Author Topic: Another Rostra wiring question...  (Read 2100 times)

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Offline RodneyW

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Another Rostra wiring question...
« on: February 29, 2016, 09:26:58 pm »
I've finished the installation, and it went smoothly....except....I cannot seem to get the darn thing into the diagnostic mode.  Or maybe it is in diagnostic mode but there is another issue? I do not want to button everything up until I can do this.  I've followed Brian's instructions, at least that was my intent, but now I'm kinda stumped.  Switch powers up as it should, brake relay clicks, "open" type switch relay also clicks.  When I attempt to put it into diagnostic mode, the red led goes out, as I think it should, but it does not come on when the brakes are engaged.  It does not come on when resume/accel button is pressed either.  Any insight would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 02:26:03 pm by RodneyW »

Offline SWOJO95

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 10:14:41 pm »
If I remember correctly, you need to leave one of the wire connections unattached for running the diagnostic check. I believe it was the clutch connection, but you may want to double check Brian's instructions or you may have already done this?

Offline Sailor Rich

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2016, 10:16:35 pm »
That's correct the clutch wire is the last connection after running the diagnostics.

Offline RodneyW

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 10:35:42 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I have left the clutch wire off for now.  I should have mentioned that in my initial post.

Offline Zarticus

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 11:17:39 pm »
I had the same problem & never could get it into diagnostic mode, I took it for a test ride anyway per Brians suggestion & it worked. Some units just won't go into diagnostic mode.
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Offline RodneyW

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 11:21:05 pm »
That is funny Zarticus, since I have been wondering if it might actually be working.  I guess that I can put enough of it back together for a test ride.  I've called Rosta, but I guess you just leave a message and they call back at some point later?  I was going to tell them that I was installing on something other than a bike so they might give me support.

Offline Zarticus

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 11:43:15 pm »
I zip tied some of the loose crap down & took her for a ride naked "Bike, Not me!!".  :beerchug:
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Offline Sailor_chic

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 11:47:37 pm »
When installed mine, it was the same thing. It wouldnt go into diagnostic mode. So I toolk it for a short ride to test the engagement, and it worked!
Nicole     Port St Lucie, FL.
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 03:24:12 am »
Hmmm....that's disconcerting. :o

Hate to put the tupperware back on, only to find that the Rostra doesn't work?!

Yikes.
..."I like to keep this handy -- for Close Encounters"...

Offline Sailor Rich

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 11:43:51 am »
It was in 2008 when I did my install and after reading others had an issue with entering diagnostic mode I remember I did as well.
I also recall the method to finally get there was different than was listed. But was it different from Brian's? Try the ones listed in the Rostra guide for both NC and NO switches and see if it makes a difference.

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2016, 11:52:47 am »
All,
In order to enter diagnostic mode you have to push 2 buttons while powering up not one. The directions are WRONG! Now if I could remember which two it was!  :-[  It was the one the directions listed and one more simultaneously. Then and only then will it give you diagnostic mode.
Matt
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Offline Zarticus

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2016, 11:56:20 am »
Hmmm....that's disconcerting. :o

Hate to put the tupperware back on, only to find that the Rostra doesn't work?!

Yikes.
ride it without the Tupperware just long enough to see if the cruise works.
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Offline RodneyW

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Re: Another Rosta wiring question...
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2016, 02:22:17 pm »
Went for a test ride, and it did not go well.  System would not engage (including no "engaged" light).  I guess I have something wrong somewhere.  Have I mentioned that I HATE electrical troubleshooting?   :'(  I think I would rather attempt do-it-yourself root canal therapy.

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2016, 04:28:08 pm »
 If you are using a 250-3592 or 250-3593 dash mount     
Cruise Control Switch,
turn the ignition switch to the ON position and turn key on (apply power)
hold the RESUME/ACCEL  button own while you turn the Cruise Control Switch to the ON position.)
         The Diagnostics LED should be flashing.
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Offline RodneyW

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 05:20:01 pm »
Mike-  I have the 250-3592 switch.

When I follow your directions, I get a steady red LED. That red LED does not change with the brakes applied, or when any of the cruise buttons are depressed.  It does go out if I turn the cruise switch off.

