Author Topic: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install  (Read 1487 times)

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Offline bikefix

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09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« on: January 17, 2019, 06:43:59 am »
Aloha from Hawaii.  New owner here, 2009 C14. 44k miles, recent valve adjustment, plugs, service. Running excellent, all stock bike.

Last night I installed a delkevic carbon fiber 18" slip on exhaust.  Easy install, baffle out, sounds amazing and rode for 10 miles and ran perfect.  I am so very happy with it.

This morning I start up the bike, sounds fine.  About 5 seconds later, it starts chugging at idle, and sounds rough.  Harder to rev up. Chuggish as low speed. I took for a ride and it sounds like its running on 2 cyl.  Major power loss, sounds choked up or something. I'm so sad right now.  It sounded and ran beautiful last night.

Bought the bike about 10 days ago. It was sitting for a couple months.  Had a full tank in it when I bought it.  Rode through that tank until fuel level low and then added seafoam and filled up with non ethanol fuel.  I'm near the end of that tank and the fuel low just started flashing and now the issues after the pipe install.

Thank you for your replies.  Wondering where I should start.  I miss the bike already and even more with that last 10 miles of riding.  The delkevic pipe sounds awesome with the baffle out.

Offline Bud

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2019, 10:50:41 am »
Welcome to COG!  Sorry to hear of your troubles.  I'd drain the tank, inspect and clean it.  Check the sock/filter on the pickup of the fuel pump.  Others have had some pretty nasty crud built up on that filter.  Don't sweat it too hard.  It's most likely something reasonably simple.  I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along later. 
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2019, 11:53:56 am »
Welcome to COG!  Sorry to hear of your troubles.  I'd drain the tank, inspect and clean it.  Check the sock/filter on the pickup of the fuel pump.  Others have had some pretty nasty crud built up on that filter.  Don't sweat it too hard.  It's most likely something reasonably simple.  I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along later.

This^^^.  It has nothing to do with the delkevic. Steve
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 09:28:01 pm »
along with Steve, I will say this most likely is not what you did, but what was never done...

every point you noted in your question, points to the fuel in the bike, over time, and the resultant issues.. classic case and well explained on your part, to see it. Thank you in advance for including all the things we would have asked..

You have a fuel issue, as noted when the "tank got low..." remove the tank, and completely dump, flush, and add a gallon of fresh fuel, from a NEW/CLEAN container, and see what occurs.. then, if it persists, continue onto this, may be about time to do a fuel filter replacement... no big issue...

 here ya go...
http://forum.cog-online.org/fuel-cooling-and-oil-systems-59/repacement-fuel-pumpfilter-combo/

if the fuel pump whines now, and when you disconnect the hose (via instructions in a FSM), and get a reasonable feeling the pump actually was working... do the pump remove/filter change... It's common. ANNNND you live on an Island...(I'm jealous..)..
when you drain your fuel, siphon some from the bottom of the vessel you drained it in... a clear glass jar, about 1 quart would do.. you may find some "spooge" in there, it should be an indicator... but a new filter is a good idea.
 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 09:35:40 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline cuda

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 09:59:40 pm »
Think the Seafoam cleaned out your tank :beerchug:
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Offline gpd323

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2019, 12:39:45 am »
Bad form for sure but I just spent 7 days in Maui.  What the others have said MOB knows his stuff.
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Offline bikefix

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2019, 09:23:05 am »
Thanks so much for the replies.  I will get the tank cleaned out and report back.  I hope I find some ugly sediment in there.

I was told the filters were replaced (air and fuel) a couple years ago (10k miles ago).  I will change again for good measure.

I live on Kauai, so touring on this bike is impossible (the road doesn't even go all the way around).  I am planning to use it as a commuter and race it here on the 1/4 mile strip.  I'm amazed how easy it is to ride.  So well balanced and gobs of power.  I'm 36 years old...i'm guessing one of the younger C14 owners?.  I like the creature comforts it has.  Kinda weird riding with a windshield, I'm used to crotch rockets and street fighters, but it's nice to ride a bike all day and not feel totally fatigued.

