Author Topic: 24,000 mi. valve check?  (Read 10629 times)

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Offline TimR

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2015, 04:56:03 am »
Quote
In retrospect, we see a lot of people reporting they had inspections "done" at a dealer, and they were "ALL fine"... but none, I repeat NONE of those people have produced a shim map proving such, so there ya have it... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

I had my valve check  done at a dealer at 15K. I requested a map be filled out for my records and handed in a map. What I got back was not readable. It was recorded in what I think was in Greek on purpose. The mechanic reported all valve clearances were in spec. I still have the map. This winter, I'm going to another dealer and have it done for the second time. I will ask all valve clearances be set at max as much as possible and will hand them another map.  While the dealer has the bike I'm going to ask they change fork fluid and service the tripe tree bearings.

I'm gong to change the air filter before they get it though.  Still I realize I'll be spending some $ doing all the other stuff.       
Blue 1975 Z1B 900, Red 09 C14     I might not be perfect but at least I don't ride a Suzuki

Offline olie

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« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 10:33:14 pm by olie »
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2015, 11:05:17 pm »
thx Olie
you have not been her for a while, we have a massive database, and past posts that can be accessed using search functions.

please take a moment and cruise around a bit, and see what is current.

cheers,

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Offline Grumpy Goat

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2015, 03:39:01 am »
My 2008 had its first valve check at 40,000km, and they were all in spec. Suspicious of stories involving workshops not carrying out all the maintenance, I paid an unnanounced visit to see Connie in hospital. I found the mechanic, feeler gauges in hand, rummaging around the camshafts.
]}:-{>

2008 Kawasaki 1400GTR;  1986 Kawasaki 1000GTR;  1985 Kawasaki GPz900R;  1984 Kawasaki GT750;  1982 Suzuki GS650GT;  1981 Honda CX500;  1979 Kawasaki Z400;  1978 Kawasaki Z200

Offline JS_racer

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2015, 09:53:47 am »
My 2008 had its first valve check at 40,000km, and they were all in spec. Suspicious of stories involving workshops not carrying out all the maintenance, I paid an unnanounced visit to see Connie in hospital. I found the mechanic, feeler gauges in hand, rummaging around the camshafts.

unfortunately, i get so suspicious of posts like these, they make no sense to me. great if its true.  :truce:
at 20k miles, i had 12 out of 16 adjusted,  40k miles 4 or 6 adjusted, 80k miles about 4 or so adjusted.
seems most guys who bring their bikes to the dealer, the valves are great,  ::)  and those who have it done themselves or "the right guy" find tons that could be adjusted.  :great:
 :beerchug:

Offline Reza

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2015, 12:22:23 pm »
My bike has done 53000kms so far (33000miles) and no valve check/adjustment was done.

We have only one dealer on our lovely/dusty island and they don't know S*$T!! So i have decided to run her till i hear of feel something is wrong.


Question: Do you hear/feel that something is wrong when the valves start getting out of spec? Will it run rougher? will it sputter? not start?
what are the symptoms of the valves being out of spec?

Your advise is much appreciated.

Best regards
Reza

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2015, 04:49:18 pm »
My bike has done 53000kms so far (33000miles) and no valve check/adjustment was done.

We have only one dealer on our lovely/dusty island and they don't know S*$T!! So i have decided to run her till i hear of feel something is wrong.


Question: Do you hear/feel that something is wrong when the valves start getting out of spec? Will it run rougher? will it sputter? not start?
what are the symptoms of the valves being out of spec?

Your advise is much appreciated.

Best regards
Reza

All of the symptoms you noted above, usually followed by a subsequent and rapid explosion... and not to mention the shrapnel being ejected when a piston becomes a grenade...

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Offline ConcoursKZ

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2015, 05:07:32 pm »
I have owned my bike for 3 years and been a member here as long. I do not remember reading about any valve issues or major engine problems. Most if not all were minor or leaks. Never a burnt valve or valve related problem. Even from members who had to adjust out of spec.  I  betting some have over 75k without a valve adjustment.
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Offline TimR

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2015, 10:35:20 pm »
Like I mentioned in my last post no change at 15K. After reading things here, I waited until 34K to check the valves again. I got a phone call today, 3 valves were out of spec. (tight) I had requested if they had to pull the cams move all the valve clearances to the middle or upper limits and then asked them  to provide me a map.

