Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: rcannon409 on November 03, 2017, 10:34:34 pm

Title: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 03, 2017, 10:34:34 pm
Fuel cut and why you should be interested

I'm posting this as a new topic is so it can be searched easily by everyone who is interested in this, and is thinking about getting their ecu flashed.  Also, so that the info doesn't get lost and buried in the middle of another topic. 

Disabled fuel cut is the main reason that I chose to use Ivan for the flashes on my C14 and Ninja 1000.

Before he was flashing ecus, there was a product that he designed and produced called an “FCE”.
Ivan's FCE combined with his PCV mapping opened the door to a whole new level of riding pleasure on my Ninja 1000 that could not be dealt with any other way at the time. I like to think of him as “the father of fuel cut elimination” since he was the first to identify it, and offer a product for it.


This was the page that described the FCE and used to have photos of the product.
www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/fce.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/fce.htm)

A simple Google search gets a ton of info:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ivans+FCE&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=Ivans+FCE&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

Ivan started offering the FCE for only certain bikes more than 10 years ago. .. it was a product that you had to cut wires and install terminals so you could plug the product in. He phased it out once he was able to do it inside the ecu.

I don’t like having abrupt throttle response. It takes away from my riding pleasure a lot. I guess I got spoiled by having fuel cut disabled on my other bike for more than 5 years now. I used to bug him about my C14 once in a while to see if he was going to offer an ecu flash for it. Now I’m so happy that he did finally.

The videos that Ivan made for everyone clearly show the cause of abrupt throttle response on today's bikes and particularly the C14, and how he fixes it.

This is why I really like his work. .. He understands motorcycle tuning better than anyone else that I have spoken to about it. He offers direct cause solutions to the problems that people have, and always gave me sensible direct answers to questions that I’ve asked him.

I think that everyone should be happy that he has chosen to make an offering for the C14 that finally fixes this bike properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue4SKOcHSUk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue4SKOcHSUk)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgBznc8yXJc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgBznc8yXJc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jrDHTcHwN4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jrDHTcHwN4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i2vCGnyuGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i2vCGnyuGk)


Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Deepsea on November 03, 2017, 11:46:02 pm
Fuel cut is how you control engine braking and I'm very interested in the results. However I have again gone back and watched the videos very very closely. It still appears to me that Ivan is smother and gentler on the throttle when showing the advantage of his flash than when demonstrating the stock values. This is not an equal comparison. I could take the same bike without any changes and show both results by using only throttle control. The only way to quantify/qualify this comparison would be to show the Data Logger results for the TPS alongside the other data. That way there is no question of equality of test results. If you really want them to be equal then use a programed servo motor to control the throttle. It's how we test changes on race engines when running them in a test stand.
  I have nothing against Ivan and I'm not in Steve's pocket. But Steve has been a paid member here for many years and often given free professional advice to all who asked. He offers information for troubleshooting whenever needed. As a result of this he has a reputation for honesty and absolute integrity. Ivan is not a member, never has been. He has never assisted anyone here with a problem. To me this means a lot. Steve has earned my respect. Ivan has earned nothing. His flash may be a good one but again he has not earned anything.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 04, 2017, 10:44:16 am
Getting back on track here because this topic has only to do with fuel cut and the man who identified it and disabled it many  years ago.....

Tell me how you can control engine braking if the injectors are off and the engine isn't running? Please explain?


BTW, I spoke to Ivan yesterday about his videos... the answer was "so people can easily identify with what their bike does.... Purely informational to easily see what fuel cut is, and it's jerky symptoms that make throttle modulation difficult".
 
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Deepsea on November 04, 2017, 05:44:59 pm
Fuel cut was not identified by one man but designed into the function of IC engines by design engineers many many years ago. When the throttle is closed the injectors are never completely off. If they were you would stall every time you closed the throttle. It's called "Idle speed". It's basic physics. An ICE is really just an air pump using combustion to create heat/pressure energy through increased air flow. When you use "Fuel cut' the engine doesn't just stop producing energy. The energy is reversed (over simplified) creating drag on the drive train which is also the source of power driving the engine when the throttle is shut and you're moving faster than idle speed. When you slowly taper off the fuel (no fuel cut) the reverse energy is minimized limiting the "Engine braking". Hard fuel cut = max deceleration, tapered fuel cut limits deceleration. This is basic High School Physics, or it was before schools stopped teaching and started indoctrinating. Before DFI came along we controlled this by using a separate fuel circuit and changing the "Pill" size. With carburetors this was controlled by the idle circuit along with the air jet size and the size of the primary fuel needle and it's position in the main fuel jet. More sophisticated carbs used an oil damper to control this and you changed the weight of the oil to change the deceleration curve. A "Standard day" graph was used to compensate for density altitude and temperature. 
  This science has been around for a very long time. There is no one correct way to alter the charistics of an ICE. Ten people can come to very similar outcomes with ten different methods. It doesn't make any one of them better or worse, just different.
  I stand by my observation that in Ivan's videos the throttle inputs are not equal and show skewed results.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 05, 2017, 10:03:38 am
If anyone looks at the datalog of "fuel cut enabled" and they take the time to read the comments below the video, Ivan explains that the logger's tachometer takes it's signal from the injectors... this freezes during fuel cut at the same time as the AFR goes flatline... proving that the injectors stop.

If the injectors didn't stop, the tach would not stop.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: old n slow on November 05, 2017, 04:56:49 pm
The injectors in my old 85 BMW would shut down completly if you closed the throttle and were above about 1500 rpms. They would automatically start working if you coasted in gear and got below thst rpm. My 96 Toyota does it too. So i would think a bike like the C14 does the same.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: old n slow on November 05, 2017, 06:43:54 pm
The injectors in my old 85 BMW would shut down completly if you closed the throttle and were above about 1500 rpms. They would automatically start working if you coasted in gear and got below thst rpm. My 96 Toyota does it too. So i would think a bike like the C14 does the same.

I am curious, not stating facts?
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 06, 2017, 08:42:23 pm
Oftentimes, when one looks deeper at a persons words, their honesty and motivation becomes clear. Here's an example :

First, posted by RCannon from THIS thread, Re Ivan:

 "He understands motorcycle tuning better than anyone else that I have spoken to about it. He offers direct cause solutions to the problems that people have, and always gave me sensible direct answers to questions that I’ve asked him.
   I think that everyone should be happy that he has chosen to make an offering for the C14 that finally fixes this bike properly."

