Author Topic: 15K Valves: How bad were they?  (Read 4849 times)

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Offline C1xRider

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15K Valves: How bad were they?
« on: July 06, 2011, 01:49:55 pm »
I'm coming up on 15K, and was curious how much valve adjustment people were actually needing when they got there.

There are really 2 polls in one here.  Everyone should select the first or second choice, then one of 3, 4, or 5.  If you took it to the dealer and didn't care or ask, then option 6 is for you.

If you haven't done your first valve adjust yet, then be patient and your time will come!   ;D
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Offline Big Poppa

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 07:17:13 pm »
Just got my 2011 back last week from it's 15k service and the dealer said all valves were within spec.

We'll see how they're holding up at 30l.  :motonoises:
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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2011, 07:22:13 pm »
According to the dealer, they were all in spec. That is if they actually did them!  :))

Offline C1xRider

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 12:10:30 am »
Just got my 2011 back last week from it's 15k service and the dealer said all valves were within spec.

We'll see how they're holding up at 30l.  :motonoises:

Wow, 15K on your 2011 already?  You must live on that thing!   ;D
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Offline Just Cliff

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2011, 12:33:17 am »
  I didn't get my o8 done till 39,500 mi. & was told they were all in spec, all you can do is hope they actually did it. Reason for waiting was a few dealers told me I was wasting my money & they never need it, so naturally I didn't want to take to one of them. Not to metion they even claimed not to have a shim kit, even talked to Kawasaki about dealers discouraging maintenance & they didn't even seem to care. There reply was, we don't control them  there independent  dealers! At any rate now at 45,000 mi. all seems okay. Anybody else run into this?

Cliff
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Offline C1xRider

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 05:22:14 pm »
  I didn't get my o8 done till 39,500 mi. & was told they were all in spec, all you can do is hope they actually did it. Reason for waiting was a few dealers told me I was wasting my money & they never need it, so naturally I didn't want to take to one of them. Not to metion they even claimed not to have a shim kit, even talked to Kawasaki about dealers discouraging maintenance & they didn't even seem to care. There reply was, we don't control them  there independent  dealers! At any rate now at 45,000 mi. all seems okay. Anybody else run into this?

Cliff

Good info guys, thanks!  Keep it coming!

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Offline Big Poppa

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 07:20:53 pm »
Wow, 15K on your 2011 already?  You must live on that thing!   ;D

LOL...yeah. I use my C14 as my main transportation. My daily commute is 90 miles round trip so I average close to 2k per month. Added on top of that was my trip from California to South Carolina and a couple of NorCal to SoCal trips. I figure I'll easily break 30k before the year is out. Good thing the warranty is unlimited mileage.  ;D

According to the dealer, they were all in spec. That is if they actually did them!

I understand the skepticism but in the case of this dealer, I completely trust their service department since they still have a couple of the mechanics there that worked on bikes I bought from them back in 1995-1999. I got to know them real well and I trust them enough to believe that they check/fix/worked on whatever they say they did.

As a matter of fact, it was only because those mechanics were still there that I bought the bike from them, otherwise I would have bought my C14 from the dealer closer to where I live.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2011, 06:19:26 pm »
  I didn't get my o8 done till 39,500 mi. & was told they were all in spec, all you can do is hope they actually did it. Reason for waiting was a few dealers told me I was wasting my money & they never need it, so naturally I didn't want to take to one of them. Not to metion they even claimed not to have a shim kit, even talked to Kawasaki about dealers discouraging maintenance & they didn't even seem to care. There reply was, we don't control them  there independent  dealers! At any rate now at 45,000 mi. all seems okay. Anybody else run into this?

Cliff


Good info guys, thanks!  Keep it coming!


good info?
well, I would not suggest following the path of those not servicing the bike within the expected intervals.
I saw you posted this same querry on the "other" forum, so I'll add my $0.02 here also, to keep things in perspective, and hopefully the current Tech Editor will appear and re-inforce the need for being diligent.
I checked at 15k, and did the adjust at 20k... I have a hard time justifying someone forgoing this, as i don't believe these bikes are "fine" when inspected.

here's my addition:
I'll repeat this again, as I have a few times already, and I hope this sinks in for those still awaiting the time when they do this adjust....

While you are pulling the buckets to see what shims are in each position the first go around, and have a map of the clearances in hand, as you Mic' each shim (just to be sure) MIC THE BUCKET ALSO AND RECORD THOSE READINGS IN THE MAP
then, when you realize you need "a shim or two" and can't get one, you can go back thru your map, and see which buckets you can swap ALSO to get closer, or even be able to get a correct stackup in the trouble spots..... the stackup on the bucket and shim combo will allow a much more diverse set of swaps using the existing parts you have, and many times you will actually reduce the shim purchases substantially. I found variations in Bucket dimensions of .002", which is very substantial...in reality it is the difference in the full range of the spec allowable/noted between tight and loose...I set ALL mine to the top end limit, and there should be no fear in doing this. It's logical, and allows the most duration between "torture" sessions.

going thru this job, with the time and care only you can do (as the shops will not take the time to do this) gives the options of documenting every shim and bucket dimension, subsequent inspections down the road only require checking the clearance that exists, and running your calculations again, with all that data recorded, to see exactly which shims you will need to obtain, and allow bucket/cup swaps to reduce the efforts also.....

see the chart i made on mine, and note the cup/bucket movements also (and the measurments on them)


http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2896805850015463693biYSzi

you took the time to pull it apart, take the time to measure EVERYTHING. 8)

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Offline C1xRider

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2011, 01:02:56 am »
good info?
well, I would not suggest following the path of those not servicing the bike within the expected intervals.
I saw you posted this same querry on the "other" forum, so I'll add my $0.02 here also, to keep things in perspective, and hopefully the current Tech Editor will appear and re-inforce the need for being diligent.
I checked at 15k, and did the adjust at 20k... I have a hard time justifying someone forgoing this, as i don't believe these bikes are "fine" when inspected.

here's my addition:
I'll repeat this again, as I have a few times already, and I hope this sinks in for those still awaiting the time when they do this adjust....

