Author Topic: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon  (Read 2944 times)

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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« on: October 13, 2010, 05:44:25 pm »
You can thank a politician for this.

10% ethanol didn't mess up our vehicles enough, so now they are raising it to 15%.

FYI, check your owners manuals on your bikes and cars. Many manufactures will VOID your warranty if you use ethanol in any concentration higher than 10%.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Said-to-Allow-Rise-in-bloomberg-701169662.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=7&asset=&ccode=
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 05:57:54 pm »
"You want that on the rocks?"
"Make it a double, neat with a wedgie."

Gas stations will have to have liquor licenses and the public once again finds more alky in their diet and something uncomfy out back.
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badinc1

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 08:47:46 pm »
I don't understand why we are still using Ethanol ?
It's not saving any gas, it lowers your gas mileage, and isn't lowering the price of gasoline any.
It screws up any old vehicles that doesn't have fuel injection.
Motorcycles, snowmobiles, lawnmowers, boats, antique cars, hot rods, are all getting messed-up with this stuff.
I know of my local carb repair shop, and he has never been so busy since this ethanol has been added to gasoline.
He tells me that it not only eats up any rubber in the carbs, but plastic and aluminum.
I know this as true, as I have two hot rods that I can't get more than 3 weeks out of the 10% ethanol gas before I have to take off my carbs and clean them out. The ethanol fills them up with a white color corrision that looks like battery corrision and a gas color gum.
It cloggs all the jets and any holes inside the carbs.
I've been adding StarTron gas additive, which has somewhat helped, more so than the Stabile.
This enthanol gasoline should be outlawed. How can they or our Govt. approve something that screws-up so many gasoline powered engines ?
Bobby.

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2010, 08:53:33 pm »
I don't understand why we are still using Ethanol ?


Because of the corn farmers and ethanol industry that lobby Washington and pay politicians to vote for it.
Fred H.


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badinc1

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 08:56:14 pm »
The thing is Fred, there is more of "us" than the Corn farmers and Politicians.
If this was put to a National vote, there wouldn't be any Ethanol gasoline.
Bobby.

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 09:31:53 pm »
The thing is Fred, there is more of "us" than the Corn farmers and Politicians.
If this was put to a National vote, there wouldn't be any Ethanol gasoline.
Bobby.

It isn't about what the majority of people want or whats best for the country. It's all about who puts the most money in the politicians pockets. Our Government is for sale to the highest bidder, and the farmers lobby and ethanol industry have very deep pockets. The average Joe Citizen doesn't stand a chance.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 09:34:34 pm by Fred H. »
Fred H.


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badinc1

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 10:00:47 pm »
So true Fred.
I look at all the politian ads on tv, and there isn't one good one to vote for. They're all bad ! 
Bobby.

Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 03:00:01 pm »
The thing is Fred, there is more of "us" than the Corn farmers and Politicians.
If this was put to a National vote, there wouldn't be any Ethanol gasoline.
Bobby.

It isn't about what the majority of people want or whats best for the country. It's all about who puts the most money in the politicians pockets. Our Government is for sale to the highest bidder, and the farmers lobby and ethanol industry have very deep pockets. The average Joe Citizen doesn't stand a chance.


Well said Fred!

Offline John

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 12:49:54 am »
Well, I still have a choice and that is where I'll be buying gas for the bikes and mowers from now on, no ethanol.  Maybe I need to send a bill to congress for the weed eaters and mowers that stuff has screwed up.  I think if we all did they at least would know the problems with the stuff.

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Offline Gerry B

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 12:52:23 am »
Serious questions:
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the amount of Ethanol in a given amount ? 
Can it be diluted? 
Separated out? I'm just looking for opportunities to work around it. 
Gerry Barnett 
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badinc1

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2010, 11:29:27 am »
‎50% BTU content compared to gasoline makes it pretty much a joke without radical engine mods like super high compression ratios, to produce the same output of travel or work requires twice the amount of ethanol as gasoline, pretty stupid, making that fuel source compete with a food source is even more stupid.

So let me do the math. 10% can cause as much as 30% drop in MPG. so you burn cleaner and you get X amount less pollution per gallon but you consume 30% more fuel. Seems like that is increase in the amount of pollution per mile. Sounds like fuzzy math.