  But then in contrast,  less than 5 months ago  RCannon posted THIS on "the other" forum:

    Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 / Re: ECU flashing now available
« on: June 23, 2017, 07:51:44 am »
This reflash stuff is interesting. If you dig around, you start to get  a feel of who is good for bike "X" and how that guy might be THE man on that specific bike.

I believe Steve is so far out in the lead, with regards to the concours 14, that no one else even comes close."

  Just to fill in the pic, RCannon had been asking me questions for about a year regarding my flash, and indeed, in the same response quoted above stated he intended to send me his ECU.

      More statements by Rcannon regarding Ivan:

  " I like to think of him as “the father of fuel cut elimination” "

   and

  "BTW, I spoke to Ivan yesterday about his videos..."

   Personally I think the fact is that Ivan likes to think of himself as the father of fuel cut elimination, And clearly you are speaking with him on a regular basis, which is why this thread exists in the first place.

  And here's really what the motivation is... in Rcannon's words from the first post -

 " I used to bug him about my C14 once in a while to see if he was going to offer an ecu flash for it. " - So now we see  RCannon feels responsible for Ivan's success, hence the salesmanship.

   So lets put all the pieces together. We have a guy who is bugging me, asking me questions about my flash for over a year, who has determined I am " THE MAN" on c-14 tuning. This same person  who then is also "bugging" Ivan to do a flash. HMMM.

  Without riding on my flash, he determines nobody will come close to Steve's flash.  But then a couple months later, still without riding my flash, he has determined that Ivan has "properly tuned" the concours ECU... and nobody will come close to Ivan's flash. 

   If you have read this far, you already know the truth of what's going on here.

  I'm not cracking on Ivan's work (though I'm glad he posted his datalog, because now I know how his flash will feel in decel)  but let's get real here... when you see RCannon's own words in contrast, you realize there's nothing believable in his statements. Nothing. He has no grounds to determine one flash better than another, and he played me to get info for Ivan.

  Another fact is that Rcannon had been an expired COG member for about 3 years and not even active on this forum UNTIL he got Ivan's flash, and then he re-joined just to be able to bring us the latest info on Ivan's flash... and each time Ivan added something to his site, or posted something on you tube (Ivan never did you tube before any of this). So again, clearly there's constant contact, and a determined effort to promote Ivan's flash to the COG community by one sole person who brought nothing to this community before this.

    In conclusion, there are piles of posts / testimonies from guys who got my flash and were pleased. But it's many different guys, not one guy over and over and over and over. 1 RCannon good review 100 times doesn't equal 50 good reviews from 50 different guys.     In the other flash thread, someone posted  that " flashing seemed like the IT world... theres several ways to get to the same place, and all of them are right". This is pretty appropriate... results don't lie.

  Where this goes now is up to you Roland. Do what you will,  but I think you are the worst thing to ever happen to Ivan.

  Steve




   

Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 06, 2017, 11:19:03 pm
I did ask Steve several questions, and was very interested in his flash.   Probably 1.5-2 yrs ago.....but, yes..I did.

Ivan did not have a flash for it, and the bike needed help.  I asked several questions as I was a very close to being a customer. I stopped asking questions after I asked about fuel cut, and how it was addressed.  The answer I received was not what I was looking for, and I don't even mean that in a negative way. That might be just  a "me" thing....so, I decided to either ...1....Wait until Ivan released the fix, or..2....Sell the 14 because it did not have the throttle response like my Ninja.

So, when Ivan released this c14 flash, it was  a big deal, for me, based on how much he had helped my Ninja 1000.  I tried other fixes on that bike (flash, power commander, butterflies removed) and nothing really worked very well.   Why is because of the fuel cut.

As far as info seeking, by me, for Ivan, he would not need it.  I believe he has 24 other flashes on everything from Honda to Harley.  If he was waiting for my assistance, this would have been a real problem.

Heres what is so cool about the fuel cut topic.  Dont take my word for it, go try it on your own bikes...and this is how you do it.



"When the throttle is closed the injectors are never completely off. If they were you would stall every time you closed the throttle. It's called "Idle speed". It's basic physics. "

This is a completely false statement.

Yes, the engine does stall every time you let off the throttle when fuel cut is enabled.

To prove this, all someone has to do is this simple test.

Put the bike in 2nd or 3rd gear and bring it up to 7000 rpm or so… close the throttle, and operate the kill switch on the handlebar  on/off/on/off repeatedly.
 
*****(do not touch the throttle during the kill switch operation)******

You will find that it makes no difference because the engine isn’t running.

The longer the decel time, the more time you have to repeat the test over and over.
Higher gears are better for this test because decel is slower and takes more time to come down.
You can hear and feel when the injectors come back on as you decel.

Why am I continuing to post about Ivan?

Very simple, I can’t stand nepotism. Being a “good ol boy” isn’t good enough anymore these days, it’s not fair to the rest of the silent members and non-posting people who read here . We don’t live in the dark ages. The guy fixed about $25,000 worth of my motorcycles.....yea, I was pretty excited when this flash was released.

A product should be judged on it’s merits and whether or not it does the best job for which it is intended, not who’s selling it.


I also asked Ivan to reflash my Ford f350, my Lexus and my Mazda 3. I've not seen those appear on his page.....soon, I'm sure???
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 07, 2017, 12:06:59 am
I did ask Steve several questions, and was very interested in his flash.   Probably 1.5-2 yrs ago.....but, yes..I did.

Ivan did not have a flash for it, and the bike needed help.  I asked several questions as I was a very close to being a customer. I stopped asking questions after I asked about fuel cut, and how it was addressed.  The answer I received was not what I was looking for...

Very simple, I can’t stand nepotism. Being a “good ol boy” isn’t good enough anymore these days, it’s not fair to the rest of the silent members and non-posting people who read here . We don’t live in the dark ages. The guy fixed about $25,000 worth of my motorcycles.....yea, I was pretty excited when this flash was released.



  Let's cut to the chase here. Let's not mince words. You state that about you were asking me about my flash, and almost a customer. that this was 1.5- 2 years ago. But I quoted you in my post above... on june 23, 2017. 4.5 months ago. so call your statement about being interested in my flash 1.5 years ago what you want... I call it a blatant lie.

