much to change from the ZX14 to the ZG14.

Other than the cam phasing and the chain drive, the only other thing I could say is pistons are probably different.

We know ZX14 throttle bodies bolt up.

Plus you wouldn't have to fabricate a front motor mount/cage.



« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 06:22:06 pm by Egodriver71 »
Thomas Mann
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Offline jonathan

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 06:39:30 pm »
If you use the ZX14 motor and heads then the cam phasing is not an issue. The engine should bolt right in and you would just need to convert it from chain to shaft drive. I think the fun part would be wiring in the ZX14 ECU.
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Offline LakeTrax

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 07:15:40 pm »
They say the C14 engine is a "detuned" ZX14 engine, but it goes a little deeper than that... it's based on the ZX14 engine with similarities in architecture. Here's what little I do know (All comparisons are between the C14 & the 2011 and earlier ZX14):

-They share they same crankshaft, bore, and stroke.
-Connecting rods are they same.
-Valves are the same, but heads are different.
-Pistons are different.
-Crankcases are different.
-ZX14 12.0:1 compression ratio, C14 10.7:1 compression ratio
-C14 has a "slipper" clutch assembly, 2011 and earlier ZX14 does not.
-C14 camshafts use oil flow & pressure to achieve variable valve timing, ZX14 does not.
-All transmission gear ratios are different. *Interesting note: ZX14's 3rd gear ratio is 1.545(34/22), It is 4th gear in the C14.
-And obviously, C14 has shaft drive final output. ZX14 has chain.

If you use the ZX14 motor and heads then the cam phasing is not an issue. The engine should bolt right in and you would just need to convert it from chain to shaft drive. I think the fun part would be wiring in the ZX14 ECU.
You are exactly right jonathan. Even if a ZX14 engine bolts right up and is easily converted to shaft drive, the difficulty would lie with getting all of the electronics sorted. >:(
Considering all the time, effort, and resources it would take, I would think that doing a total performance/blueprinting build with an existing C14 engine would be easier and net similar or even better results.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 07:24:50 pm by LakeTrax »

Offline Rembrant

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2013, 07:46:15 pm »
Switching from the chain drive output to bevel gear would be the least of my worries...

Of course I haven't researched it, but I betcha they're interchangeable...that is of course, if you were to change the transmission as well.

Swapping a ZX-14 engine into a C-14 would be a cool project...lol. Nothing I'd ever do, but I'd enjoy seeing it unfold as somebody else's project...lol.
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Offline Egodriver71

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 07:56:36 pm »
Why wire in the ZX14 ECU?

Have Guhl flash your C14 ECU for the cam timing and the CR.

Only issue I have with the cam phasing is if it will cause the ECU to go into limp mode if you disable it.

Everything else should bolt-in, swap right over.
Thomas Mann
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1930 Indian 101 Scout (the first bike)(still in the garage)
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Offline LakeTrax

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2013, 08:12:52 pm »
Why wire in the ZX14 ECU?

Have Guhl flash your C14 ECU for the cam timing and the CR.

Only issue I have with the cam phasing is if it will cause the ECU to go into limp mode if you disable it.

Everything else should bolt-in, swap right over.

I'm no electronics expert, so it ALL seems daunting to me... but you mention Guhl flashing for cam timing? All I've ever heard is that he changes/tweaks the fuel maps, and he can also change the timing & rate of the butterflies opening and closing. I'v never heard about him changing the ignition tables as well??? I'm sure Fred or someone else could shed some light on this...
One other difference between the two engines that I forgot to mention is that the ZX14's shifter is splined directly to the shift-shaft. On the C14, the shifter pivots by the footpeg and actuates the shift-shaft via linkage/rod.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:19:48 pm by LakeTrax »

Offline ZG

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 09:26:52 pm »
Some great info coming out now on this thread, thanks guys, keep it coming!  :popcorncouple:

The more I hear the more I want to do it, since it sounds like nobody else has yet.  >:D
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Offline runnerb0y

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 10:17:55 pm »
Some great info coming out now on this thread, thanks guys, keep it coming!  :popcorncouple:

The more I hear the more I want to do it, since it sounds like nobody else has yet>:D
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Offline notsluggo

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 12:05:43 am »
Wouldn't it just be easier to graft the fairings, bars, bags, and whatnot onto a ZX14?  Skip the final drive issue and just go with the better-power-transfer-chain.
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Offline ZG

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 01:10:05 am »
Wouldn't it just be easier to graft the fairings, bars, bags, and whatnot onto a ZX14?  Skip the final drive issue and just go with the better-power-transfer-chain.

Easier does not mean better NS, I want all the comfort and ergo features the C14 gives me...  :)

If I wanted to ride a ZX14 I'd buy a ZX14...  :loco:
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Offline salmonhead

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 01:42:51 am »
ZG, if you remember my oil leak issue you will also remember that the ZX14 will not drop right in. The shaft drive and the drive are not interchangeable. >:(

Offline ZG

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 02:48:33 am »
ZG, if you remember my oil leak issue you will also remember that the ZX14 will not drop right in. The shaft drive and the drive are not interchangeable. >:(

I do remember yer pain unfortunately brother...  :'(

I'm still hopeful to find a way to make it work...  ;)

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Offline PaleRider

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Re: Will a ZX14 or ZX14R motor etc drop right into a C14?
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 03:00:02 am »
But would your FOB still work?
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