Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Jonbo on November 06, 2018, 10:56:19 pm

Title: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Jonbo on November 06, 2018, 10:56:19 pm
Just took possession of a 2018 C14 and did not receive much instruction on break in or features for that matter (First 600 mi.)wondering what to do & what to look for, like an observable redline. Also when is it expedient to change to full synthetic lubricants. I was having some buyers remorse until I completed the first 1/4 mi. leaving the dealership ;)All smiles since. What a fine piece of motorcycle  engineering. It will probably take me a month to explore all the features. The only thing that I am experiencing that is requiring some adjustment is the brakes they are good and are quick to bring me to a halt but are somewhat different than what I have experienced with other brands all input is appreciated. :)
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Dirtwiz on November 06, 2018, 11:13:45 pm
I believe the owners manual explains the break in period but a lot of people have different ideas about it. I don't know of anybody that has had any problems due to following the manual directions though. As far as oil, most do an early oil change at around 500 miles with dino oil and don't go to synthetic until 7,500 miles or more. Personally, I would avoid constant speeds and high rpm's (like over 7,000)  and keep the rpm's varied and avoid idling or stop and go traffic. Very few of these bikes burn or use any oil if ridden normally for the break in distance. Glad you joined us!!
Here is a link I found that might help.....a little conservative for me but its from the manual. https://www.manualslib.com/manual/850263/Kawasaki-Concours-14-Abs.html?page=118 (https://www.manualslib.com/manual/850263/Kawasaki-Concours-14-Abs.html?page=118)
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Daboo on November 06, 2018, 11:36:21 pm
You'll find as many opinions on break-in procedures as members on this forum.  They are all right.  :D

I owned two different Suzuki Burgman scooters.  With the first one, I followed the salesman's advice and just tried to ride it like I planned to after the break-in.  Moderately.  Before buying the second, I read the Motoman break-in process and thought I'd try that.  So I did.  No difference in either bike in the 77,000 total miles for them.  One was treated nicely.  The other was beat in comparison.

As for oil, I do the taste test.  If it tastes yucky, I change it.  Since it always tastes yucky, I change a lot of oil in search of the best vintage.

Or was that wine???

Chris
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: gpd323 on November 07, 2018, 12:45:37 am
When the bike comes off the Assembly line it goes to a dyno and is run to redline thorough the gears before it leaves the line.

Me? I went by the FSM and changed the oil early to full synthetic.

Many vehicles come straight off the line running full synth. 

YMMV.

 :beerchug:
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Road Runner on November 07, 2018, 02:03:57 am
When the bike comes off the Assembly line it goes to a dyno and is run to redline thorough the gears before it leaves the line.

Me? I went by the FSM and changed the oil early to full synthetic.

Many vehicles come straight off the line running full synth. 

YMMV.

 :beerchug:

I too went to full synthetic at first oil change and all changes since. No issues and I'm about 200 miles shy of eclipsing the 50K mark on my '13. I purchased it new in July '15, so have put a few miles on it in less than 3.5 yrs...not as much as some COG members, but likely more than normal.
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: subsailor on November 07, 2018, 12:31:14 pm
Adding another log to the fire. Good info here.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/ (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/)
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Red Fox on November 07, 2018, 06:37:11 pm
Just took possession of a 2018 C14 and did not receive much instruction on break in or features for that matter (First 600 mi.)wondering what to do & what to look for, like an observable redline.

During breakin, ride it like you will the rest of its life.  Meaning no break in. 
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 07, 2018, 07:36:35 pm
The issue of using synthetic to early in an engine's life is seriously overplayed. the OLD dogma was that syn was to slippery and wouldn't let the rings seat. Not true. BUT using syn early on is a waste on money, because syn's cost a bunch and a new engine should have the oil changed a couple times in the first couple thousand miles to flush the engine from the slough of metal typical of a new engine. Use relatively inexpensive conventional oil for the first couple changes, then move on the extended drain syn's.

  As far as break in, what probably matters most is varying rpm and load, and using alot of engine decelerations to roll the rings up and help them seal on the pistons as well as the cylinder walls. High rpm isn't really necessary, but certainly developing cylinder pressure with aggressive accelerations using up to 3/4 throttle followed by closed throttle decels seems to do the best at bedding the rings.

  The worst thing that cam be done is light throttle droning , thinking you're being "nice" to the engine.
  JMO, Steve
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 07, 2018, 08:56:49 pm
taking Steve's comments one step further.... the "owners manual" that came with the bike should have had a section printed in bold... capitol letters, saying "NEVER USE GEAR #6, UNTIL THE BIKE HAS 2000 MILES ON IT...."

