Author Topic: A big thanks!!  (Read 684 times)

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Offline touring03

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A big thanks!!
« on: April 08, 2019, 08:31:02 pm »
What an awesome forum.  When I put the bike away for the winter last fall I noticed that I was getting pulsating in the front brake handle but only when I was lightly putting on pressure, I assumed the disks were in need of resurfacing or replacing.  My local dealer wanted $320 PER DISK!!, Partzilla quoted $280 for a pair but a lot of guys on the COG site suggested I get some acetone and steel wool and clean the disks.  So for about $7 in materials and a lot of elbow grease I did that, now no matter how soft or hard I apply the front brakes the pulsating is gone.

The knowledge and experience on this site is amazing, thanks guys, I'll put my $280 dollar savings towards fuel for my next road trip.  :beerchug:

PG.

Offline C. Moore

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2019, 09:33:05 am »
Good to hear. When my stock rotors gave up the ghost I got a set of EBC's through Murph for a reasonable price. What brand were the Partzilla rotors?  That sounds like a pretty good price.  The dealer's going to soak you every time.
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2019, 01:07:21 pm »
Does Acetone remove Brake Pad Material Transfer??

I don't remember seeing this remedy, or exactly what it fixes.

please esplain.

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Offline smithr1

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 06:05:30 pm »
My guess is a bit of oil got on his rotors and the good cleaning got it off.  If it is not warped than slipping and grabbing is the next most likely source of the feeling.
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Offline ddtmoto

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2019, 01:32:12 am »
 From my experience the issue will most likely will return. Cleaning and roughing the rotors only treated the symptoms and not the root of the issue. My OEM rotors and pads, also, weren't happy together. Cleaned and roughed my rotors many times to address the pulsing/chattering only to have the issue return again and again. Untill I changed to EBC rotors and pads. These work and work well. Zero issues after 30k plus miles.
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Online Tundra

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2019, 09:40:05 am »
I've not heard of that trick, sounds right if there may be embedded material on the rotor, or grease/oil/grime? My bike was purchased very low mileage and still under 10k and I have this pulsating front brake issue also. I just starting noticing, as I am now teaching myself to try to use the front brakes only due to my crap linked/abs 2012 brake system. The rear brakes on my bike are as useless as tits on a bull, even after dealer recall work with system bleeding. I still wasn't happy and re-bled. I can't believe Mother Kawasaki let this 2012 model reach the showroom floor with these crap brakes. I may change out rotors and pads, although have not been a fan of EBC on other bikes as they made noise and lots of brake dust.


Oh boy, I digress and ramble on...sorry touring03, at least I stayed on the original brake subject. Kind of :-[

Thanks for posting this, I for one will try it and report back, I've got nothing to loose.

Offline ghostrider990

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 12:20:27 pm »
Something else that's worth mentioning here, is the need to clean or "free-up" the rotor buttons that connect the actual rotors to the wheel.  I believe the correct term for ours is semi-floating.

I was experiencing a bit of judder under braking last summer, and realized that it was time to clean the buttons.
 @ 25K miles, with original pads and rotors.
Did this, and made the judder go away.  This sensation can be mistaken for pad material transfer (warping) on the rotors, and unnecessary and expensive rotor replacement.
(see rotor runout, and measuring rotor thickness)

The buttons need to be cleaned and "turned" every so often to remove dirt and debris that gets built up in between the metal surfaces where the rotors "float" semi-attached to the wheels, and keeps the metal "button" from moving freely between the rotor and the mount.
If these aren't free to move while under braking load, that "stickiness" can be transferred to the wheel, and through the bars - and felt as a judder, a shimmy, or simply vibration.

Easiest to do this is with an appropriately-sized bolt and nut, some brake cleaner, and patience.  See attached pic.
Place bolt through the rotor button hole, snug but don't over tighten the backing nut, and use a wrench to turn the button in the mount while lubricating and cleaning the meeting point of the two with aerosol brake cleaner. Repeat on both rotors, 7 buttons per rotor.  You will literally feel the grittiness that's between the buttons and the rotor as you turn them.  Be liberal with the brake cleaner, and you'll also see the dirt being flushed from within.  Make sure to wipe the rotor surface after you've finished all seven.

Do NOT use any kind of Oil, WD40, or products with lubricant of any type.  This will contaminate the rotor surfaces, and potentially the brake pads as well!
 
Suggest to all of you who are seeking a remedy to look into this method, as it's tried and true, and costs literally nothing.

gr




« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 12:27:32 pm by ghostrider990 »
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 01:01:44 pm »
All of this is good info!
Ghostrider, I've never heard of that idea either. Great!

I know of another Cogger with the shuddering problem. Will pass the info to him.

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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2019, 01:29:58 pm »
Picked up this procedure years ago off the Apriliaforum.

Same style of brake setup on those bikes, and it was a known issue / fix for the semi-floating rotor setups.

I've done this many many times on that bike, and this was the first time i did to the C14 last fall when i started having the judder.  It was only slight, but I knew it right away.

hope this helps anyone with similar issues.

personally, I don't really know what Acetone and Steel wool will cure except oxidization, or contamination on Stainless Rotor surfaces.  It most assuredly will NOT remove pad material transfer, but it won't HURT the rotors either.

gr
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Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2019, 11:16:57 pm »
Picked up this procedure years ago off the Apriliaforum.