I typically have not hot rodded this bike like I do with the 900.  The C14 will break the sound barrier way to easily if you hit the red line.
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Offline ConcoursKZ

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2015, 12:09:58 pm »
Like I mentioned in my last post no change at 15K. After reading things here, I waited until 34K to check the valves again. I got a phone call today, 3 valves were out of spec. (tight) I had requested if they had to pull the cams move all the valve clearances to the middle or upper limits and then asked them  to provide me a map.

I typically have not hot rodded this bike like I do with the 900.  The C14 will break the sound barrier way to easily if you hit the red line.

What did they charge you?
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Offline Blizzard6500

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2015, 12:36:09 pm »
My 2008 had its first valve check at 40,000km, and they were all in spec. Suspicious of stories involving workshops not carrying out all the maintenance, I paid an unnanounced visit to see Connie in hospital. I found the mechanic, feeler gauges in hand, rummaging around the camshafts.

unfortunately, i get so suspicious of posts like these, they make no sense to me. great if its true.  :truce:
at 20k miles, i had 12 out of 16 adjusted,  40k miles 4 or 6 adjusted, 80k miles about 4 or so adjusted.
seems most guys who bring their bikes to the dealer, the valves are great,  ::)  and those who have it done themselves or "the right guy" find tons that could be adjusted.  :great:
 :beerchug:
Just did my 13' at 28000km and 6 needed adjusting. I dont trust dealers,any of them, so I tackled it myself and it was a PITA but I got it done. Seems like alot of guys on here get it done by dealers and if most dont really do the job right,or at all, you would think there would be more posts on here about engine problems related to poor,or no valve adjustment,I dont recall seeing many.

Offline woody_nj

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2015, 06:47:28 am »
Man of Blues,

In your post you write:

<<<You can ride this bike like a Banshee with hair on fire, or you can lug it around town in 6th gear at 40mph, and I'll tell you the valve issues will be identical. High rpm and low rpm lugging along at 2000 or below, do as much to cause wear and issues as the opposites.>>>

But I have seen people say:

<<<There is probably more risk from lugging the engine at low RPM than damage from high speed runs.  I believe SiSF mentioned  in one of his posts that under 3000 rpm or so the engine does not develop enough oil pressure to lubricate the main bearings properly when under heavy load (like lugging), and I believe  Fred H. has also posted about stress to the valve train at too low RPMs.  I also notice that I get much better milage  at 50 mph in 5th that I do in 6th even though the tach shows about 500 or so  more RPMs.>>>

I know you are talking about valves, and the other person is speaking about oil distribution to the engine, but I'm curious as whether riding this bike slower does or doesn't do damage to the engine.

This is my question from one of my posts:

<<<I don't know whether I read it here or on one of the other posts I have been reading on this forum, but someone raised a comment about riding the bike slower being bad for the bike.  I believe they were alluding to the fact that the engine performs better when you're really getting up on it (80 - 110 mph +), and that at lower speeds the oil doesn't perfuse well to the engine.  Is this correct?

The reason I ask is that I'm an older rider, and more inclined to be doing the speed limit, or just 5 or 10 mph above for multiple reasons (safety, tickets, economy, etc).  I do every once in a while give in to my inner self, but mostly try and abide by common sense in my ol' age.  I am drawn to the dependability and longevity of the bike, but will riding this bike 60 - 70 mph be detrimental to the bike in the long run?

Seems like a silly question, but I'm getting the idea that this bike operates only optimally when pushed hard, and that's not going to be my goal for having this bike........>>>

What's you opinion?

Thanks,
Woody

Offline x9rider

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2015, 11:46:43 am »
My 2008 had its first valve check at 40,000km, and they were all in spec. Suspicious of stories involving workshops not carrying out all the maintenance, I paid an unnanounced visit to see Connie in hospital. I found the mechanic, feeler gauges in hand, rummaging around the camshafts.

unfortunately, i get so suspicious of posts like these, they make no sense to me. great if its true.  :truce:
at 20k miles, i had 12 out of 16 adjusted,  40k miles 4 or 6 adjusted, 80k miles about 4 or so adjusted.
seems most guys who bring their bikes to the dealer, the valves are great,  ::)  and those who have it done themselves or "the right guy" find tons that could be adjusted.  :great:
 :beerchug:

+1 At minimum spec is still within spec to a dealer "mechanic". Would you really want to leave your bike to the next valve check if the valves are already at minimum spec? Anybody that gives a rats a*s about their bike would find this to be an unacceptable situation. The bottom line here is that if you would like it done right, YOU are the person who is going to need to do the valve check. That sounds daunting, and it is involved, but at the end of the day you know its done right. I did my valves at 28,000kms and very glad I did. valves out of spec, valves at minimum spec. It was a mess. All good now :)

