Author Topic: braided lines with ABS ??  (Read 7276 times)

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Offline ddub

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braided lines with ABS ??
« on: July 27, 2012, 11:41:55 am »
Wondering if anyone has done this and if there is any noticeable difference ?

Offline Boomer

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 12:07:01 pm »
The hoses will have no effect on the braking.
If yer doing it for cosmetic reasons go for it.
If you expect a performance gain, ain't gonna happen.
Maybe in a few years when the OEM rubber hoses have gotten soft it will be worth it.
George "Boomer" Garratt
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Offline TGE

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 12:47:09 pm »
While I still have the OEM brake lines on my '08, I'm a bit surprised at Boomer's comments. Is that a testimony that is based on your experience? In the performance riding world, upgrading to stainless steel lines is one of the first upgrades on just about any motorcycle, and typically results in a measurable improvement of brake performance at the lever (i.e., the stainless steel lines are rigid, and thus alleviate some of the spongy lever feel that is typical for rubber brake lines). Personally, I have always had a very positive experience with upgrading to stainless steel lines. That said, the C-14 OEM brakes are very good, and thus do not make that upgrade an immediate priority to me.
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Offline oldnslo_MO

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 01:21:48 pm »
I upgraded to braided steel lines soon after buying my new 09 c14. I noticed a marked difference in feedback and response, with all the spongy feeling having disappeared.Same for clutch. I also have used braided line on my 1975 H1, with similar results. The stock lines are OK, until you feel the difference with braided, at least that's my experience.  :)
happy trails  2016 concours14,2010 bmw k1300ggt, 2015 bmw r1200rt, 09 concours14, 75 kawasaki H1   500cc*79 triumph bonneville750* 2 each  82su zuki gs1100e* 05 yamaha fz1 1100* 03 yamaha fz1 1100*01 goldwing 1800*97 goldwing 1500* 93 goldwing 1500* 80 kawasaki vulcan 1500*76 kawasaki kz650* 66 triumph Bonneville 650* 68 triumph tr 650* 72 norton commando750* 70 bsa rocket III 750*  68 hon cb350* 66 hon cb305*1960 BSA golden flash 500cc*1950 cushman

Offline MidlifeCrisis

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 01:22:09 pm »
I bought a Galfer kit for my ABS '09 from another gentleman here a while back.  Comes with a plethora of various hoses.  The ABS version has a lot of segments.  Looks like a pretty involved job, and might be a bit tricky to bleed the lines afterwards.  Have not gotten around to it yet.  Too many bikes, too little time. :(

As far as "performance gains", the same can be expected of every other brake/clutch hose replacement.  Whether the mod is worth your time/expense is up to your own judgement.  If you are completely happy with the way it works now, why bother with it?

I bought it mostly because it was a good deal.  If I get a firmer feel out of the brake/clutch levers, then great.  If not,  I know most mfrs recommend rubber hoses be replaced after a few yrs anyhow, so I would just consider it as part of regular maintenance.
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Offline ddub

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 01:33:36 pm »
Thanks for these replies !! . I to like many have a few bikes and all have been changed over to braided lines . The part I'm most interested in is doing it on the ABS version of this bike , I think it could make for better feedback and performance ? but just not sure if the ABS would just compensate and the feeling would be the same ??? , either way though it would look better and be more durable in the future ?

Offline ProfessorKonk

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 02:56:05 pm »
I've replaced all the lines on my '11 ABS... the stock lines are pretty good, the Galfers are better if only by a bit. The Galfers will not be changing their response much - if at all - over time. And they look great too!

Here are some pix of my install details... may be useful later when you do yours:
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,33063.msg165904.html#msg165904
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,33063.msg165993.html#msg165993

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Offline Jorge

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 03:49:10 pm »
hi Ddub,
I have  a C10, and when I installed the stainless steel braided lines, there was a noticeable improvement in how solid the brake lever felt (I only did front brakes). On an ABS bike, you will feel the same improvement since the ABS should do nothing until it detects a wheel locking up.
I would expect that ABS performance would improve, since ABS system reaction would be faster. With stock lines, the system would need to release more fluid to prevent skidding, since the "sponginess" of the lines would act like a very small pressure reservoir. With the steel braided lines, there would be less fluid released to drop the pressure at the caliper(s) for the same effect. I'm sure Kawasaki has accounted for the stock lines, but there might be an improvement with the steel braided lines (BTW, all lines are braided, stocks with Nylon fibers or something similar, but not as stiff as the steel braiding).
I'd go for it. Even if ABS is not improved at all, you will still have the improved feel & control in normal braking.
Jorge

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 05:49:52 pm »
Our brakes are pretty damn good (aside from the bad linking system on the 10+)  but I don't know that steel lines would make much of a difference...  I've never noticed the hoses swelling and the ABS system does include hardline at spots..

For the poster who noticed less sponginess, I suspect your brakes had air in the system and it got bled out when you installed the cables... but that is just my belief :)
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Offline spadge

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2012, 06:54:40 pm »
Recently replaced stock front brake lines my 2010 C14 w/ABS  with Galfer products.  My $.02:  Take your time.  Have a ready supply of towels to protect everything from brake fluid.  Check all your connections.  Then check them again.  The bleeding process is tiresome.  I actually got the feel to about what the stock lines were and then went riding.  I bled them again a couple of days later.  They are now nad squashing two finger strong.  This is not saying that the stock lines were bad.  Just saying that properly installed and bled braided steel lines are better. 