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :great: :great: :great:

IMHO, that 6th gear, is a redunculous thing, that causes folks the issue... if the bike ain't sitting around a minimum 3k rpm, up and down, it isn't getting broken in.
Ride that puppy hard, hammer it, make it groan... up and down... and change the oil a couple times with new filters, before going into the "high priced oil", and longer interval changes.
cheap API rated Dino oils, and filters, 600, 2000, and 5000 mile intervals..during the breakin....simply because fuel gasses break down oils during the initial blowby/break in.... then use whatever you want.  oh, and do drain and replace the drive unit lube, at those same intervals... and then go full synth on that drive unit fill also.
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Jonbo on November 07, 2018, 09:47:39 pm
Thanks for the great councsel I have read the manual and thought although instructive a little conservative as far as a red line of 4000 RPM  for the first 600 Mi.but right now I have had very little opportunity to spend time above that mark but I confess I have touched 6000 RPM, inadvertently of course and promptly backed off, however, the motor really seems enjoy that level of activity. Does anyone know if the throttlemeister for model year 2017 will work  on a 2018? I really need one and I don't get any meaningful response from throttlemeister addressing that issue. Are the bar tubes the same diameter? I gotta say this is truly a great site and I appreciate all the info.
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Bud on November 07, 2018, 11:23:17 pm
I would be surprised if the throttlemeister for a 17 wouldn't work on an 18.  Haven't heard anything about any changes to the bars. 
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 07, 2018, 11:38:07 pm
the physical parameters :truce: of the bike, with regards to most systems, and dimensional aspects of parts, have been unchanged since '07


yes, t/m fits.
break the bike in, get 5k miless on it, and then see if "you" have been modified enough, to suit the bike... modding the bike, before it fits, just spends $$$.
I think most people need to "fit" the bike, not vice versa.. JMHO.

 :rotflmao: ;)
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: connie_rider on November 08, 2018, 12:13:58 am
They've all sed it. But I think Steve sed it the best.

 As far as break in, what probably matters most is varying rpm and load, and using a lot of engine decelerations to roll the rings up and help them seal on the pistons as well as the cylinder walls. High rpm isn't really necessary, but certainly developing cylinder pressure with aggressive accelerations using up to 3/4 throttle followed by closed throttle decels seems to do the best at bedding the rings.

Suggestion;
   If you live near a really twisty road, go ride it..
   Cruise at (or just above) the posted speed {vary the speed if it's long straights}, run a gear higher than you need, let it decelerate into the curves and "accelerate" out,   :motonoises:
  after your out of the curve go back to; at (or just above) the posted speed until the next turn.   
    Repeat till ya run out of road.   {Then turn around and do it again}.. :great:
                    Seats the rings, lets you learn the bike, and fun as heck!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: cuda on November 08, 2018, 01:08:19 am
I redlined mine on the test drive :motonoises:
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: oldnslo_MO on November 08, 2018, 07:16:35 pm
i always give it 100 miles to make sure nothing falls off, then i ride it like i stole it. always go to synthetic oil at 500 miles. has always worked for me for over 50 years... :)
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 08, 2018, 10:12:47 pm
i always give it 100 miles to make sure nothing falls off, then i ride it like i stole it. always go to synthetic oil at 500 miles. has always worked for me for over 50 years... :)


 :??: :??: :??: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: CaffeineMan on November 09, 2018, 01:39:20 am
Just finished breaking in my new '17 this way:

0-100 miles:  accel and decel 2k-4k RPM, avoiding 6th gear.
- Changed the oil to non-syn.  Noticed the metallic sheen of the old oil and celebrated its departure from the motor.

100-500 miles:  harder accel and decel 2k-6k RPM, using all gears
- Changed the oil to non-syn.  Noticed the metallic sheen of the old oil and celebrated its departure from the motor.
- Changed the final drive fluid (syn).  Noticed the metallic sheen of the old fluid and celebrated its departure from the final drive.

500-1000 miles:  ride normally
- Changed the oil to syn.

1000-2000 miles:  bang it off the rev limiter a couple of times passing people on the winding roads to Prescott.   ;D
- Changed the oil and final drive fluid again.

Regardless of how you run it, or whether you use syn or non-syn oil during breakin, I think it's most important to get all the metallic crap out of there, as Steve pointed out.  I decided to do the same with the final drive fluid as well.  There's not a lot of volume there, compared to the C10.

