Author Topic: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump  (Read 678 times)

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Offline roy826

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Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« on: May 13, 2018, 09:12:56 pm »
Came out of no where last Thursday headed up to suches. Bike had no power I limped around up there for s couple a days and made the best of it. Rode it home today and barely made it home. Bike was all but dying out 3 miles frommy house after logging 1000 miles on it after the symptom appeared. Last 3 miles I could barely make 40 mph. Made it home and just pulled the fuel pump and filter is black.

Looking online I found the highflow quantum T35 deal which sells pump and new features later for $69. Is this worth it or should I buy a whole new pump from Kawasaki for $300.

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html

Symptom started with 15,300 on the clock. Bike sat for 5 years before I bought it and guy never rode it and inside of tank up near cap shows rust. Not so sure this problem won’t come back in time with a new pump and filter in place.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 02:16:36 pm by roy826, Reason: Title »
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline Freddy

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2018, 09:51:33 pm »
I haven't seen a pump failure yet (motor), but the filter is common, Kaw p/n 49019-0013... should be in stock at most Kaw ATV dealerships...

And you have to disassemble the removed pump assembly to get to it anyways, so save the big buck pump cost and simply use those instructions for replacing the filter itself...
$  vs  $$
Might do mine this season, just pre emptively... :great:

But I do thank you for that link to the pump motor, we should get this posted on our replacement part link list...

I will note tho, the Quantum pump pictures are hokey.. as the C14 low fuel level switch, shown, is NOT the configuration which the C14 has... the float and switch run alongside the pump housing axially, not dangling off the top, as they show...


I assume they gleaned this from the Mule ATV model, and call it correct... meh... a poor practice, that places doubts in knowing minds, as to the viability of thos selling stuff... :rotflmao:

« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 10:35:50 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2018, 11:13:01 pm »
Yikes!
Only 15k miles?!  That's craziness.

Sounds like you might want to think about coating the inside of that tank.

I'll be damned if I can remember the name of that stuff, that sets up in the tank like epoxy....tank creme or some such?  :017:
MOB?  you know what that stuff is called?
Seen alot of guys do that to rusty old tanks before with good success......sorry I can't remember the name. SOmebody will chime in.  :great:
*quick search says POR-15 or Caswells*

Also, I'd be more inclined to spend for the OEM pump on this one.

If you're into the fuel pump, you've already done the heavy lifting for this project.

Keep us posted.

gr
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 11:20:00 pm by ghostrider990 »
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Offline Just Cliff

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2018, 12:07:50 am »
There have been a few pump failures. Last one I know of was just last year on a 12 model also. Same symptoms as yours, he had left my place headed back to TN when it started limped on home. Not to many more miles on his than you have.

The filter turning black color is pretty normal. I would pick up one those pumps in your link & install it along with a filter.

Cliff   :beerchug:
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2018, 12:22:44 am »
Quote
I'll be damned if I can remember the name of that stuff, that sets up in the tank like epoxy....tank creme or some such?  :017:


Kreem
http://www.kreem.com/fueltankliner.html

Online ConcoursKZ

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2018, 09:24:51 am »
Remove the tank and inspect it. If it doesn't look good get a new one. After sitting for 5 years that gas was bad. It probably gummed up everything
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2018, 09:48:24 am »
Quote
I'll be damned if I can remember the name of that stuff, that sets up in the tank like epoxy....tank creme or some such?  :017:


Kreem
http://www.kreem.com/fueltankliner.html


Saw quite a few posts where the guys who used KREEM said it began to deteriorate after a few years and "flake" apart, clogging the fuel system.  Better results with the other two i mentioned....but I'm no expert.

We had a rash of rusty tanks on Aprilia Communities, and it was Caswells that got used most often to seal the inner tank.

gr
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2018, 10:05:29 am »
Most decent radiator repair shops can clean and seal the tank. They will clean, degrease and acid etch before permanently sealing it. I've ad good luck doing this with antique bike tanks and never a problem.
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Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2018, 11:03:07 am »
Thanks for all the info.

I think I am going to order the Highflow pump and strainer in the link I posted. For the most part the pump and strainer filter thing is all I need. Pretty sure they used the mule diagram but the two parts I need look to be identical to the Concours parts. I have the pump apart now. The debris I saw on pump strainer was not rust it was more gas related. I had time to kill and cleaned the filter up pretty good. Wasn't as bad as it appeared so I am leaning to think it is the pump like Cliff eluded to.

