Author Topic: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check  (Read 7057 times)

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Offline mrclean

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2013, 12:58:35 pm »
I see that the valve clearance check being done approximately every 25k miles, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the book say every 16k miles? Mine is an 08 'thanks, Ken

Offline kilowatt

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2013, 01:22:25 pm »
If you have a good dealer and parts department. Some will trade you straight across for your old shims. When I do my valves, the parts guy gives me the there shim kit. I know this is unusual, and I'm sure bringing in a box of donuts every now and then helps too.

Those parts guys love donuts  ;D

Offline Rembrant

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2013, 01:35:03 pm »
If you have a good dealer and parts department. Some will trade you straight across for your old shims. When I do my valves, the parts guy gives me the there shim kit. I know this is unusual, and I'm sure bringing in a box of donuts every now and then helps too.

Those parts guys love donuts  ;D

Haha, nice. I don't have this relationship with my local dealer. I tried to get a shim from the local Kawasaki service department one time, and the manager said that he could not take a mechanic off of a paying job to spend the time looking for a shim for me. They have a no favor and nothing free policy...lol. Oh well. In any case, it's great that they do this for you.

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Offline BDF

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2013, 02:30:26 pm »
Yes, that is a question that goes back to the intro. of the bike in '07.

The service manual calls for a valve lash check on a C-14 every 16K miles IF the bike is a US or Canadian bike. The same manual calls for a lash check every 26K miles IF the bike is a non- US, non- Canadian bike. The valve train parts are identical so what's up with that? We do not know but there is plenty of speculation: I believe it is due to emissions regulations and how the bike was certified by the US EPA. But that may not be right so take it with a grain of salt.

There is nothing wrong with checking the lash at 15K miles, even in Europe. :-)  It just costs more to maintain the bike over its lifespan with the shorter intervals of valve lash checks. I went 25K and 50K on mine and then ignored it for the 75K check because the two checks on mine showed so little change. I will again check it at 93K miles. What I suggest is that if a person is concerned, or wants to stay w/in the guidelines of the service manual for warranty or whatever reason, go ahead and do the check at 15K. If you want to go to the other interval, I believe that is fine too but I do not warranty the bike and have nothing invested so it is up to each owner to do whatever he / she feels most comfortable with.

Brian

I see that the valve clearance check being done approximately every 25k miles, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the book say every 16k miles? Mine is an 08 'thanks, Ken
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Offline mrclean

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2013, 02:43:06 pm »
Thanks Brian that makes perfect sense (at least to me!) all things being equal I'll do mine at 25k.

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2013, 02:58:19 pm »
The service manual calls for a valve lash check on a C-14 every 16K miles IF the bike is a US or Canadian bike. The same manual calls for a lash check every 26K miles IF the bike is a non- US, non- Canadian bike. The valve train parts are identical so what's up with that? We do not know but there is plenty of speculation: I believe it is due to emissions regulations and how the bike was certified by the US EPA. But that may not be right so take it with a grain of salt.

No grain of salt needed. I asked Kawasaki Corporate this question about three or four years ago, and they told me that it was due to the way the EPA certifications are done in the US, and I posted this info back in 2010 on here. This came straight from the manufacturer.
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Offline mrclean

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2013, 04:09:03 pm »
Awesome! That's good research there, thank you!

Offline JeffP

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2013, 04:12:36 pm »
I see that the valve clearance check being done approximately every 25k miles, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the book say every 16k miles? Mine is an 08 'thanks, Ken

I'm doing mine now only because I didn't have the time at 15k. And on top of that, it was peak riding season....so I figured I'd wait until the weather cooled off. That way, I could take my sweet time, do the job right and not be in a rush. I've learned a lot so far and have a new appreciation for the engineering that goes into these machines.

I've been adjusting valves on my dirtbikes for the last several years. This job is no different, than that, just more valves to check... and clearly a LOT more steps involved in the diassembly process. In fact, the valve train in the Concourse is identical to my Honda CRF250R. Everything is bigger of course, and there are 3 more cylinders, but the components and the inspection process are the same.
 