There is 251 million cars on the road in the U.S. vs maybe 38 million cars in Brazil where this is popular.
Plus you still haven't counted all the lawnmowers, snowblowers, motorcycles, snowmobiles, boats, antique cars, hot rods, leaf blowers, chainsaws, farm tractors, and so on the wasn't designed to run on ethanol gasoline here in the U.S..
This crap really raises havoc with these types of engines that isn't designed to run on ethanol.
I have a local carb rebuilding repair shop, and he has been so busy ever since ethanol has been added to gasoline rebuilding carbs, as the ethanol is just eatting them up. Ethanol eats into aluminum, rubber and plastic. I find that my carbs after having ethanol treated gasoline in them after 3 weeks has a white corrosion that looks like battery corrosion in them along with a gas color gum, that blocks up all the ports and jets.
There is more stuff out there that isn't designed to run on ethanol than stuff that is.
My hot rods can only run on ethanol treated gasoline for 2 weeks. After that, it's start hard but won't idle. 3 weeks after using the ethanol treated gasoline, it won't even start, and I have to rebuild the carbs.
Nice stuff !
Bobby.

Offline Tactical_Mik

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 12:09:38 pm »
NOOOO!

Horrible news.  In Kansas I haven't found any real fuel stations.  Of course I believe Ks is a "mandatory" state.

Wonder how much damage this will do to our beloved bikes.
Lonnie 

badinc1

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2010, 09:12:23 pm »
Read this :  http://americanmotorcyclist.com/news/story.asp?id=2311

Federal action to allow more ethanol in gasoline could damage motorcycles

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted October 15, 2010    Email   Print


The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has agreed to allow the ethanol portion of blended gasoline to be increased from the current 10 percent to 15 percent for certain vehicles, which could pose a danger for motorcycles.

On Oct. 13, the EPA announced approval of a waiver for E15. Under the decision, E15 is now approved for use in model year 2007 and newer cars and light trucks. It isn't approved for use in any other gasoline-fueled engines. To see the EPA news release, go to http://tinyurl.com/US-EPA-E15.

"The AMA supports the use of cleaner-burning fuels, but we are concerned that gasoline containing more than 10 percent ethanol could result in premature engine damage or failure while a motorcycle is being ridden," said Imre Szauter, AMA government affairs manager. "We're also concerned about any degradation in performance, fuel economy and rideability that may result from the long-term use of blended fuels with greater than 10 percent ethanol."

The EPA, in allowing more ethanol in gas, specifically said that its decision covers model year 2007 and newer cars and light trucks, and no other vehicles at this time, including motorcycles.

"Motorcycle manufacturers only certify their machines to run on gasoline or a blend with up to 10 percent ethanol, which is known as E10," Szauter said. "So using the 15 percent blend in a motorcycle could void the bike's warranty."

Growth Energy, an ethanol lobbying group, asked the EPA in March 2009 to allow gasoline to contain up to 15 percent ethanol. It's part of an effort to meet a congressional mandate to increase to 36 billion gallons the amount of renewable fuel available in the United States by 2022. Ethanol, made from corn and other crops, is considered a renewable fuel.

For more than three years the AMA has been on the record opposing increases in the ethanol level allowed in gasoline until studies show that an increase won't damage motorcycle or all-terrain vehicle (ATV) engines, and won't make motorcycles emit more nitrogen oxides than are allowed by the EPA.

"The message we want to deliver today is that once E15 gas is offered for sale, there are a variety of reasons not to put it in your motorcycle or ATV gas tank," Szauter said. "In fact, the EPA even says you aren't allowed to put E15 in your bike."

The EPA said a decision on the use of E15 in model year 2001 to 2006 vehicles will be made after new test results are received. The EPA is also proposing E15 pump labeling requirements so that consumers don't mistakenly put E15 in the wrong vehicles.

Bob Greco, spokesman for the American Petroleum Institute, told The Wall Street Journal that by approving E15 without full testing, the EPA is putting "politics before science."

"You're going to have fuels in the marketplace that could damage engines and void warranties," Greco told the newspaper.

