Author Topic: 24,000 mi. valve check?  (Read 10535 times)

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Offline 2wheelrush

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24,000 mi. valve check?
« on: January 24, 2015, 07:47:17 pm »
Did Kawasaki change something in the 2015 model? Or did rider magazine make another mistake? :-\

Offline flashback50

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2015, 08:28:47 pm »
think they meant 24000 km

Offline gpd323

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 02:28:25 am »
IIRC the 1st valve check is at 25 thousands miles.

Just for reference. My 2006 ZX14 has had 3 valve checks in 71 thousand miles. Never needed an adjustment. All within spec the entire time. Going to run it 100K miles plus and never worry about it again.
Greg Downing
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Offline Skiee

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2015, 02:30:31 am »
There are a few members that say not to bother with the 15k check. They say consider checking them between 20-25k.
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 03:07:47 am »
If you run it a lot at high rpms then 15 is the number. If not then 25 K should be fine. I have run my bike on he track at high rpm levels for the whole time. At 15 every valve was tight and 14 of 16 were no longer in spec. That was one track day and some spirited riding the remainder of the 15 miles.
Matt
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Offline Red Fox

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 04:00:44 am »
Quote gpd323:
Just for reference. My 2006 ZX14 has had 3 valve checks in 71 thousand miles. Never needed an adjustment.

If you run it a lot at high rpms then 15 is the number. If not then 25 K should be fine. I have run my bike on the track
at high rpm levels for the whole time. At 15 every valve was tight and 14 of 16 were no longer in spec.

Appreciation for this info here coming from this rider with 26k on the clock - and no valve check. 
A trusted 45 yr old mechanic told me this winter, just ride it until it becomes hard to start ...
TryCities, WA.    2011  C-14, silver;  62,000 miles.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 04:40:48 am »
IIRC the 1st valve check is at 25 thousands miles.

Just for reference. My 2006 ZX14 has had 3 valve checks in 71 thousand miles. Never needed an adjustment. All within spec the entire time. Going to run it 100K miles plus and never worry about it again.

did you pay a dealer to do the valve checks, or did you physically do them yourself?  :o

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Offline mattchewn

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 02:29:40 pm »
IIRC the 1st valve check is at 25 thousands miles.

Just for reference. My 2006 ZX14 has had 3 valve checks in 71 thousand miles. Never needed an adjustment. All within spec the entire time. Going to run it 100K miles plus and never worry about it again.

did you pay a dealer to do the valve checks, or did you physically do them yourself?  :o
+1
I have a real hard time believing that in 70k the valves are still in spec. Even if you ride like a grandma. They ripped you off. Mine are out at 15k! I have been a mechanic/technician in the auto world long enough to know that valves do not go 70 K without becoming out of spec on a bike.
Matt
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Offline gpd323

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 03:47:44 pm »
I take my bikes to a very good MC shop. I usually take all the plastics off 1st and then trailer it to the shop. This last time the Kawasaki valve cover gasket (3rd generation) cured my VC oil leak  :great:. My KLR did need one shim changed at 16K miles. But the ZX14 has been in spec the entire time. The valves get tight because the valve seat area wears. I rarely spend anytime at high RPM's. I am usually between 3 and 6 thousand RPM's the whole time. Call me an old man but that's the way I ride my bikes.

If I had revved it all the time high RPM's then I suspect the wear would have been quite a bit more and maybe shims would have been needed. I am going to 30K before I have the C14 checked. I ride it the same way. Although I find myself at higher speeds overall.  :motonoises:

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Offline Red Fox

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 10:15:21 pm »
I rarely spend anytime at high RPM's. I am usually between 3 and 6 thousand RPM's the whole time. Call me an old man but that's the way I ride my bikes.

If I had revved it all the time high RPM's then I suspect the wear would have been quite a bit more and maybe shims would have been needed.

OK, say I ride like an old man, too.  But <6K rpm is my normal range, too.
Do notice that C-14 engine is very smooth, balanced and powerful at 8K, but these are rare occurrences. 
Figure it for yourself and compare.

I'm at 26,000 miles on C-14 and bet I'll go to 40-45K before the initial valve check; then set all to max clearances and never check again.

'Tis my plan at this point!

Best.
TryCities, WA.    2011  C-14, silver;  62,000 miles.