As for the tank surface rust I saw up front near cap I am not going to worry to much about that. If it was bad it would have been more of it near the pump which was not the case. The guy I bought the bike from just didn't know any better and should have been keeping the fuel tank full of fuel as he looked at the bike for 5 years and rode it twice a year.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline Just Cliff

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2018, 01:19:56 pm »
Let us know how this pump works out Roy. I'm thinking it's cheap insurance for me, just to go ahead & stick one in when I change my filter again.

After all my pump is subject to go out at anytime considering it's mileage. Not to mention I've only replaced my filter once.  :??:

Also the bike I mentioned above would not run above 5,000 rpm's best I recall.

Cliff   :beerchug:

Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2018, 02:12:47 pm »
Let us know how this pump works out Roy. I'm thinking it's cheap insurance for me, just to go ahead & stick one in when I change my filter again.

After all my pump is subject to go out at anytime considering it's mileage. Not to mention I've only replaced my filter once.  :??:

Also the bike I mentioned above would not run above 5,000 rpm's best I recall.

Cliff   :beerchug:

Sure will Cliff. Yea mine was cutting out at initially 6-7k rpm on the gas but by the time I was nearing home 1000 miles later I was down to 4k rpms or less and really having to feather the throttle lightly to make any forward momentum. Luckily MS is relatively flat lol The last couple of miles nearing the house seemed to be the worst it had been all weekend. The pump never has made any unusual noises during this or before but I did notice a weird grinding or roughness sitting on the bike when it would prime up on start up.

I thought back on this over the weekend and before I left on the trip the bike seemed rather flat off the bottom on power and I just passed it off to the slipon muffler I had added about the time I noticed the power drop off. Might not be related but I kind of want to think it was in the process of failing over a period of time it just took a long trip to finally start to die. I pushed the bike hard on the way over to Suches, not much under a 100 the whole way. Once I diverted around the mess called Atlanta and sat in traffic barely moving for miles is when it lost power for the first time ever trying to get back on the 285 at speed.

One more thing it was way worse with a low fuel load. Full tank at times barely any hiccup at all. Fuel load with 2 bars showing or less it would barely go. That even more makes me think it was the pump with no extra head pressure with a low fuel load.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline Roger B

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 06:47:53 pm »
I think I'm going to change the fuel filter as preventive maintenance also.   I have 20k on my 2010 C14.    I was reading on a ZX Forum where a ZX14r with 8k miles on it with mods was only getting low 190s at the rear wheel.   It wasn't getting enough fuel, they removed and replaced the fuel filter only and rwhp was restored and went to the low 200's.   Stated the fuel filter was black and partially clogged.   I also have a zx14r but it only has 3.5k miles on it, not changing it yet.      Neither bike show any signs of any problems.    Not trying to identify an issue that probably isn't there, but how has the filters looked when you guys have changed them and at what age and miles?   

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2018, 07:00:37 pm »
There have been a few pump failures. Last one I know of was just last year on a 12 model also. Same symptoms as yours, he had left my place headed back to TN when it started limped on home. Not to many more miles on his than you have.

The filter turning black color is pretty normal. I would pick up one those pumps in your link & install it along with a filter.

Cliff   :beerchug:

I have to appologise, it seems there were a couple, which slipped under my radar... :truce:
I suppose that pump/motor/filter deal probably is a good thing.. One kit to cover it,

Hopefully it gets everything squared away.
I have had a few people with simple clogged filters tho, and replacing the trea bags cured them, this was on early bikes also.

There is a pressure /flow regulator device that sits atop of the actual pump, when assembled, and so far I have no replacement p/n for that, if and when I find one, I'll sticky it up... its likely just a spring and ball poppet device, with a fixed orafice, but if one does go bad, it will reduce the new pumps lifespan also, just as will a clooged tea bag filter, making the pump work harder than normal.

Full tank or low fuel level really should not have any effect on the flow here tho, its a positive displacement pump, and gravity or minimal pressure a full tank vs partial tank play isn't really mesurable, unless a tank vent is clogged, the pump is what controls flow, not gravity.


The tank coatings I can recommend, are the POR and Caswell products, I have had issues with repairing tanks some owners have used Kreem on, and I find it unreliable, and difficult to correct when it goes bad...
 Best of luck on the new pump, if and when mine goes bad, I will figure out a "test procedure" for it, to safely test its flow and pressure ouput once removed.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 10:16:15 am »
Ordered the pump assembly from Highflow. Good friend has a new KTM 1290 (1 1/2 old) which are prone to pump failures and he has had no issues with the Highflow. The assembly comes with a lifetime warranty no strings attached. I verified that on the phone yesterday with the guy. Part was shipped promptly and should be in my hand tomorrow weds. I will however have to wait on Kawasaki to get me a new pump tank oring. Local dealer is closed on mondays so I could not order that until today.