While you are pulling the buckets to see what shims are in each position the first go around, and have a map of the clearances in hand, as you Mic' each shim (just to be sure) MIC THE BUCKET ALSO AND RECORD THOSE READINGS IN THE MAP
then, when you realize you need "a shim or two" and can't get one, you can go back thru your map, and see which buckets you can swap ALSO to get closer, or even be able to get a correct stackup in the trouble spots..... the stackup on the bucket and shim combo will allow a much more diverse set of swaps using the existing parts you have, and many times you will actually reduce the shim purchases substantially. I found variations in Bucket dimensions of .002", which is very substantial...in reality it is the difference in the full range of the spec allowable/noted between tight and loose...I set ALL mine to the top end limit, and there should be no fear in doing this. It's logical, and allows the most duration between "torture" sessions.

going thru this job, with the time and care only you can do (as the shops will not take the time to do this) gives the options of documenting every shim and bucket dimension, subsequent inspections down the road only require checking the clearance that exists, and running your calculations again, with all that data recorded, to see exactly which shims you will need to obtain, and allow bucket/cup swaps to reduce the efforts also.....

see the chart i made on mine, and note the cup/bucket movements also (and the measurments on them)


http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2896805850015463693biYSzi

you took the time to pull it apart, take the time to measure EVERYTHING. 8)


Good info is what I call it when there was none, then others offer their experiences.

As for you, Excellent feedback MOB.  I was not aware the buckets would vary by so much.  No one has mentioned it so far, and I certainly did not expect it.  Given how well I know myself, I probably would have measured a few of them to see how close they were to each other once they were out though.

I'm planning on making a map (spreadsheet actually), when I tear it apart.  Since we've been waiting for decent riding weather for months (the prognosticators kept saying it was just a few days away), and the bike was at 12,500 then, I didn't really plan on the 15K checkup for awhile.  Of course now that it's imminent, who wants to waste a precious sunny beautiful day or even week looking at a disassembled bike?

You checked yours at 15K, and did the adjust at 20K?  I was considering something similar, open it up to make the 'sanity check' clearance measurements, and if nothing is out of spec, postpone the actual tear it apart and map it till later.  That's why I started the poll, to see how many folks found theirs out of spec at the first 15K inspection.
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Offline C1xRider

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2011, 04:42:39 pm »
An update to this thread, I noticed in the Periodic Maintenance section of the 2010 FSM (page 2-3), that the 15,000 mile (24,000KM) Valve Clearance Inspect interval is only for the US and CA models.  For all other countries, the interval is 26,000 miles (42,000KM).

I bet this 15K number is purely dictated by emissions (keeping the engine tuned for lowest emissions), and not really required for mechanical reasons.  I'm sure other countries don't have different valves, seats, cams, shims, or heads than the US and CA motors.  Why else would they do this?

Any of the old experienced sages have words of wisdom on this difference?
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2011, 05:50:17 pm »
Here is the map I made of my 08 at around 13K miles. I think I changed/swapped all but 1 shim. I mic'ed all the shiims, both old and new, and they were all nearly perfect.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 05:52:23 pm by Fred_Harmon_TX »
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2011, 05:54:39 pm »
An update to this thread, I noticed in the Periodic Maintenance section of the 2010 FSM (page 2-3), that the 15,000 mile (24,000KM) Valve Clearance Inspect interval is only for the US and CA models.  For all other countries, the interval is 26,000 miles (42,000KM).

I bet this 15K number is purely dictated by emissions (keeping the engine tuned for lowest emissions), and not really required for mechanical reasons.  I'm sure other countries don't have different valves, seats, cams, shims, or heads than the US and CA motors.  Why else would they do this?

Any of the old experienced sages have words of wisdom on this difference?

I have spoken to Kawasaki about this, and they informed me that the valve train was designed to the longer European (24K mile) interval, but that the EPA testing criteria was done using the shorter interval to insure it passed the EPA regs.
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Offline chamberlincalls

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2011, 06:40:17 pm »
I have spoken to Kawasaki about this, and they informed me that the valve train was designed to the longer European (24K mile) interval, but that the EPA testing criteria was done using the shorter interval to insure it passed the EPA regs.

Am I understanding this to mean that EPA requires manufacturer to meet certain emissions standards at certain milage (in this case 15,000) and the bike is therefore tested at that mileage and maintenance recomendations made at that same mileage?  And this is true even though manufacturer recommends longer maintenance intervals for the same bike with the same valve train in other (non-EPA) countries.   :-[   I must be misunderstanding that.

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Re: 15K Valves: How bad were they?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2011, 07:05:13 pm »
I'm not exactly sure how the EPA testing is done, so I can't really say. All I can tell you is what Kawasaki told me, which is what I stated above.
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