Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Wizzdome on August 26, 2019, 04:12:10 am

Title: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Wizzdome on August 26, 2019, 04:12:10 am
Hello,
           My nephew recently purchased a second hand c 14 the previous owner had dumped the bike, but the bike was still in good condition... However he was only given one fob as the sole way to ride the bike. The nightmare begins here. One day with his new riding jacket zipped up with the fob in the pocket he rode out and discovered after a long ride that the wind had opened his zipper and his pockets had become out turned... no more fob. The stretch of area that he rode was such a long area there was and still is no way to find where it had come out at. So now without any fob for the bike he is told that they cant program a new fob to the bike, instead they sold him an rfid key... which rediculously sounds like that wouldnt work how would that key even have been programmed to the ecu. As far as I can tell it does not work and the Kawasaki dealership he got it from was just run by morons who know absolutely nothing. Now I am not trying to flame the Kipass system, but if he had ridden to the mountains and been stranded there somewhere he could have died. I think majority of those who think the kipass is such a great idea has not had the pleasure of losing their fob and being stuck without a bike especially if it is your only mode of transportation. If you lose a fob key you might as well have just had the bike stolen as your insurance company could have replaced it sooner than you could have gotten it fixed. With that out of the way I come to my questions. 1) is there an after market racing ecu that can be installed on the bike that does not have any link to the kipass system? ( i wouldnt imagine people on the race track with a fob in thier pocket) 2) Is it not within an owners rights to have this type of system removed from thier fully paid for bike that no longer even has a waranty? (it really feels like extortion) A replacement ecu and fob plus programming would cost more than the bike is worth. So at this point it is like having a fully functional bike that you cant ride because it has a virus inside of the ecu... is that not some sort of extortion? Where is the consumer protection at? I have been studying the wiring diagrams and looking for a way to out the kipass for him and as far as i can tell there are only a few wires that communicate with the main ecu from the kipass ecu. I figure though that the programming on the kipass is probably needed to activate the fuel pump and ignite. So I am kinda in a toss because he is so at arms frustrated and he wants to cut all the wires in the thing and try to rewire the whole bike around the kipass system. I think it is a bad idea but for a thousand bucks to put a new ecu in and get it running again would be illogical as he could prolly find another bike for cheaper. And to be honest pockets are his natural enemy he would just probably lose another fob and be stuck in the same boat again. I am trying to find a good solution for him as theft security of his bike is not an issue for him the issue is being able to ride it... Any thoughts or other helpful insight would be appreciated.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Freddy on August 26, 2019, 05:21:50 am
Not the first and won't be the last.

1) No.
2) Probably, but it can't/hasn't been done.

What year is the bike?  There was a secondhand KIPASS ECU & fob for sale a few months ago on the other forum.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23202.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23202.0)


(https://i.imgur.com/lN9hOII.jpg)
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: gsun on August 26, 2019, 01:02:30 pm
Sorry for your situation. My bike came with only one FOB. The first thing I did was to get two more. I carry the spare passive one somewhere other than the active one.
How could the wind unzip a pocket? I'm thinking he forgot to zip it. I have many times but have been lucky.
That ECU on the other forum looks like a deal. Comes with two FOBS as well. Go for it!
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Wizzdome on August 26, 2019, 02:15:13 pm
I honestly think that is his best bet. Maybe just have the damn thing sewn to his skin somewhere... I guess the zippers on his pocket blew open doing over 200 mph trying to run against a tesla on a long straight... Thanks for the info. Btw just getting a new ecu and fob isnt just plug and play correct? He is still gonna have to tow bike to dealer to program it to the main ecu right?
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Bud on August 26, 2019, 02:49:59 pm
Freddy posted it, but I'll do it again.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23202.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23202.0)
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: JoeR on August 26, 2019, 03:03:52 pm
Saw this on eBay today, may or may not be a solution:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-GTR-1400-Concours-14-KIPASS-hands-free-FOB-keys-programming/323687902211?hash=item4b5d4d6c03:g:8FEAAOSwIz5cXzCD (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-GTR-1400-Concours-14-KIPASS-hands-free-FOB-keys-programming/323687902211?hash=item4b5d4d6c03:g:8FEAAOSwIz5cXzCD)
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Wizzdome on August 26, 2019, 03:08:18 pm
Thank you , this forum really seems to have a great knowlege base you all are appreciated!!!
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Harry on August 26, 2019, 03:20:56 pm
Not the first and won't be the last.

1) No.
2) Probably, but it can't/hasn't been done.