  You say you didn't like my answer on fuel cut. PLEASE, since you were planning to be a customer 4.5 months ago PLEASE quote the question and answer I gave you about fuel cut. PLEASE. If you cannot, it's because it's another lie.

 And to make myself perfectly clear on how I feel about this.., please read -  I do not begrudge Ivan the opportunity to make a flash for this or any other bike. It's a free market, let the best product rise to the top. How I will deal with Ivan is by continuing to innovate and stay a step ahead. the winner will be the Concours riders, and that's fine with me. So again, let capitalism rule the day and I'll stand on my own.

  But while you say you hate nepotism, let me tell you what I hate... I hate it when someone who doesn't know me makes absolutely false statements about me and my product just to forward his personal agenda. You did that Roland, in your first thread. And now if Ivan so much as walks near his concours, you post it up on the forum. Every time he changes his website, posts a video, whatever, you post it up. Nobody does that for me, and I can't do it because it violates the rules of advertising on this site. But you're doing it with abandon.

  The part that gets me is that prior to this we never had a cross word. The last time you said anything about me / my flash was when you said I'm "the man" when it comes to the concours.  Just 2 months later (end of august this year) you had gotten Ivan's flash and you were attacking me personally. Huh????

   You are also inconsistent on why you chose not to get my flash.  Here is your statement from your first flash thread... these are your words:

    "To me, your ecu flash page feels deceptive, and the fact that you haven’t corrected it, just means to me that you want it to remain that way. I'm sure that you did not rush through the text that you put on your own web site?
   This bothers me a lot, and this is the reason that I didn’t spend my money with you. "

   NOW on this thread, in the post above. you're saying it was because you didn't like my (nonexisting) answer on fuel cut.

   
There's no point in engaging you on tuning. you can't tune. You called out my dyno charts as deceptive when YOU made the mistake in understanding them. It was your misunderstanding, not my attempt to mislead - the same chart is still on my page, and it is honest as the day is long.

  Keep posting Roland, but I'm going to keep posting your "inconsistencies" . Everyone sees the truth here, well almost everyone, except you.

   Steve

 

 
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 07, 2017, 12:57:05 am
I thought you meant the pm's from @ October 2015......The PM's are what came to mind when you asked about questions. 

Those were dated @ October 2015, and probably should have looked at the calendar closer.

 You even said, earlier, "  So lets put all the pieces together. We have a guy who is bugging me, asking me questions about my flash for over a year, who has determined I am....."  You know, at that time , you really were "THE MAN" on the concours 14.  But, times change, and you cant kill the messanger because of the message.

..so, I called it  a year and a half.....seriously?

If we go back to "THAT" thread, I did say and word some things that were not cool....and I did say I was sorry for that, and I am.....

I did not start this thread to attack, or direct people back to that first thread.

I seriously did not want to mention you in this thread. There were a few reasons why I did not choose your flash....ok, so big deal. 

Heres is what I was worried about, if I need to say why I did not choose your flash. A bottom line sort of thing.

I did not like the charts...Charts  that were revised after I mentioned them.  The massive 1.05 correction factor was removed (105% of reality...maybe, could be, Florida is hot and humid) as well as the fact the charts that were compared , with each other, were pulled in two different gears.

The fuel cut, too. I'll be surprised if you flash any more ecu's if you are not dealing with this fuel cut issue.

What I did not want to end up with was a jerky, jumpy throttle and updates I would have to be paying for as time went on.  Im sorry, but for me, removing play from my throttle cables is no fix.


So there.  Thats my complete list, unless I left something out. I may have.  I dont have an "attack Steve" list.

If you look back, I posted positive remarks about Ivans work, as did soemoen else.  Both of us were attacked within a few minutes.

I respect you are an advertiser here, but Im not sure that membership includes the right to shout down, and attack people who choose to use other products.




 

Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 07, 2017, 01:28:40 am
Here we go again with your lack of reading skills. this is what you posted, from june 23, 2017... 2 months before you posted about Ivans flash :

   
34
Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 / Re: ECU flashing now available
« on: June 23, 2017, 07:51:44 am »
Thisreflash stuff is interesting. If you dig around, you start to get  a feel of who is good for bike "X" and how that guy might be THE man on that specific bike.

I believe Steve is so far out in the lead, with regards to the concours 14, that no one else even comes close.

Steves already helped my riding situation.  I rat-holed the reflash money, and swore Id send mine in as soon as the snow made riding impossible.   Of course, that snow never really happened, and I was able to ride in each and every month, last year.

That would have never happened if I was not looking forward to downtime, and sending my ecu to him."

  Further you state this has something from PM's from oct 2015? That was my very first month I flashed. I have made several different concours flashes since then. I don't even know what you're talking about, please post it for all of us to see.

  and from the post above:

 
"I seriously did not want to mention you in this thread. There were a few reasons why I did not choose your flash....ok, so big deal.
Heres is what I was worried about, if I need to say why I did not choose your flash. A bottom line sort of thing.
I did not like the charts...Charts  that were revised after I mentioned them. "

  again, "inconsistencies"... Now there's "a few reasons " hadn't hear that before, but OK.... But what revision did I make to my charts? That I changed them from SAE which I think is a better correction factor but shows lower HP to STD correction factor, so they are apples to apples comparison charts with Ivan's, so folks aren't mislead by the numbers from different correction factors? you call that a "revision"? Where's the deception there?

  And finally you post :

  "What I did not want to end up with was a jerky, jumpy throttle and updates I would have to be paying for as time went on.  Im sorry, but for me, removing play from my throttle cables is no fix".

  Where's this jerky jumpy throttle problem you speak of? And what updates I'm charging for that not a completely new flash with a different personality with a different intended focus... And how is making a proper adjustment, like having throttle cables adjusted properly or idle speed set properly, how is that a "no fix"?

  I guess you can keep on rationalizing.  Whatever. Where are my hundreds of unhappy customers? Roland, just please, STOP.

Steve

 


 

 




 
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 07, 2017, 01:46:36 am
Steve, at that time, what I posted was true about you being the leader in this flash.  You were.

Ivan has posted on his site, " I will not discuss upcoming work, until it is 99% finished."