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Offline flashback50

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2013, 10:34:51 pm »
The service manual calls for a valve lash check on a C-14 every 16K miles IF the bike is a US or Canadian bike. The same manual calls for a lash check every 26K miles IF the bike is a non- US, non- Canadian bike. The valve train parts are identical so what's up with that? We do not know but there is plenty of speculation: I believe it is due to emissions regulations and how the bike was certified by the US EPA. But that may not be right so take it with a grain of salt.

No grain of salt needed. I asked Kawasaki Corporate this question about three or four years ago, and they told me that it was due to the way the EPA certifications are done in the US, and I posted this info back in 2010 on here. This came straight from the manufacturer.

Does this mean that it is ok on the bike mechanically to wait 26k? I mean I really don't care about the EPA. Just wondering if it will hurt the bike to wait till 26k.

Offline BDF

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2013, 10:57:45 pm »
In my opinion, yes, it is fine to wait until 26K miles to do a valve lash check. But I am not Kawasaki and cannot override their service recommendations so that you can maintain the warranty. So the choice is up to the user: in the extremely unlikely but absolutely possible event that the engine is damaged internally is some way, especially anything involving the valve train, Kawasaki may ask for the service / maintenance records or at least ask for some assurance that the required maintenance was in fact done. And that is why no one can tell you it is OK or fine to go to the longer intervals in the recommended service, you must make that decision for yourself.

I did check the lash on my own bike at 25K and 50K because I thought 15K intervals were ridiculous and was more than willing to take the chance that either nothing will fail with the engine, or in the unlikely event it did, it would still be covered under warranty because I think the burden would be on Kawasaki to prove that whatever damage did occur was due to incorrect valve lash (extremely unlikely IMO). My bike now has 94K miles on it after a fine day of riding and dining with COG friends (we dined, the bike just waited out in the parking lot forlornly) and I will check the valve lash w/in the next couple of months. And my bike is still under warranty, the second three- year extended warranty after the original three- year warranty was up; the bike is an '08 but was purchased in July 2007 so is about 6 1/2 years old.

Brian

Does this mean that it is ok on the bike mechanically to wait 26k? I mean I really don't care about the EPA. Just wondering if it will hurt the bike to wait till 26k.
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Offline JeffP

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2013, 01:22:31 pm »
Just out of curiosity, for you guys with the extended warranties (something I wish I had, but since I am not the original owner and the bike was out of warranty when I bought it I am out of luck), are you allowed by Mama K to wrench on your own bike? Or do you have to take to a dealer for every little thing? Clearly a valvle lash check is not a "little thing", but what about things like oil changes and other periodic maintenance items?

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Offline BDF

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2013, 01:34:49 pm »
The warranty, or extended warranty, remains in force no matter who does the maintenance on the bike, and it does not matter how large or small the maintenance may have been. So no, we do not have to have a dealer do any maintenance to keep the warranty, or extended warranty, in force.

Beyond that, usually there is some reason applied; the entire warranty is not 'null and void' even if some maintenance was not done or could not be proven. For example, if you had a bike that had 40K miles on it and the front rotors warped, it really does not make any difference if the valve lash was ever checked or not. Sure I guess a dealer or Kawasaki <could> challange warrantying the brake rotors because of it but I do not think anything like that would actually work.

The only time there would be a question would be in something happened that could be a result of maintenance not done or not done correctly. For example, if a C-14 had a burned valve at, say, 90K miles, the dealer would probably ask to see records of the valve lash checks being done every 15K miles along the way. If there were no records and the owner claimed to do the work himself / herself, then receipts from buying shims or valve cover seals would do nicely I think. Now in my own case, I did check the lash but did not replace the seal nor did the engine need any shims so there is no record or paperwork of the work being done. Kawasaki may challenge repairing a burned valve under such circumstances but in the end I think the work would still be covered under warranty.

Brian

Just out of curiosity, for you guys with the extended warranties (something I wish I had, but since I am not the original owner and the bike was out of warranty when I bought it I am out of luck), are you allowed by Mama K to wrench on your own bike? Or do you have to take to a dealer for every little thing? Clearly a valvle lash check is not a "little thing", but what about things like oil changes and other periodic maintenance items?
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Offline stevewfl

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2013, 08:49:42 pm »
I did mine at 26,000, 52,000, and NEVER again.

