Author Topic: Coolant Dribble  (Read 669 times)

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Coolant Dribble
« on: May 24, 2018, 01:33:55 am »
So folks Here is a question I've not seen. On the ride up to The Bun Cooler I stopped for fuel in Alamo NV. Put the 14 hunney on the center stand and saw a dribble of coolant dripping. A few table spoons. Aww Man! Filled up and rode her over to a shady spot. Put her back on the center stand and peeled some plastic back trying to find the culprit. No Joy. Ran the bike at idle to temp, fans kicked in and she cooled right back down. Rode her the rest of the weekend up to Kamiah watching the temp and checking at each stop for dribbles. Temp was rock solid and no spit. On the way home she did it again in Northern ID. Again just a few tablespoons. Rode home through traffic in Vegas at 90 deg temps. No overheating. Again cooling was rock solid. Pulled into the garagio and no spitting. Will be pulling plastic this weekend trying to find the issue. Fiche shows 2 o rings. Getting ready for 6 k to the nat. Anybody else ever seen this?
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 05:49:21 am »
Yes.
Found a leak between the radiator cap and overflow tank. Only leaked during pressure relief immediately after shut down.
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Offline Roger B

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 01:57:43 pm »
If you find any of the leak coming from near the water pump housing it could be related to your water pump and it needing to be replaced.   I had to replace one on a 2010 ZX14 a few years back with around 8k on it.   Check everything else first.

Offline Jet Fixer

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 02:12:44 pm »
Mark, as RogerB suggested, check your water pump.
I had an identical scenario two weeks ago.  Intermittent leak.
It’s easy to check.  Mirror and a flashlight.  Check the weep hole on the bottom of the pump.
Mine had dried crusty coolant showing outside and liquid in the hole itself.
If clean and dry, keep looking.     ;D

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 05:50:49 pm »
So folks Here is a question I've not seen. On the ride up to The Bun Cooler I stopped for fuel in Alamo NV. Put the 14 hunney on the center stand and saw a dribble of coolant dripping. A few table spoons. Aww Man! Filled up and rode her over to a shady spot. Put her back on the center stand and peeled some plastic back trying to find the culprit. No Joy. Ran the bike at idle to temp, fans kicked in and she cooled right back down. Rode her the rest of the weekend up to Kamiah watching the temp and checking at each stop for dribbles. Temp was rock solid and no spit. On the way home she did it again in Northern ID. Again just a few tablespoons. Rode home through traffic in Vegas at 90 deg temps. No overheating. Again cooling was rock solid. Pulled into the garagio and no spitting. Will be pulling plastic this weekend trying to find the issue. Fiche shows 2 o rings. Getting ready for 6 k to the nat. Anybody else ever seen this?


Check all the coolant line clamps that attach to the water pump, may be a mini leaker at one of them, I can't say that the waterpump itself should be needing replaced this early on, put anything is possible... even tho it is not a common happening by the reports both here and on the other site (probably only 3 iirc since '07). Also, look closely at the front of the cylinder block, by cylinder #1, down low, above the oil cooler... the coolant runs into the oil cooler, and there is a rectangular shaped "housing"  on the block, where coolant is combined/devided, for flow to both areas.. there is a rectangular rubber o ring sealing that housing to the block, which is attached using 2 bolts... recently someone had a leaker there, which was easily fixed, but a bit tough to find/analyze in verbal conversation Here..

Good news is that seal, and all the others for the waterpump, are available from Kaw, unlike the old C10 issues...
I noted all of those seal part numbers in my response to that fellow, and will try to find it for you, do a quick search tho in the meantime..
I have all the p/n's written down here, but see if you can find where I already noted them..

Here's one...
http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/another-coolant-leak-could-this-be-normal/msg632007/#msg632007

Also note, the microfiche was updated on the most recent models, to actually show all the seals in that waterpump...
Check the 2017 page for parts grouping on "water pipe"

It shows them, and also that rectangular one for the housing up front (92055-1402)
https://www.kawasaki.com/Parts/PartsDiagram/203135/2017/ZG1400EHF
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 06:08:07 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 10:47:32 pm »
Thanx Folks. I pulled the part numbers from the Ron Ayers fiche as well as the shop manual. And the Oil Coolant (Thx MOB). I'll report back when I get the tupperware off. I am perplexed why it seems self healing tho'. Run her up to the fans kicking on and shut her off (semi Hi Temp situation) and no spritzes. I shall report back. Another reason for paying dues (In more ways than one  ;))
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 11:55:18 pm »
Thanx Folks. I pulled the part numbers from the Ron Ayers fiche as well as the shop manual. And the Oil Coolant (Thx MOB). I'll report back when I get the tupperware off. I am perplexed why it seems self healing tho'. Run her up to the fans kicking on and shut her off (semi Hi Temp situation) and no spritzes. I shall report back. Another reason for paying dues (In more ways than one  ;))

