Author Topic: Acceleration problem-getting worse  (Read 592 times)

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Offline Ronnie

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Acceleration problem-getting worse
« on: October 24, 2017, 12:22:01 pm »
2012 C14 with 29k miles on the clock and Steve's decel tune.  A few thousand miles ago, I started occasionally noticing a slight surge when accelerating.  Not terrible and very seldom, but enough for me to notice.  I first thought maybe the traction control was kicking in due to slick spots on the road I couldn't see.  As it got to be more often and more pronounced, I pinpointed it to only doing it when low on fuel(less than a gallon or gallon and a half).  When it went in for a service last month, they checked everything and couldn't find a problem(Like a dummy I had filled it up with gas a couple of days before).  Coming home Sunday from my place in the mountains, it started doing it very badly.  Any throttle input more than probably 20% and it falls on it's face above 3 or 4k RPMs.  This was with at least half a tank of 93 octane still in it.  I'm leaning towards a fueling problem like maybe a clogged fuel filter or water in the tank???  It acts like a fueling problem, but wanted to get you guys/gals opinion on if these bikes can exhibit symptoms of a fueling problem when it's actually a spark problem??  It's not a dead miss and it never stumbles, just falls on it's face like it's not getting fuel.  Any guidance or tips would be appreciated.  Also, it has the original battery still.  It shows 13.7 V when keyed on before cranking and then goes up to 14.6 or 14.7 after a few seconds of idling.  Could dirty terminals/ground wire connection cause this?  I'm hoping to work on it this Saturday.  Thanks in advance!
Ronnie

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Offline Baggerjohn

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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 12:43:33 pm »
Fuel filter is the first thing I'd check.

Air filter is the second.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 01:24:56 pm »
   I don't know if the c-14 will suffer this, but the c-10 will exhibit the exact same issues when the gas cap isn't venting and the tank develops vacuum. Not sure on the 14 because it has a fuel pump and not gravity fed, but I'm sure at some point vacuum would reduce fuel pressure. You can diagnose by leaving a spare key in the gas cap and then opening the cap when the problem presents itself during a ride. If the starvation goes away, you have your culprit. If you stop and open the cap and here a "woosh" of air filling the tank, then you know the cap isn't venting.

  We've also seen clogged fuel filters and failing fuel pumps exhibit the same issues.

HTH, Steve
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 03:59:29 pm »
After getting to and cleaning the fuel filter on my 2010 with 50k I am SURE any bike with a similar life will need the filter cleaned or replaced.   NASTY!

Of course the flip side of this is being sure your air filter is clean also.
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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 06:11:56 pm »
2012 C14 with 29k miles on the clock and Steve's decel tune.  A few thousand miles ago, I started occasionally noticing a slight surge when accelerating.  Not terrible and very seldom, but enough for me to notice.  I first thought maybe the traction control was kicking in due to slick spots on the road I couldn't see.  As it got to be more often and more pronounced, I pinpointed it to only doing it when low on fuel(less than a gallon or gallon and a half).  When it went in for a service last month, they checked everything and couldn't find a problem(Like a dummy I had filled it up with gas a couple of days before).  Coming home Sunday from my place in the mountains, it started doing it very badly.  Any throttle input more than probably 20% and it falls on it's face above 3 or 4k RPMs.  This was with at least half a tank of 93 octane still in it.  I'm leaning towards a fueling problem like maybe a clogged fuel filter or water in the tank???  It acts like a fueling problem, but wanted to get you guys/gals opinion on if these bikes can exhibit symptoms of a fueling problem when it's actually a spark problem??  It's not a dead miss and it never stumbles, just falls on it's face like it's not getting fuel.  Any guidance or tips would be appreciated.  Also, it has the original battery still.  It shows 13.7 V when keyed on before cranking and then goes up to 14.6 or 14.7 after a few seconds of idling.  Could dirty terminals/ground wire connection cause this?  I'm hoping to work on it this Saturday.  Thanks in advance!