What year is the bike?  There was a secondhand KIPASS ECU & fob for sale a few months ago on the other forum.

[url]http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23202.0[/url] ([url]http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23202.0[/url])

([url]https://i.imgur.com/lN9hOII.jpg[/url])



I have done the same thing, but I do not trust tie-wraps. Mine is in a padded USB case and secure with a metal hook. It stays clipped into my jeans pocket. A spare hangs around my neck. Both have dog tags stamped with a phone number for a reward when returned.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Wizzdome on August 26, 2019, 04:10:52 pm
Not sure if the eu mentioned earlier would be compatible as the bike it is from is first gen and this one is a 2010 second gen. ecu has part number "21175-0297" but i am having no luck locating anything that comes with a fob. If you get one new does it not come with a fob i thought they had to pair them in factory and ship them together... Idk where to look for the best deals so if anyone else has any ideas of where to go next I am up for suggestions.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Bud on August 26, 2019, 04:17:01 pm
Thank you , this forum really seems to have a great knowlege base you all are appreciated!!!
Please consider joining COG as a paying member.  We are more than just a forum.  COG is an actual club.  It's around $40 to join.  It costs money to keep the forum going as well as the club.  After you join, you'll get a handbook that has all the members listed, complete with addresses and phone numbers of folks you can call for help when you're on the road and maybe stranded somewhere.  You also get the Concourier magazine twice a year IIRC.  All in all, it's the most important farkle you can buy for cheap!  Welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Wizzdome on August 26, 2019, 04:21:35 pm
Thanks, I will keep that in mind... I actually joined this forum to try and help my nephew. I dont actually ride myself, but this kid is not the brightest thing, so i figure it is easier for me to the footwork on the internet... (just for clarification he just recently broke the power button off of his phone because it was stuck and after hitting it on the corner of the table for about 5 minutes and it not unsticking he got a screwdriver and pryed it off (lol) he did manage to get it turned back on tho!!!
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: strum on August 26, 2019, 06:04:33 pm
Thanks, I will keep that in mind... I actually joined this forum to try and help my nephew. I dont actually ride myself, but this kid is not the brightest thing, so i figure it is easier for me to the footwork on the internet... (just for clarification he just recently broke the power button off of his phone because it was stuck and after hitting it on the corner of the table for about 5 minutes and it not unsticking he got a screwdriver and pryed it off (lol) he did manage to get it turned back on tho!!!

 Hope he is smart enough to handle the raw power of the beast.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 26, 2019, 06:16:06 pm
Not sure if the eu mentioned earlier would be compatible as the bike it is from is first gen and this one is a 2010 second gen. ecu has part number "21175-0297" but i am having no luck locating anything that comes with a fob. If you get one new does it not come with a fob i thought they had to pair them in factory and ship them together... Idk where to look for the best deals so if anyone else has any ideas of where to go next I am up for suggestions.


Ok, first I offer my condolences to your nephew.. because there is no "easy/simple/cheap" alternative...

Saw this on eBay today, may or may not be a solution:
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-GTR-1400-Concours-14-KIPASS-hands-free-FOB-keys-programming/323687902211?hash=item4b5d4d6c03:g:8FEAAOSwIz5cXzCD[/url] ([url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-GTR-1400-Concours-14-KIPASS-hands-free-FOB-keys-programming/323687902211?hash=item4b5d4d6c03:g:8FEAAOSwIz5cXzCD[/url])


Read below:
I strongly caution you about these people on e-bay, a person here attempted this.. it did not work for him....
^^^^^^^
even the link that was provided to the e-bay supplier in Poland; as someone has already attempted that route, and has not returned here months later, to explain that he pretty much got taken for the money... he never received his components back, and is still without a solution... months later...

We have (those of us that really work hard to supply answers) settled on the simple fact, that without any FOB whatsoever, your system cannot be fixed here...

read over this posting, it explains the actual "replacement kit" you will need, and also note you will still need to have the bike towed to a certified Kaw dealer, or someone with intimate knowledge on this system, that owns a KDS interface, with software.

The programming entails completely replacing the parts, in specific order, and co-ordinating them during the install to insure it's operation.. it is not a "simple" thing.

here are the "kits" by model year. They will need to be ordered from Kawasaki, thru Kawasaki dealership...

http://forum.cog-online.org/general-information-57/if-you-lost-all-your-fobs/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/general-information-57/if-you-lost-all-your-fobs/)


to date, no person has yet to have success other than utilizing the replacements.