Knowing water pumps, they never "self repair", once a leaker, always a leaker.. :truce: and they leak more when at temp, and operating pressure... ;)

That's sounding moreso like that housing seal I spoke of, on the cylinders by #1 base Area.. very similar to what takes place when the C10 thermostat top cap goes thru hot/cool cycles, and similar in the fact its a big o ring..(the one that turns to goo after a couple years)  when its hot, the aluminum parts expand, and no leak, but when it begins to cool, and shrink, and a vacuum is somewhat present, it leaks, then all traces dissapear till the next go around of thermal cycling. That housing can be seen in the fiche page I noted, (its not the oil cooler, but the rectangular housing that sits just above it,.with 2 screws holding it onto the block.) and recently someone asked about "where they're leak is coming from", which is how I bumbled.upon it.  Thank goodness we haven't seen a lot, or any I recall, of thermostat issues..that one is a p.I.t.a. to get to, and cleanup, before reassembling..just mentioning.
Good luck, I kinda hope its what I noted, as that is super easy to fix... and only a small$ item.
 :great:
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 12:05:09 am by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 12:23:33 am »
Agree. But that's the thing. Been through several heat cool cycles and she only pee peed twice over 5 days and 2600 miles. Been sitting in the garagio for 2 days now no leakage  :truce: Did see a drop just below the water pump on the first discharge. Seal goes it goes. Hose leaks it leaks. Scratching the head emoji. Will know more next few days. Glad you all have my back.
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 Traveler. It was a Blast Baby.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2018, 12:33:09 am »
Agree. But that's the thing. Been through several heat cool cycles and she only pee peed twice over 5 days and 2600 miles. Been sitting in the garagio for 2 days now no leakage  :truce: Did see a drop just below the water pump on the first discharge. Seal goes it goes. Hose leaks it leaks. Scratching the head emoji. Will know more next few days. Glad you all have my back.

You know I got your back.. ;)
No matter what. :beerchug:

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2018, 01:00:55 am »
Looks like Jet Fixer called it. Snivelling out of the weep hole. Pulled it apart and the ceramic seal has broken away on the rear rubber seal. 'Surprising these rotating seals are not for sale. Non rebuild able pump. Need to do some research here. I'm sure they are available somewhere. Ma Kaw doesn't make their own seals I'm sure. But need quick so a new water pump is on order. Thanks all. Another benefit of membership. Ya'll ROK.
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 Traveler. It was a Blast Baby.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2018, 06:09:39 pm »
Looks like Jet Fixer called it. Snivelling out of the weep hole. Pulled it apart and the ceramic seal has broken away on the rear rubber seal. 'Surprising these rotating seals are not for sale. Non rebuild able pump. Need to do some research here. I'm sure they are available somewhere. Ma Kaw doesn't make their own seals I'm sure. But need quick so a new water pump is on order. Thanks all. Another benefit of membership. Ya'll ROK.

???????? :??:

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
I gues you weren't wearing your "old man glasses" to read my post response #4 above.... with a link to all that...

They are available... I noted that they added them all to the 2017 microfiche for "water pipe" parts...
https://www.kawasaki.com/Parts/PartsDiagram/203135/2017/ZG1400EHF

Use a drift punch to remove the pin holding that outer parts on the shaft, pop the unit apart, and the mechanical seal is p/n 49063-0001
Internal shaft oil seal is 92049-0752.   Housing o ring is 92055-0771.   Cap seal is 92055-0770
Total for seals is $53.12. From Ron Ayers

Gotta beat the price of a pump... which they have 2 prices for... even tho one is a "replaced by" part number...
The original oldest pump number was 49044-0553 which is no longer available, and not referenced with replacement... wierd, then in later models it became 49044-0006 which was superceded by the 49044-0012, but if you punch in the -0006 p/n, the new part is $223.77
If you just punch in the -0012 part, it comes up as $235.00.  That's messed up...
Those p/n's and prices are Ron Ayers list.
Best of luck...
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 06:55:43 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Jet Fixer

