Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: 2wheelrush on January 24, 2015, 07:47:17 pm

Title: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: 2wheelrush on January 24, 2015, 07:47:17 pm
Did Kawasaki change something in the 2015 model? Or did rider magazine make another mistake? :-\
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: flashback50 on January 24, 2015, 08:28:47 pm
think they meant 24000 km
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: gpd323 on January 25, 2015, 02:28:25 am
IIRC the 1st valve check is at 25 thousands miles.

Just for reference. My 2006 ZX14 has had 3 valve checks in 71 thousand miles. Never needed an adjustment. All within spec the entire time. Going to run it 100K miles plus and never worry about it again.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Skiee on January 25, 2015, 02:30:31 am
There are a few members that say not to bother with the 15k check. They say consider checking them between 20-25k.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: mattchewn on January 25, 2015, 03:07:47 am
If you run it a lot at high rpms then 15 is the number. If not then 25 K should be fine. I have run my bike on he track at high rpm levels for the whole time. At 15 every valve was tight and 14 of 16 were no longer in spec. That was one track day and some spirited riding the remainder of the 15 miles.
Matt
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Red Fox on January 25, 2015, 04:00:44 am
Quote gpd323:
Just for reference. My 2006 ZX14 has had 3 valve checks in 71 thousand miles. Never needed an adjustment.

If you run it a lot at high rpms then 15 is the number. If not then 25 K should be fine. I have run my bike on the track
at high rpm levels for the whole time. At 15 every valve was tight and 14 of 16 were no longer in spec.

Appreciation for this info here coming from this rider with 26k on the clock - and no valve check. 
A trusted 45 yr old mechanic told me this winter, just ride it until it becomes hard to start ...
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on January 25, 2015, 04:40:48 am
IIRC the 1st valve check is at 25 thousands miles.

Just for reference. My 2006 ZX14 has had 3 valve checks in 71 thousand miles. Never needed an adjustment. All within spec the entire time. Going to run it 100K miles plus and never worry about it again.

did you pay a dealer to do the valve checks, or did you physically do them yourself?  :o
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: mattchewn on January 25, 2015, 02:29:40 pm
IIRC the 1st valve check is at 25 thousands miles.

Just for reference. My 2006 ZX14 has had 3 valve checks in 71 thousand miles. Never needed an adjustment. All within spec the entire time. Going to run it 100K miles plus and never worry about it again.

did you pay a dealer to do the valve checks, or did you physically do them yourself?  :o
+1
I have a real hard time believing that in 70k the valves are still in spec. Even if you ride like a grandma. They ripped you off. Mine are out at 15k! I have been a mechanic/technician in the auto world long enough to know that valves do not go 70 K without becoming out of spec on a bike.
Matt
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: gpd323 on January 25, 2015, 03:47:44 pm
I take my bikes to a very good MC shop. I usually take all the plastics off 1st and then trailer it to the shop. This last time the Kawasaki valve cover gasket (3rd generation) cured my VC oil leak  :great:. My KLR did need one shim changed at 16K miles. But the ZX14 has been in spec the entire time. The valves get tight because the valve seat area wears. I rarely spend anytime at high RPM's. I am usually between 3 and 6 thousand RPM's the whole time. Call me an old man but that's the way I ride my bikes.

If I had revved it all the time high RPM's then I suspect the wear would have been quite a bit more and maybe shims would have been needed. I am going to 30K before I have the C14 checked. I ride it the same way. Although I find myself at higher speeds overall.  :motonoises:

Here is my ZX14
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/gpd323/20140606_102435_zps208bbea4.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/gpd323/media/20140606_102435_zps208bbea4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Red Fox on January 25, 2015, 10:15:21 pm
I rarely spend anytime at high RPM's. I am usually between 3 and 6 thousand RPM's the whole time. Call me an old man but that's the way I ride my bikes.

If I had revved it all the time high RPM's then I suspect the wear would have been quite a bit more and maybe shims would have been needed.

OK, say I ride like an old man, too.  But <6K rpm is my normal range, too.
Do notice that C-14 engine is very smooth, balanced and powerful at 8K, but these are rare occurrences. 
Figure it for yourself and compare.

I'm at 26,000 miles on C-14 and bet I'll go to 40-45K before the initial valve check; then set all to max clearances and never check again.

'Tis my plan at this point!