There will be those people who don't have the wrenching skills to do this, so they are kind of stuck (there are step by step videos available for this), but for those who do have the skills, its a very rewarding process to get to know your bike at that level, and know that its done right.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 11:50:17 am by x9rider »
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2015, 12:18:26 pm »
Man of Blues,

In your post you write:

<<<You can ride this bike like a Banshee with hair on fire, or you can lug it around town in 6th gear at 40mph, and I'll tell you the valve issues will be identical. High rpm and low rpm lugging along at 2000 or below, do as much to cause wear and issues as the opposites.>>>

But I have seen people say:

<<<There is probably more risk from lugging the engine at low RPM than damage from high speed runs.  I believe SiSF mentioned  in one of his posts that under 3000 rpm or so the engine does not develop enough oil pressure to lubricate the main bearings properly when under heavy load (like lugging), and I believe  Fred H. has also posted about stress to the valve train at too low RPMs.  I also notice that I get much better milage  at 50 mph in 5th that I do in 6th even though the tach shows about 500 or so  more RPMs.>>>

I know you are talking about valves, and the other person is speaking about oil distribution to the engine, but I'm curious as whether riding this bike slower does or doesn't do damage to the engine.

This is my question from one of my posts:

<<<I don't know whether I read it here or on one of the other posts I have been reading on this forum, but someone raised a comment about riding the bike slower being bad for the bike.  I believe they were alluding to the fact that the engine performs better when you're really getting up on it (80 - 110 mph +), and that at lower speeds the oil doesn't perfuse well to the engine.  Is this correct?

The reason I ask is that I'm an older rider, and more inclined to be doing the speed limit, or just 5 or 10 mph above for multiple reasons (safety, tickets, economy, etc).  I do every once in a while give in to my inner self, but mostly try and abide by common sense in my ol' age.  I am drawn to the dependability and longevity of the bike, but will riding this bike 60 - 70 mph be detrimental to the bike in the long run?

Seems like a silly question, but I'm getting the idea that this bike operates only optimally when pushed hard, and that's not going to be my goal for having this bike........>>>

What's you opinion?

Thanks,
Woody

  woody, I'm not MOB, but I want to answer regardless. you are masterfully conflating the issues and creating unnecessary drama for yourself. This bike is built like a tank. You must look at statements IN TOTAL, not just pieces. I wrote about the oil pressure under 3000 rpm, but I also included that this is in high load / lugging conditions. THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO THE c-14.  This is engine tech 101. This bike has a 10k redline. at 80 mph in 6th gear it's under 4000 rpm. You are using light throttle to achieve this.

   For some reason you are worried about the longevity of this engine. DON'T.  Don't do dumb stuff like click it in 6th at 2000 rpm and give it full throttle and you'll be fine. That's what the transmission shifter is for, and I'd tell you this about ANY engine, not just the 14.
  The build quality of this bike is head and shoulders above any old tech bike out there. Please stop trying to find the warts, they almost don't exist.

  Seriously, let it go. Go buy the c-14, and enjoy the heck out of it. Steve
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2015, 02:56:03 pm »
to answer your question, I concur what Steve has just told you 100%.
it has always been my response, you don't have to travel 80+ mph all the time, but the bike is designed to handle that and more as a regular diet, without issue.
Now, as you note, being an older person as I am, bothe Steve and I say simply at lower speeds, don't use 6th gear..just rid it in a manner that keeps the engine at or above 3000 rpm, it likes that, and the benefits are best fuel mileage, and associated engine braking for decelleration in traffic....
lugging and chugging the bike around at 2000 rpm because you are in too tall of a gear range is not conducive to this.
Just use the transmission for what it was designed for, optimize the engine speed based on conditions.

