Author Topic: Engine noise "knock"  (Read 998 times)

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Offline jeffsbig12

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Engine noise "knock"
« on: July 01, 2018, 01:12:07 pm »
Hi Cog members... I purchased a 2008 Kawasaki Concours14 ABS with 49,000 miles on it. Its needs some clean up,a little paint touch up,front tire,maintance service. Her's the main problem *** It Has Engine Knock***.. I drained the oil and inspected it more metal and it has a few small shaveings i could see and f course it was dirty. When you start it up oil light goes out and knock quites down somewhat,when you twist the throttle it has a rap "knock" Yes its pretty loud to the point I would not want to take it for a test ride!!! Any common causes , sounds like rod knock. Thanks Jeff  O By the way, any leads on where to find a used engine and what years will fit ???

Offline ZXtasy

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2018, 01:35:39 pm »
So even with good, clean oil it still knocks? How good is the fuel, fresh and all that? Look for loose engine bolts or fairing parts to, sometimes they can simulate an engine knock. Mama Kaw build some bullet proof motors for the most part and it is hard to abuse them to the point of failure.

Not sure about motor fitment, as 08 and 09 seem to be unique, but I can't imagine the others up to current being that much different that they can't be made to fit. Heck, I know a guy that stuffed a Ninja 650R motor into a KLR frame.
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2018, 11:29:27 pm »
I've not heard of a 1400 engine failure and to my limited knowledge, the 08-09 is not a 'unique' engine - but I'd be happy to be proved wrong. As you found metal in the drained oil you should cut the filter open to see what's in there.  I bought an 09 early last year that had a knock at idle.  It was caused by a tooth broken off a 2nd gear cog.  Test riding produced a very loud noise in second but just a 'light rattle' in all others.  Just a thought.


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Offline TimR

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2018, 11:47:24 pm »
Are you saying the "knock" doesn't go away? My 09 will often times rattle on a cold start up until enough oil pressure is built up to quite the cam chain tensioner.
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Offline Semiquick

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 08:38:22 pm »
My2010 rattles at cold start up. Goes away quick... 22k and only had it for a month. Traded a 1999 zrx1100 with 8k on it even up... I'm very happy. ;)
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Offline Red Fox

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 09:31:14 pm »
Hi ... I purchased a 2008 Kawasaki Concours14 ABS with 49,000 miles on it. Its needs some clean up, ...  I would not want to take it for a test ride!!!

Well, that's the ultimate 'as-is.'  Mine rattles on start-up only.  But welcome to the forum.
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Offline Rico

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2018, 12:32:38 pm »
Just in case, there are plenty of engines on Ebay for around $1000. See if you can find one near your place and go take a look at it. I have a friend who could rebuild it if you bring him just the engine.....all the way here in Tampa Fl.  :))

Just wondering, how much you get it for? depending on how much you paid, you could double or even triple your money stripping it apart and selling it on eBay. Takes a long time, but it could be done.
"Beware of the lollipop of mediocrity. One lick and you'll suck forever!"Brian Willson

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2018, 12:20:17 pm »
Does the noise sound like it's coming from the upper right side of the engine? I have some serious concerns about the vvt module locating pin failing. The fact is that the vvt weighs 1.5# and is located of the end of the intake cam. It's unique to the c-14; the zx 14 doesn't have one. 1.5# rotating at 5000 rpm is storing a pile of energy... and that energy has to suddenly slow and suddenly accelerated with hard downshifts and upshifts.

   I'm going to attach a pic of a failed vvt I have. As these bike get older / more miles / ridden harder, I think this failure is going to become more common. Riding a c-14 like a zx14 is fun, but like everything, there's probably a price to be paid.

  ETA, sorry, i can't find the pics, but here's a link to a thread with the vvt failure. clear pics on the first post.

   http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/found!!!-nybiomed's-'09-nonrunning-issue-has-been-determined!!!/msg501797/#msg501797

  Steve
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 01:02:48 pm by Steve in Sunny Fla »
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Offline Phil

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2018, 05:06:47 pm »
First post, and five days later, no response...

Offline Harry Martin

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2018, 12:55:28 am »
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"
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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2018, 01:13:08 am »


 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
welcome to the world of internet bike problem diagnosis..
great job, pay is immensely gratuitous, I have trouble finding ways to spend all the cash I get..

and then someone pops my balloon and tells the people how many engines they can buy on ebay... killing my income...
 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

kinda reminds me of the old
"how many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?"

"just one... but the lightbulb must be willing to change..."

sorry, carry on Harry,  :great: :great: :great:

I know you just love this one, it is still one of my favorites, after 40+ years...

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Offline Rico

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2018, 02:36:42 pm »
Does the noise sound like it's coming from the upper right side of the engine? I have some serious concerns about the vvt module locating pin failing. The fact is that the vvt weighs 1.5# and is located of the end of the intake cam. It's unique to the c-14; the zx 14 doesn't have one. 1.5# rotating at 5000 rpm is storing a pile of energy... and that energy has to suddenly slow and suddenly accelerated with hard downshifts and upshifts.