Best.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: seagiant1 on January 25, 2015, 11:57:41 pm
Hi,
       Well I'm going to 25,000, never thought about 45!!!!  ::)

  I guess I'm a moderate driver also. Between skill level,traffic and cops in Florida, (4000 rpm's at 90 mph!) :-[

 I rarely see 8000 rpms! ;D
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on January 26, 2015, 01:56:07 am
I rarely spend anytime at high RPM's. I am usually between 3 and 6 thousand RPM's the whole time. Call me an old man but that's the way I ride my bikes.

If I had revved it all the time high RPM's then I suspect the wear would have been quite a bit more and maybe shims would have been needed.

OK, say I ride like an old man, too.  But <6K rpm is my normal range, too.
Do notice that C-14 engine is very smooth, balanced and powerful at 8K, but these are rare occurrences. 
Figure it for yourself and compare.

I'm at 26,000 miles on C-14 and bet I'll go to 40-45K before the initial valve check; then set all to max clearances and never check again.

'Tis my plan at this point!

Best.

I'm just gonna say this.
You can ride this bike like a Banshee with hair on fire, or you can lug it around town in 6th gear at 40mph, and I'll tell you the valve issues will be identical. High rpm and low rpm lugging along at 2000 or below, do as much to cause wear and issues as the opposites.
This bike when ran ad " moderate to upper moderate limits" is what it was designed for. The valve train works the best there.
I can say for certain anyone that rides this bike in a gear where it isn't rolling along at 3k rpm, at lower speeds is doing the same to the engine that someone running at 6k at higher speeds.  if you choose to ride this bike, valve inspectionfree for 70k miles, you are risking issues, and by the time you get 70k, you will likely be out of extended warranty, like it would matter if you could not produce documents, even your own documents; as to if there was an inspection within that period.

simply silly to do.

it's your bike.
 :-[

Inspections are done, simply to give the documentation there is no issue. With that in mind, refusing to INSPECT, just says you don't care.

just saying that if you had a new bike, fully under factory warranty, went out, ran it as you wish for 70k in the first 2 years, and it blew up... and when the diagnostics are done because you feel it should have been ok, and they find all, or even 50% of the valves below the recommended limits.. with no documentation whatsoever, (i.e. you produce a shim map, with dates, and any part reciepts coinciding with your work), you pay. very simple. Your warranty is void.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Red Fox on January 29, 2015, 04:11:51 pm
...

...

I'm just gonna say this...

Inspections are done, simply to give the documentation there is no issue.
A) With that in mind, refusing to INSPECT, just says you don't care.

B) just saying that ... with no documentation whatsoever ... Your warranty is void.

MOB, I respect your posts and view points and have a question for you
But first a minor correction:

A) Declining to invest time, effort, cost in valve inspection just says I've done my own risk/reward analysis on valve failure.


B) Well, warranty voiding would only happen if the lack of specific maintenance is relevant to the failure.
So if I've not yet inspected valves, but the tranny bearing goes out - my bike's warranty is still valid and will cover repair.
At least here in Washington State (government regulation, I'm told).  I hope/suspect Kawasaki's warranty policy is the same elsewhere.

Overall, I don't recall hearing of a valve failure in a water cooled M/C; a riding friend told me that he's only heard
of one burned valve in the 3.5 decades of water cooled motorcycle engines and his decades of riding.


Question to you, MOB: how many burned M/C valves have you encountered (1st, 2nd or 3rd hand) over these last 3.5 decades?

Your personally recalled information here might have me revisit my risk/reward analysis. 


[/size]
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 29, 2015, 07:24:26 pm
Why are burned valves the only benchmark for needing to do a valve adjustment? what about decreased performance and fuel economy? Here's a little video I did, might help you make sense of it . Steve

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQEFWeFeqUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQEFWeFeqUo)
 
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: hlh1 on January 29, 2015, 07:41:13 pm
Why are burned valves the only benchmark for needing to do a valve adjustment? what about decreased performance and fuel economy? Here's a little video I did, might help you make sense of it . Steve

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQEFWeFeqUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQEFWeFeqUo)
 

Excellent! 

