Author Topic: Engine Mount Torque  (Read 11003 times)

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Offline Wild_Bill

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Engine Mount Torque
« on: January 04, 2013, 09:50:46 pm »
I have the bike all apart right now, just finished the valve adjustment, and thought I would re-torque the engine mounts.

If anyone wants to try this to get rid of any buzz here is what you need to do.


Tools needed:
3/8 drive
  12mm socket
  8mm allen wrench socket
  3" 6" extension
  ratchet
  torque wrench (one that can torque in a counterclockwise direction) beam style is best
floor jack and a piece of wood



Support engine with a Jack and block of wood (do not lift bike)

Loosen all engine mounting bolts, nuts, collars.            Handtight
Loosen subframe mounting bolts.                             Handtight

If reusing the bolts:
Remove front engine bolts (1 at a time) and clean with a wire wheel
Reinstall the bolt hand tight, do not torque.
Do this for all 6 bolts.

When its time to torque the bolt first remove the bolt and apply threadlocker
reinstall the bolt and torque to spec.


Tightening sequence:

1. Left engine bracket lower bolt            44 ft\lb.

2. Upper rear collar                         18 ft\lb.    216 in\lb.    Counterclockwise
3. Lower rear collar                         18 ft\lb.    216 in\lb.    Counterclockwise

4&5. Left engine bracket upper bolts         18 ft\lb.    216 in\lb.

6. Upper rear nut                            44 ft\lb.
7. Lower rear nut                            44 ft\lb.

8&9. Right engine bracket upper bolts        18 ft\lb.    216 in\lb.
10. Right engine bracket lower bolt          44 ft\lb.

11. Subframe bolts                           17 ft\lb.    204 in\lb

And for those who need a pix I made up a drawing
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Offline TJ

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 10:37:35 pm »
Excellent post, great info for people installing McEnterprise Bars

Offline nando

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2013, 05:24:35 am »
Excellent stuff Bill...thanks. :You_Rock_Emoticon:
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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 07:31:16 am »
    Nice write up Bill. I wrote the following paragraph for another thread pertaining to the accompanying photo in the initial post. But I will post it here as well.


    Just to point out. I think you will only see pictures loaded on this server, if your logged in with a user name. Guests may not be able to see such pictures unless they are linked to a host site. And these pictures appear to be on this server. So if your a forum subscriber, log in and the pictures will more than likely, magically appear.

Offline Don557

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 07:41:29 pm »
So, just to clarify:  the entire tightening sequence gets performed with the engine supported by the jack, or once the bolts are back in place hand-tight remove the jack?

Also, as I mentioned in another post, whether you do or don't reuse the existing bolts, I'd strongly suggest getting 8mm and 10mm taps (1.25 pitch) and running them down through the frame tabs to clean out any leftover loctite.

Offline Wild_Bill

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 08:03:23 pm »
I left the jack there till the job was done.
Do not put any wait on the jack it is there to stabilize the engine when you remove the bolts. You don't want the engine to shift when the bolt is out. It could be tough to get it back in.

Bill
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Offline Scott Bechler

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2013, 02:15:05 am »
Just want to point out that the 2010-12 service manual specifies 11 ft/lbs on the adjusting collars not 18. Also it says to "temporarily tighten" the left engine mount bracket bolts. When these manuals are translated to english it is not always easy to understand. I assume that means "lightly snug" because after torquing the engine mount bolts to 11 ft/lbs it says to tighten the left engine bracket and left front engine mounting bolt. Not sure how you tighten something you already "temporarily tightened". lol

Scott

Offline Wild_Bill

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 02:43:02 am »
The manual for the 2008 lists the torque for the engine collars to be 18 ft lbs.
So if you have a Gen1 model use 18 ft lbs, if it is Gen2 then use 11 ft lbs.

Mine is a 2009 so I used 18, I didn't know there was a difference between the years.