I can sympathize, but the original cost of his running bike, was for the bike... he lost his only means of turning it on; the cost of the replacement parts, is just part of the price of negligence, unfortunately... not really any different than buying a bike, draining the oil, and forgetting to refill it... that cost for a repair is about the same.

best of luck,
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: gpd323 on August 27, 2019, 12:06:14 am
When the FOB left the bike the dash should have lit up immediately and warned the rider that the transponder signal was gone, the red light on the dash should have also lit up. Then he could have stopped and retraced his route to find it.

Sorry for your issues.

When my FOB in a quilted liner bungee corded to my rear seat went bye bye, it flew off and I was on a long bridge and it went over the railing and disappeared forever. If only it ad been before or after the bridge I would have found it.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 27, 2019, 12:17:41 am
the "polling" for the missing FOB is not immediate, depending on speed, and distance traveled, he could have covered 10 miles or more, before the warning.. I have tested it.. just adding.
test it yourself, start the bike, then walk away, wrap the fob in tin foil.. and see..  :-X :-X :-X :-X :truce:
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: gpd323 on August 27, 2019, 12:39:39 am
Then how come if the FOB is in a bad pocket location that the bike sees to start but then cannot see within a few yards is this possible?

10 miles? Really?

I'll try and see just because.

Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: gsun on August 27, 2019, 03:25:10 am
Still think it's not possible for the zipper to come open and the FOB fly out. And the C-14 won't do 200MPH as stock. 150 is about it. I think he is telling you stories. He probably just lost it.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: TimR on August 27, 2019, 06:51:03 am
It might be worth at least looking for the fob along his route. I know of a similar incident where a FOB came out of a Jacket pocket on a group ride. The poor guy was stuck and a call to the local Kawasaki dealer said nothing they could do. No one was at home to bring the spare. Some Canadian COGGERS decided to go back down the mountain to look for it. Much to every one's surprise, they found it in a clump of weeds along side the road.  Sometimes a sharp eye and dumb luck pay off.


Like others it taught me to put it in a deep pocket, a zipped pocket or in my case I have mine on a lanyard around my neck.

Good luck on your endeavor. These are great motorcycles but no way around Kipass. 

 
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Conrad on August 27, 2019, 11:49:46 am
When the FOB left the bike the dash should have lit up immediately and warned the rider that the transponder signal was gone, the red light on the dash should have also lit up. Then he could have stopped and retraced his route to find it.

Sorry for your issues.

When my FOB in a quilted liner bungee corded to my rear seat went bye bye, it flew off and I was on a long bridge and it went over the railing and disappeared forever. If only it ad been before or after the bridge I would have found it.

But he was riding at 200mph* racing the Tesla.  :motonoises:   It's no wonder that he didn't notice the wind picking his pockets.

*YMMV
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: HiSport on August 27, 2019, 02:53:56 pm
This makes a cautionary tale

Always have a spare wallet key - which will start the bike, plus has the DNA required to program a replacement fob

Here's typical p/n's and retail pricing:

 This item: Kawasaki SPARE FOB KEY (21175-0256) $42.64
Kawasaki KEY-LOCK, BLANK, #A, SPARE FOB (27008-0062) $13.92
Kawasaki KEY-LOCK, BLANK, #B, SPARE FOB (27008-0063) $13.92
Kawasaki FOB KEY (21175-0726) $307.90
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Bud on August 27, 2019, 05:05:35 pm
Kawasaki FOB KEY (21175-0726) $307.90

Partzilla Price  Kawasaki FOB KEY (21175-0726) $234.72
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: smithr1 on August 27, 2019, 05:23:58 pm
It sounds stupid but did you try to start the bike?  I thought I lost mine and turns out it was on the bike.  I just went out and it started and I knew it had to be close. 
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 27, 2019, 06:37:23 pm
Then how come if the FOB is in a bad pocket location that the bike sees to start but then cannot see within a few yards is this possible?

10 miles? Really?

I'll try and see just because.

as I mentioned, once the bike is "started", it doesn't care about the fob.. until it "polls" for it during riding... this entails the bike moving, and at a rate of 20kph or more, for a distance (un-specified)... at that point it "polls" again, and tires to "find the FOB.. if not present, THEN it signals the fob is missing.. , but even then, if some other malfunction prevents the bike's speed from being sensed (bad gauge, sensor, etc.) the error will not pop up..

"Running
The system tries to detect the FOB each time the vehicle
goes above 20 km/h.
*The system will not detect the FOB key if it cannot detect
the vehicle speed, such as in case of a meter malfunction.

