Author Topic: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??  (Read 5319 times)

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Offline H2

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12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« on: December 06, 2014, 12:27:11 am »
Guys...need some help here, I am really stumped but might be really easy for some of you.

I bought a tourmaster synergy 2.0 heated vest. Power cord goes from jacket to a fuse (fuse is in series with the cord) to the battery. Simple enough and it works.

But hell, i decided to get smart and take advantage of the 12 Volt outlet the C14 offers. So I bought a 12 V adapter that plugs into the jacket with the other end into the 12 V outlet. I started the bike to ensure the 12 V outlet was powered ( I also verified that it was). Jacket does not work.

So then i went into my car and testing the heated vest through the 12 V outlet in there. Still doesn't work.

I opened up the 12 V adapter and the fuse is still ok and all the solders are fine.

So I am concluding that for whatever reason, powering up the heated vest through the 12 V adapter doesn't work. It needs to go directly to the battery which makes no sense to me.

Isn't 12 V from the battery the same as 12 V from the outlet?

I am confused....what am I not seeing??  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Offline MikeJ

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 12:37:40 am »
Forgive the stupid question, but have you verified the jacket heater is working?
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Offline Scup

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 01:04:55 am »
 "Isn't 12 V from the battery the same as 12 V from the outlet?"

To answer your above question = YES

Josh

Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 01:31:04 am »
Mike: Yes ! Yeah....that was the first thing I did. Jackeat heater works for sure. I hooked it up directly to the battery and it worked. But when I hook it up to the 12 V outlet, jacket doesn't even power. Stuck it into the car 12 V outlet also, nothing.

The only difference between the jacket being hooked up directly to the battery or the 12 V outlet is the following:
1. With the battery hook up, there is a fuse in the line between the jacket and battery.
2. With the 12 V outlet, there is an adapter in the line between the jacket and 12 V outlet.

Maybe the adapter is "broken". I opened it up and the fuse looked ok and the solders are ok. But maybe what I will try is to open it up again and bypass the fuse and then stick it in the 12 V outlet and see what happens.

I am really confused as to why it doesn't work in the 12 V outlet.

Any thoughts?

Offline mattchewn

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2014, 01:39:22 am »
H2,
Your adapter is defective/broken!
12V is 12V is 12V.  Cigarette lighter/battery/DC generator all still 12V.  Now if one is not capable of producing the amperage necessary to power the device in question then it will either not work at all or will work at a reduced level of efficiency/output.
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2014, 02:11:32 am »
I suspect you're blowing the fuse on the circuit for the cig lighter adapter, as it isn't intended to provide that much current. You probably blew the one in your car too. Check your fuse boxes in your bike and your car.
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Offline Zorlac

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2014, 02:23:32 am »
I suspect you're blowing the fuse on the circuit for the cig lighter adapter, as it isn't intended to provide that much current. You probably blew the one in your car too. Check your fuse boxes in your bike and your car.
Either that or your inline fuse holder is a POS with an open somewhere. I've seen some real garbage fuse holders.  :-\
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Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 02:29:47 am »
Fred: I just checked....both car 12 V outlets still work (phew...). C14 stock 12 V outlet is no longer working. I will check fuse tomorrow. I would have thought that car 12 V outlets were the same as 12 V outlets on bikes, but maybe not. The fuse on the bike 12 V outlet  and heated vest are both 15 amps. No idea what it is in the car but it must be more.

Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2014, 02:37:35 am »
Zorlac: Possibly....I am going to bypass the fuse in my adapter tomorrow and hook it up directly to the battery. If the vest works, then the fuse is defective.

I just checked the vest specs. It draw a max of 6.4 amps. 15 amp fuses should not have blown unless there was a spike or something.

Offline Kman

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2014, 10:54:18 am »
Zorlac: Possibly....I am going to bypass the fuse in my adapter tomorrow and hook it up directly to the battery. If the vest works, then the fuse is defective.