Bill
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Offline Tundra Tom

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2013, 12:52:04 pm »
Bill,
Did you notice any appreciable change in vibration when doing this?
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Offline Wild_Bill

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2013, 11:04:09 pm »
I had a nasty buzz from 2800 on up.
Bike was not much fun from 65 on up

Now it's silky smooth to 90. I have not been higher yet.

If the collars are out of spec you are twisting the frame, not good to do.

Bill
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Offline Tundra Tom

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 11:34:56 pm »
First of all a big THANK YOU to Wild Bill for posting this. While the C-14 is not completely smooth doing this cut most of the vibration and oddly enough the grips are now equal instead of the throttle side vibrating more.
I have tried everything to quell the vibration including torqueing the mounts. Trouble is I did not completely "relax" the engine by loosening all the mounts, resting it on a jack and re-torqueing in proper order.
The rear sleeves on the right side are a little tricky. They are actuated by a external hex on the long bolts (A), see drawing below . You need to remove the 17mm nuts on the left side first then turn the bolt (A) - sleeve (F) on the right side clockwise into the block to loosen the right side. Mine were over torqued from the factory and the upper sleeve was locked so I sprayed some lube on the threads to avoid stripping it (photo).
When tightening you turn them counter-clockwise out of the block into the frame to the specified torque. Then, in proper sequence, you torque the nuts on the left side. I used blue 243 loc-tite on all except the sleeves as the hex on the long bolt will keep these from turning.
Well worth the time and effort!  :great:

Moderators, since there has been many vibration threads, sticky this one?




« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 12:01:15 am by Tundra Tom »
"When my time has come I'd rather be in the Saddle then the Recliner"
1974 Kawasaki H-1 500
1975 Norton 850 Commando
2013 BMW GS 650 Sertao
2008 Suzuki Bandit 1250 Yes, I ride all four of them.:)

Offline Pistole

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 12:40:57 pm »
- very interesting.

- please do report back after you've rode it for a while. My experience is that immediately after that torquing procedure , the vibs are reduced , but after a period of time , the engine "settles" and the vibs return.

-

Offline Tundra Tom

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 06:05:32 pm »
I did this prior to a 3 day ride to Canada and it has not changed. I did use loctite 243 on everything but the sleeves into the block.
"When my time has come I'd rather be in the Saddle then the Recliner"
1974 Kawasaki H-1 500
1975 Norton 850 Commando
2013 BMW GS 650 Sertao
2008 Suzuki Bandit 1250 Yes, I ride all four of them.:)

Offline Tundra Tom

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2013, 11:57:43 am »
Just returned from the Idaho National Rally. 4010 buzz free miles, amazing how much less fatiguing it is to ride with reduced vibration. Before the engine re-torque laying my fingers on the levers at 80 mph. was like placing them on electrified tuning forks. I've re-torqued the upper mounts numerous times, relaxing the entire engine on a jack is the ticket. :great:
"When my time has come I'd rather be in the Saddle then the Recliner"
1974 Kawasaki H-1 500
1975 Norton 850 Commando
2013 BMW GS 650 Sertao
2008 Suzuki Bandit 1250 Yes, I ride all four of them.:)

Offline Lord Frederick III

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2013, 11:22:35 pm »
Thanks for this thread. I have recently bought a 2011 and there is some vibes which need to be tamed. Just a few questions:

Is fairing removal all that is required to do this procedure? Are both the front and rear engine mounts accessible?

I assume the collar and the spacer fall out when the long bolt is removed. Are they easy to access and realign?

How does the counter clockwise work on the long bolt? I assume its theads into the nut that is torqued to 44lbs? Wouldn't that also be removed counter clockwise? I'm trying to get my head around it.

Offline Tundra Tom

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2013, 12:57:21 am »
Dear Lord...... :D...sorry I had to do it.

