Author Topic: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing  (Read 21277 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jeff Kerkow

  • Officer
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1377
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 7524
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« on: February 01, 2014, 01:39:12 pm »
I have purchased and received the Woolrich software for modifying the  ECU on my 2010 C14. The bike is bone stock and my only goal is to modify the secondary throttle plate opening rates. I have read the posts regarding this change and I believe I have a good plan on how i will make my modifications.

i know of a few others who have purchased this software for their C14. I hope to use this thread to post my experiences and results and I am hoping others will chime in with their goals and results. Sadly it is to cold out right now to do anything but type in the forum and review videos and posts regarding tuning.
It's not a competition, It's a demonstration. "Rowan"
COG 7524 IBA 46513 GLMC 214
16 KTM 690R, 11 Concours 14, 07 Ninja 650 R

Offline Cold Streak

  • Cold Streak
  • Moped
  • **
  • Posts: 209
  • 952-215-2264
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 8811
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 01:54:16 pm »
I will be doing the same as you on a similar time schedule. I live in the Twin Cities of MN. Perhaps a tech session this spring would be appropriate to make the changes. I just got my box of hardware! Meanwhile back to skiing.
COG #8811
14 Kawi KLR650 NE
08 Kawi Concours
75 Kawi H1

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 12:15:18 am »
I know of a few others who have purchased this software for their C14.

I have received my Woolich kit a couple weeks ago and have been playing with it a little. I have 'read' the stock ECU program, made some changes, and uploaded it to the ECU. As far as ECU reading and writing, everything seems to work ok. You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

I've been working with a spare ECU that I can try in the bike later on.

I've started converting a PC5 map over to the ECU, but I've only just started...I'll carry on with it as time (and interest) allow. I won't be riding for 2 months yet anyway:(

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline Con05_NH

  • Mini Bike
  • **
  • Posts: 100
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 8318
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 01:28:31 am »
What does it cost?

Offline Jeff Kerkow

  • Officer
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1377
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 7524
  • Membership Level: Area Director
It's not a competition, It's a demonstration. "Rowan"
COG 7524 IBA 46513 GLMC 214
16 KTM 690R, 11 Concours 14, 07 Ninja 650 R

Offline LakeTrax

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1129
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2014, 03:24:04 am »
I know of a few others who have purchased this software for their C14.

I have received my Woolich kit a couple weeks ago and have been playing with it a little. I have 'read' the stock ECU program, made some changes, and uploaded it to the ECU. As far as ECU reading and writing, everything seems to work ok. You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

I've been working with a spare ECU that I can try in the bike later on.

I've started converting a PC5 map over to the ECU, but I've only just started...I'll carry on with it as time (and interest) allow. I won't be riding for 2 months yet anyway:(
Have you done any fooling around with the butterfly maps yet, or just been messing with the fueling?
The main reason I want to buy this set-up(just like LSGiant) would be to adjust the opening times/rates of the secondary 'flies. Looking forward to feedback on that-

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 09:54:08 am »
Have you done any fooling around with the butterfly maps yet, or just been messing with the fueling?
The main reason I want to buy this set-up(just like LSGiant) would be to adjust the opening times/rates of the secondary 'flies. Looking forward to feedback on that-

Hiya Lake,

Yes, I've played around with the secondary butterflies a bit....but keep in mind, I'm only bench testing, with a spare Gen 2 C14 ECU, I haven't done any road-testing yet. I won't be riding until around the beginning of April.
I can swap this ECU in later, or flash the one in the bike.

The stock mapping for the secondary butterflies is even more restrictive than I expected...it's no wonder there is some 'hidden' power there. I don't know where I got this, but I thought I had read somewhere before that the secondary flies were wide open by something like 5500 RPM anyway. In looking at the high gear butterfly map, where I would often be riding, at 4000 RPM and 50% throttle, the flies are only open 40%. At 6500 RPM they're only open about 65%. They never really hit 100% until WOT close to the redline.

When I get to it, I will modify my butterfly map(s) for all gears so that they start to open just above idle, and are 100% open by, lets say...3500-3600 RPM. That's my plan at least....I will modify the fuel maps at the same time as well. Changing them is easy...just a couple clicks of the mouse.

I can't do much in the way of real-world tuning until A. The stupid winter is over...lol, and B. my PC5 and Area-P exhaust show up! There are other Kawi guys that are successfully tuning their ECU's using PC5's w/ Autotune. It takes a little bit to get it all sorted, but in the end you have a nicely tuned ECU.