Offline Sailor_chic

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2016, 05:56:57 pm »
I would check your relays that are hooked into the brake circuit. You should hear the operating when you activate either brake. Also check your connection to the clutch wire and make sure this is proper. (Brown wire on bike) Then I would check for voltage at the VSS . When you spin your wheel, your multimeter will give you a reading.
Nicole     Port St Lucie, FL.
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Offline Sailor Rich

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2016, 09:37:14 pm »
I also remembering Brian telling me to check the switch itself when I had problems and I pulled the cover and button pad and cleaned it.
It was my issue.

Offline RodneyW

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2016, 10:03:49 pm »
Thank you all for the ideas.  I ended up calling Rostra, and they said that I was using the wrong relays.  I had used two 4 pin relays that I already had on hand.  They said that I needed the 5 pin ones, because the resistance was different.  After replacing, I was able to get into diagnostic mode, and everything checked out.

I took it for a test ride, and it engaged.  All seemed fine, except that when I tried to engage the second time it did not work.  I fiddled with the on/off switch, and finally got it to engage again.  I could not get it to engage a third time.  I know it sounds like a loose connection, but I would doubt if that were the issue, as I had already gone over everything with a fine tooth comb several times.  Any other ideas?

Offline Sailor Rich

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2016, 12:46:52 am »
my switch was a cause  a few times to the point I was going to order a new one. Cleaning the contact areas worked. Also once after the brake recall the brake light switch stuck on not letting it engage.

Offline RodneyW

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2016, 01:38:03 am »
Rich- I cleaned the contacts.

I was able to go for a nice long test ride.  The symptoms are actually very consistent.

The cruise will engage, but it must be turned off and on again each time you want to set it.  It will accelerate, and decelerate, but if you pull the clutch or hit a brake you must turn it off, then back on.  And there is a delay of several seconds once you turn it back on before it will engage.  The resume feature does not work at all.

I guess I will call Rostra again tomorrow.  They were pretty helpful to this point. 

I'm kinda stumped.

The only other thing was that it is super herky-jerky below 60.  I've had the ccs-100 and another rostra before, and they were not like that at all.  At 50, it is about a 5mph up and down roller coaster.  On the interstate, at 75, it was super smooth, pretty much perfect.   I know that this is primarily what it is for, but something does not seem quite right. 

Offline Zarticus

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2016, 03:56:50 am »
Attaching the cable as far to the end of the throttle plate helps make it much smoother. I extended the throttle plate by 1 1/2" & all is smooth as butter. Even at 30 mph there is NO herky-jerky !!  :beerchug:
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Offline RodneyW

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2016, 04:42:06 am »
Something is just not right.  My cable is attached on the very end, it would not be possible to go any further.  It will not even engage until about 50.  Hoping for some compassion from Rostra tomorrow!

Offline Sailor Rich

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2016, 12:59:20 pm »
Heres a symptom I had before finally replacing the switch. All the functions  power, set, resume , front brake rear brake clutch would work or disengage the unit.

When I would engage the cruise and press the off button I believed it had disengaged due to the power light going out. I found out different when I hit the off ramp it still held speed. Hello kill switch. I tested it in a safe area of road and found it was an intermittent issue. If I powered on and off a second time it would disengaged. A new switch solved the problem.

Just my experience.

I hope they can help you out.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 01:06:34 pm by Sailor Rich »

Offline C14lvr

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2016, 02:37:58 pm »
RodneyW-

The guys are almost correct concerning the procedure for entering Rostra diagnosric mode...

1) make sure NSS (clutch wire) (light green to Rostra servo) is disconnected.
2) While holding down the Rostra switches "ON" button AND the "Resume/Accel buttons SIMULTAINEOUSLY first, turn on bike's ignition switch.

This places the Rostra in diagnostic mode.

While looking inside the servo (dip switch area,) when any button is pressed on the switch, the red LED should light up.
When applying either brake, the LED should light up.
While rolling the rear wheel, the LED should flash.

If the LED does not flash when the rear wheel is rolled, means a VSS or VSS wiring problem.
If any other checks fail, (meaning some work, some do not,) means wiring or connection problem.