** Results may vary, objects are closer than they appear, yada, yada, yada. 
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Offline ZG

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 07:24:48 pm »
I just did braided lines on mine a couple months ago, my thread is attached below with plenty o' pics for ya...  :)

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,33424.msg169378.html#msg169378
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Offline oldnslo_MO

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2012, 11:45:46 pm »
Our brakes are pretty damn good (aside from the bad linking system on the 10+)  but I don't know that steel lines would make much of a difference...  I've never noticed the hoses swelling and the ABS system does include hardline at spots..

For the poster who noticed less sponginess, I suspect your brakes had air in the system and it got bled out when you installed the cables... but that is just my belief :)
  Your belief is wrong.You can see the stock lines flex when you grab a fistful. I tried a full system bleed before I installed the braided lines, with no effect.  :)
happy trails  2016 concours14,2010 bmw k1300ggt, 2015 bmw r1200rt, 09 concours14, 75 kawasaki H1   500cc*79 triumph bonneville750* 2 each  82su zuki gs1100e* 05 yamaha fz1 1100* 03 yamaha fz1 1100*01 goldwing 1800*97 goldwing 1500* 93 goldwing 1500* 80 kawasaki vulcan 1500*76 kawasaki kz650* 66 triumph Bonneville 650* 68 triumph tr 650* 72 norton commando750* 70 bsa rocket III 750*  68 hon cb350* 66 hon cb305*1960 BSA golden flash 500cc*1950 cushman

Offline Finesse

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2012, 02:25:28 am »
I think mostly the favorable results are subjective. Like whenever you believe in something, it does seem better. No doubt the SS lines flex less, but you don't jamb on the brakes anyhow, you ease them on. At least I do.

Offline ZG

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2012, 02:31:23 am »
you don't jamb on the brakes anyhow, you ease them on. At least I do.

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Offline TGE

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2012, 10:21:57 pm »
I think mostly the favorable results are subjective. Like whenever you believe in something, it does seem better. No doubt the SS lines flex less, but you don't jamb on the brakes anyhow, you ease them on. At least I do.

I disagree with that. The difference between rubber and stainless steel brake lines is certainly measurable and repeatable. In addition, the consensus among performance riders, racers, race mechanics, etc. is that stainless steel lines are a vast improvement over rubber lines, and are thus standard in racing. And nobody jams the brakes, especially not in racing.
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2010 Triumph Street Triple 675 | 2008 Kawasaki Concours 14 ABS | 2007 Yamaha YZF-R6 (track only) | 2005 Suzuki DR650 SE | 2003 Honda CRF 450R | 2004 Yamaha TT-R 125LE

Offline anthony - Sacramento

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2012, 05:29:59 am »
only big difference is when the fluid gets hot , the stock rubber lines will expand and make for a soft feel . and the braided lines dont do that so they feel the same all the time , and the braided lines are safer ,  :beerchug: 
love my concours 1400 , im trying to keep it stock :) hahaha

Offline oldnslo_MO

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2012, 03:40:51 pm »
OK here we go. First off I never claimed anyone should slam on the brakes,I agree that's not the right thing to do.I didn"t apparently make myself clear about grabing a fistful,I did that in the garage while the bike was static.With varying pressure you can see the lines flex. Also, if braided line advantage is only subjective, then I wonder why almost all european bikes ,some Harleys and some jap sportbikes do come with braided lines, If there is no reason then I can't believe they would do it just for looks,as the lines are more expensive than rubber. I also agree that brake performance is dependent on caliper,rotor and tire design.  I was only answering a query by a poster on my experience with braided lines. If you don't agree,so be it,I'm not trying to force anyone. Thank you posters that did so, for the braking technique advice. :-[
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 03:43:05 pm by oldnslo_MO »
happy trails  2016 concours14,2010 bmw k1300ggt, 2015 bmw r1200rt, 09 concours14, 75 kawasaki H1   500cc*79 triumph bonneville750* 2 each  82su zuki gs1100e* 05 yamaha fz1 1100* 03 yamaha fz1 1100*01 goldwing 1800*97 goldwing 1500* 93 goldwing 1500* 80 kawasaki vulcan 1500*76 kawasaki kz650* 66 triumph Bonneville 650* 68 triumph tr 650* 72 norton commando750* 70 bsa rocket III 750*  68 hon cb350* 66 hon cb305*1960 BSA golden flash 500cc*1950 cushman

Offline Gypsy JR

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Re: braided lines with ABS ??
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2012, 09:34:55 pm »
On my ZX14, I put custom stainless steel braided hoses on the front, the rear, and the clutch, because I need +7" over on front and clutch anyway once I put the LSL handlebar adapter on with the big risers and Superbike High bar.

Man sometimes I wish I'd kept it.

Anyway, those hoses (made by Roaring Toyz to specification, plus a +7" throttle cable set) make a marked difference in brake feel and consistancy under heavy braking and when getting it in the mountains (see "under heavy braking" lol).

I've seen and felt the change in a half dozen bikes that I rode for a couple years before switching to ss braided, and each one performed better after the switch.

But if you aren't repeatedly braking hard (which is not the same as "slamming the brakes on") for long periods of time, you'd never notice the difference.

After this riding season is over, I'm going to switch my C14 over to ss braided, and have Roaring Toyz make them for me.
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