I own a 2008 so I can't speak for the second gen though they are very similar.
You do need to remove the side fairings to access the upper/front engine mounts.
You do not remove the long, rear bolts. Loosen all the mounts and allow the motor to "relax". As Bill stated it's best to have a jack under it for support but not with enough force to cause binding on the mounts. I use a simple car scissors jack with a board.
As for the sleeves in my illustration above: You need to remove the nuts from the left side while keeping the bolt from rotating. You can then screw the sleeves back into the block (loose) using the right side  bolts. It sounds odd but keep in mind the sleeves lock the right rear of the motor by screwing them OUT against the frame. You then lock them in place by torqueing the nuts on the left side.
Be sure to follow the  sequence stated in the manual. Good luck and report your findings!
"When my time has come I'd rather be in the Saddle then the Recliner"
1974 Kawasaki H-1 500
1975 Norton 850 Commando
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Offline JS_racer

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2013, 10:13:32 am »
this is great, thanks guys.
did anything break or need to be replaced during this process ??

was the jack just lightly on say the oil pan with a block of wood ??

Offline Wild_Bill

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2013, 05:47:17 pm »
Some have had the front mounting bolts break, so be carefull they have locktite on them. Work them back and forth and they should come out OK.

The jack is used just to take the weight of the engine off the frame.

The rear engine mounts are unique in that there is a collar that threads into the engine block.
This collar is like a pipe that has a hex bore instead of a round bore.
The long bolt (that passes through the frame, collar, engine-block, spacer and frame) has a hex drive near the bolt head that turns the collar.

When you turn the bolt (and the collar) clockwise you turn the collar into the block and increase the gap between the engine and frame.
When you turn the bolt counterclockwise you turn the collar out of the block and decrease the gap between the engine and frame.

If you turn the collar out too much you are stressing the frame and actually putting a twist on the frame.

Think of the collar and engine as a telescoping rod, like a curtin rod.
If you retract the rod and put it into a box there will be allot of space between the box and the ends of the rod.
You can expand the rod till there is some tension on it and it will now stay in place.
If you increase that tension too much it will distort the box and push the sides of the box out.

This extra tension will try to twist the frame and this is what causes the buzz.

Hope this makes sense.

Bill
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Offline Lord Frederick III

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2013, 10:45:35 pm »
Thanks for the explanation. I think I get it  :great:

What the best way of breaking the bond on the front mounting bolts? Normally I'd get a rachet with a long handle and do it that way. Is there a better way?

Offline nando

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 08:45:03 pm »
I undressed Connie. I could not find this Engine Bracket to re-torque. Am I supposed to strip more stuff off than the fairing to get to this triangular sort of shaped bracket? I have a 2012. I saw a bracket that seems to bolt unto the tank, but I could not find this bracket here. Help?
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Offline jwolffie

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 03:52:04 am »
I undressed Connie. I could not find this Engine Bracket to re-torque. Am I supposed to strip more stuff off than the fairing to get to this triangular sort of shaped bracket? I have a 2012. I saw a bracket that seems to bolt unto the tank, but I could not find this bracket here. Help?
It is at the left front of the motor. I believe it goes from the frame to the head on the engine.

Offline nando

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 03:47:36 pm »
Is it different shape on the 2012?
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Offline LennyK

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2014, 07:54:25 pm »
Just returned from the Idaho National Rally. 4010 buzz free miles, amazing how much less fatiguing it is to ride with reduced vibration. Before the engine re-torque laying my fingers on the levers at 80 mph. was like placing them on electrified tuning forks. I've re-torqued the upper mounts numerous times, relaxing the entire engine on a jack is the ticket. :great:

This is exactly what I feel + the unclear left mirror, basically all the time, except for idle
So just re-torquing the upper mounts relaxed the "tuning fork" effect?
Honestly my comprehension is not to clear on the rear mounts.. This is why I wanted to go to tech day today... But health was a priority
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Offline MikeK

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2014, 09:22:27 pm »
There is a specified sequence for re-torquing the engine mounts, which includes left front, right front, and lower mounts.  Wild Bill did a nice graphic earlier in this thread that includes the sequence and torque values.  I would recommend following that sequence and NOT just re-tightening the upper/front mounts.

Offline LennyK

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Re: Engine Mount Torque
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2014, 01:54:52 am »
Yes I saw, and will follow..
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