Offline seagiant1

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 11:57:41 pm »
Hi,
       Well I'm going to 25,000, never thought about 45!!!!  ::)

  I guess I'm a moderate driver also. Between skill level,traffic and cops in Florida, (4000 rpm's at 90 mph!) :-[

 I rarely see 8000 rpms! ;D
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2015, 01:56:07 am »
I rarely spend anytime at high RPM's. I am usually between 3 and 6 thousand RPM's the whole time. Call me an old man but that's the way I ride my bikes.

If I had revved it all the time high RPM's then I suspect the wear would have been quite a bit more and maybe shims would have been needed.

OK, say I ride like an old man, too.  But <6K rpm is my normal range, too.
Do notice that C-14 engine is very smooth, balanced and powerful at 8K, but these are rare occurrences. 
Figure it for yourself and compare.

I'm at 26,000 miles on C-14 and bet I'll go to 40-45K before the initial valve check; then set all to max clearances and never check again.

'Tis my plan at this point!

Best.

I'm just gonna say this.
You can ride this bike like a Banshee with hair on fire, or you can lug it around town in 6th gear at 40mph, and I'll tell you the valve issues will be identical. High rpm and low rpm lugging along at 2000 or below, do as much to cause wear and issues as the opposites.
This bike when ran ad " moderate to upper moderate limits" is what it was designed for. The valve train works the best there.
I can say for certain anyone that rides this bike in a gear where it isn't rolling along at 3k rpm, at lower speeds is doing the same to the engine that someone running at 6k at higher speeds.  if you choose to ride this bike, valve inspectionfree for 70k miles, you are risking issues, and by the time you get 70k, you will likely be out of extended warranty, like it would matter if you could not produce documents, even your own documents; as to if there was an inspection within that period.

simply silly to do.

it's your bike.
 :-[

Inspections are done, simply to give the documentation there is no issue. With that in mind, refusing to INSPECT, just says you don't care.

just saying that if you had a new bike, fully under factory warranty, went out, ran it as you wish for 70k in the first 2 years, and it blew up... and when the diagnostics are done because you feel it should have been ok, and they find all, or even 50% of the valves below the recommended limits.. with no documentation whatsoever, (i.e. you produce a shim map, with dates, and any part reciepts coinciding with your work), you pay. very simple. Your warranty is void.

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Offline Red Fox

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 04:11:51 pm »
...

...

I'm just gonna say this...

Inspections are done, simply to give the documentation there is no issue.
A) With that in mind, refusing to INSPECT, just says you don't care.

B) just saying that ... with no documentation whatsoever ... Your warranty is void.

MOB, I respect your posts and view points and have a question for you
But first a minor correction:

A) Declining to invest time, effort, cost in valve inspection just says I've done my own risk/reward analysis on valve failure.


B) Well, warranty voiding would only happen if the lack of specific maintenance is relevant to the failure.
So if I've not yet inspected valves, but the tranny bearing goes out - my bike's warranty is still valid and will cover repair.
At least here in Washington State (government regulation, I'm told).  I hope/suspect Kawasaki's warranty policy is the same elsewhere.

Overall, I don't recall hearing of a valve failure in a water cooled M/C; a riding friend told me that he's only heard
of one burned valve in the 3.5 decades of water cooled motorcycle engines and his decades of riding.


Question to you, MOB: how many burned M/C valves have you encountered (1st, 2nd or 3rd hand) over these last 3.5 decades?

Your personally recalled information here might have me revisit my risk/reward analysis. 


[/size]
TryCities, WA.    2011  C-14, silver;  62,000 miles.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 07:24:26 pm »
Why are burned valves the only benchmark for needing to do a valve adjustment? what about decreased performance and fuel economy? Here's a little video I did, might help you make sense of it . Steve

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQEFWeFeqUo
 
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Offline hlh1

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2015, 07:41:13 pm »
Why are burned valves the only benchmark for needing to do a valve adjustment? what about decreased performance and fuel economy? Here's a little video I did, might help you make sense of it . Steve

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQEFWeFeqUo

 

Excellent! 