About halfway down.   http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm)

That applies to me, and to everyone else. 

So, people have said I hurt Ivan by posting here.  Now, I'm helping him?   With all these inconsistencies?

If I'm hurting him, you would be smart to let me continue?   

How about that fuel cut?  Did you find a better plan for it than you described to me? At some time.....I don't have it on my calendar.  Or, shall we go after me some more?

I hope the advertiser title does not allow you to attack members because of their thoughts and feelings?

No one should get sidetracked by the nonsense,.  This fuel cut deal is huge.  It's something you want adressed in a flash, no matter who does it.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 07, 2017, 01:56:54 am
Amazing... you called me misleading, and said I don't care about the concours community, that I'm all about the money, and now making clearly false statements about  my work, but then you cry that I'm going after you, a poor member just trying to express himself?  Wow, Hollywood couldn't make this stuff up.

   If you want me to address something I supposedly stated to you,  please quote it and cite where it came from so I or anyone else can look it up, like I've done with your statements. Otherwise.... whatever.

 Steve
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 07, 2017, 02:12:27 am
Steve, again.  I said I was sorry for past behavior, several times.  And I really am.  I should not have said that, or said it the way I did.  That was my mistake.  What I said was bad, and I should not have said it.

Hollywood can't make up fuel cut.  That is what was so cool about the topic, and why I was not afraid to bring it up.  My credibility can be zero....less than zero.  That won't change their result.

People are going to go out and try these tests on their bikes.  At that point, they will feel it, hear it, and understand.  At that point, it won't be about me, and my guess is they will want the issue adressed, no matter who brought it up.

Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 07, 2017, 02:20:18 am
That's OK  Roland, so I guess it's all good now.

  Just remember that in your (and Ivan's) zeal to crush me, Ivan tipped his hand by posting the datalog info. So now I know how his flash feels at that point... and we'll see the complaints they are going to have about that flash...  ;) 

  I think I'm done for now  :beerchug:  Steve

 
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Deepsea on November 07, 2017, 06:01:47 pm
 :great:
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 07, 2017, 09:43:36 pm
Steve, post number 47 in this thread is where I asked you about fuel cut, and mentioned it was a big deal, for me.  From december 2015.

You answered me in post 49.   

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/ecu-flashes-a-perception-problem/25/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/ecu-flashes-a-perception-problem/25/)

In post 50, I said, "Please put me on the list when 2 is solved.  Your explanation, or description, makes it 100% clear what I am asking for, but you described it better."
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 07, 2017, 10:40:08 pm
Steve, post number 47 in this thread is where I asked you about fuel cut, and mentioned it was a big deal, for me.  From december 2015.

You answered me in post 49.   

[url]http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/ecu-flashes-a-perception-problem/25/[/url] ([url]http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/ecu-flashes-a-perception-problem/25/[/url])

In post 50, I said, "Please put me on the list when 2 is solved.  Your explanation, or description, makes it 100% clear what I am asking for, but you described it better."


  Roland, this is the LAST time I'm responding to you. I'm tired of this, and so is everyone else. But since you brought up that conversation from post 47 to 50, , you'll see it supports all the facts I've laid out.

 1) you've been pestering me for 2 years, as I stated.

  2) your statement that I charge for updates is unfounded

 3) you refuse to think there's more than one way to skin the cat when it comes to fuel cut / deceleration. it's all here in my response to you from 2 years ago, post 49. I'm going to post it here, then LEAVE ME ALONE. EVERYONE IS TIRED OF THIS.

 
"Re: ECU flashes... a perception problem?
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2015, 11:29:58 pm »

    Quote



 2) The concept of decel braking and fuel cut may be getting interchanged here. Pretty much the stock bike just dumps power as soon as you back off the throttle even a little bit. Some call it engine braking. some call it fuel cut. When it's excessive, I call it annoying. I can't stand it. I am working with the map now to try to get a smoother version of decel. I might be onto something. no promises... But IF i can pull it off, and anyone I've flashed already wants the upgrade I'll do it for the cost of shipping.
"

   Now that's it Roland. I'm tired of proving you wrong. Steve
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Ingramite on November 07, 2017, 11:16:20 pm
I'm thinking about starting my own Flash Up outfit.
I'll call it......wait......FLASH And TRASH.....that's the ticket. :))
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 07, 2017, 11:22:56 pm
I hoped for just one more post...that would have been the post where you explained, or showed us how your flash deals with fuel cut.

Obviously, you dont have to, but Ivans posted 4 videos on the topic. ..it does not look like a big deal to show this, especially of someone has a dyno and data logger.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 07, 2017, 11:44:39 pm
I hoped for just one more post...that would have been the post where you explained, or showed us how your flash deals with fuel cut.

Obviously, you dont have to, but Ivans posted 4 videos on the topic. ..it does not look like a big deal to show this, especially of someone has a dyno and data logger.

I ride my bike on a road... I don't ride my bike on a dyno.. scenery sucks..
Let's face it bro, if you flash a couple hundred ecu's, and have zero complaints, over a few years... then just drop it..
Steve ain't a person that has to post a half dozen "testimonies" on his website, to justify anything, and frankly, he does well at keeping tight lipped about what he does... and should... as his final outcome far excedes what is necessary to place him as viable.

I take great insult, as he surely does.. we haven't spoken recently about this, but its on my agenda.. that such vehemently argued crap is being thrown about, with the concept of "one bike" owned by the developer, and thrown in our faces on a daily basis ( oooh, I made a rhime just in time...) over this silly argument..
And still, you have no clue as to what Steve actually does program into the flash.. not a single solitary clue...

He should NOT have tonreveal his complete data structure to you, or anyone.. which Ivan doesn't do either, he (Ivan) only usesnwhat he (again, Ivan) feels would help his selling point..

Lots of people, you included, haven't a clue.. I mean. %1 clue, as to how this programming, and structure works..

Just stop the insanity / justification, etc.,  and enjoy your bike... frankley put.. let those people who can read, understand, and see history.. and a timeline... make their choices...

I've promised the COG officers and director, I would TRY to be a nicer person and not be confrontive this year.. but it gets hard, being the ex-tech editor, to condone this any longer.

