Author Topic: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it  (Read 5056 times)

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Offline Stewart

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I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« on: August 04, 2011, 05:35:47 pm »
Actually my 2010 C14 ABS ECU was flashed.

Same Post with ZG/GTR Fanatics Forum http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3173.msg36860#msg36860

Completely stock - except for Risers, GPS, Techmount, Starcom1, E55, Phils Rack, Fuzebox, PR3's and me.

I only had time for a quick ride around the neighborhood running some errands and will post more feedback once I get out on the open road, and have a chance to ride 2 up.

But...I like it, like it alot as Dr Seuss would say.

I have the map with the Aggressive Secondary Fly opening and fuel mapping via the Dyno and adjusted with the input from Fred Harmon and his PCV /AutoTune flashed C14.

Before you ask, I don't have a before/after Dyno run.

Switching between the new Map and the Std ECO map on the fly gives you a pretty good idea of the difference, its very noticeable. the HWY roll on's in 4th/5th gear from 4k/5k RPM pulls stronger and smoother than the original map (compared to ECO Mode). You really feel the pull in the seat of the pants. How much better this is beyond a straight line run, I don't know, but so far I'm happy.

Idling through town is where I actually noticed a big difference. In 2nd/3rd gear around 2k-3.5k RPM, the power comes on instantly and just pulls from the get go in a very smooth linear manner. Switch back to ECO mode, and there is that delay you've come to expect...power isn't on tap instantly, it takes a moment to spool up and when the revs get there, you have go. Yes I know its not a long time, but compared to the new map is very noticeable and its on from the get go. I can see this being the biggest improvement for slow corners out on the open road and for idling through traffic 1-up or 2-up where having the torque down low really helps.

As for 1st gear...didn't get much room to play with cars around. But it felt good. I'm very curious given space if the front wheel will come up without popping the clutch. I can only dream. Note: I've never had the front wheel up as I think popping the clutch on this heavy bike is way too much risk for me.

Lastly...I think I heard an improved growl from the exhaust. It may just be in my head, but switching between ECO mode and back again, I noticed it.

Why did I choose the Flash? Well I heard so many good things about the Fly-ectomy, about adding a PCV about adding a Autotune (with O2 sensor)...but the impact to the Traction Control on my 2010 and the effort was not very appealing compared to pulling the ECU sending it off and getting it flashed. The business case for the Flash just made sense.

Would I recommend it? Yes for someone who hasn't pulled the fly's etc, definitely a worthy bang for buck exercise.

Why did I choose Guhl? Primarily because its my understanding they performed all the work locally from Reverse Engineer, Mapping to Flashing, versus sourcing from a 3rd party. Just a personal preference of mine, and has nothing to do with the quality or customer service of any other offering.
Stewart
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 08:07:59 pm »
It isn't your imagination, the bike does produce more growl with the new butterfly map, as you get a bit more intake noise. The same thing happens with you remove the butterflies. The fact that you hear more growl is confirmation that the secondary butterflies are opening sooner.
Fred H.


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Offline Stewart

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 02:40:27 am »
Quick update.

Rode for about 2 hours tonight while out for dinner 2-Up with the SO. Mixture of Hwy, backroads and city blocks.....I'm just loving this flash.

Extra low end torque for slow riding, and when its time to pass....giddy up!!! The SO even noticed the difference.

Now I just need some time in the twisties.
Stewart
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 07:52:47 pm »
Stewart, glad to hear you like it. It really does make a big difference, and it's nice to be able to switch the bike to Economy Mode and have it perform back like stock for riding in city traffic or just taking it easy. I also like that the traction control still works the same and is not affected and you can still run 89 octane gas since the timing hasn't been altered.
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Offline wally_games

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 08:22:52 pm »
Stewart, glad to hear you like it. It really does make a big difference, and it's nice to be able to switch the bike to Economy Mode and have it perform back like stock for riding in city traffic or just taking it easy. I also like that the traction control still works the same and is not affected and you can still run 89 octane gas since the timing hasn't been altered.

My '11 manual says to run 90 octane. Does a reflash change that?

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 09:27:58 pm »
My '11 manual says to run 90 octane. Does a reflash change that?

No change was made in the reflash that impacts the octane you use. Mid grade gas where I live is 89 octane and premium is 93.  I run mid grade cause it's just one point away from 90, and I don't have any issues (pinging) when I use it. Sometimes I'll also put half a tank of 93 octane on top of half a tank of 89. Since the timing was not altered in the reflash, I can continue to use 89 if I want to.
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Offline Stewart

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 01:29:45 am »
Just a quick update. Been on several rides with the wife and the bike is riding very nice.

Today I rode 250 miles on my own, I headed out before the sun came up and traffic hit the road. Hit some twisties ( best I can find nearby) and some long sweepers and I'm really loving the Guhl flash. On some familar roads where previously I'd be changing down to 4th, now I found 5th to be just fine for powering out of the medium to long sweepers, 3rd and 4th on the other hand was way too much fun on the tighter stuff.