When my C14 is ready for it's next valve adjustment I'm going to make a trip to FL to see Steve. 
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2015, 07:42:58 pm »
I have not seen burned valves per se, but have seen 2 documented instances of engine damage or potential for imminent damage on this bike since 07 relating to failure to adjust. Both were on the other forum which had / still has a higher amount of traffic and documentation of issues than this forum.
First instance was a grenaded engine, that during the post mortem it was ascertained an extreme carbon buildup, and consequent piston damage occurred when a piece of carbon broke free, and mashed the piston. I querried at the time, the owner and subsequent tech that did the repair, and our conclusion was an exhaust and an intake valve were both not fully closing (adjustment issue) which allowed the excessive carbon buildup. Another cylinder in the same engine was exhibiting the symptoms also, but had not gone far enough. That engine had 36k on it iirc. Did not have a history of oil consuption relative to bad rings either.
Owner dished out almost $2k for repair, then sold bike. Havnt seen him online since.

Second instance was someone with starting / running issues, bike had approx 30k, was ridden like a grandpa bike, and constantly lugged in 6th gear at 3k rpms its whole life. Owner took it in, still under warrenty, and it was found to have more than half the valves below the spec, blowby was occurring, and full compression was not being achived. Unknown as to if any "damage" internally or to valves occurred, likely he lucked out, but still had to pay for an adjust, and it was duly noted in his service record that scheduled service had not been done; he was notified he may be ineligible for any subsequent valve related issues in the future at that time. Ain't heard back from him either.

With the amount of these bikes out there, the cross section we see here and on the other forum of actual ownership and issues is minuscule, compared to how many people have them... we are a small percentage of the actual owners.

There is simply no reason to risk pushing the limits twice beyond the recommended parameters. If there was an issue from the factory, and this does occur, its better to have some documentation of that fact. Enough of us here that HAVE done our own inspections cannot be disputed when we find clearances that are at or below min spec under 30k miles. In retrospect, we see a lot of people reporting they had inspections "done" at a dealer, and they were "ALL fine"... but none, I repeat NONE of those people have produced a shim map proving such, so there ya have it... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Steve's Vid shows this effect. I think he also will back me on the simple need to "know what ya got", and not just ride it till a problem arises, and then sell it off...
I plan on keeping this bike a long time. I get great pleasure from it, and don't like "wondering" if something is gonna go south at any moment. Many people don't care, and many people have way more money than I do.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 09:52:17 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline JimH_PA

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2015, 08:15:22 pm »
  Great video Steve!!   Thanks for sharing. 
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Offline jdegraff

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2015, 05:51:11 pm »
I have yet to take a bike to a mechanic and get it back without a loose or unplugged wire/stripped or loose bolt. Different shops and different guys. My experience is the profession could use a flush and refill. I will do my own inspection and adjustment if need be and my warranty will not be void regardless of what someone on the internet says.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2015, 07:44:11 pm »
I have yet to take a bike to a mechanic and get it back without a loose or unplugged wire/stripped or loose bolt. Different shops and different guys. My experience is the profession could use a flush and refill. I will do my own inspection and adjustment if need be and my warranty will not be void regardless of what someone on the internet says.

I never said your warranty would be void if you personally do the inspection. Simply keep records of dates and services you do, and any reciepts. You cannot be denied coverege if you have documentation.
I'm sure you would keep better records than any dealership as to what you fix/adjust, and that is all you need... :great: :great:

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Offline olie

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2015, 10:09:18 pm »
the Service Manual says 26k miles (42k km) interval for valve check...  :motonoises:
Valveclearance-inspect US,CAModel • OtherthanUS, 2-22 Every42000km(26000mile)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 10:30:20 pm by olie »
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2015, 11:42:59 pm »
olie,m
Check that once more. For the US and Canada it is 26000 KM (15000 miles) for inspection. Everywhere else it is 42K KM or 25000 miles.
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Offline olie

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2015, 12:26:06 am »
I know, I am a foreigner  :great:
26k miles if it good for Europe, it will be good for me. That s what I did with my old 09.
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Offline Pbfoot

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2015, 12:50:47 am »
Remind me not to buy a used C14.
If you don't have time to do it right, when do you have time to do it over.                                                                17" wheels, Nissin 4 piston calipers.1kg Sonic Springs.Cartridge Fork Emulators. KB Brace. Galfer brake lines  Free power mod.

Offline mattchewn

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2015, 01:04:09 am »
Hey leadfoot,
Don't buy a used C14.

 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

Matt
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« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 01:29:23 am by mattchewn »
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Offline seagiant1

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2015, 01:27:31 am »
Hi,
        Well...I bought a used 2012 C14,but it only had 1900 miles on it! ;D ;D ;D :great:
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 02:02:38 am by seagiant1 »
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