Next phone call you have with Ivan, tell him to put up, and become an industry member, and to get online, and support his b/s... and drop the drivvel as its you, against a heck of a lot of members right now, that just see a pig with lipstick as being a pig with lipstick..
And, a pricetag.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Deepsea on November 08, 2017, 03:54:18 am
Here, here MOB.  :great:
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: OKC14 on November 08, 2017, 01:30:06 pm
MOB with the KO... Gawwwd this was so great.  :)
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 08, 2017, 03:53:35 pm
Im not sure Id chalk up a win in my column, if I were flashing ecu's....

Look for it in your bikes. See if your tuner winning a forum argument helped your bike run better, or got rid of your fuel cut.

To prove this, all someone has to do is this simple test.

Put the bike in 2nd or 3rd gear and bring it up to 7000 rpm or so… close the throttle, and operate the kill switch on the handlebar  on/off/on/off repeatedly.
 
*****(do not touch the throttle during the kill switch operation)******

You will find that it makes no difference because the engine isn’t running.

The longer the decel time, the more time you have to repeat the test over and over.
Higher gears are better for this test because decel is slower and takes more time to come down.
You can hear and feel when the injectors come back on as you decel.

 
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Throttle 8 on November 08, 2017, 04:26:53 pm
rcannon409-----just stop please! I have tried to stay away from commenting, but reading your posts on Ivan's flash is like having to sit thru the ads they make you watch before you can watch a video. You like his flash---we get it! Please move on.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on November 08, 2017, 08:56:11 pm
rcannon409,

Have you ridden a bike with Steve's EVO flash?

Or any of Steve's other flashes?
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 08, 2017, 10:20:09 pm
rcannon409,

Have you ridden a bike with Steve's EVO flash?

Or any of Steve's other flashes?


Turbo, I don't need to....  I've ridden enough bikes without fuel cut disabled that I would never spend my money on a flash that doesn't include that.

(see my post on this board in 2015 that I have already referenced above)

You should stop by Ivan's shop since you are in his area and see if he would let you try his work firsthand so you can compare it yourself and see the difference.... maybe then you won't think that I'm an idiot.  :) :)
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Bugnut on November 08, 2017, 10:42:43 pm
rcannon409: Dude, I can feel the troll vibes off you that just won't quit. I have this image in my mind of a Cartman type behind a computer asking his Mom to wipe his azz after a bucket of KFC skins and cheesy poofs.

Drop it, and move onto the next squirrel in your periphery. Oh, look, Godzilla!

Mike
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Bob on November 08, 2017, 11:26:18 pm
This thread is doing nothing but creating anger.

MODERATOR - DO SOMETHING.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 08, 2017, 11:31:11 pm
This thread is doing nothing but creating anger.

MODERATOR - DO SOMETHING.

x 1,000,000.
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Deepsea on November 09, 2017, 01:14:47 am
It's not making me angry. What it is doing is showing how narrow minded RCannan is. Without experiencing Steve's flash he believes he's qualified to judge it. That's like telling everyone how bad XYZ's PFM Radio is without ever seeing the radio.
  RCannon I thought you were a better person than that. Oh well, it's not the first time I've been wrong.


Michael
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Hiddenmickey on November 09, 2017, 02:38:34 pm
Oh, please.  Don't stop now!!! :popcorncouple: :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: cappyg on November 09, 2017, 03:37:30 pm
It confirmed to me that I made the right decision to listen to the folks here when I was looking into buying an ECU flash as it was something I couldn't see or explain.  I trusted these guys on this board that I would be impressed with it and I am still very much impressed with it.  Smooth as silk!  Thanks again Steve.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: ConcoursKZ on November 10, 2017, 12:52:04 am
You guys are silly.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 10, 2017, 01:04:35 am
That's insulting when you guys compare me to someone who's only worth 10 million dollars.

I figured Susanne Sommers, or such. Or, that lady who has the mop movie....and I'm pretty sure I could have talked about any other available flash, and been just fine.

But, this is new,  and way different than anything else that's available.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Deepsea on November 10, 2017, 02:15:22 am
How can you say "Way different" when you haven't even tried any other?
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 10, 2017, 12:35:28 pm
The software he uses is a lot different than whats commonly available.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: OKC14 on November 10, 2017, 12:52:03 pm
U mad bro? *trollface*
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 10, 2017, 12:58:21 pm
   Back about 25 years ago, I had a couple Rottweillers. Absolutely sweet, loving dogs, but if you know anything about Rot's they are not to be trifled with.  There was this kid that lived next door, he was about 8 years old, and to say this kid was an idiot would be kind. My yard is chain link fenced. This kid would aggravate the dogs any chance he'd get. He'd yell at them and hit the fence with balls and sticks, and run up and down the fence dragging a stick so it sounded like a card in a bicycle rim. This made the dogs crazy. It was their fence, and they would go crazy barking at him. I used to have to go out and calm the whole situation down, and always tell the kid to stop doing that. He was very persistent, no quit in him, even when it would be in his best interest.

  So one day I hear this blood curdling scream out by the road. I look out the window, and I see the kid in the road, frozen with fear. He'd been taunting the dogs at the closed gate. But someone forgot to latch the gate. The dogs were out, and had him surrounded. I got out there quick, and got the dogs back inside the yard. The kid was crying and shaking, and had urinated himself.

   He never ever poked the dogs again.

  I probably posted this story for a reason.

 Steve
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Hiddenmickey on November 10, 2017, 01:35:55 pm
So Steve,

The reason the story is posted because your flash makes a Concours go as fast as rottweilers through an unlatched gate, or it will it make you pee yourself?  I have to ad, I could not be happier with the service I received from you and the flash.   :beerchug:
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Rev Ryder on November 10, 2017, 02:29:22 pm
It seems Steve has a LOT of Rottweilers these days. 
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Deepsea on November 10, 2017, 03:39:17 pm
I guess the fact that I have always used a PC with Windows qualifies me to judge Apple,  even though I've never even touched an Apple computer. Now that is some twisted logic.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 10, 2017, 06:19:01 pm
The injectors in my old 85 BMW would shut down completely if you closed the throttle and were above about 1500 rpms. They would automatically start working if you coasted in gear and got below thst rpm. My 96 Toyota does it too. So i would think a bike like the C14 does the same.