Aloha :great:

Offline cuda

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2019, 11:11:49 am »
Yeah, I never had a windshield let alone the total air pocket we get with this bike,

I never like all the air pressure against the helmet, would stop at a rest area and lie down because my neck was in a knot.

Happy Travels to you
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 02:53:14 pm by cuda »
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Offline G-Mazz

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2019, 04:26:31 am »
I also don't think your issue has anything to do with your exhaust work but I'm assuming you've checked all the exhaust connections to be sure they are tight from the header back.

I'd had a similar issue.  My bike ran great and as you described all of a sudden it felt like it was running on 2 or 3 cylinders.  Before spending a lot of time on fuel issues I'd suggest checking all your battery connections, both at the battery and especially the negative cable at the frame connection.  By checking them I mean take them off, clean them really well at both ends of each battery cable and the battery terminals then reinstall and make sure they are tight.

I found a crack and dirty terminal end on the negative cable at the frame caused all the issues.  Obviously it created a problem for the electronic ignition.  Never had a problem since.  I now make cleaning those connections part of my end of the year end maintenance procedures.

GOOD LUCK!  Let us know what you figure out.

Offline TireguyfromMA

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2019, 08:01:43 pm »
Was the NON Ethanol fuel you purchased leaded or unleaded?  Leaded fuel will foul up your O2 sensor and catalytic converter, which would cause your bike to crap.  I also buy NON Ethanol fuel for winter storage from my local airport, they call it MO Gas.  It's a 91 octane aviation fuel $5/gal that is a couple buck per gal cheaper than AV Gas $8/gal.  Not sure if you can buy gas anywhere that has still has lead in it but I verified with them that this does not.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2019, 09:10:01 pm »
you can't buy leaded fuel anywhere....and pump it directly into a gastank...

even race gas is non leaded... I buy unleaded 100% gasoline from a local outlet, they actually sell race fuel in pails/cans, it's ALL unleaded. (you have to place an order for leaded... and it takes forever to get...)

Only leaded "pumped" fuel today is AV100, it's dyed green, and expensive, and only available at airports... they likely will not sell it to a common person, with a gascan....

Sunoco still shows 9 variations of race Gas, that contain lead... price them...
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« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 09:36:50 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2019, 10:59:23 pm »
I'm like the others, it isn't related to the muffler.
G-Max has a good point. Check the battery leads.
   As in; take them loose, clean them and securely reinstall.
Probably gas or gas system, but 1 other thought.
   That gas you just added may be full of water...
    Check for water in the gas..

Ride safe, Ted

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Offline bikefix

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2019, 10:23:31 am »
hey guys, i heard from my mechanic, he used his gun and said bank 4 not firing properly. He checked the tank and said it was fine (gas and all), said it is a clogged fuel injector.  He cleaned it out and changed the plugs and I picked up a fuel pump and strainer recommended earlier.  He advised against changing the fuel pump (said OEM is much better) and to change just the strainer.  I told him to change the pump too, because I'm sure you guys recommend a good pump  ;)

 I'm waiting for an air filter, then he will button it all up and let me know.  I will keep the battery connections in mind, thank you.

Man I miss that beast. That Delkevic noise  ;D

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2019, 08:14:57 pm »
hey guys, i heard from my mechanic, he used his gun and said bank 4 not firing properly. He checked the tank and said it was fine (gas and all), said it is a clogged fuel injector.  He cleaned it out and changed the plugs and I picked up a fuel pump and strainer recommended earlier.  He advised against changing the fuel pump (said OEM is much better) and to change just the strainer.  I told him to change the pump too, because I'm sure you guys recommend a good pump  ;)

 I'm waiting for an air filter, then he will button it all up and let me know.  I will keep the battery connections in mind, thank you.