Does any of that make any sense?...lol. Once one of us, or a few of us, get tuned and dialed in, then we can share maps...between users/bikes with the same set-ups.
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline gPink

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3196
  • MMVIII C XIV
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 12:54:07 pm »
Rem, is there anything you can see in the ecu that regulates the on/off temp for the cooling fans?

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 01:04:56 pm »
Rem, is there anything you can see in the ecu that regulates the on/off temp for the cooling fans?

Nope, it's not in the WRT software unfortunately. The WRT software currently only reads the 'essential' data for tuning. Coolant temp and setting data is not available...not yet at least.

This was something that was really cool with the couple Triumphs I had. With the TuneECU software, you had access to all kinds of 'extras' in the ECU...speedo calibration, throttle body vacuum, and you could select the on-temp for the rad fan, which I thought was a really neat feature.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 01:11:41 pm by Rembrant »
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7837
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 01:33:35 pm »
Rembrant - can you tune the secondary flies to different opening points depending on gear and throttle position?  Things that would interest me would to have them open sooner with hard throttle application, but have them more closed  when light throttle cruising in high gear to help economy. In other words less based on rpm and more on throttle input. Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Jeff Kerkow

  • Officer
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1377
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 7524
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2014, 01:56:24 pm »
Steve I have yet to try it but from what I can see from the video yes there are maps for each gear.
It's not a competition, It's a demonstration. "Rowan"
COG 7524 IBA 46513 GLMC 214
16 KTM 690R, 11 Concours 14, 07 Ninja 650 R

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2014, 02:32:07 pm »
Rembrant - can you tune the secondary flies to different opening points depending on gear and throttle position?  Things that would interest me would to have them open sooner with hard throttle application, but have them more closed  when light throttle cruising in high gear to help economy. In other words less based on rpm and more on throttle input. Steve

Yes. The secondary butterfly maps are graphed by RPM and Throttle position...you can select the opening time, and speed. You could adjust it however you like. There are different maps for neutral, gears 1-2, 3-4, and 5-6, although the 1-2 and 3-4 maps appear to be exactly the same.

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline LakeTrax

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1129
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 02:44:38 pm »
Rembrant - can you tune the secondary flies to different opening points depending on gear and throttle position?  Things that would interest me would to have them open sooner with hard throttle application, but have them more closed  when light throttle cruising in high gear to help economy. In other words less based on rpm and more on throttle input. Steve

Yes. The secondary butterfly maps are graphed by RPM and Throttle position...you can select the opening time, and speed. You could adjust it however you like. There are different maps for neutral, gears 1-2, 3-4, and 5-6, although the 1-2 and 3-4 maps appear to be exactly the same.
Excellent! >:D

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7837
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 02:47:04 pm »
 I'm interested in how that works. I don't have traction control on my 09, I think some secondary control could be good , but it can also neuter the bike.
  I'd actually like to experiment with cruise condition, whereby you set a given speed (let's use 75 mph) and then slowly close the secondary butterflies to improve velocity. I don't think this could be done through just mapping, You'ld need to actually ride the bike, or have it on the dyno as adjustments are made. I have a system to do this on my cv carbs on my c-10, and I have seen a change of 6 mpg by dropping the slides during cruise. Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline gPink

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3196
  • MMVIII C XIV
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 02:51:15 pm »
Your thought is that the secondaries increase velocity rather than choke airflow?

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7837
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2014, 03:09:06 pm »
Your thought is that the secondaries increase velocity rather than choke airflow?

It will do either, depending on it's position. I've never experimented with this on EFI. I could see it being more beneficial on oversized throttle bodies, don't know if there's anything to be gained on the c-14 stock TB's. Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7837
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2014, 03:11:51 pm »
I'm also curious how remapping can be done efficiently / effectively without a way to measure load output (a dyno) and a/f ratio (wb02).  Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline gPink

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3196
  • MMVIII C XIV
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2014, 03:22:22 pm »
I'm also curious how remapping can be done efficiently / effectively without a way to measure load output (a dyno) and a/f ratio (wb02).  Steve
...which brings us back to PCv with Autotune to build the maps and the software to flash them to the ecu. Getting expensive.