Happy Riding  :)
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: bajasam on November 09, 2018, 03:18:11 pm
every year more and more owners manuals for cars trucks,bikes,airplanes,boats are not putting any mention of a break in period.reason being is due today's modern machining processes are so accurate and precise that no breakin is necessary and your rings are fully seated when it leaves the factory.people just cant shake all the old tales granpa espoused.along with the old tales about synth oil which has no difference in slipperyness compared to dino, the only difference that exist between the two are the extreme high and low temperature performance abilities of synth over dino. if your not running in -40 degree temps or 100+degree temps with air cooling only you are just wasting your money buying synth.
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Victor Salisbury on November 09, 2018, 03:56:07 pm
Gleaned from a few industry insiders, some C level execs, over the many years, do remember that the 'owners manual' ( "bible" to some, especially new operators) went through 20 gabillion hours of corporate legal counsel review internal and external to make sure the owners manual is "Right" the first time rider of EVER operating a motorcycle before printing. Take break in for what it is worth, by the book, but the overall Ralph Nader paranoia is good grief, get familiar with the dang machine before you go checking the limits of the machine and yourself on that machine.
Plus, if one of those man made pieces might have a flaw or assembled incorrectly, would rather have that show up during "Break in" as  opposed to max throttle, max lean driving hard out of a corner at Jennings the day after you bought the bike, yeah?

BTW, has anyone ever seen what is done to every the fresh machine when it rolls off the assembly line? They strap it to a roller/dyno, run it to redline in every gear......... course a break in thread is almost as good as an old fashioned oil or tire thread LoL :)  have fun

Thanks for the great councsel I have read the manual and thought although instructive a little conservative as far as a red line of 4000 RPM  for the first 600 Mi.but right now I have had very little opportunity to spend time above that mark but I confess I have touched 6000 RPM, inadvertently of course and promptly backed off, however, the motor really seems enjoy that level of activity. Does anyone know if the throttlemeister for model year 2017 will work  on a 2018? I really need one and I don't get any meaningful response from throttlemeister addressing that issue. Are the bar tubes the same diameter? I gotta say this is truly a great site and I appreciate all the info.
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 09, 2018, 07:32:36 pm
IMHO...
any person that believes modern machining and assembly of engines is "perfect" requiring 'no break in', is sadly missing some accuracy....
yeah, tolerances are tighter, engines are being built better, but there is more to "breaking in" than just making the piston rings seal... LOTS more....
When they strap the bike to the 'dyno' at initial startup, and crank it up.... yes, the pistons begin the sealing process... but this is a quick check of engine integrety, and it' is generally done under a "low loading" on the engine, where it can spin up without damage...

Consider every other piece of "moving/contacting/ metal parts... like cams,the cam caps that retain them in machined recesses', cam/valve/spring contact areas, cam chains and their drive gears, piston rod lower end bearings, and the crankshaft finishes, pieces rubbing together made from various metals.... even the oil pump itself....


ALL of these parts DO require some substantial care in break in, so as to not "overload" a bearing surface by lugging, and hammering it. Spinning the engine is good, and providing the designed film of lubricants of every metal part to burnish them in, while flowing oil thru the passages supplying them, flushes out the micro particulates... and the engine becomes "happy". :rotflmao: :rotflmao: ;)

it's more than ring sealing by far.
ymmv.
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Pbfoot on November 09, 2018, 09:21:22 pm
Modern motorcycle engines certainly benefit from better metallurgy but that doesn't mean you can ignore the break in period. I follow the manual for the 600 mile. Change the oil. Check the valves. Slowly increase the rpm until  I'm hitting redline at1300 miles. Change the oil. Ride it like I stole it from that point. Change the pill again at 3000 miles and then go to regular oil changes. 40 years, 8 bikes. Never had to replace an, engine, clutch, or gearbox. Never had pitted camshafts.  6 of the 8 had over 70,000 miles when I sold them.
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: smooth_operator on November 15, 2018, 05:16:29 am
I always put a baseball inside it then tie it up with shoelaces to form the pocket then slather the outside with vaseline. Oh wait! that's a different break in! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Ken on November 23, 2018, 02:49:26 pm
Check out "MC Garage" . They did what looked like a pretty extensive comparison on both break in techniques. After each break in techniques each engine was torn down and specs. checked. Their tests didn't show any difference. 
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: luv2fly on November 23, 2018, 06:25:16 pm
I literally just copied to paste that vid here.  Great info.  Wish they had done dyno pulls as well, but this dispels a lot of myths.