This has to be my best farkle to date.
Stewart
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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 08:22:54 am »
Technically it's not a farkle. It's the OEM part. You just changed the settings to make it work. That's why it's not in the accessory section.   ;)

Offline Jagman

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 12:33:27 pm »
I hope to send mine to Guhl early this week after Fred H completes the Vance and Hines CS1 Map.  I'm going to do an overnight both ways:)

Offline slidebite

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 03:48:15 am »
I know nothing about flashing, so this might be a stupid question, but it sounds like you are able to retain the ECO mapping? That's pretty cool.

What is involved time wise and $$$ to do it?

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 09:27:45 pm »
I know nothing about flashing, so this might be a stupid question, but it sounds like you are able to retain the ECO mapping? That's pretty cool.

What is involved time wise and $$$ to do it?

Yes, the stock ECO mode in unaltered both in terms of the secondary butterfly opening rates and the fuel maps.

I believe the current price is $375. The ECU is usually turned around in one day, so how much time it takes really just depends on what shipping method you use.

By the way, Guhl Motors now has the fuel map adjustments for the CSOne exhaust pipe and can flash them direct into the ECU.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 09:31:11 pm by Fred_Harmon_TX »
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Offline Cboothe

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2011, 09:52:22 pm »
Sounds like I am even more unaware of how this procedure works this Guhl motor place seems back east and I am in utah what do I send to have flashed or do I need to make a week long trip to have it done, how do I pull the butterflies out is that something a dealer does or can i do that also thanks for my
questions

Offline MKorn

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2011, 10:57:21 pm »
And another question.  :)

  How does reflashing effect warranty?
2009 C14 ABS
2002 750 Nighthawk (sold)
2006 DRz 400s

Offline Stewart

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2011, 01:15:04 am »
And another question.  :)

  How does reflashing effect warranty?

This questions has been asked (by me) and answered several times (I think once by me), its like any other mod you make to large items on your bike,car,boat, etc. Search the site and you get a more indepth response/opinion from others.

As for the other question about procedure, you need to remove your ECU, located at the rear of the bike under the seat. There are two connectors that plug into it. Advice has been to disconnect your power or pull the fuse for the ECU before proceeding. Ship it off and when it comes back the bike will be ready to go.

Stewart
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 01:23:17 am »
how do I pull the butterflies out is that something a dealer does or can i do that also thanks for my
questions

The whole purpose of reflashing the ECU is to prevent you from having to go to the trouble of removing the secondary "butterflies". The reflash simply changes the map that drives them so they are open at a lower RPM and throttle setting. This also means your traction control won't be affected, since it relies on them as a control element to shut off air flow.

As for your warranty, I'd guess that the risk of this causing a problem is about the same as adding a Power Commander and removing the butterflies, since it essentially accomplishes the same thing. The only other risk might be if the ECU itself developed a problem, but I think that is pretty rare, and I've never actually heard of a failure of a C14 ECU.
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Offline skytzo

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 11:41:44 am »
I'm seeing all these references to ECO mode and traction control....do they have a reflash available for earlier '08 & '09 bikes?

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2011, 11:46:38 am »
I'm seeing all these references to ECO mode and traction control....do they have a reflash available for earlier '08 & '09 bikes?

Yes, the 2008/09 was the first one they did.
Fred H.


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Offline MKorn

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2011, 02:30:13 pm »
As for your warranty, I'd guess that the risk of this causing a problem is about the same as adding a Power Commander and removing the butterflies, since it essentially accomplishes the same thing. The only other risk might be if the ECU itself developed a problem, but I think that is pretty rare, and I've never actually heard of a failure of a C14 ECU.

Thank you Fred for responding.  The search came back with this thread only.
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Offline Jagman

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2011, 07:56:42 pm »
And another question.  :)

  How does reflashing effect warranty?

As for the other question about procedure, you need to remove your ECU, located at the rear of the bike under the seat. There are two connectors that plug into it. Advice has been to disconnect your power or pull the fuse for the ECU before proceeding. Ship it off and when it comes back the bike will be ready to go.

My ECU was pulled last night and overnighted to Don today.  I did NOT disconnect the battery or power first in any way though.  I thought I had read somewhere that that wasn't necessary.  Guess we'll find out when I get the ECU back this week and reinstall it:)

Offline armyguns

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2011, 08:02:30 pm »


My ECU was pulled last night and overnighted to Don today.  I did NOT disconnect the battery or power first in any way though.  I thought I had read somewhere that that wasn't necessary.  Guess we'll find out when I get the ECU back this week and reinstall it:)
[/quote]

It is NOT required that the battery be disconnected prior to pulling the ECU.  Don Guhl, Rob and I have all pulled the ECU from my bike numerous times while getting the mapping worked out.  The battery was NEVER disconnected, even once.
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Offline Jagman

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Re: I've been Flashed by Guhl Motors, and I like it
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2011, 08:19:38 pm »


My ECU was pulled last night and overnighted to Don today.  I did NOT disconnect the battery or power first in any way though.  I thought I had read somewhere that that wasn't necessary.  Guess we'll find out when I get the ECU back this week and reinstall it:)

It is NOT required that the battery be disconnected prior to pulling the ECU.  Don Guhl, Rob and I have all pulled the ECU from my bike numerous times while getting the mapping worked out.  The battery was NEVER disconnected, even once.
[/quote]

Good to know.  Thanks Bob.