Same style of brake setup on those bikes, and it was a known issue / fix for the semi-floating rotor setups.

I've done this many many times on that bike, and this was the first time i did to the C14 last fall when i started having the judder.  It was only slight, but I knew it right away.

hope this helps anyone with similar issues.

personally, I don't really know what Acetone and Steel wool will cure except oxidization, or contamination on Stainless Rotor surfaces.  It most assuredly will NOT remove pad material transfer, but it won't HURT the rotors either.

gr

been doing the same exact procedure for many years, but I use MEK, and or BrakeKleen aerosol on buttons...
I mark them as I do them, and usually do it when I'm mounting tires, so it's all away from the bike, and I don't get it on the tires as they are horizontal on my changer at that time... and I'm also cleaning the bead areas abrasively scrubbing them down anyways...

as for the rotors, Acetone alone doesn't do much... I use the MEK, and BrakeKleen on them, along with some 120 grit Emory cloth/paper, and scrub them well... the original compound of the pads on the pre 2010 models, and even the '12 model, did tend to "paste" itself on the rotors when you are doing aggressive braking, and came to a stop, and sat for a minute with the brake held on.. on the really early bikes, you could actually see "witness" marks from the migration. The new compound pads are far superior to the old ones, I am running EBC's again/still, but next go around, maybe by fall, I'll install OEM ones from the current listing (-0122 p/n iirc).. still running the OEM rotors tho, until they warp, I'm good... so far, no warp.. on my '08.

Oh, almost forgot to share; I have a bunch of old "E-Z-Out" bolt removers, some have a squared "shank", and one I use, is perfect for "rotating the buttons"... I don't pound it into the hole, just jamb it in and twist with a wrench.. very quick, and much faster and easier than using the 1/4" bolt/nut/washer thingy do.. Last time I did them, I chucked the tool in my drill, and spun and cleaned all of them in like 10 minutes...  :) ;)

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 09:27:52 am »
Something else that's worth mentioning here, is the need to clean or "free-up" the rotor buttons that connect the actual rotors to the wheel.  I believe the correct term for ours is semi-floating.

I was experiencing a bit of judder under braking last summer, and realized that it was time to clean the buttons.
 @ 25K miles, with original pads and rotors.
Did this, and made the judder go away.  This sensation can be mistaken for pad material transfer (warping) on the rotors, and unnecessary and expensive rotor replacement.
(see rotor runout, and measuring rotor thickness)

The buttons need to be cleaned and "turned" every so often to remove dirt and debris that gets built up in between the metal surfaces where the rotors "float" semi-attached to the wheels, and keeps the metal "button" from moving freely between the rotor and the mount.
If these aren't free to move while under braking load, that "stickiness" can be transferred to the wheel, and through the bars - and felt as a judder, a shimmy, or simply vibration.

Easiest to do this is with an appropriately-sized bolt and nut, some brake cleaner, and patience.  See attached pic.
Place bolt through the rotor button hole, snug but don't over tighten the backing nut, and use a wrench to turn the button in the mount while lubricating and cleaning the meeting point of the two with aerosol brake cleaner. Repeat on both rotors, 7 buttons per rotor.  You will literally feel the grittiness that's between the buttons and the rotor as you turn them.  Be liberal with the brake cleaner, and you'll also see the dirt being flushed from within.  Make sure to wipe the rotor surface after you've finished all seven.

Do NOT use any kind of Oil, WD40, or products with lubricant of any type.  This will contaminate the rotor surfaces, and potentially the brake pads as well!
 
Suggest to all of you who are seeking a remedy to look into this method, as it's tried and true, and costs literally nothing.

gr


Ghostrider990,

Thanks for the taking the time to post that with pics...something I've overlooked thinking "all good" with low miles. Fingers crossed hoping a simple fix!

Offline ghostrider990

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2019, 03:19:08 pm »
Glad to help!  :great: :beerchug:

gr
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Offline MtnRider

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Re: A big thanks!!
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 02:10:42 pm »
I did this yesterday. I made a "bib" to keep from spraying the wheel & tire by putting a white plastic trash bag between the rotor and wheel then taped it to the front and rear ends of the fender. I put a 6mm cap head bolt in the buttons from the wheel side then used a 1/4" impact driver to tighten the nut & turn the button. Worked out well, it was self-regulating on the torque as the button rotated as soon as the nut was snug enough (did not use an allen wrench to hold the bolt). I was very light on the  trigger, I did not "spin" the buttons just made them rotate slowly. The white color of the bag was accidental, just what we had, but it worked out as I could see all the crud that came out the buttons. An amazing amount of black crap came out of those buttons and the bike has less then 13k miles on it!

Before doing this if I came to a stop with a little authority using just the front brake there's been a slight shudder as I get below 5 MPH. That seemed to be gone on the commute this morning although I didn't stop very hard. I'll have to test it better on the way home.

Thanks for the reminder to do this GR.   :beerchug:
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 02:14:38 pm by MtnRider »
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It works ok, I'm going to improve it. It works better, I'm going to improve it. It works great, I'm going to imp.... Sh*t, I broke it!!!