Man I miss that beast. That Delkevic noise  ;D

Interesting,
this is the first report of a clogged injector that I have ever heard, since the bike came out in 2007.... but I guess it's possible.Changing that fuel screen is certainly recommended at this point. I would have done that prior to messing with an injector in the firstplace, as most reports we have seen about fueling come from that specific screen clog. It really isn't necessary to replace the whole pump, unless it has seen excessive wear from being clogged tho. Having one on hand is worthy; as when you replace the screen/filter disassembly of the pump itself to accomplish that task, may show other issues. The pump I referred to was one  that another member here found online, to replace his with, and so far he hasn't had a return to say it wasn't good quality, they seem to be OK just looking at them... and for the price, well worth it. Besides that, who can really say without a doubt, that the OEM one is not the exact same pump, as I don't think Kaw made the pumps themselves, stuff like that it "outsourced" like many other things on the bike.

as you are new at this bike, I'll also share that Kaw just within the last year or so, finally revealed/made available a "kit" for replacing the filter sock, for the 10 years prior, you got socked in the wallet for a complete OEM pump assembly.... even tho the filters had been available prior to this bike ever being made...(the filter was used on thier ATV's).
If it wasn't for some daring individuals here to come up with a "service instruction" on how to disasemble and replace it back around '09, I don't think Kaw would have made "the kit", as they priced the Kit so high it's silly...they want the $$$.... (kit contains filter, o-rings, and some screws) for like $40+... oooppps   my bad, price went up...it's now $62 for the kit....
99999-0521
if you are careful, you never need the screws, or o-rings, and can get by with a $4 filter....
best of luck,
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 09:01:59 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline bikefix

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2019, 06:32:52 am »
Aloha and sorry for the late reply.  I finally have the bike back running well.  My mechanic first took the bike apart and tried to clean the injector.  Put it back together and still running rough.  So, he said I needed a new injector.  He ordered one from Kawasaki and replaced it and said it was running better, but still not right.  He said he had to change the #4 coil also.  While he had the bike apart, he put new air filter, new plugs, new fuel pump + strainer, changed the oil.  He cleaned the regulator? (hard to read bill).  He said he had to take the bike apart 3 times?  In the end, it was 7 hrs labor @ $90 per hour.  Injector was $56, Coil was $138 (ouch!), plugs were $24.  I supplied the fuel pump, air filter and oil/filter.  Bill came to $900.

The bike is running good now.  However, it feels like it's idling a bit high.  When cold, it idles at 1200, warm it idles at 1500.  This seems too high?  It idled around 1100 warm before the issues.

I'm wondering what you guys think of the repair.  MOB mentioned he has never heard of a clogged injector.  Maybe it was just the coil?  It seemed to be labor intensive to replace the injector.  Is the coil also difficult to replace?  My bill was much higher than I hoped.

It feels great to get it back and hear the Delkevic exhaust.  I find it quiet, even with the baffle out.

What should my MPG be commuting in Kauai? (no speed limits over 40 MPH)


Offline Bud

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2019, 09:56:11 am »
I think you paid for a lot of head scratching by the "tech".  Diagnosing is where the guys that know, separate themselves from bolt twisters.  I have had moments in the past where I just started replacing parts until I hit the right one.  My thoughts are that I might as well get some parts as opposed to paying someone big money to guess.  Last fall I took my 98 neon to a guy that I THOUGHT had enough experience to find the faulty idle air control valve.  Nope.  Thought it might be a couple of hundred dollars to get it fixed. Nope.  The bill turned out to be over $400! :-\  I feel your pain.  I HATE paying for someone to sit and scratch their head!  I won't be taking anything to him again!
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2019, 07:18:57 pm »
Idle speed adjustment is the knob on a cable that is located down by your your left foot.
But, I think for $900 the tech should make the adjustment for you.