Cousin got to know a few high level Ford execs and rub elbows with people 'in the know'.  A few years ago a powertrain engineer at Ford told him the exact same things this video points out, modern materials, machining, tolerances, and so on, are so good, the need for a true break-in period, or even process, are long gone. 

Still, if I have the choice, I will take it easy on an engine for the first few thousand miles… I’m old school that way.   Gives me the illusion I am connecting with my machine.

 
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: bajasam on November 23, 2018, 06:55:10 pm
well, you surely wont hurt anything if you take it easy for a thousand miles, amazing what you can learn if you read a few modern tech articles vs relying on granpa's advice from 1940................lol
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: IBAJIM on November 23, 2018, 11:12:19 pm
FYI :   http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm)
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Jonbo on November 25, 2018, 10:19:16 am
Thanks one & all for the sage advice. I have surpassed the 600 Mi. mark by 300 + Mi. as well as doing the first service in a timely fashion. Although I have yet to redline it, 8,000 RPM has been has been touched upon more than once. I confess we are still getting acquainted and I am thoroughly impressed with the power with superlative handling too. Only two things I have to acclimate to, that being the brakes and the low fuel indicator. The linked binders work very well just trying to get the lever/pedal coordination worked out. The low fuel indicator I believe comes on when down to the last half gallon of fuel so I am a little uneasy about the distance yet left in the tank when it comes on. Talking fuel mileage, is 200-225 Mi. pretty much what I can expect/tank in stock form? Thanks. This is fun. A great bike and outstanding forum too. Guess I better become a member. :) 
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: connie_rider on November 25, 2018, 11:49:50 am
The linked binders work very well just trying to get the lever/pedal coordination worked out.

Jonbo, I have a 2014. The way the brakes link on your 2018 are far better than on mine.
I've found that the best way to get the lever/pedal coordination correct, is; don't touch the pedal.
When you apply the front brakes, the lever is already applying all the rear brakes you need.
I know it sounds strange and goes against everything you have learned over the years, but it works.
Because of your previous experience, initially, you'll have to force yourself not to use the pedal...
But, try it, learn to trust it, and you'll be amazed. {and a better rider}

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Yes, do join us... And come to some of the COG Rally's..
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: freebird6 on November 25, 2018, 03:08:33 pm
Got to agree with Ted here, not to start the inevitable linked brakes war but I am thankful for the bike. Since my right ankle has been reconstructed post trauma it does not work. There is no ability to use the pedal so the linked brakes in my right hand are just what the Dr ordered. I don't miss the right foot pedal and yes, I feel like I am a better rider because of it. Miss my 08 but I sure like the new one when it comes to brakes. Enjoy, welcome, see you at a group ride.
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: cuda on November 25, 2018, 03:16:25 pm
And you only need one finger to achieve a massive amount of stopping power. :singing:
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: WillyP on November 28, 2018, 11:08:54 pm
Ride the crap outta it, ride it like you stole it, screw the oil... but I've never owned a new bike or car so don't go by what I say!  :))
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Colt45 on November 29, 2018, 05:18:02 pm
I do and recommend what Caffieneman does, without all the oil changes and with strict adherence to a gentle and thorough warm-up before revving over 2500 rpm.  I change the oil at 500 and 5000 miles and go to synthetic.  By 3k miles I will occasionally hammer it like I stole it and actually ease up on the throttle after the 5k oil change.  It's  done by then, ride normally. 

Gentle early, harder with miles. 
Title: Re: Break In Best Practices
Post by: Lee Ving on December 06, 2018, 03:00:05 am
I have found the Mototune break in claims to be well thought out. I was skeptical at first, but they do match my experiences. Without exception, all the engines that I have broken in easy have tended to dirty oil in few miles and have dynoed weak to the tune of at least a few %. Two quick examples :
CBR 900 I broke in easy smoked up the dyno room and made 6 - 9hp less than others of the same model. It's oil got dirty fast. A ZX6R that I also broke in easy had identical issues, smoked up the dyno room and made 3-6 less hp than others. It's oil (and cylinders) got dirty fast. Both of these bikes were the lowest producing bikes of their kind among like examples on the same dyno, and both showed it on the track. Both of these bikes were race bikes, and I thought I was helping them by taking it easy at first.
 The bikes I have run in since learning different have been at or near the top hp compared to others, do not smoke, and maintain cleaner oil.