Author Topic: Bike is dead  (Read 702 times)

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Offline orangewingnut

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Bike is dead
« on: July 30, 2019, 04:29:25 pm »
  2011 Concours. After 33,000 trouble free miles, this occurred. Yesterday I was on the second to last run at a track day in south jersey. I was coming out of a turn and had just gotten upright and the bike died. Thankfully, no one was close to me and I was able to pull off into the grass. No lights, no instruments....nothing. Bike got towed into the pit area and a trackside mechanic tried to diagnose the problem. Fuses and battery were fine. The stove key wouldn't turn at first and then was able to move, but I didn't hear the 'click' when I pushed it in to turn it and it then moved freely and I was able to turn it past it's last position. Had the bike towed to a local dealer using the  extended warranty and I am now waiting for them to take a look. Does this scenario sound familiar to anyone?

Thanks,
Bill

Offline LSGiant

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2019, 04:37:45 pm »
If I remember correctly there is a separate main fuse. Was that one checked. It is not located by the other fuses.
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Offline KansasMarine87

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2019, 05:30:14 pm »
Sounds like another KiPass issue! Did you try a rubber mallet to the right side? Or unhooking the wire harness under the left side fairing? That's how I fixed mine when it 'died'.
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Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2019, 05:31:36 pm »
"Fuses and battery were fine", 9 out of 10 times I hear this I ask.... Did you physically remove the battery, and abrasively clean all of the wire terminations after removing them, along with the frame grounding point, and the actual terminals on the battery..?"

this is a common fault, everyone "looks" and some even slap a wrench on and see if they are tight.... but the connection is still bad..

Even most "techs" at dealerships skip this important part of diagnosis.. sad but true...

The MAIN fuse is located in behind the battery, in that "cave", it sits on top of the main relay, and should be inspected, takes small hands, and some tongue biting to get it out, but sometimes they pop.. especially when some new thing was added to a bike.. that was not mentioned.

best of luck,

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Offline orangewingnut

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2019, 07:39:15 pm »
Thanks for the replies!  What would cause the main fuse to 'POP'?  I haven't added any new accessories recently. Could this be a heat related issue? It was hot as balls at the track yesterday. The loose/corroded battery terminal/connections wouldn't effect the wonky Kipass stove key, would it?

Bill

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2019, 08:17:58 pm »
Thanks for the replies!  What would cause the main fuse to 'POP'?  I haven't added any new accessories recently. Could this be a heat related issue? It was hot as balls at the track yesterday. The loose/corroded battery terminal/connections wouldn't effect the wonky Kipass stove key, would it?

Bill

loose cables would surely effect this bike in that manner, and if loose enough, could cause a fuse to pop on startup...
 you never mentioned anything about add on's, so what can we say/ask?
you note its a 2011, is this the original battery? or a replacement, how old?

batteries can fail internally, and when they do, depending on which end of the "tie bars" between the cells breaks, can cause over or under current issues, again, this can effect the startup. Of all the bikes I've owned, this bike is the most critical bike regarding proper battery and power distribution... simply everything requires consistent power to operate the systems. If an internal battery failure occurs, between the first 2 cells, all the power from the alternator is trying to go thru the battery, and can wreak havoc... when the battery can only take a 2 volt load... the battery itself, acts as a current "buffer zone" in the big picture of the charging system. When a bike is "cold", you may never be able to sense a break in the internals of the Batt, but when hot, and demanded to "conduct", the failure shows up.. that's why we "load test" fully charged batteries, to see if they break down under load.

also, don't mistake what we call "poor" connections, by the appearance, they don't "show corrosion"... a poor connection is caused by a microscopic resistive layer of invisible "oxide", between the terminal and the battery.. you can't see it... face it when a tin plated copper connector, is clamped to a tin/lead terminal, galvanic action always occurrs, and only becomes worse when current is being "pulled thru" that connection.

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Offline BDF

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2019, 08:22:41 pm »
Agreed- opening the main fuse will kill the bike instantly.

It cannot be a KiPass issue because KiPass does not have any ability to stop a running bike, only prevent a stopped bike from staring.

Lots of people miss the main fuse as it is not in any of the three fuse boxes under the saddle. It is a 30 amp fuse located behind the battery, right next to the starter relay. There is also a spare located right next to it. This would be the first place I would look having a C-14 suddenly go 'dead'.

This is my free, WAG: a shorted battery would cause excessive charging current and could open the main fuse. Running fast would give you the full charging rate and lead- acid batteries are not reliable in excessive heat; if you battery is more than a couple of years old, I would suggest having it load- tested and watching the resting voltage (at least 20 minutes after running the bike or charging the battery) for a low reading. The main fuse is basically between the battery and everything else in the electrical circuits on the bike so to open it, more than 30 amps must flow to or from the battery. When running, I would first assume the current was flowing into the battery from the charging system and that should never go over 30 amps so again, only a defective battery would cause it, at least at first glance.

Best of luck.

Brian

If I remember correctly there is a separate main fuse. Was that one checked. It is not located by the other fuses.
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Offline orangewingnut

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2019, 08:53:00 pm »
Again, thanks for the information!
The battery is 2 years old and always kept on a maintainer when not in use. The bike is at a dealer near the track and is not my normal mechanic so I'm not sure of their level of expertise. Given your responses, at least I may be able to point them in a direction if they can't figure it out.

Bill

Offline TimR

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Offline Bud

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2019, 08:42:46 am »
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2019, 09:14:20 am »
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline Phil

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2019, 03:35:36 pm »
I found this interesting:   http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/unusual-problem-c14-motor-quit-now-diagnosed-and-repaired/msg674265/#msg674265

If he has the same problem, it would be easy enough to find out.


Except that in this case, the OP has no lights, and no instruments, nothing. In the case linked, they were able to try to start, the engine turned over, but didn't start. It cannot be the same thing. I am betting on a shorted battery, a blown main fuse, or a bad ground.

Offline TimR

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2019, 04:52:21 pm »
Yeah, good catch. I wasn't paying attention I guess.
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Offline orangewingnut

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2019, 03:01:22 pm »
Update:  one of the wires from an accessory got pinched and blew the main fuse. Looks like it's time for a fuse block.

Bill

Offline Phil

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2019, 05:20:38 pm »
Update:  one of the wires from an accessory got pinched and blew the main fuse. Looks like it's time for a fuse block.

Bill

Glad you found it. Yeah, a fuse block would be a good idea.  :beerchug: