Author Topic: Brake rotor opinions  (Read 3067 times)

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2018, 12:04:46 pm »
This discussion brings up a thought.
I think I recall that someone had installed 330's on his bike.

Are any of the Chinese Rotors {that would fit a ZX or a ZG} a larger diameter than our's?
Or, do they offer larger diameter rotors for our bikes?

They sell everything else.... Maybe??

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline NYbiomed

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2018, 01:10:18 pm »
Curious....Ive heard of the larger rotor conversions, but never really felt the brakes were ever so bad that it was needed. I certainly don't think the difference would be as nearly so noticeable as say a suspension upgrade to Ohlins, AK20s, Penske, etc...albeit, it couldn't be nearly as pricey either.


This discussion brings up a thought.
I think I recall that someone had installed 330's on his bike.

Are any of the Chinese Rotors {that would fit a ZX or a ZG} a larger diameter than our's?
Or, do they offer larger diameter rotors for our bikes?

They sell everything else.... Maybe??

Ride safe, Ted
2002 Honda VTR1000F SuperHawk
2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 ABS
1999 Suzuki Katana 750   1993 Yamaha Seca II
1990 Kawasaki EX500      1983 Honda CB1000 Custom

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2018, 01:16:57 pm »
Thinking more along the lines of; If your buying a set of rotors anyway, maybe a larger dia. is available from them (the Chinese suppliers)..  >:D
Not considering it, "just" to move to the larger dia.
                           thinking {If you were buying rotor's anyway} why not buy the larger Dia. {if it is available/cheap?}

Ride safe, Ted

For instance: these.. ($220 / pair)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/320mm-Oversized-Brake-Disc-Rotor-for-Kawasaki-ZX6R-NINJA-636-ZX-10R-Z-800-e-ABS/192512696431?hash=item2cd2a6a06f:g:nhoAAOSwKoFa1UdO&vxp=mtr

NOTE: I sent them a note and asked if they made them for a Zx-14.
          Warped Mind Reasoning:  These are supposed to fit a ZX-10R and I think a ZX-10R is the same as a ZX-14.
                                                "and",,,, A ZX-14 is supposed to be the same as ours}?

Soo,, mebbee.)   >:D
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:01:08 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2018, 06:08:56 pm »
there are, and they come with spacers and longer caliper bolts... but it's kinda ridiculous, if you have ABS and/or linked brakes... and everything is functional... :o

I don't see any benefits, as you ain't locking the brakes up anyways... :-X :-[ ::)

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2018, 08:13:49 pm »
Your saying the Chinese Rotors {that fit our bikes} are available in a larger diameter {with spacers/bolts}??
Where/how/who/how much larger??

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2018, 08:30:17 pm »
Your saying the Chinese Rotors {that fit our bikes} are available in a larger diameter {with spacers/bolts}??
Where/how/who/how much larger??

Ride safe, Ted


no, no, noooo, Ted.... :-[ :-[ :-[
I didn't say that....
I said I've seen larger diameter aftermarket rotors for retrofitting to the ZX (so, by association, the ZG also), available from some place. (sorry, didn't mean to confuse, or Confucius, the answer, by the 'Chinese' part) they had hollow spacers to move the caliper further out away from the center of the axle, and longer bolts came with them to accommodate that on the larger diameter disc...

 :-X :truce:
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 08:34:02 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline cuda

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2018, 08:42:01 pm »
[quotesg647210#msg647210 date=1535503408]
Thanks for the replies - I'm not interested in cleaning the rotors and sanding the pads... For less than a few hundred I'd rather slap a new set on. Composites building up on rotors is not a normal occurrence and it's not a part of any regular service to spend time sanding rotors so for me replacement is the only way to go. I do appreciate the feedback though - cheers.

The only problem with that, is that if it is deposits on the rotors, as was the case with many, mine included, the issue will return if you use pads that leave deposits. So, you will have to clean the new rotors, or replace them again.

I have cleaned mine, replaced pads, and now, they need cleaned again. But, I haven't had to spend money on replacing rotors, and cleaning them takes less time than removing and installing new rotors.
[/quote]








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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2018, 11:32:00 pm »
Your saying the Chinese Rotors {that fit our bikes} are available in a larger diameter {with spacers/bolts}??
Where/how/who/how much larger??

Ride safe, Ted


no, no, noooo, Ted.... :-[ :-[ :-[
I didn't say that....
I said I've seen larger diameter aftermarket rotors for retrofitting to the ZX (so, by association, the ZG also), available from some place. (sorry, didn't mean to confuse, or Confucius, the answer, by the 'Chinese' part) they had hollow spacers to move the caliper further out away from the center of the axle, and longer bolts came with them to accommodate that on the larger diameter disc...

 :-X :truce:

See my question on Reply's 25 and 27, and  you'll understand my cornfusion to your note.
I was just wondering if there was an inexpensive option for larger dia Rotors.

I realize that there would not be that much of a change in effectiveness..
Not planning anything, just throwing out idea's...

Ride safe Brother, Ted
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 06:24:28 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Hayabusa3

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2018, 04:02:25 am »
Thank you again for all of the replies. But to anyone that suggests regularly cleaning rotors  - this isn't a real world fix in any automotive or motorcycle shop. 95% of pads don't leave deposits on their rotors which can be cleaned here and there. I'm not saying that that's not happening here, and I'm not saying I've got money to burn, just that I'd rather have the same quality of brakes that my 4runner has, or my girls Lexus, or my other bike - FZ1, or my old hayabusa or my blackbird before that, or my CBR 600 before that, or just about ANY of my friends bikes or cars.
     It just seems like a let down to one day have great brakes ....then a few weeks later have to sand the disks, and repeat. It's fixing the problem vs patching the problem.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2018, 06:17:59 pm »
soooo, when you install the new Chinese rotors.... exactly what NEW pads do you intend on using?
I just have to ask, as keeping track of this front brake issue since day one of production, clearly showed me that the pad composition on the gen I bikes, was the evident culpret..
It improved on the Gen II, and finally I think it got fully corrected by the 3rd OEM pad part number superceding the first 2.
But then, unless you measure the rotor's runout, and ascertain the problem and correct the cause, it's all just poke and hope.
Nobody here is saying you have to clean the rotors every couple weeks.
But as this bike eats tires like Cheerio's, everytime I have a rim off, and I'm cleaning it before mounting my new rubber, I scrub the rotors with BrakeKleen and a Scotchbrite..
Been doing that since '08, seems to work fine for me. Also, as the pads are the culpret, I've been running EBC pads since the first replacement, and never really had an issue that effected braking, or brake feedback. Yeah, they hiss a bit when new, but that isn't an issue.

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Offline Phil

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2018, 07:49:22 pm »


The only problem with that, is that if it is deposits on the rotors, as was the case with many, mine included, the issue will return if you use pads that leave deposits. So, you will have to clean the new rotors, or replace them again.

I have cleaned mine, replaced pads, and now, they need cleaned again. But, I haven't had to spend money on replacing rotors, and cleaning them takes less time than removing and installing new rotors.








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Offline Phil

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2018, 07:58:26 pm »
soooo, when you install the new Chinese rotors.... exactly what NEW pads do you intend on using?
I just have to ask, as keeping track of this front brake issue since day one of production, clearly showed me that the pad composition on the gen I bikes, was the evident culpret..
It improved on the Gen II, and finally I think it got fully corrected by the 3rd OEM pad part number superceding the first 2.
But then, unless you measure the rotor's runout, and ascertain the problem and correct the cause, it's all just poke and hope.
Nobody here is saying you have to clean the rotors every couple weeks.
But as this bike eats tires like Cheerio's, everytime I have a rim off, and I'm cleaning it before mounting my new rubber, I scrub the rotors with BrakeKleen and a Scotchbrite..
Been doing that since '08, seems to work fine for me. Also, as the pads are the culpret, I've been running EBC pads since the first replacement, and never really had an issue that effected braking, or brake feedback. Yeah, they hiss a bit when new, but that isn't an issue.

Stop with the intelligent thought.   :sign0023:

It makes much more sense to replace the rotors, then replace them again when they get deposits on them. Right?

Of course a person could replace the perfectly good rotors, AND replace the pads with pads that do not leave deposits...

Or, one could CLEAN the perfectly good rotors, AND replace the pads with ones that don't leave deposits...but that woud make too much sense. We can't have that now could we?

 :banghead:

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2018, 09:15:10 pm »
Just to stir the pot:   :rotflmao:
Do we know if the deposits that accumulate on the rotors is; from the Brake pads
                                                                                        or from Gunk from the road??

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Phil

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2018, 10:28:29 pm »
Just to stir the pot:   :rotflmao:
Do we know if the deposits that accumulate on the rotors is; from the Brake pads
                                                                                        or from Gunk from the road??

Ride safe, Ted

Pads. They have made changes to the pads to fix the issue. The Gen 1 pads were the worst for it.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2018, 10:35:11 pm »
Shhhhh, I was trying to stir the pot. <evil grin>  >:D

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Phil

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2018, 11:18:58 pm »
Shhhhh, I was trying to stir the pot. <evil grin>  >:D

Ride safe, Ted

 :-[

I have heard that cleaning the rotors with the scotchbrite pads do prematurely wear the rotors...  >:D

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2018, 11:31:58 pm »
Curious....Ive heard of the larger rotor conversions, but never really felt the brakes were ever so bad that it was needed. I certainly don't think the difference would be as nearly so noticeable as say a suspension upgrade to Ohlins, AK20s, Penske, etc...albeit, it couldn't be nearly as pricey either.


Yes, I already have Ohlin's and AK20's and the brakes on a C14 are not bad to most everyone. The C10 brakes were not 'bad' either but a set of 320mm  instead of 300mm  (with 4 pots) made a huge massive improvement so much so that when I bought my C14  I thought those brakes 'SUCKED!'  compared to my C10 BBK's.
So you can see my interest in 330mm rotors since  I am now on my 3rd set of OEM rotors in less than 24k miles.  The first two (maybe it was three sets) all warped and were replaced under warranty.  They were not contaminated rotors either  as the run out on my dial indicator showed then truly warped.

So we know there are 330mm BBK installed and the owners love them and we already know  they last far longer than stock  so there should be a way to source
 4  longer bolts
 4 spacers
and 330 hopefully 330mm chineese rotors.
 
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2018, 11:35:05 pm »
Shhhhh, I was trying to stir the pot. <evil grin>  >:D

Ride safe, Ted

yeah, you stirred it well my brother...

and yes, the old compound would "migrate" to the disc, after hard braking, and comming to a long stop, with the brakes applied, while they cooled. i di notice this by 'witness' marks, early on in '07, when i bought mine, and did some pretty aggressive braking thru the mountain passes on the way to the '07 national rally... it started out hot and sunny on the way, and thru the mountains, but in the valleys and slow roads that followed, I did feel the 'shudder' thing, and stopped, looked at the rotors, and could clearly see the marks where the pad's adhesive binder material had migrated to the disc... i did scrub them with Gumout, and a scothbrite when i got to the rally site, and found it cured the problem, but had to repeat the process a few times later on, before switching to the EBC pads... and then, never had an issue... I did think I warped a rotor at first, but when checking with a dial indicator, never had more than .0005" runout deviation... hell, I'm sure the 'new' Chinese rotors runout more than that, out of the box...

so, using the latest pads, OEM, for the Gen 2.5, or EBC's, still are the way to go... ... because lets face it, if you put on 'new' rotors, why not 'new pads also'