Usually, if you don't get an "engaged" light when attempting to arm the system at speeds over 33 mph, it means the following; incorrect wiring, incorrect relay type, or no VSS input into the Rostra/ incorrect dip switch settings.

I recommend making all 12 V. (+) connections at one point. On the C14- make these at switched ignition wire point found under the large boot, top front LH side, per BDF picture tutorial.

I recommend ALL 12V. (-) connections be made together, and as close to the battery (-) post or (-)battery cable frame connection point as possible. Do not attach multiple grounds to individual multiple frame points! This can be an issue, and a nightmare later to find or diagnose.

Make sure you start with the following dip switch settings, (per BDF tutorial);
0=OFF
1=ON
001111000110

Also, attach the throttle cable to the bikes' throttle cam according to BDF's picture tutorial, ran vertically.
Leave 1/16th or so slack. Double check cable routing, and cable bracket attachment you've made... little or no movement in bracket. These things help with surge issues. Excessive slack will cause additional roll up time by the servo or slow engagement, sometimes surging.

When first turning on the system, you'll have to give it a few seconds before setting the cruise before it will arm. This is normal.

Also: Confirm you haven't gotten mixed up on the 2 green wires! One is dark green (Set/Coast from servo to switch) and light green (NSS/ Clutch switch.) This has been known to happen before. The light green NSS /clutch wire can be overlooked, too! It's short, and you have to sometimes dig it out of the Rostra harness to find it! Trace it as it leaves the servo connector, and you'll find it. Get these 2 wires crossed, nothing works right!

Even though both 12V. relays are the same MU-141's, they wire differently. 1 is for brake (Rostra On/Off) and 1 is for the "engaged" light on the switch 250-3592.

While the system will work fine using a 250-3593 switch (no "engaged" light), I prefer to use the 250-3592 w/ the light and relay setup. Why? Not only is it a visual aid, should the system fail to engage, it will also quickly tell you whether the problem is ELECTRICAL or MECHANICAL... a big plus. No light? Electrical! Light, but doesn't work? Mechanical.

If you, (or anyone else) would like a copy of my wiring schematic I've drawn, please PM me your email address, and I will forward you a copy.

I have photo edited it, and I have it in Photobucket. But, I have noticed when I try to attach it here from PB, it's not full size, and when you attempt to blow it up, it gets blurry.

If I send it in an email, it should arrive to you full sized, and clear.

One last thing; I've spoken with Rostra. In the past, while trying to troubleshoot a system, I suspected I had received a faulty servo replacement unit. It wasn't. They have assured me EVERY unit is triple checked for function before it leaves their facility.

Hope this helps! :beerchug:
Bob
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 03:01:06 pm by C14lvr »
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In the warden's words from Cool Hand Luke;
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Offline C14lvr

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Re: Another Rostra wiring question...
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2016, 03:51:07 pm »
Another common problem that causes system not to work...

If you purchase your Rostra from Murph'skits, you order the MU-141 relay(s), and you wire them according to the schematic I have, the booklet, or BDF's tutorial, they'll work fine. These are N/C relays.
This means pins 30 and 87A are closed at rest, circuit completed. 87 is unused (for the brake relay), open, and only closes if the relay is energized.

For use with the "engaged light", the pins between 30 and 87 are open (light off normally) and closed between 30 and 87A (unused.) Once the relay is energized, pins 30 to 87 close, and pins 30 to 87A open.
Make sense?


If you buy your relays from another source, say most auto parts stores...
These are usually N/O types! They can still be used, but you must switch around your wiring a bit, because they will work the opposite way from the MU-141 N/C type.
 
For the brake relay;
Remove the ground wire from 87A, and move it to 87.

For the "engaged light relay;
Remove the pink wire (from the control switch) from 87, and move it to 87A.

Confirm all this, first, using a continuity tester.

Been there, done that! It can be confusing.
Bob
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 04:32:20 pm by C14lvr »
2011 C14 ABS (current bike)
1982 Yamaha XJ1100J (sold)
1979 Yamaha XS11 (3200 original miles)
In the warden's words from Cool Hand Luke;
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."