When my C14 is ready for it's next valve adjustment I'm going to make a trip to FL to see Steve. 
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on January 29, 2015, 07:42:58 pm
I have not seen burned valves per se, but have seen 2 documented instances of engine damage or potential for imminent damage on this bike since 07 relating to failure to adjust. Both were on the other forum which had / still has a higher amount of traffic and documentation of issues than this forum.
First instance was a grenaded engine, that during the post mortem it was ascertained an extreme carbon buildup, and consequent piston damage occurred when a piece of carbon broke free, and mashed the piston. I querried at the time, the owner and subsequent tech that did the repair, and our conclusion was an exhaust and an intake valve were both not fully closing (adjustment issue) which allowed the excessive carbon buildup. Another cylinder in the same engine was exhibiting the symptoms also, but had not gone far enough. That engine had 36k on it iirc. Did not have a history of oil consuption relative to bad rings either.
Owner dished out almost $2k for repair, then sold bike. Havnt seen him online since.

Second instance was someone with starting / running issues, bike had approx 30k, was ridden like a grandpa bike, and constantly lugged in 6th gear at 3k rpms its whole life. Owner took it in, still under warrenty, and it was found to have more than half the valves below the spec, blowby was occurring, and full compression was not being achived. Unknown as to if any "damage" internally or to valves occurred, likely he lucked out, but still had to pay for an adjust, and it was duly noted in his service record that scheduled service had not been done; he was notified he may be ineligible for any subsequent valve related issues in the future at that time. Ain't heard back from him either.

With the amount of these bikes out there, the cross section we see here and on the other forum of actual ownership and issues is minuscule, compared to how many people have them... we are a small percentage of the actual owners.

There is simply no reason to risk pushing the limits twice beyond the recommended parameters. If there was an issue from the factory, and this does occur, its better to have some documentation of that fact. Enough of us here that HAVE done our own inspections cannot be disputed when we find clearances that are at or below min spec under 30k miles. In retrospect, we see a lot of people reporting they had inspections "done" at a dealer, and they were "ALL fine"... but none, I repeat NONE of those people have produced a shim map proving such, so there ya have it... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Steve's Vid shows this effect. I think he also will back me on the simple need to "know what ya got", and not just ride it till a problem arises, and then sell it off...
I plan on keeping this bike a long time. I get great pleasure from it, and don't like "wondering" if something is gonna go south at any moment. Many people don't care, and many people have way more money than I do.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: JimH_PA on January 29, 2015, 08:15:22 pm
  Great video Steve!!   Thanks for sharing. 
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: jdegraff on January 30, 2015, 05:51:11 pm
I have yet to take a bike to a mechanic and get it back without a loose or unplugged wire/stripped or loose bolt. Different shops and different guys. My experience is the profession could use a flush and refill. I will do my own inspection and adjustment if need be and my warranty will not be void regardless of what someone on the internet says.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on January 30, 2015, 07:44:11 pm
I have yet to take a bike to a mechanic and get it back without a loose or unplugged wire/stripped or loose bolt. Different shops and different guys. My experience is the profession could use a flush and refill. I will do my own inspection and adjustment if need be and my warranty will not be void regardless of what someone on the internet says.

I never said your warranty would be void if you personally do the inspection. Simply keep records of dates and services you do, and any reciepts. You cannot be denied coverege if you have documentation.
I'm sure you would keep better records than any dealership as to what you fix/adjust, and that is all you need... :great: :great:
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: olie on February 04, 2015, 10:09:18 pm
the Service Manual says 26k miles (42k km) interval for valve check...  :motonoises:
Valveclearance-inspect US,CAModel • OtherthanUS, 2-22 Every42000km(26000mile)
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: mattchewn on February 04, 2015, 11:42:59 pm
olie,m
Check that once more. For the US and Canada it is 26000 KM (15000 miles) for inspection. Everywhere else it is 42K KM or 25000 miles.
Matt
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: olie on February 05, 2015, 12:26:06 am
I know, I am a foreigner  :great:
26k miles if it good for Europe, it will be good for me. That s what I did with my old 09.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Pbfoot on February 05, 2015, 12:50:47 am
Remind me not to buy a used C14.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: mattchewn on February 05, 2015, 01:04:09 am
Hey leadfoot,
Don't buy a used C14.