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Offline woody_nj

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2015, 05:12:33 pm »
Thanks Steve and MOB for the clarification.  Yes, I do tend to over think and over analyze things, that's my nature, but this is a big investment and decision that I will spend a lot of time on and just want to make sure it's something that will be a perfect fit.  I just wasn't sure if it was something that needed to always be ridden hard or could be an all around bike as my needs would indicate.  I do totally understand exactly what you're describing and the clarification puts my mind at ease in purchasing it.  Thanks

Offline Jeff

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2015, 05:36:50 pm »
Ok I will be a smartass here and bring up the manual recommended shift points.  34 mph from 5th to 6th gear?  Really?????  Why?  It's lugging the hell out of the engine!!!  Yet some on here swear by not deviating from the manual.....such as not using Rotella T6 oil cause it's not 10W40.  I'm actually just kidding...but does anyone have an explanation of why the manual shift points (and it's not just for this bike....other manufactures do the same thing) are so far off?  If you go by the km/hr and instead read it as miles/hr you would be about right, 55mph from 5th to 6th for example.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2015, 05:57:29 pm »
Ok I will be a smartass here and bring up the manual recommended shift points.  34 mph from 5th to 6th gear?  Really?????  Why?  It's lugging the hell out of the engine!!!  Yet some on here swear by not deviating from the manual.....such as not using Rotella T6 oil cause it's not 10W40.  I'm actually just kidding...but does anyone have an explanation of why the manual shift points (and it's not just for this bike....other manufactures do the same thing) are so far off?  If you go by the km/hr and instead read it as miles/hr you would be about right, 55mph from 5th to 6th for example.

  you're mistaking rpm/ road speed issues with excessive throttle application. sure you can click into 6th at 2000 rpm... but tickle the throttle, just don't give it WOT. Steve
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Offline Don557

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2015, 07:36:34 pm »
I've only checked in on the forum infrequently the last several months, but it seems that the valve check/adjust issue is just way too frequent. And MOB, Matt, and others are are the minority fending off the naysayers.  Wasn't there just one a couple weeks back? To pay this kind of money for a great bike like the 14 and not do the maintenance just boggles the mind.  I personally like the satisfaction of knowing things are dialed in. (That's code for: dealers never touch it). 
The concept that "if I haven't read of /heard of /seen catastrophic engine failures due to not adjusting valves, so it must not be happening" is just wrongheaded IMO.  Don't check them if you so choose (at your own risk - or the next owner's) just don't try to convince me it's not necessary or prudent to do so.  It's not THAT difficult people. Just get the tools, Fred's vid and/or the Kawi shop manual, and just do it. The energy spent on this endless debate could be better spent wrenching.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2015, 08:18:05 pm »
Ok I will be a smartass here and bring up the manual recommended shift points.  34 mph from 5th to 6th gear?  Really?????  Why?  It's lugging the hell out of the engine!!!  Yet some on here swear by not deviating from the manual.....such as not using Rotella T6 oil cause it's not 10W40.  I'm actually just kidding...but does anyone have an explanation of why the manual shift points (and it's not just for this bike....other manufactures do the same thing) are so far off?  If you go by the km/hr and instead read it as miles/hr you would be about right, 55mph from 5th to 6th for example.

its kinda funny, because I've taken this bike well loaded down, and two up, many time over TWICE the maximum speed limit anywhere in the USA, and it never gets to the point id worry about the engine...
hell, take it out, and see just what speeds yo will see when you are just shy of bouncing it off the redline or rev limiter...
that said, pretty much you could safely ride this bike without ever seeing sixth, fifth, or even fourth gear..... on a road with a speed limit sign. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :great: :motonoises:

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Offline stevewfl

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2015, 08:25:31 pm »
i worry about a fresh battery in my FOB more than my valve lash adjustments. 

>109k miles, I've had 3 checks and may not ever have another unless Steve gets bored and wants my business one day after I've done another 70 or 80 thousand miles  :beerchug:
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2015, 08:31:51 pm »
i worry about a fresh battery in my FOB more than my valve lash adjustments. 

>109k miles, I've had 3 checks and may not ever have another unless Steve gets bored and wants my business one day after I've done another 70 or 80 thousand miles  :beerchug:

fob?
oh, that thing... I had mine fitted with Dilithium crystals, and implanted in my scrotum.... so I don't loose it...
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
soooo, if I ever sell this bike............
....... they will only get one fob....,
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

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Offline stevewfl

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Re: 24,000 mi. valve check?
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2015, 08:32:55 pm »
i worry about a fresh battery in my FOB more than my valve lash adjustments. 

>109k miles, I've had 3 checks and may not ever have another unless Steve gets bored and wants my business one day after I've done another 70 or 80 thousand miles  :beerchug:


fob?
oh, that thing... I had mine fitted with Dilithium crystals, and implanted in my scrotum.... so I don't loose it...
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
soooo, if I ever sell this bike............
....... they will only get one fob....,
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:



      
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