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Offline Phil

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2018, 11:47:38 pm »


so, using the latest pads, OEM, for the Gen 2.5, or EBC's, still are the way to go... ... because lets face it, if you put on 'new' rotors, why not 'new pads also'

Naaahhh... no sense in using new pads, rotors are cheap and he can just buy nee ones when the replacements get deposits on them.  :great:

Offline Hayabusa3

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2018, 12:04:05 am »
soooo, when you install the new Chinese rotors.... exactly what NEW pads do you intend on using?
I just have to ask, as keeping track of this front brake issue since day one of production, clearly showed me that the pad composition on the gen I bikes, was the evident culpret..
It improved on the Gen II, and finally I think it got fully corrected by the 3rd OEM pad part number superceding the first 2.
But then, unless you measure the rotor's runout, and ascertain the problem and correct the cause, it's all just poke and hope.
Nobody here is saying you have to clean the rotors every couple weeks.
But as this bike eats tires like Cheerio's, everytime I have a rim off, and I'm cleaning it before mounting my new rubber, I scrub the rotors with BrakeKleen and a Scotchbrite..
Been doing that since '08, seems to work fine for me. Also, as the pads are the culpret, I've been running EBC pads since the first replacement, and never really had an issue that effected braking, or brake feedback. Yeah, they hiss a bit when new, but that isn't an issue.

I was planning on changing them out (only 7,000 miles on the bike) with EBC pads.

Offline Hayabusa3

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2018, 12:09:12 am »


so, using the latest pads, OEM, for the Gen 2.5, or EBC's, still are the way to go... ... because lets face it, if you put on 'new' rotors, why not 'new pads also'

Naaahhh... no sense in using new pads, rotors are cheap and he can just buy nee ones when the replacements get deposits on them.  :great:

New rotors with old pads?? That's like putting new socks on dirty feet. I realize you think I'm foolish to throw money away on new rotors when all they need is a clean. Why would Kawasaki have their techs replace rotors under warranty instead of just changing the pads and sanding the rotors?  Doesn't really matter though - I get the impression that your way is the only way?

Offline Phil

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2018, 12:42:39 am »


so, using the latest pads, OEM, for the Gen 2.5, or EBC's, still are the way to go... ... because lets face it, if you put on 'new' rotors, why not 'new pads also'

Naaahhh... no sense in using new pads, rotors are cheap and he can just buy nee ones when the replacements get deposits on them.  :great:

New rotors with old pads?? That's like putting new socks on dirty feet. I realize you think I'm foolish to throw money away on new rotors when all they need is a clean. Why would Kawasaki have their techs replace rotors under warranty instead of just changing the pads and sanding the rotors?  Doesn't really matter though - I get the impression that your way is the only way?

No, that isn't my way, but I also don't replace things that don't need replacing. Also, be sure you get pads that don't leave the deposits, or you will end up where you started.

No, Kawasaki only replace rotors under warranty if they out of specs for runout, which they check with a dial-indicator. If they aren't out of spec, they won't warranty them. I had one set replaced early on, they were warped, my second set exhibited the same symptoms, they were within spec. I cleaned them and all was well.

So no, it isn't my way. You are welcome to buy new rotors, I personally don't care, but I will tell you unless you get pads that don't leave residue, you may have issues again. I have EBCs and though they have been better than my original pads, the rotors now need cleaned again, it just took longer this time. I can also say that unless you have checked your rotors for runout and you know they are warped beyond the allowable specs, you could probable clean them for less money, in less time, and have the same results.

So yeah, people are messing with you, but they are also telling the truth. My dad told me years that he learned from other people's mistakes, because he said he would live long enough to make them all himself.