 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

Matt
GD spell check!!
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: seagiant1 on February 05, 2015, 01:27:31 am
Hi,
        Well...I bought a used 2012 C14,but it only had 1900 miles on it! ;D ;D ;D :great:
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: TimR on February 05, 2015, 04:56:03 am
Quote
In retrospect, we see a lot of people reporting they had inspections "done" at a dealer, and they were "ALL fine"... but none, I repeat NONE of those people have produced a shim map proving such, so there ya have it... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

I had my valve check  done at a dealer at 15K. I requested a map be filled out for my records and handed in a map. What I got back was not readable. It was recorded in what I think was in Greek on purpose. The mechanic reported all valve clearances were in spec. I still have the map. This winter, I'm going to another dealer and have it done for the second time. I will ask all valve clearances be set at max as much as possible and will hand them another map.  While the dealer has the bike I'm going to ask they change fork fluid and service the tripe tree bearings.

I'm gong to change the air filter before they get it though.  Still I realize I'll be spending some $ doing all the other stuff.       
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: olie on April 01, 2015, 10:11:39 pm
26k miles... see Kawasaki Manual, 2015

http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM_nv.php?view_lang=EN&spec=OC&category=MC&book_no=99986-1823&lang_code=EN&code=&nickname=&modelyear= (http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM_nv.php?view_lang=EN&spec=OC&category=MC&book_no=99986-1823&lang_code=EN&code=&nickname=&modelyear=)

Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 01, 2015, 11:05:17 pm
thx Olie
you have not been her for a while, we have a massive database, and past posts that can be accessed using search functions.

please take a moment and cruise around a bit, and see what is current.

cheers,
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Grumpy Goat on April 03, 2015, 03:39:01 am
My 2008 had its first valve check at 40,000km, and they were all in spec. Suspicious of stories involving workshops not carrying out all the maintenance, I paid an unnanounced visit to see Connie in hospital. I found the mechanic, feeler gauges in hand, rummaging around the camshafts.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: JS_racer on April 03, 2015, 09:53:47 am
My 2008 had its first valve check at 40,000km, and they were all in spec. Suspicious of stories involving workshops not carrying out all the maintenance, I paid an unnanounced visit to see Connie in hospital. I found the mechanic, feeler gauges in hand, rummaging around the camshafts.

unfortunately, i get so suspicious of posts like these, they make no sense to me. great if its true.  :truce:
at 20k miles, i had 12 out of 16 adjusted,  40k miles 4 or 6 adjusted, 80k miles about 4 or so adjusted.
seems most guys who bring their bikes to the dealer, the valves are great,  ::)  and those who have it done themselves or "the right guy" find tons that could be adjusted.  :great:
 :beerchug:
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Reza on April 03, 2015, 12:22:23 pm
My bike has done 53000kms so far (33000miles) and no valve check/adjustment was done.

We have only one dealer on our lovely/dusty island and they don't know S*$T!! So i have decided to run her till i hear of feel something is wrong.


Question: Do you hear/feel that something is wrong when the valves start getting out of spec? Will it run rougher? will it sputter? not start?
what are the symptoms of the valves being out of spec?

Your advise is much appreciated.

Best regards
Reza
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 03, 2015, 04:49:18 pm
My bike has done 53000kms so far (33000miles) and no valve check/adjustment was done.

We have only one dealer on our lovely/dusty island and they don't know S*$T!! So i have decided to run her till i hear of feel something is wrong.


Question: Do you hear/feel that something is wrong when the valves start getting out of spec? Will it run rougher? will it sputter? not start?
what are the symptoms of the valves being out of spec?

Your advise is much appreciated.

Best regards
Reza

All of the symptoms you noted above, usually followed by a subsequent and rapid explosion... and not to mention the shrapnel being ejected when a piston becomes a grenade...
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: ConcoursKZ on April 03, 2015, 05:07:32 pm
I have owned my bike for 3 years and been a member here as long. I do not remember reading about any valve issues or major engine problems. Most if not all were minor or leaks. Never a burnt valve or valve related problem. Even from members who had to adjust out of spec.  I  betting some have over 75k without a valve adjustment.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: TimR on April 03, 2015, 10:35:20 pm
Like I mentioned in my last post no change at 15K. After reading things here, I waited until 34K to check the valves again. I got a phone call today, 3 valves were out of spec. (tight) I had requested if they had to pull the cams move all the valve clearances to the middle or upper limits and then asked them  to provide me a map.

I typically have not hot rodded this bike like I do with the 900.  The C14 will break the sound barrier way to easily if you hit the red line.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: ConcoursKZ on April 04, 2015, 12:09:58 pm
Like I mentioned in my last post no change at 15K. After reading things here, I waited until 34K to check the valves again. I got a phone call today, 3 valves were out of spec. (tight) I had requested if they had to pull the cams move all the valve clearances to the middle or upper limits and then asked them  to provide me a map.