The AMA is a member of AllSAFE, the Alliance for a Safe Alternative Fuels Environment, a group formed to ensure that fuels containing ethanol are promoted in a thoughtful manner. AllSAFE is made up of associations that represent consumer and commercial users of ethanol blends, manufacturers of boats, vehicles, engines and equipment, and retailers who sell gasoline and ethanol-fuel blends.

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2010, 02:58:34 pm »
‎50% BTU content compared to gasoline makes it pretty much a joke without radical engine mods like super high compression ratios, to produce the same output of travel or work requires twice the amount of ethanol as gasoline, pretty stupid, making that fuel source compete with a food source is even more stupid.
Actually that's not quite correct.  Yes, the BTU per pound of fuel is much lower, but the AFRs required to make it run well are doubled.  So what happens is that at a burnable mixture, it actually produces MORE power than gasoline with no mods other than appropriate mixture control.  The BAD news is that you burn twice as much.

Now, what you make it out of can be a lot of different things.  It doesn't HAVE to compete with food sources... at least not human ones.  Of course what is actually being done is using corn for the most part and by mixing it with gasoline they don;t get the benefits alkys have to offer.  Shame that.
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badinc1

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2010, 12:28:27 am »
NASCAR.COM - NASCAR moving to ethanol fuel mix for '11 - Oct 16, 2010
http://www.nascar.com/2010/news/business...
NASCAR announced Saturday it will race with E15 fuel in its three national touring series in 2011. Sunoco Green E15 is a 15-percent ethanol blend using American-made ethanol from corn grown by American farmers.

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- NASCAR announced Saturday it will race with E15 fuel in its three national touring series in 2011. Sunoco Green E15 is a 15-percent ethanol blend using American-made ethanol from corn grown by American farmers.

"NASCAR is committed to being an environmental leader, and the sport has taken significant steps over the years toward conservation by introducing measurable, best-in-class initiatives in recycling, alternative energy, and carbon mitigation," said Brian France, chairman and CEO of NASCAR.

"The transition to Sunoco Green E15 takes our long-term sustainability strategy to the next level. Sunoco Green E15 is good for racing, good for the environment and good for America. While fueling the same close, door-to-door racing that thrills our fans, American ethanol creates jobs in the United States, helps foster energy independence, and continues the greening of our sport."

"Since 2004, Sunoco has produced and delivered to NASCAR the world's best racing fuel flawlessly in a challenging, high-stakes environment," said Bob Owens, senior vice president of Sunoco. "We're proud to be part of NASCAR's dedication to conservation with Sunoco Green E15 -- the ultimate high-test ethanol fuel blend. In our six years as official fuel partner, Sunoco has changed with the times by helping NASCAR transition to unleaded fuel, and now we are eager to produce for the sport a high-performance ethanol blend."

Sunoco Green E15 will be blended at Sunoco's fuel facility in Marcus Hook, Pa., which provides high-performance race fuel to NASCAR teams at no cost to them. The American-grown and American-made corn ethanol will come in part from Sunoco's new ethanol plant in Fulton, N.Y. The new fuel will be pumped directly from tankers at the track, rather than from on-site underground storage tanks.

NASCAR team engine builders have been testing the Sunoco Green E15 for several months, and reports have been very positive. In fact, many have reported achieving more horsepower with Sunoco Green E15.

"With Sunoco Green E15, we are leading by example, showing that this renewable fuel -- which reduces greenhouse gas emissions -- works in the most demanding racing environment in the world," said Dr. Mike Lynch, managing director for Green Innovation for NASCAR. "NASCAR and Sunoco look forward to highlighting the efforts of the whole racing community to transition to Sunoco Green E15 in time for the Daytona 500 -- from its manufacture all the way to the race track."

This is not good for us that have engines that are not designed to run on Ethanol, which is the majority of what's out there.
Looks like rough times ahead for us, especially when somebody as BIG as NASCAR decides to run this stuff.
Bobby.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 12:35:48 am by badinc1 »

Offline oldsawfiler

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2010, 02:46:03 am »
NASCAR should switch to batterys and turn right instead of left. ::)
Well...even if you fall on your face you're still moving forward.

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Offline mff

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Re: 15% Ethanol coming to a gas station near you soon
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2010, 10:37:19 am »