Ted
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2019, 07:19:10 pm »
it's hard to find an honest, well versed mechanic, that follow basic "symptomatic" repair procedures, clearly the tech didn't.. all the "parts" he began tossing in because he refused to go in "steps", you ended up paying for, both in part cost, and installation $$$.
The air filter, spark plugs, had already been done..and didn't need to be re-replaced likely... The coil could have been "inspected/tested" instead of "replaced" willy nilly...
and even the fuel pump pressure, had he a clue, could have been measured right off...
When I see things like this I can only do the sigh, and "double face palm", I really do feel bad you had to deal with that fellow.
I don't suppose he gave you all the "old parts" he pulled off, (these types of techs always say "oh, I tossed them, they were all bad...") as I would have wanted those; the plugs were probably fine, most of us find they last far in excess of 50k or double that in miles, air filter usually at least 20k, in dusty areas, pulling the fuel pump apart and tossing in a new $4 filter and sticking it in a box as a spare would have been nice, and the stick coil... well, I bet that was fine also as was the injector... had he not done the plugs, filter, and fuel pump/filter I bet he would have said "it still isn't running right"...  and he would have been "exposed"...
This bike's onboard diagnostics, and that which can be seen using the KDS-3 software and diagnostic analyzer, about almost all the "issues" outlined would be simplified. and within an hour...
Again, I really do feel bad you went thru that torture and expense, hopefully you get many year and miles before it needs further work.
best of luck, and ride safe.

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Offline Gitbox

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2019, 08:36:08 pm »
Quote
it's hard to find an honest, well versed mechanic, that follow basic "symptomatic" repair procedures

Nigh impossible.
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Offline bikefix

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2019, 09:06:24 am »
Aloha, thanks so much for the replies, and thank you to connie_rider for the idle adjustment info.  Brought the idle down to 1200 and its running even smoother.

I have the old parts (coil, injector, fuel pump, strainer) but not the plugs.  The air filter was dirty, I saw it myself (surprised because PO told me it was changed).  He did check the fuel pressure which was good, but I told him to change the pump and strainer anyway.  So I have a good OEM pump as a spare.  The strainer was a bit dirty, but not too bad.  It still wasn't running right after changing fuel pump + strainer, and after changing injector, so I figure the coil was the culprit. 

In any case, its great to have it back.  First tank of fuel I got 114 miles from 4.4 gal (25.6 MPG), city driving.  This seems quite poor? I'm hoping for better mileage on the next tank.

It's hard to find competent, reliable mechanics on this island.  Maybe next time I'll fly one of you experts out here to Hawaii  ;)

Mahalo to all of you for helping me get back on the road. :great:


Offline connie_rider

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2019, 02:25:33 pm »
I'm not totally dissing your mechanic.
Sometimes, it's just difficult to figure out what the problem is.
It sounds like the mechanic did go in steps with you approving each step?
And I suspect, $900 (Particularly on the Island) is not that bad, for that much work and parts?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Bud

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2019, 08:37:38 pm »
I'm not totally dissing your mechanic.
Sometimes, it's just difficult to figure out what the problem is.
It sounds like the mechanic did go in steps with you approving each step?
And I suspect, $900 (Particularly on the Island) is not that bad, for that much work and parts?

Ride safe, Ted
I reckon Ted has a point about the cost of things out there.  He did get the old parts.  That's a plus.  All that part is over and done with anyway.  I'm wondering now about the fuel mileage.  25 might not be bad if you're flogging it like Harry working over Ted with the flog-o-matic  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: but if you're not, what's up with that?
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 09 C14 running rough shortly after delkevic install
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2019, 09:20:50 pm »

It's hard to find competent, reliable mechanics on this island.  Maybe next time I'll fly one of you experts out here to Hawaii ;)

Mahalo to all of you for helping me get back on the road. :great:

 :)) :))

That would work for me.... I work cheap.... :great:  a'ole pilikia

Pakalolo at my age would be a godsend... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :-\

and I always wanted to visit there and get a Tattoo...

Mahalo

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...