I typically have not hot rodded this bike like I do with the 900.  The C14 will break the sound barrier way to easily if you hit the red line.

What did they charge you?
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Blizzard6500 on April 04, 2015, 12:36:09 pm
My 2008 had its first valve check at 40,000km, and they were all in spec. Suspicious of stories involving workshops not carrying out all the maintenance, I paid an unnanounced visit to see Connie in hospital. I found the mechanic, feeler gauges in hand, rummaging around the camshafts.

unfortunately, i get so suspicious of posts like these, they make no sense to me. great if its true.  :truce:
at 20k miles, i had 12 out of 16 adjusted,  40k miles 4 or 6 adjusted, 80k miles about 4 or so adjusted.
seems most guys who bring their bikes to the dealer, the valves are great,  ::)  and those who have it done themselves or "the right guy" find tons that could be adjusted.  :great:
 :beerchug:
Just did my 13' at 28000km and 6 needed adjusting. I dont trust dealers,any of them, so I tackled it myself and it was a PITA but I got it done. Seems like alot of guys on here get it done by dealers and if most dont really do the job right,or at all, you would think there would be more posts on here about engine problems related to poor,or no valve adjustment,I dont recall seeing many.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: woody_nj on November 05, 2015, 06:47:28 am
Man of Blues,

In your post you write:

<<<You can ride this bike like a Banshee with hair on fire, or you can lug it around town in 6th gear at 40mph, and I'll tell you the valve issues will be identical. High rpm and low rpm lugging along at 2000 or below, do as much to cause wear and issues as the opposites.>>>

But I have seen people say:

<<<There is probably more risk from lugging the engine at low RPM than damage from high speed runs.  I believe SiSF mentioned  in one of his posts that under 3000 rpm or so the engine does not develop enough oil pressure to lubricate the main bearings properly when under heavy load (like lugging), and I believe  Fred H. has also posted about stress to the valve train at too low RPMs.  I also notice that I get much better milage  at 50 mph in 5th that I do in 6th even though the tach shows about 500 or so  more RPMs.>>>

I know you are talking about valves, and the other person is speaking about oil distribution to the engine, but I'm curious as whether riding this bike slower does or doesn't do damage to the engine.

This is my question from one of my posts:

<<<I don't know whether I read it here or on one of the other posts I have been reading on this forum, but someone raised a comment about riding the bike slower being bad for the bike.  I believe they were alluding to the fact that the engine performs better when you're really getting up on it (80 - 110 mph +), and that at lower speeds the oil doesn't perfuse well to the engine.  Is this correct?

The reason I ask is that I'm an older rider, and more inclined to be doing the speed limit, or just 5 or 10 mph above for multiple reasons (safety, tickets, economy, etc).  I do every once in a while give in to my inner self, but mostly try and abide by common sense in my ol' age.  I am drawn to the dependability and longevity of the bike, but will riding this bike 60 - 70 mph be detrimental to the bike in the long run?

Seems like a silly question, but I'm getting the idea that this bike operates only optimally when pushed hard, and that's not going to be my goal for having this bike........>>>

What's you opinion?

Thanks,
Woody
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: x9rider on November 05, 2015, 11:46:43 am
My 2008 had its first valve check at 40,000km, and they were all in spec. Suspicious of stories involving workshops not carrying out all the maintenance, I paid an unnanounced visit to see Connie in hospital. I found the mechanic, feeler gauges in hand, rummaging around the camshafts.

unfortunately, i get so suspicious of posts like these, they make no sense to me. great if its true.  :truce:
at 20k miles, i had 12 out of 16 adjusted,  40k miles 4 or 6 adjusted, 80k miles about 4 or so adjusted.
seems most guys who bring their bikes to the dealer, the valves are great,  ::)  and those who have it done themselves or "the right guy" find tons that could be adjusted.  :great:
 :beerchug:

+1 At minimum spec is still within spec to a dealer "mechanic". Would you really want to leave your bike to the next valve check if the valves are already at minimum spec? Anybody that gives a rats a*s about their bike would find this to be an unacceptable situation. The bottom line here is that if you would like it done right, YOU are the person who is going to need to do the valve check. That sounds daunting, and it is involved, but at the end of the day you know its done right. I did my valves at 28,000kms and very glad I did. valves out of spec, valves at minimum spec. It was a mess. All good now :)