•If the system cannot detect the FOB key, an error message
will appear on the meter. The message will disappear
if the system can detect the FOB key.
*If the system is unable to authenticate, it will maintain
authentication communication until the ignition is turned
OFF. •The operation range of the FOB key could change because
it uses weak radiowave signals. Thus, an error
message could appear even if the FOB key is within the
use range.
*This will not stop the engine after it is started."

now, with this explanation, if the bike was started, and you take off, come above 20kph, and stay above that speed for a "distance", it will not "poll" for the presence of the FOB until a point where you slow down (below 20kph), or stop, and then accelerate up to 20 kph again.  Or, you stop, and turn thee bike off.. then, again, it "polls" and will give the messege, and give you 10 seconds ONLY, to restart the bike..after that.. it's locked, and done. Normal "polling" if FOB is present, gives you 3 seconds after turning the bike off, and will have no warning as Fob is seen at that point.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Wizzdome on September 13, 2019, 12:02:33 am
Well there is no discouraging this kid and he is beating himself to death to get it to run... So far he has cut all the wires in a fit of rage to the fob ecu... then he swears because it is turning that it is gonna start... now the fun part kicks in... he buys a ninja 600 that someone had abbandoned engine work to. He then tears the whole thing apart and now is attempting to completely rewire the engine... im exhausted with his project now and just wish he would get it started so he will move on!!! I think he may be ADD and never diagnosed... anyhow... He has gotten it close to firing today but I tell you what this incident has made me lose a lot of respect for Kawasaki... Sorry to say I do like the idea, but i think you need an owners failsafe so that no rider may ever be stranded again. Now i got two torn apart bikes strewn across my driveway and a frustrated kid who reminds me alot of the kid at the store throwin a fit because his mom wont let him have something... If anyone knows where to get a good deal on parts or knows of a fallen 2010 someone wants rid of please feel free to leave a link... all of your insight has been appreciated.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Freddy on September 13, 2019, 12:06:55 am
The following could have helped but toooo late now.  You have our sympathy I'm sure.    :-[

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24235.15 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24235.15)
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Phil on September 13, 2019, 05:57:54 pm
It sounds stupid but did you try to start the bike?  I thought I lost mine and turns out it was on the bike.  I just went out and it started and I knew it had to be close.

 :rotflmao:

That's how I looked for my FOB last week. My wife and I got ready for a ride, had everything packed, and I couldn't find my FOB. I looked everywhere around the bike since I just had it. I looked in the tank bag, in between the saddlebags and the bike, nothing. My wife had a FOB with her, so I had her go inside the house so hers wouldn't activate KIPASS. I pushed the stove key, and the system activated. It had to be near. I had to completely empty a large tank bag and found it buried inside.  >:(  :))
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: IBAJIM on September 13, 2019, 11:40:34 pm
This makes a cautionary tale

Always have a spare wallet key - which will start the bike, plus has the DNA required to program a replacement fob

Here's typical p/n's and retail pricing:

 This item: Kawasaki SPARE FOB KEY (21175-0256) $42.64
Kawasaki KEY-LOCK, BLANK, #A, SPARE FOB (27008-0062) $13.92
Kawasaki KEY-LOCK, BLANK, #B, SPARE FOB (27008-0063) $13.92
Kawasaki FOB KEY (21175-0726) $307.90

OK, could someone please explain what each of the above items actually are ??  I would really appreciate it.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: strum on September 14, 2019, 12:02:42 am
This makes a cautionary tale

Always have a spare wallet key - which will start the bike, plus has the DNA required to program a replacement fob

Here's typical p/n's and retail pricing:

 This item: Kawasaki SPARE FOB KEY (21175-0256) $42.64
Kawasaki KEY-LOCK, BLANK, #A, SPARE FOB (27008-0062) $13.92
Kawasaki KEY-LOCK, BLANK, #B, SPARE FOB (27008-0063) $13.92
Kawasaki FOB KEY (21175-0726) $307.90

OK, could someone please explain what each of the above items actually are ??  I would really appreciate it.

My 08 came with 2 regular Fobs. But my 16 Came with  only one (these are the black ones that take a battery:Active Fob 21175-0726)
 Then I have a small flat Fob that does not use a battery : its an Immobilizer or Passive Fob 21175-0256
 So these come with keys . The key for the main fob is different than the key for the little spare Fob.
 Hope this helps.
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: gPink on September 14, 2019, 12:05:24 am
passive and active
Title: Re: 2010 c14 lost fob options and owners rights...
Post by: Freddy on September 14, 2019, 12:53:24 am
What it all means IBAJIM is, don't have just one fob..........or it could get expensive and inconvenient.   >:(