Im sorry that I missed this, yes, this is exactly what I am talking about, I posted the videos so that if someone wanted to identify the problem their bike has, they could see this demonstrated, and know that Ivan includes this in all his ecu flash.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 10, 2017, 06:24:03 pm
I guess the fact that I have always used a PC with Windows qualifies me to judge Apple,  even though I've never even touched an Apple computer. Now that is some twisted logic.

No, I think you misunderstood what I have said.

When I look for an ecu flash, I look for certain features.  If a flash does not have the features I'm looking for, then Its not something I would purchase. Thats why I held out for so long.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Deepsea on November 10, 2017, 06:42:58 pm
So by your definition eliminating the "Fuel Cut" is accomplished by not letting the injectors go completely shut (off) when returning the throttle to off after having been open. It's more complex but thats good enough for this. This means deceleration instead of being abrupt (injectors off) is controlled by a more gentle down sloping fuel table.
  Do I have this correct?
For me the term "Fuel Cut" doesn't just mean going completely shut but indicates any reduction of dwell time for the injectors. Fuel cut = any reduction of fuel supplied from 1% to 100%. Now we are back where we were several days ago when I said it's how you control the deceleration curve. Steve's flash, along with ALL of the others that mod the fuel tables, changes the deceleration characteristics bt changing the fuel cut. Windows, Mac, Linux makes no difference when the outcome is roughly equivalent. It doesn't matter who is tightening the bolt or what size/material the bolt is made of, as long as it gets properly tightened they are functionally the same.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 10, 2017, 07:01:38 pm
There is enough information posted here for anyone to make an informed decision for themselves, and if their jerky throttle bothers them enough to fix it.  According to the data logs above, the "fuel cut enabled" video shows the injector is completly shut off.  You can also see the bike ,on the dyno, jerking and blowing flames when he applies, and closes the throttle.

You can see it, and it's backed up by the data logs. 

The kill switch test will also show this.  I've had enough ecu flashes to know this is something that I won't be without.

Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: ConcoursKZ on November 10, 2017, 07:59:29 pm
   Back about 25 years ago, I had a couple Rottweillers. Absolutely sweet, loving dogs, but if you know anything about Rot's they are not to be trifled with.  There was this kid that lived next door, he was about 8 years old, and to say this kid was an idiot would be kind. My yard is chain link fenced. This kid would aggravate the dogs any chance he'd get. He'd yell at them and hit the fence with balls and sticks, and run up and down the fence dragging a stick so it sounded like a card in a bicycle rim. This made the dogs crazy. It was their fence, and they would go crazy barking at him. I used to have to go out and calm the whole situation down, and always tell the kid to stop doing that. He was very persistent, no quit in him, even when it would be in his best interest.

  So one day I hear this blood curdling scream out by the road. I look out the window, and I see the kid in the road, frozen with fear. He'd been taunting the dogs at the closed gate. But someone forgot to latch the gate. The dogs were out, and had him surrounded. I got out there quick, and got the dogs back inside the yard. The kid was crying and shaking, and had urinated himself.

   He never ever poked the dogs again.

  I probably posted this story for a reason.

 Steve

I had a neighbor that had a Rottweiler that the owner used to let out at 5am and go to work. It would bark non stop till about 6am when his lazy wife would get up and let it in. Someone told me if you put 3 nickels and a dime in an empty coffee can. Put the lid on it and shake it real haRd it will drive the dog nuts.  Everytime he barked, I shook the can. Within three days the barking stopped.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on November 11, 2017, 02:36:32 pm
rcannon409,

Have you ridden a bike with Steve's EVO flash?

Or any of Steve's other flashes?


Turbo, I don't need to....  I've ridden enough bikes without fuel cut disabled that I would never spend my money on a flash that doesn't include that.

(see my post on this board in 2015 that I have already referenced above)

You should stop by Ivan's shop since you are in his area and see if he would let you try his work firsthand so you can compare it yourself and see the difference.... maybe then you won't think that I'm an idiot.  :) :)

I haven't yet said that I think your an idiot.

But since you answered my question, and said that you've never ridden a bike with Steve's flash and still believe that you can tell that Ivan's flash is a much better product ... maybe you've just gone and shown it.   ::)

Your one person, with Ivan's flash and you really like it.   :)  You've never ridden a bike with Steve's flash so you really can't compare the two. :-X

I'm only one of the many on this forum who have Steve's flash, and to my knowledge there has only been one person who didn't like it.  But he also wouldn't accept the offer to flash it back to stock at no cost to him, including shipping, if I remember correctly.

I'm also feeling the same way "Bugnut" in post #33 and "Cap'n Bob" in post #39 feel.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Pittsburgh_Clem on November 12, 2017, 01:06:17 am
 :rotflmao: The gift that keeps on Giving
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: cuda on November 12, 2017, 10:07:57 am
You can't fix STUPID  ::)
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Daytona_Mike on November 12, 2017, 11:02:01 pm
I guess the fact that I have always used a PC with Windows qualifies me to judge Apple,  even though I've never even touched an Apple computer. Now that is some twisted logic.

Now that's funny!! LOL :beerchug: :beerchug:
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Baggerjohn on November 13, 2017, 04:27:52 pm
All this becomes moot when Joe Everyman can buy the interface and software required to re-flash ECUs.

Of course, the incidences of blown-up motors may rise as well.

/ducks and runs off to forum parts unknown... >:D
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Classvino on November 13, 2017, 09:51:36 pm
There is enough information posted here for anyone to make an informed decision for themselves...

I think that sums it up right there.

So that's the end of this thread, right?  No sense disseminating redundant data and/or opinions.

I know I'm not the only one that hopes so...

Jamie
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 14, 2017, 12:30:44 pm
Here are 3 recent threads that are all about fuel cut symptoms, but it is purposely not mentioned because he doesn’t want anyone to know what is causing everyone’s issue... Why?

Because he can’t fix it!  So why not blame the cause on something else.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/you-need-to-read-this- (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/you-need-to-read-this-)!/

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/throttle-tamer-questions/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/throttle-tamer-questions/)

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/driveline-lash-71937/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/driveline-lash-71937/)

Why does everyone refuse to accept this?

No such thing as bad student, only bad teacher… (Pat Morita – Karate Kid)

Does anyone here think that Steve will openly admit that he can't deal with this problem?
Just the very mention of it, and he threatens to tear me up like a Rottweiler, or something similar.

Just think of it, if anyone would go against him, this is how he will react to it… Just look at the one guy who openly had issues. How did Steve treat him? I suspect that there are quite a bit more that are afraid to post about it for the same reason.

C'mon people think for yourselves... scientific evidence is in your faces, and you still refuse to accept that your abrupt throttle cannot be fixed any other way?

BTW, here’s the original dyno chart from his site… the one that I had issues with because it was done in different gears, not a true comparison at all. Notice that the current chart on his site has this info removed.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 14, 2017, 01:18:03 pm
   You are really getting on my nerves Roland.

   To say I have not acknowledged fuel cut is a blatant lie. In fact, I posted about it in response 23 of this thread, and that's a re-post from 2 years ago. So as far back as 2 years ago I was posting about it. Let me repost again for you.

 "
 The concept of decel braking and fuel cut may be getting interchanged here. Pretty much the stock bike just dumps power as soon as you back off the throttle even a little bit. Some call it engine braking. some call it fuel cut. When it's excessive, I call it annoying. I can't stand it. I am working with the map now to try to get a smoother version of decel. I might be onto something. no promises... But IF i can pull it off, and anyone I've flashed already wants the upgrade I'll do it for the cost of shipping.
"

   So here's the bottom line on that... I have a different way of dealing with fuel cut than Ivan does.  I will say this, from a tuning perspective Ivan's method is easier for the tuner. He didn't have to do all the learning and experimenting I did, But along with all my work came some revelations and results that riders like... results that Ivan wouldn't have found, because he didn't have to look.

   I have already addressed the dyno chart stuff very clearly. Again, the stock run in 4th gear actually had the advantage of gearing, and my stock run is 5HP HIGHER than Ivan's... so where is the effort to lie on my part? It doesn't exist. I have posted this previously, but you keep it up.  Here's my final word on your allegations... My charts are the exact same charts. I don't care if you don't like them. Stop trying to obfuscate and lie.

  And did you notice that guys who had loose throttle cables adjusted them, and all was good? How about the guys that have low idle settings, think it's ok to tell them to get the idles where it should be, or valves adjusted in spec?

  I actually share information with everyone here. I shared the datalog info about the slow TPS response, and a no cost fix. And somehow that's wrong of me?

   At this point, we all see that you are clearly Ivan's shill.  Your sales technique is one of tearing down another product that you have no knowledge of, and taking a clear opportunity to make personal attacks as you go.

  If you notice, I have not attacked anyone else's work. I have not first hand knowledge to do so, therefor I can't make a judgement. We are very different in that, Roland. I deal in honesty and facts... you deal in obfuscation and lies.

Steve

 

 
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: RodWpg on November 14, 2017, 02:44:45 pm
Trump is president, what do you all think of that. How about guns. Maybe muslims, catholics or jews? Irish people are the best.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: kv5e on November 14, 2017, 03:26:40 pm
I think this thread has just about run its course guys.

Maybe take this offline?

Craig
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Baggerjohn on November 14, 2017, 04:21:14 pm
Trump is president, what do you all think of that. How about guns. Maybe muslims, catholics or jews? Irish people are the best.
As long as they come equipped with a happy switch and a can, it's all good.  :)
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: gPink on November 14, 2017, 08:29:56 pm
Just WoW....Talk about kicking a dead horse...
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Bud on November 14, 2017, 09:11:26 pm
Just WoW....Talk about kicking a dead horse...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8cpkwPAbY0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8cpkwPAbY0)



Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: old n slow on November 15, 2017, 12:04:09 am
Are you kidding me? Really? Please, don't stop now, you guys are too far in it. It is shorter to just bring 'er around the next bend and head for home!
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: kv5e on November 15, 2017, 12:18:16 am
Yep, any more "ad hominen" cheap shots will get a time out and/or moderated posting.

Let's find another thread and be cordial, this is not the best exemplar of COG.

Craig

Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: gPink on November 15, 2017, 12:25:26 am
ad hominen.....you got that in English?  :??:
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: kv5e on November 15, 2017, 12:38:12 am
ad hominen.....you got that in English?  :??:

 An ad hominem argument is one that is used to counter another argument, but it is based on feelings of prejudice (often irrelevant to the argument), rather than facts, reason or logic. It is often a personal attack on one's character rather than an attempt to address the issue at hand.

Craig
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: gPink on November 15, 2017, 12:52:10 am
Can you use it in a sentence?
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: kv5e on November 15, 2017, 12:58:55 am
Can you use it in a sentence?

gPink sometimes eggs on threads to see what happens. - OK

gPink seems to always have ulterior motives and is a liar about his motives. - Ad Hominem cheap shot. (not true)

Do the examples illustrate effectively?
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: RodWpg on November 15, 2017, 01:00:23 am
Can you use it in a sentence?

why just today I was making chili for supper, I asked my girl (she has a speech impediment) If I should add all the peppers or just some of them, she replied 'ad hominem'
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: kv5e on November 15, 2017, 01:01:29 am
 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Can you use it in a sentence?

why just today I was making chili for supper, I asked my girl (she has a speech impediment) If I should add all the peppers or just some of them, she replied 'ad hominem'
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: gPink on November 15, 2017, 09:46:57 am
Can you use it in a sentence?

why just today I was making chili for supper, I asked my girl (she has a speech impediment) If I should add all the peppers or just some of them, she replied 'ad hominem'

See there ... the thread has already lightened up.  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: cuda on November 15, 2017, 11:05:28 am
   You are really getting on my nerves Roland.

   To say I have not acknowledged fuel cut is a blatant lie. In fact, I posted about it in response 23 of this thread, and that's a re-post from 2 years ago. So as far back as 2 years ago I was posting about it. Let me repost again for you.

 "
 The concept of decel braking and fuel cut may be getting interchanged here. Pretty much the stock bike just dumps power as soon as you back off the throttle even a little bit. Some call it engine braking. some call it fuel cut. When it's excessive, I call it annoying. I can't stand it. I am working with the map now to try to get a smoother version of decel. I might be onto something. no promises... But IF i can pull it off, and anyone I've flashed already wants the upgrade I'll do it for the cost of shipping.
"

   So here's the bottom line on that... I have a different way of dealing with fuel cut than Ivan does.  I will say this, from a tuning perspective Ivan's method is easier for the tuner. He didn't have to do all the learning and experimenting I did, But along with all my work came some revelations and results that riders like... results that Ivan wouldn't have found, because he didn't have to look.