I just checked the vest specs. It draw a max of 6.4 amps. 15 amp fuses should not have blown unless there was a spike or something.

Please note that on the 2012 models and newer, the accessory fuse is only 5 amps (on earlier models it was 10 amps) so if you have a newer model your vest could easily have blown the fuse which powers the accessory outlet as Fred noted.  I changed my 2012 5 amp accessory fuse to 10 amp without any issues, as have others on this forum.

Cheers
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Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2014, 11:52:52 am »
Yes, I'd check the accessory fuse under the seat, I imagine its popped.
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Offline Jim

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2014, 03:37:12 pm »
I've got the same vest and I've had it for years. I hook mine up to the existing Battery Tender pigtail and have had no problems, ever. You just need to buy an adapter and you're good to go.

Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2014, 03:49:33 pm »
Yes, I'd check the accessory fuse under the seat, I imagine its popped.

Yes sir it was indeed popped...5A fuse. I just put in a 10A one, outlet works normally now. I have an interesting update, will tell you about it in my subsequent reply to Jim.

Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2014, 04:02:30 pm »
I've got the same vest and I've had it for years. I hook mine up to the existing Battery Tender pigtail and have had no problems, ever. You just need to buy an adapter and you're good to go.

I hear you Jim...so check this out. I really am at a loss for words. Any ideas would be appreciated.

1. I have verified that the vest works by hooking the pigtail supplied with the jacket directly to the battery. Vest works perfectly.
2. I have verified that the adapter I bought also works by plugging the coax cable into the vest and then using alligator clips to connect from the adapter to the battery. Again, vest works perfectly.


Ok, so the moment of truth. I had installed a 12 V outlet on the C14 that hooks directly to the battery. It is always on so the ignition does not need to be in the "on" position for the outlet to be powered as in the case with the stock outlet.

So I plug the adapter from the vest into the 12 V outlet. Nothing, dead vest....now the fuse in the outlet line to the battery is 15A and it was not blown. I tested the outlet...works perfectly. I stick in the adapter from the vest again to make sure I am not going crazy....dead vest. I even turn the adpater in the socket and press it down further for the hell of it....still nothing.

I am really, really confused.

1. The vest works.
2. The adapter plugging into the vest works.
3. The outlet on the C14 works.
4. WHY DOESN'T THE VEST WORK??? GAAA!! THIS IS DRIVING ME NUTS!!!  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Guys, what am I not seeing???

Offline SO InnKeeper

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2014, 04:24:17 pm »
I'm with Matt on this.  The adaptor or the wiring you did with the adaptor is defective. Make sure you didn't reverse the wires going thru the adaptor. The Vest won't work if the polarity is backwards. Open it up and check for voltage at the leads going into the vest. Make sure you have 12v+ (Positive) on the main lead going to the vest.  I'll bet you don't.
Either the power leads are reversed or there is no connection on one (or both) of the leads. Check wire to wire right at the cord for the vest with it all plugged together. Then check lead to a good ground point on the bike. If the negative lead from the Vest has 12 volts on it at the vest the negative lead is Not connected.  Trace the power from the bike to the vest and back to the bike. Something is not connected.
Looking at fuses is not the best check. check the continuity across a fuse with an Ohm meter. I've seen hundreds of good looking fuses that didn't work. (Kinda like some of my 'ex' employees). 
The vest works, you are sure. The only thing different is the adaptor you installed.  Seems like that has to be the problem.
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Offline Zorlac

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2014, 05:41:16 pm »
I am really, really confused.
1. The vest works.
2. The adapter plugging into the vest works.
3. The outlet on the C14 works.
4. WHY DOESN'T THE VEST WORK??? GAAA!! THIS IS DRIVING ME NUTS!!!  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Guys, what am I not seeing???
I'm going with either the reverse polarity theory or you have a open/loose/corroded connection at the C14 outlet to your adapter plug.
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Offline JimBob

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2014, 06:29:45 pm »
I would venture the 12v socket on the bike is wired reversed, which means it will still show 12v to many devices (lights, meters, etc) that don't care about polarity. THe vest may care about polarity to drive some circuitry.

Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2014, 07:30:41 pm »
All GREAT suggestions guys....thank you very much. Let me check the theories out.

Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2014, 08:58:15 pm »
This is downright bizarre.

I checked the battery and the red cable is attached and I traced it up to the +'ve terminal of the 12 V socket. I also verified that the black cable is connected to ground and also traced it to the -'ve terminal of the socket. No corroded terminals anywhere.

I plug the vest into the socket, dead vest. I plug my 12 V USB adapter into the socket and it works. I plug in my battery tender and it is able to charge the battery. WTF??

Ok, so I remove the socket and reverse for the hell of it.

VEST WORKS!!! But now, USB adapter does not work. I plug in my battery tender and it does not work either.

The only thing I can think of is that the wiring in the 12 V adapter coax cable that connects from the vest to socket is reversed. Does make sense to you guys?

Offline Fred_Wa2gzw

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2014, 09:15:54 pm »
You need to check the voltage under load.  That means with the vest turned on and plugged in.  You need to check it as close to the vest connector as possible.  There is probably a significant voltage drop under load because of a poor connection.  No Load condition will read 12Volts, under Load voltage may drop significantly less than 12 Volts depending on resistance in Circuit.

Fred
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 12:48:04 am by Fred_Wa2gzw »

Offline gpd323

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2014, 10:19:28 pm »
I can power my Gerbing vest off the 12 cig socket, I can power my Samsung off the cig socket but my SENA cig plug does not work on the C14 cig socket. Strangest thing because the SENA cig works on all the other 12 volt cig chargers, just not the C14. ???
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Offline jwh20

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2014, 10:32:25 pm »
You need to check the voltage under load.  That means with the vest turned on and plugged in.  You need to check it as close to the vest connector as possible.  There is probably a significant voltage drop under load because of a poor connection.  No Load will read 12Volts, under Load voltage may drop significantly less than 12 Volts depending on resistance in Circuit.

Fred

I agree with this. Those cigarette lighter plugs are notoriously unreliable and often have trouble powering even a GPS unit.  They were designed for the purpose of heating up a cigarette lighter that would be pushed in and then pop out when hot.  To expect it to provide a reliable long-term electrical connection is unreasonable.  There are MUCH better ways of powering 12V devices.
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Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2014, 10:36:28 pm »
I can power my Gerbing vest off the 12 cig socket, I can power my Samsung off the cig socket but my SENA cig plug does not work on the C14 cig socket. Strangest thing because the SENA cig works on all the other 12 volt cig chargers, just not the C14. ???

A mystery for sure.... I am borrowing my friend's digital multimeter. Strangest thing, but obviously a polarity is reserved somewhere. Socket to battery is fine and vest directly to socket leads is fine. But then put the 12 V adapter in between the vest and socket and it doesn't work. If i reverse the socket polarities then the vest works but nothing else. So it must be the 12 V adapter. Anyway, going to check it out...

Thanks guys, for all the great advice and suggestions. It really sincerely helped ! :great: :great: :beerchug: :beerchug:

Offline H2

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2014, 02:20:06 am »
Confirmed, everything checks out with the voltmeter from vest to 12 V socket to battery. However, when I introduce the 12 V adapter in between the vest and 12 V socket, dead vest. If I reverse the polarities on the 12 V Adapter from vest to socket, it works.

Conclusion: Damn 12 V Adapter that I bought reversed the polarities. The guy doing this one in china must have been asleep on the job....

A big THANK YOU to everyone who helped. I was able to troubleshoot and get this thing fixed because of all of you.  :) :beerchug: :great:

Offline mattchewn

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Re: 12 Volts NOT 12 Volts??
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2014, 02:22:04 am »
H2,
So what did I win?    >:D

Matt
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