Offline Hayabusa3

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2018, 03:10:46 am »


so, using the latest pads, OEM, for the Gen 2.5, or EBC's, still are the way to go... ... because lets face it, if you put on 'new' rotors, why not 'new pads also'

Naaahhh... no sense in using new pads, rotors are cheap and he can just buy nee ones when the replacements get deposits on them.  :great:

New rotors with old pads?? That's like putting new socks on dirty feet. I realize you think I'm foolish to throw money away on new rotors when all they need is a clean. Why would Kawasaki have their techs replace rotors under warranty instead of just changing the pads and sanding the rotors?  Doesn't really matter though - I get the impression that your way is the only way?

No, that isn't my way, but I also don't replace things that don't need replacing. Also, be sure you get pads that don't leave the deposits, or you will end up where you started.

No, Kawasaki only replace rotors under warranty if they out of specs for runout, which they check with a dial-indicator. If they aren't out of spec, they won't warranty them. I had one set replaced early on, they were warped, my second set exhibited the same symptoms, they were within spec. I cleaned them and all was well.

So no, it isn't my way. You are welcome to buy new rotors, I personally don't care, but I will tell you unless you get pads that don't leave residue, you may have issues again. I have EBCs and though they have been better than my original pads, the rotors now need cleaned again, it just took longer this time. I can also say that unless you have checked your rotors for runout and you know they are warped beyond the allowable specs, you could probable clean them for less money, in less time, and have the same results.

So yeah, people are messing with you, but they are also telling the truth. My dad told me years that he learned from other people's mistakes, because he said he would live long enough to make them all himself.

I appreciate this forum and the good advice. I know there is a ton of knowledge built up over yeas of riding between all of us. I'll be putting EBC's on and hopefully that'll be that.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2018, 02:07:51 pm »
Good, we're all in agreement.
   Now can someone find me a Chinese Rotor in a larger Diameter??

I actually wasn't aware of the brake pad being a possible problem.
I have encountered the shudder/slight wobble myself occasionally. But mine has been an occasional problem. Which (actually) is why I asked if it could be road material that was causing the problems.

Thanks for the info.....

I've never used Gummout or Scotchbrite Pads on mine. I just give the rotors a good scrub when I (occasionally) wash the bike.
That may explain why mine is a intermittent shudder.

By the way, I have no plans for Rotors in my near future. Just asking about the larger Diameter as it was a passing thought...

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Phil

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Re: Brake rotor opinions
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2018, 05:54:19 pm »


so, using the latest pads, OEM, for the Gen 2.5, or EBC's, still are the way to go... ... because lets face it, if you put on 'new' rotors, why not 'new pads also'

Naaahhh... no sense in using new pads, rotors are cheap and he can just buy nee ones when the replacements get deposits on them.  :great:

New rotors with old pads?? That's like putting new socks on dirty feet. I realize you think I'm foolish to throw money away on new rotors when all they need is a clean. Why would Kawasaki have their techs replace rotors under warranty instead of just changing the pads and sanding the rotors?  Doesn't really matter though - I get the impression that your way is the only way?

No, that isn't my way, but I also don't replace things that don't need replacing. Also, be sure you get pads that don't leave the deposits, or you will end up where you started.

No, Kawasaki only replace rotors under warranty if they out of specs for runout, which they check with a dial-indicator. If they aren't out of spec, they won't warranty them. I had one set replaced early on, they were warped, my second set exhibited the same symptoms, they were within spec. I cleaned them and all was well.

So no, it isn't my way. You are welcome to buy new rotors, I personally don't care, but I will tell you unless you get pads that don't leave residue, you may have issues again. I have EBCs and though they have been better than my original pads, the rotors now need cleaned again, it just took longer this time. I can also say that unless you have checked your rotors for runout and you know they are warped beyond the allowable specs, you could probable clean them for less money, in less time, and have the same results.

So yeah, people are messing with you, but they are also telling the truth. My dad told me years that he learned from other people's mistakes, because he said he would live long enough to make them all himself.

I appreciate this forum and the good advice. I know there is a ton of knowledge built up over yeas of riding between all of us. I'll be putting EBC's on and hopefully that'll be that.

After you get them on, let us know how the install went, and how you like them. That is a great price for a pair.