   I have already addressed the dyno chart stuff very clearly. Again, the stock run in 4th gear actually had the advantage of gearing, and my stock run is 5HP HIGHER than Ivan's... so where is the effort to lie on my part? It doesn't exist. I have posted this previously, but you keep it up.  Here's my final word on your allegations... My charts are the exact same charts. I don't care if you don't like them. Stop trying to obfuscate and lie.

  And did you notice that guys who had loose throttle cables adjusted them, and all was good? How about the guys that have low idle settings, think it's ok to tell them to get the idles where it should be, or valves adjusted in spec?

  I actually share information with everyone here. I shared the datalog info about the slow TPS response, and a no cost fix. And somehow that's wrong of me?

   At this point, we all see that you are clearly Ivan's shill.  Your sales technique is one of tearing down another product that you have no knowledge of, and taking a clear opportunity to make personal attacks as you go.

  If you notice, I have not attacked anyone else's work. I have not first hand knowledge to do so, therefor I can't make a judgement. We are very different in that, Roland. I deal in honesty and facts... you deal in obfuscation and lies.

Steve

 

 

Ya can't fix Stupid.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 15, 2017, 11:49:13 am
Im not anyone's shill, but I do think for myself.

Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Bruce_Reafsnider_TN on November 15, 2017, 12:03:17 pm
Im not anyone's shill, but I do think for myself.
Maybe not.  You're bashing a man over an issue that he says he's solved 2 years ago.  And the basis for your rejection of the claim is that he also suggests proper throttle cable adjustment.  I mean..c'mon!  Don't you properly adjust the air pressure in your tires.  The clutch cable, the brakes, the mirrors......all of it adds up to a properly set up and functioning motorcycle.  I don't care if Ivan's flash will twist the throttle for me without touching it, if the cables aren't right the action will not be optimal. 
Now tell us how your 'oops' moment and Ivan's webpage being removed simultaneously was just a coincidence.  Are you being paid to administer his site?  Are you providing content?  Tell us the truth, because right now your credibility is squat.  Throttle cut my hairy butt- unpaid advertisement on the site by a non-COG vendor ought to have had these threads locked long ago.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 15, 2017, 12:56:05 pm
Actually, I brought up a topic called "Fuel cut". It was about how Ivan dealt with it, complete with videos. Nothing to do with how anyone else may, or may not deal with it.

No, I don't have anything to do with any web page.  I'm barely able to text, and use a smart phone. Theres no way anyone would pay me to manage a web page. Thanks, there may be a compliment in there somewhere. I did finally learn how to use spellcheck and post links.

Hes the tuner I choose to do business with.  I've paid full price for the work I got from him, and he's never sent me money, or free product or  a paycheck.


Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: OKC14 on November 15, 2017, 01:42:42 pm
This thread really is the gift that just keeps on giving.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 15, 2017, 02:06:13 pm
Actually, I brought up a topic called "Fuel cut". It was about how Ivan dealt with it, complete with videos. Nothing to do with how anyone else may, or may not deal with it.

Another lie.

 From your very first post on this thread :

   
I think that everyone should be happy that he has chosen to make an offering for the C14 that finally fixes this bike properly.

   Clearly intimating that all other flashes are not done "properly".

   Again, obfuscation and lies. You can't even keep your own story straight.

  Steve

Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: BDF on November 15, 2017, 02:34:49 pm
Infamy. noun
From the Latin infamia through Middle English infamye.

"Billy, can you carry that infamy?"

Brian

Can you use it in a sentence?

gPink sometimes eggs on threads to see what happens. - OK

gPink seems to always have ulterior motives and is a liar about his motives. - Ad Hominem cheap shot. (not true)

Do the examples illustrate effectively?
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 15, 2017, 02:46:32 pm
Fuel cut, fixed properly, according to my standards.  I had experience with fuel cut, and without fuel cut, based on using ivans fce on my ninja 1000.

His fce also showed me that fuel cut was not related to engine braking.
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 15, 2017, 03:35:00 pm
Fuel cut, fixed properly, according to my standards.  I had experience with fuel cut, and without fuel cut, based on using ivans fce on my ninja 1000.

His fce also showed me that fuel cut was not related to engine braking.

  You are contradicting yourself, again.

 In THIS THREAD, you posted this:

 

Yes, the engine does stall every time you let off the throttle when fuel cut is enabled.


   So are you maintaining that a stalled engine decelerates at the same rate as an engine with power, even enough to idle with? Any person here who has ever driven anything with a stick shift knows that statement is preposterous.

 Please Stop. this is insane. Steve
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on November 15, 2017, 03:45:32 pm
Fuel cut, fixed properly, according to my standards.  I had experience with fuel cut, and without fuel cut, based on using ivans fce on my ninja 1000.

His fce also showed me that fuel cut was not related to engine braking.

Again you seem to be saying that Steve's flash does not "properly, according to my standards" address your issue with fuel cut.

Even after admitting you've never ridden a C14 with Steve's flash.   :motonoises:

Your showing yourself again Rolland.   :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on November 15, 2017, 03:49:48 pm
Any way ... my flash is better than any flash any of you have tried so far.

None of you have tried it, BUT, it the best out there, and it will cure all of your bikes ills.   :D :D
Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: rcannon409 on November 15, 2017, 05:41:35 pm
Fuel cut IS a stalled engine. .. what part do YOU not get?

No contradiction at all.
You just keep spinning and trying to twist my posts.


Your flash  cuts the injectors off during decel just the same as stock and it can easily be proven if anyone follows the kill switch test that I have posted several times in this thread.

Title: Re: Concours 14 Fuel cut - Ivans performance ECU flash
Post by: kv5e on November 15, 2017, 05:48:52 pm
Ok, we have had several iterations of the same thing over and over.

11- Blatant bumping - making a non-substantive post for the express purpose of bring the thread to the top of the thread list is discouraged.

I think it has all been said, therefore, this thread is locked.

If a new thread is started starting the same argument, then the new thread will go on moderation policies for offending posters.