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2018, 10:24:46 pm »
Glad you found your leak Mark.   I disassembled my pump in hopes of replacing seals or o rings.
What I found was a sealed spring loaded cartridge with two hat seals and a center shaft seal.
Replacement wasn't available through Kaw.   I took the cartridge to Parker Hannafin and Martin fluid power systems here in town.   They both said good luck.     :??:

I bought a new pump.  Oh well. 
The dealer here that services the local police bikes stocks them.  If you can't get one in time for the otp run, let me know. I'll pick one up and overnight it to you.    (Cheap overnight). 
Otherwise we'll see you in CC brother.     :great:

« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 10:31:32 pm by Jet Fixer »

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 10:53:48 pm »
Glad you found your leak Mark.   I disassembled my pump in hopes of replacing seals or o rings.
What I found was a sealed spring loaded cartridge with two hat seals and a center shaft seal.
Replacement wasn't available through Kaw.   I took the cartridge to Parker Hannafin and Martin fluid power systems here in town.   They both said good luck.     :??:

I bought a new pump.  Oh well. 
The dealer here that services the local police bikes stocks them.  If you can't get one in time for the otp run, let me know. I'll pick one up and overnight it to you.    (Cheap overnight). 
Otherwise we'll see you in CC brother.     :great:

So, I have to ask you also, did you read my posts above? :??:
What year was your bike?
I originally posted the seal thing a month ago...
Comments?
Questions?
Did I miss something, or err in my information? (Regarding currently available stuff...)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 11:00:18 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2018, 01:50:54 pm »
Thanks Both. I already ordered a new pump before I saw your post MOB. That being said I'll check these seals out and rebuild this pump. Keep as a spare if someone may need it someday.
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2018, 10:23:06 pm »
FWIW I was putting the new shoes on the 14 Hunney today and decided to go a bit deeper on this water pump. It seems that the rubber to housing,stationary (motor side) of the seal had some type of epoxy on it, which I originally thought of as a seal failure as it chipped off leading me to suspect this as the leaker (still could be). Did a magnifying glass inspection of the rotating seal. No cracks or chips in the ceramic faces or tears to the rubber accordion. The rotating ceramic seems to fit a bit loose in the impeller. Just for giggles I may try to use some RTV to close up the fit on the rotating and a dab between the stationary and the housing and pressure check. Stiil have a new one coming and the option of MOB's find. Lessee? Thanks again all  :great: :beerchug:
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Offline LakeTrax

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2018, 02:45:37 pm »
I had to replace the waterpump on my 2012 as soon as I bought it.(<500 miles)
There's a thread about my ordeal here somewhere-

At that time, the water pump was not rebuild-able and and an entire replacement pump was covered under warranty. By "not rebuild-able" I mean the individual seals/parts were not available from Kawasaki and there was no mention of any water-pump rebuild procedures in the FSM.

I wonder if at some point Kawasaki got tired of honoring too many replacement pumps and started selling the individual parts to save money? Are there water-pump rebuild procedures now in the newest version of the C14 FSM?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Coolant Dribble
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2018, 05:42:04 pm »
I had to replace the waterpump on my 2012 as soon as I bought it.(<500 miles)
There's a thread about my ordeal here somewhere-

At that time, the water pump was not rebuild-able and and an entire replacement pump was covered under warranty. By "not rebuild-able" I mean the individual seals/parts were not available from Kawasaki and there was no mention of any water-pump rebuild procedures in the FSM.

I wonder if at some point Kawasaki got tired of honoring too many replacement pumps and started selling the individual parts to save money? Are there water-pump rebuild procedures now in the newest version of the C14 FSM?

Don't know if it was added to the 2017/2018 manual yet, as they are always a bit "behind"... and as they just "added" that parts breakdown ti the microfiche a year ago, I doubt its in the paper book... I bet that it was done as an addendum to the dealers tech manuals, where they just sent them the added page or 2 of revisions to the prior manual from 2015/2016..
I have to assume from looking at the exploded microfiche picture, that they spec'd something like KawaBond to adhere that inner rubber seal in as Mark found.  It is kinda interesting tho, seeing them use an adhesive in there.... reminds me of the C10, when the majority of seal failures was simply the rubber lip seal "popped out" of its press fit spot in the housing, and created the commonly found oil leak so many experienced...the seal really didn't go bad, they simply popped out, because the press fit wasn't tight enough...
I hope this all isn't a precourser to a high incidence of pump refurbishing needed .....

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