There will be those people who don't have the wrenching skills to do this, so they are kind of stuck (there are step by step videos available for this), but for those who do have the skills, its a very rewarding process to get to know your bike at that level, and know that its done right.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 05, 2015, 12:18:26 pm
Man of Blues,

In your post you write:

<<<You can ride this bike like a Banshee with hair on fire, or you can lug it around town in 6th gear at 40mph, and I'll tell you the valve issues will be identical. High rpm and low rpm lugging along at 2000 or below, do as much to cause wear and issues as the opposites.>>>

But I have seen people say:

<<<There is probably more risk from lugging the engine at low RPM than damage from high speed runs.  I believe SiSF mentioned  in one of his posts that under 3000 rpm or so the engine does not develop enough oil pressure to lubricate the main bearings properly when under heavy load (like lugging), and I believe  Fred H. has also posted about stress to the valve train at too low RPMs.  I also notice that I get much better milage  at 50 mph in 5th that I do in 6th even though the tach shows about 500 or so  more RPMs.>>>

I know you are talking about valves, and the other person is speaking about oil distribution to the engine, but I'm curious as whether riding this bike slower does or doesn't do damage to the engine.

This is my question from one of my posts:

<<<I don't know whether I read it here or on one of the other posts I have been reading on this forum, but someone raised a comment about riding the bike slower being bad for the bike.  I believe they were alluding to the fact that the engine performs better when you're really getting up on it (80 - 110 mph +), and that at lower speeds the oil doesn't perfuse well to the engine.  Is this correct?

The reason I ask is that I'm an older rider, and more inclined to be doing the speed limit, or just 5 or 10 mph above for multiple reasons (safety, tickets, economy, etc).  I do every once in a while give in to my inner self, but mostly try and abide by common sense in my ol' age.  I am drawn to the dependability and longevity of the bike, but will riding this bike 60 - 70 mph be detrimental to the bike in the long run?

Seems like a silly question, but I'm getting the idea that this bike operates only optimally when pushed hard, and that's not going to be my goal for having this bike........>>>

What's you opinion?

Thanks,
Woody

  woody, I'm not MOB, but I want to answer regardless. you are masterfully conflating the issues and creating unnecessary drama for yourself. This bike is built like a tank. You must look at statements IN TOTAL, not just pieces. I wrote about the oil pressure under 3000 rpm, but I also included that this is in high load / lugging conditions. THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO THE c-14.  This is engine tech 101. This bike has a 10k redline. at 80 mph in 6th gear it's under 4000 rpm. You are using light throttle to achieve this.

   For some reason you are worried about the longevity of this engine. DON'T.  Don't do dumb stuff like click it in 6th at 2000 rpm and give it full throttle and you'll be fine. That's what the transmission shifter is for, and I'd tell you this about ANY engine, not just the 14.
  The build quality of this bike is head and shoulders above any old tech bike out there. Please stop trying to find the warts, they almost don't exist.

  Seriously, let it go. Go buy the c-14, and enjoy the heck out of it. Steve
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 05, 2015, 02:56:03 pm
to answer your question, I concur what Steve has just told you 100%.
it has always been my response, you don't have to travel 80+ mph all the time, but the bike is designed to handle that and more as a regular diet, without issue.
Now, as you note, being an older person as I am, bothe Steve and I say simply at lower speeds, don't use 6th gear..just rid it in a manner that keeps the engine at or above 3000 rpm, it likes that, and the benefits are best fuel mileage, and associated engine braking for decelleration in traffic....
lugging and chugging the bike around at 2000 rpm because you are in too tall of a gear range is not conducive to this.
Just use the transmission for what it was designed for, optimize the engine speed based on conditions.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: woody_nj on November 05, 2015, 05:12:33 pm
Thanks Steve and MOB for the clarification.  Yes, I do tend to over think and over analyze things, that's my nature, but this is a big investment and decision that I will spend a lot of time on and just want to make sure it's something that will be a perfect fit.  I just wasn't sure if it was something that needed to always be ridden hard or could be an all around bike as my needs would indicate.  I do totally understand exactly what you're describing and the clarification puts my mind at ease in purchasing it.  Thanks
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Jeff on November 05, 2015, 05:36:50 pm
Ok I will be a smartass here and bring up the manual recommended shift points.  34 mph from 5th to 6th gear?  Really?????  Why?  It's lugging the hell out of the engine!!!  Yet some on here swear by not deviating from the manual.....such as not using Rotella T6 oil cause it's not 10W40.  I'm actually just kidding...but does anyone have an explanation of why the manual shift points (and it's not just for this bike....other manufactures do the same thing) are so far off?  If you go by the km/hr and instead read it as miles/hr you would be about right, 55mph from 5th to 6th for example.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 05, 2015, 05:57:29 pm
Ok I will be a smartass here and bring up the manual recommended shift points.  34 mph from 5th to 6th gear?  Really?????  Why?  It's lugging the hell out of the engine!!!  Yet some on here swear by not deviating from the manual.....such as not using Rotella T6 oil cause it's not 10W40.  I'm actually just kidding...but does anyone have an explanation of why the manual shift points (and it's not just for this bike....other manufactures do the same thing) are so far off?  If you go by the km/hr and instead read it as miles/hr you would be about right, 55mph from 5th to 6th for example.