I tend to think it may be a case of the dirty fuel filter also, from your description and time lapse on performance degradation....
Meaning since it first appeared, it continually got worse...
As this system is pump fed, as Steve notes, fuel line clogs are really not an issue, as with water, unless a large amount is present... and at that point, the filter itself will be the point of failure...
As these tanks are a pain to drain, siphoning out the fuel down to less than a gallon is necessary, as fuel doesn't "drain" out of the line as it would on a gravity fed bike.. I have pulled and inspected my pump/filter assembly twice since '07, with about one gallon in it, and turned almost vertical to access the pump plate fro removal, and promptly dumping the remainder into a can using a large funnel... outdoors... for pump exam and to wipe out the tank inside...
Next time I pull my tank, I will be replafing the filter, just on general principle, as I don't want to have it occurr on a road trip...

Id start looking there...

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline Tinsailor

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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 06:56:50 pm »
Yours is acting a lot like mine was and turned out to be a bad fuel pump. Inspect the filter first but no more mileage than you’ve got, that’s probably not it.

Offline NYbiomed

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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 07:02:41 pm »
I think it's wise to ALWAYS check/clean the grounds first- it's easy and costs nothing, just do it right and use a dremel tool with a wire brush and apply dielectric grease afterwards to prevent future contamination/corrosion. I have a spare fuel pump from my VVT actuator debacle I can send you for diagnostic purposes if you want- PM me.

 :great:
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1983 Honda CB1000 Custom
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Offline soonerone

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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 08:56:36 pm »
Had the same thing happen on my '08 this summer at the National's.  It started this suddenly while we were out riding 2 up with about 1/2 tank of fuel.  Stopped and filled up and the problem went away. Anyway, long story short,  I apparently had picked up some bad gas on the last fill up.  After limping home and removing the pump/fuel filter, I found bits of rubber and metal shavings in the tank. New filter and a good cleaning fixed everything. Running great now.

J
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Offline BDF

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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 09:18:42 pm »
Yeah, sounds like fuel delivery, either a bad fuel pump or clogged fuel filter, the second one being more likely.

The fuel pump is not made to be serviceable and meant to be treated as an entire unit; Kawasaki's way to deal with this is to just change out the fuel pump a**'y, which contains both the fuel pump and filter, as well as the regulator. That said, the fuel pump a**'y is pretty easy to take apart and change the filter or just install a new one, and there are threads on exactly how to do that as well as what the part number for a new filter is (the filter is not sold for a C-14 but rather a water vehicle but it is the same one).

But before replacing anything, you should do a volume test on the pump. The FSM states the pump should deliver a minimum of 2.26 US Fl. Oz. in 3 seconds. If your pump is not delivering enough fuel to allow the engine to run correctly, it will fail this test by a large amount.

The pump is fairly easy to R&R but you will have to drain (mostly) the tank, remove the tank and turn it upside down to get at the pump. From there it is just a matter of unbolting the pump and removing it; it uses a large O- ring to seal so you will not have to buy any gasket or seal beforehand.

Best of luck with this.

Brian

2012 C14 with 29k miles on the clock and Steve's decel tune.  A few thousand miles ago, I started occasionally noticing a slight surge when accelerating.  Not terrible and very seldom, but enough for me to notice.  I first thought maybe the traction control was kicking in due to slick spots on the road I couldn't see.  As it got to be more often and more pronounced, I pinpointed it to only doing it when low on fuel(less than a gallon or gallon and a half).  When it went in for a service last month, they checked everything and couldn't find a problem(Like a dummy I had filled it up with gas a couple of days before).  Coming home Sunday from my place in the mountains, it started doing it very badly.  Any throttle input more than probably 20% and it falls on it's face above 3 or 4k RPMs.  This was with at least half a tank of 93 octane still in it.  I'm leaning towards a fueling problem like maybe a clogged fuel filter or water in the tank???  It acts like a fueling problem, but wanted to get you guys/gals opinion on if these bikes can exhibit symptoms of a fueling problem when it's actually a spark problem??  It's not a dead miss and it never stumbles, just falls on it's face like it's not getting fuel.  Any guidance or tips would be appreciated.  Also, it has the original battery still.  It shows 13.7 V when keyed on before cranking and then goes up to 14.6 or 14.7 after a few seconds of idling.  Could dirty terminals/ground wire connection cause this?  I'm hoping to work on it this Saturday.  Thanks in advance!
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Acceleration problem-getting worse
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 11:56:12 am »
Good Thread, and good responses.

Waiting to see what he finds.   :popcorncouple:
 
gr
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