Revisited the tank inside and I'm going to let it be. Like I said earlier even though it looks rusty up under the cap location where gas never touches unless its splashing the stuff I saw on my tea bag  :) was gas/fuel related. Very little rust I saw if any. Few grains but not enough to stop up a filter. Meantime I have been looking for a replacement tank on eBay and if a cheap ones found in better condition than mine I might just buy it. Would'nt need to be Black in color I have a good painter who paints my race bikes who can spray black paint with the best of them. I would just let him paint it.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 11:41:48 am by roy826 »
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Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 11:49:11 am »
Not the best pics but everyone enjoys a Concours 14 stripped down. >:D

Fairly easy tank removal compared to a repairing a leaking valve cover.



The tea bag right after removal



Picture quality sucks I know, my phones a pos it flew off my Suzuki GSX-S1000 ram xgrip at 135 mph
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline Freddy

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 06:10:20 am »
That looks 'normal.'  By the way, you don't need to remove all that plastic to get the tank off.
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Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 10:24:49 am »
That looks 'normal.'  By the way, you don't need to remove all that plastic to get the tank off.

I removed the plastic to back check my recent valve cover oil leak job I did about 3500 miles ago. Plus I had a radiator guard to install which was easier with the certain plastic pieces out of the way. The plastic is not as bad to remove as everyone makes it out to be, I just snatch it right off. :)

As for normal I agree the filter didn't look that bad even with the rusty top portion of my tank being what it was. I suspect my issue is the pump itself. Replacement should arrive today.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 12:58:07 pm »
The pump and filter arrived promptly and well packaged. Install went smooth and everything fit back together as it should. Waiting on Kawasaki for the pump/tank o-ring. Didn't want to chance it with the old 6 year old o-ring however I have re-used many a Suzuki tank o-rings with no problems. Hopefully I will have that in hand by late this afternoon. If so look forward to the re-install of the tank and plastics later today and fire it up for a test ride. >:D
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline Just Cliff

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 01:46:56 pm »
The pump and filter arrived promptly and well packaged. Install went smooth and everything fit back together as it should. Waiting on Kawasaki for the pump/tank o-ring. Didn't want to chance it with the old 6 year old o-ring however I have re-used many a Suzuki tank o-rings with no problems. Hopefully I will have that in hand by late this afternoon. If so look forward to the re-install of the tank and plastics later today and fire it up for a test ride. >:D

Good to hear, I'm betting you're back in business. That filter looks nearly new, gotta be the pump.

This what a dirty filter looks like, but it did have 140,000 miles when I changed it!

Cliff   :beerchug:


Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 02:13:02 pm »
The pump and filter arrived promptly and well packaged. Install went smooth and everything fit back together as it should. Waiting on Kawasaki for the pump/tank o-ring. Didn't want to chance it with the old 6 year old o-ring however I have re-used many a Suzuki tank o-rings with no problems. Hopefully I will have that in hand by late this afternoon. If so look forward to the re-install of the tank and plastics later today and fire it up for a test ride. >:D

Good to hear, I'm betting you're back in business. That filter looks nearly new, gotta be the pump.

This what a dirty filter looks like, but it did have 140,000 miles when I changed it!

Cliff   :beerchug:

Dang that filter looks terrible Clff. Yes I suspected the pump from get go when I was swerving trying not to get hit by flying cars on the 285 in the far left lane trying to get out of harms way and not get killed doing it. Then at times through out the weekend it ran as if nothing was wrong with it. I didn't bother checking the old pump by the service manual recommendations, for $70 I'll just replace it and hopefully roll forward.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2018, 10:11:03 am »
It is back running. The new pump is super quiet and the bike is running good. I took it to redline first thing and no spit sputter/cut off or anything. I'm pretty sure I was riding on a failing pump for some time. The bike has more get up and go now across the rev range.

All total an $86 repair and a little of my time.  ;D
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline Deepsea

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2018, 12:03:44 pm »
 :PDT_Armataz_01_37: :goodpost: :1rij: now ride, ride ,ride. Glad you got it fixed.
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2018, 03:24:05 pm »
Mine looked more like Roy's when I got mine out at 50k.   I just cleaned in in mineral spirits and put it back in.  I did not know at the time you could get a replacement.   I bet it lasts another 50k no problem though.
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Offline roy826

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Re: Clogged up fuel filter or failing fuel pump
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2018, 06:09:19 pm »
Mine looked more like Roy's when I got mine out at 50k.   I just cleaned in in mineral spirits and put it back in.  I did not know at the time you could get a replacement.   I bet it lasts another 50k no problem though.

Bob the link I provided in my original post has the filters sold in 3s as a separate purchase verses buying the whole pump to get one.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F