Offline LakeTrax

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1129
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2014, 03:33:54 pm »
I'm also curious how remapping can be done efficiently / effectively without a way to measure load output (a dyno) and a/f ratio (wb02).  Steve
Technically, it can't be Steve.
You can probably get pretty close to a good a/f ratio with enough time and trial and error. Just keep tweaking and test riding and going by "seat-of-the-pants" feel. That really isn't optimal though- Dyno time is the best, or the PCV & autotune set-up.
The beauty of this Woolrich set-up is that it sounds like once enough guys have used it(hopefully in conjunction with a dyno or PCV/autotune) and have compiled a good amount of maps in their "database", hopefully there will be some maps that match your bike's set-up and you can just download these existing maps and be pretty close. I suppose this all depends on how many guys with C14s actually use the WRT set-up and tune their bikes on dynos.
I'm all for letting someone else do all of the hard(and expensive) work!  :great: :beerchug:

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7837
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2014, 04:00:45 pm »
my 09 came with a PCV, I have some wb02's, maybe I'll just get the autotune and make it easy on myself. I used the WB02's when building my jet kits, it's the only way to get it "right" . steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2014, 04:10:04 pm »

You can probably get pretty close to a good a/f ratio with enough time and trial and error. Just keep tweaking and test riding and going by "seat-of-the-pants" feel. That really isn't optimal though- Dyno time is the best, or the PCV & autotune set-up.
The beauty of this Woolrich set-up is that it sounds like once enough guys have used it(hopefully in conjunction with a dyno or PCV/autotune) and have compiled a good amount of maps in their "database", hopefully there will be some maps that match your bike's set-up and you can just download these existing maps and be pretty close. I suppose this all depends on how many guys with C14s actually use the WRT set-up and tune their bikes on dynos.
I'm all for letting someone else do all of the hard(and expensive) work!  :great: :beerchug:

Yessir, I'm going to tune my ECU with the PC5 and Autotune...when I get to it. This isn't new...there are guys already doing this with good results. I think a lot of people won't go to those lengths (and don't need to either) and will be happy with an off-the-shelf-tune, but for those of us that like to tinker....well, we'll have some fun it all.
I may make a trip to the dyno, but I am still undecided yet.

I expect a C14 ECU map database will develop in time...once a few more people get into it. The same thing has been happening with Power Commander maps for years.

What I like about the ECU mapping is the simplicity of it. I can leave my secondary flies in place, which isn't really a deal breaker anyway, and when it comes time to sell my bike, I can upload the stock ECU map in a matter of minutes, and I'm done.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 04:16:28 pm by Rembrant »
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline gPink

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3196
  • MMVIII C XIV
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2014, 04:25:05 pm »
my 09 came with a PCV, I have some wb02's, maybe I'll just get the autotune and make it easy on myself. I used the WB02's when building my jet kits, it's the only way to get it "right" . steve

Dynojet also has an LCD unit that would be a big asset I think. I believe Fred had one when working up the maps with Guhl.
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Products/LCDUnit/powercommander_lcd.aspx

Offline Jeff Kerkow

  • Officer
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1377
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 7524
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2014, 04:58:31 pm »
I plan to tweak the secondaries in the normal mode and leave the maps alone for the ECO mode. That way I can get the better fuel mileage and I can still dust those traitor FJR owners that I ride with :)  I normally ride in ECO mode for most of the time anyway.
It's not a competition, It's a demonstration. "Rowan"
COG 7524 IBA 46513 GLMC 214
16 KTM 690R, 11 Concours 14, 07 Ninja 650 R

Offline JS_racer

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 679
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2014, 11:17:01 pm »
How does this compare to refreshing from guhl, I understand the tinkering aspect,  but is the driveability and reliable results better at this time for the guhl refresh?

Was super close to the flash and a cs one,  not sure what to do now.  I am a rider though,  60k miles in 3 years,  coverage till mid 2016. Can't be the only one weighing options.

Thanks much for the time.
Joel

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Woolrich DIY ECU Flashing
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2014, 11:33:02 pm »
How does this compare to refreshing from guhl, I understand the tinkering aspect,  but is the driveability and reliable results better at this time for the guhl refresh?

Was super close to the flash and a cs one,  not sure what to do now.  I am a rider though,  60k miles in 3 years,  coverage till mid 2016. Can't be the only one weighing options.

Thanks much for the time.
Joel

Joel, this WRT DIY kit is just the software for communicating with, and programming, the Concours-14 ECU. It does not come with any kind of pre-made performance 'tune' or map. You are responsible for that yourself, either by dyno tuning the bike, or tuning it with a wide-band O2 sensor, etc.

With the Guhl ECU reflash for the Concours-14, he will program a pre-made performance tune/map into your ECU that should closely match the intake and exhaust accessories you choose. It will be ready to go, and you can send it back to Guhl if you want to make any changes.

They're not really the same thing (to compare). Down the road, there should be some custom tuned ECU maps available that you could upload yourself, and modify and tune as you wish, but there are none available at this time. This kit is just new for the Concours-14.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 11:40:27 pm by Rembrant »
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.