Especially after meeting the gentleman who has over 100K on his and never checked them.  I'm at 81,000 now and nothing has happened.  I mean...what's worse that could happen

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Offline TFly

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2014, 02:31:47 pm »
Normal? ::) -dont know.

My question is this...is this normal for this bike?

 I just(3/1) had mine done with 15000 mile service. Tech reported ALL 8 exhaust and #3 intake were tight.  He changed 10 shims. When I question if number out of spec was normal his reply was "Most were out of spec by only 0.001 but out of spec and need adjustment". I have heard stories of service depts. doing No touch valve checks. I am fortunate to have a dealer/service dept(Razee Motorcycle Center) I trust to do the job right. 
:)

I have an 08 with about 23,000 miles on it. After checking all the clearances it looks like EVERY single valve needs to be adjusted.  :(  Most are out of spec by only 0.001". Cylinder #1 is the worst with a couple out by 0.002.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 02:35:40 pm by TFly, Reason: missing info »
Todd Flynn
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2014, 08:04:51 pm »
Feeler gauges in the competent hands of an honest mechanic or the owner of the motorcycle don't lie. The gauge either fits or or it doesn't. If the the clearance is not to specification, then make the adjustment so that it is correct.  Glad it worked out for you.  :great:
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Offline BDF

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2014, 08:11:46 pm »
Do you happen to know who got the job on your bike? I think Brian has been doing them on C-14s- he is the really tall, thin guy about 45 or so. Nice guy, very skilled and professional. But there is another gentleman there who has been all the way into the gearbox on a C-14 as well.

Brian

Normal? ::) -dont know.

 I just(3/1) had mine done with 15000 mile service. Tech reported ALL 8 exhaust and #3 intake were tight.  He changed 10 shims. When I question if number out of spec was normal his reply was "Most were out of spec by only 0.001 but out of spec and need adjustment". I have heard stories of service depts. doing No touch valve checks. I am fortunate to have a dealer/service dept(Razee Motorcycle Center) I trust to do the job right. 
:)

I have an 08 with about 23,000 miles on it. After checking all the clearances it looks like EVERY single valve needs to be adjusted.  :(  Most are out of spec by only 0.001". Cylinder #1 is the worst with a couple out by 0.002.
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Offline BDF

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2014, 08:14:43 pm »
True, it is 100% a 'Go / No Go' situation. Of course there is room to misread the gauge, use the wrong one, etc. but really, the actual measurement of the gap is just a matter of getting on the back side of the cam lobe and just jamming gauges in the gap until one fits :-)

Brian

Feeler gauges in the competent hands of an honest mechanic or the owner of the motorcycle don't lie. The gauge either fits or or it doesn't. If the the clearance is not to specification, then make the adjustment so that it is correct.  Glad it worked out for you.  :great:
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Offline TFly

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2014, 08:32:00 pm »
Do you happen to know who got the job on your bike? I think Brian has been doing them on C-14s- he is the really tall, thin guy about 45 or so. Nice guy, very skilled and professional. But there is another gentleman there who has been all the way into the gearbox on a C-14 as well.

Brian

I had been talking to Russell did not catch the techs name :-[...HR are his initials(dark hair with mustache)
Todd Flynn
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Offline BDF

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2014, 11:30:33 pm »
That does not ring any bells. But no matter, just like you I am very confident that whatever is done by that dealer is done well.

Brian


I had been talking to Russell did not catch the techs name :-[...HR are his initials(dark hair with mustache)
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Offline Bill

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2014, 04:53:28 am »
Amsoil has assembly lube now in the product line. Just sayin :nananana:
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Offline laker9142

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Re: 1/2 Way Through First Valve Clearance Check
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2014, 10:29:13 pm »
I just checked mine for the 2nd time. 1st time was at 17000 and needed many adjustments. 2nd time is at 80000 with virtually NO change! And I do run it pretty hard, but not abusive. I just joined the "never again" group. Also I found that either the valve cover or cam sensor has been leaking oil for a long time. Funny that it never smoked or smelled or dripped. It just caked on with plenty of sand for binder.