  you're mistaking rpm/ road speed issues with excessive throttle application. sure you can click into 6th at 2000 rpm... but tickle the throttle, just don't give it WOT. Steve
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: Don557 on November 05, 2015, 07:36:34 pm
I've only checked in on the forum infrequently the last several months, but it seems that the valve check/adjust issue is just way too frequent. And MOB, Matt, and others are are the minority fending off the naysayers.  Wasn't there just one a couple weeks back? To pay this kind of money for a great bike like the 14 and not do the maintenance just boggles the mind.  I personally like the satisfaction of knowing things are dialed in. (That's code for: dealers never touch it). 
The concept that "if I haven't read of /heard of /seen catastrophic engine failures due to not adjusting valves, so it must not be happening" is just wrongheaded IMO.  Don't check them if you so choose (at your own risk - or the next owner's) just don't try to convince me it's not necessary or prudent to do so.  It's not THAT difficult people. Just get the tools, Fred's vid and/or the Kawi shop manual, and just do it. The energy spent on this endless debate could be better spent wrenching.
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 05, 2015, 08:18:05 pm
Ok I will be a smartass here and bring up the manual recommended shift points.  34 mph from 5th to 6th gear?  Really?????  Why?  It's lugging the hell out of the engine!!!  Yet some on here swear by not deviating from the manual.....such as not using Rotella T6 oil cause it's not 10W40.  I'm actually just kidding...but does anyone have an explanation of why the manual shift points (and it's not just for this bike....other manufactures do the same thing) are so far off?  If you go by the km/hr and instead read it as miles/hr you would be about right, 55mph from 5th to 6th for example.

its kinda funny, because I've taken this bike well loaded down, and two up, many time over TWICE the maximum speed limit anywhere in the USA, and it never gets to the point id worry about the engine...
hell, take it out, and see just what speeds yo will see when you are just shy of bouncing it off the redline or rev limiter...
that said, pretty much you could safely ride this bike without ever seeing sixth, fifth, or even fourth gear..... on a road with a speed limit sign. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :great: :motonoises:
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: stevewfl on November 05, 2015, 08:25:31 pm
i worry about a fresh battery in my FOB more than my valve lash adjustments. 

>109k miles, I've had 3 checks and may not ever have another unless Steve gets bored and wants my business one day after I've done another 70 or 80 thousand miles  :beerchug:
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 05, 2015, 08:31:51 pm
i worry about a fresh battery in my FOB more than my valve lash adjustments. 

>109k miles, I've had 3 checks and may not ever have another unless Steve gets bored and wants my business one day after I've done another 70 or 80 thousand miles  :beerchug:

fob?
oh, that thing... I had mine fitted with Dilithium crystals, and implanted in my scrotum.... so I don't loose it...
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
soooo, if I ever sell this bike............
....... they will only get one fob....,
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
Post by: stevewfl on November 05, 2015, 08:32:55 pm
i worry about a fresh battery in my FOB more than my valve lash adjustments. 

>109k miles, I've had 3 checks and may not ever have another unless Steve gets bored and wants my business one day after I've done another 70 or 80 thousand miles  :beerchug:


fob?
oh, that thing... I had mine fitted with Dilithium crystals, and implanted in my scrotum.... so I don't loose it...
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
soooo, if I ever sell this bike............
....... they will only get one fob....,
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:



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