   I'm going to attach a pic of a failed vvt I have. As these bike get older / more miles / ridden harder, I think this failure is going to become more common. Riding a c-14 like a zx14 is fun, but like everything, there's probably a price to be paid.

  ETA, sorry, i can't find the pics, but here's a link to a thread with the vvt failure. clear pics on the first post.

   http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/found!!!-nybiomed's-'09-nonrunning-issue-has-been-determined!!!/msg501797/#msg501797

  Steve


I believe that is the wrong link.
My vvt makes a horrible rattle when I start the bike. Like 1 to 2 seconds long, then settles when it gets oil pressure.
Should I be worried?
"Beware of the lollipop of mediocrity. One lick and you'll suck forever!"Brian Willson

Offline ddtmoto

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2018, 09:52:30 pm »
A manual timing chain adjuster takes care of the start up rattle....
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Offline glenn 12

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2018, 10:09:21 pm »
my 2012 has had that rattle since new, some rattle more than others upon start up.
12 c-14, 91 vfr750

Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2018, 06:01:46 pm »
I would think if this is a VTT issue sprocket or chain issue you could check valve clearance and find it out of spec. then when taking apart to adjust valves would see the damaged?
Or if a Valve inspection is too much maybe a compression check because again damage to any of those components I would expect to cause timing issues and valves won't be open/closed in the right place?

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2018, 09:52:02 pm »
Hi Cog members... I purchased a 2008 Kawasaki Concours14 ABS with 49,000 miles on it. Its needs some clean up,a little paint touch up,front tire,maintance service. Her's the main problem *** It Has Engine Knock***.. I drained the oil and inspected it more metal and it has a few small shaveings i could see and f course it was dirty. When you start it up oil light goes out and knock quites down somewhat,when you twist the throttle it has a rap "knock" Yes its pretty loud to the point I would not want to take it for a test ride!!! Any common causes , sounds like rod knock. Thanks Jeff  O By the way, any leads on where to find a used engine and what years will fit ???

I'm not jumping into a VVT issue, but Steve has seen one, btu normally VVT function is not discernable unless the range of that cam is up in the 4000-7000 rpm range, where it actually is moving and changing timing..
I think also, the bike Steve is noting, had starting and running issues far beyound this "knock", preventing it from running...

same with the cam chain adjuster, they cause a 'tap/tick', but quiet down within minutes.. a manual camchain tensioner may be quiet, but it's not a real 'fix', other than to make it quiet (and if it's adjusted too much, and never needs adjusting for 20k miles... well, it was Too tight..)

But in my mind, more so I'd have to ask when the oil, and filter was last changed prior, and exactly what filter was used, both prior, and when the oil was replaced during the last process by o/p. (and any other oil changes prior..and filters...) Also when, if ever, were the valves inspected/adjusted, and by whom. Some 'knocking' noises are hard to pin down, as to exact location of the culpret, take for example the infamous starter clutch chain tensioner on a C10... to someone inexperienced, they may think it''s a rod chatter/knock, but it comes from the tensioner hitting the clutch basket...

I'd be doing some oil pressure investigation, to see it's up in the zone, and if the valves have never been touched, look closely...and inspect before going on.

I'm not quick to say one way or another the actual cause, or zone, as it's not in front of me, and I can't put my engine stethoscope on it to say... I will say looking foe an engine before getting down to some close investigation is kinda tossing baby out with the bath water...

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Offline Phil

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 06:22:51 pm »
I'm thinking it is more of a ghost problem, reported by said ghost, who has yet to return. I blame the poltergeist.

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2018, 07:10:14 pm »
I'm thinking it is more of a ghost problem, reported by said ghost, who has yet to return. I blame the poltergeist.

 :)) :))

Magic Man.... now you see me.... now you don't...


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Offline NYbiomed

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2018, 08:04:36 pm »
My C14, as noted above, would not idle unless it was fed throttle- a heck of a lot more than a knock, then she would peter out within a minute, it was certainly unrideable...it’s my conclusion that an oiler, or something related to a botched valve adjustment, caused my mishap. Poop happens, whatever, I’m way over it. I get inertia (I taught HS physics) and if my engine wasn’t cracked open before the fail, I might have a different conclusion. But, and take this for what it is, I knew the guy pretty well who did the valve adjustment and I can only state that I had to stop doing “business” with him due to a reckless, very binary, nature and several costly mistakes that I had to live with- the failed VVT being only one somewhat costly and less obvious error. I’m not looking to malign anyone, but there’s a bit more to the story than I ever revealed...

 :(
2002 Honda VTR1000F SuperHawk
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1999 Suzuki Katana 750   1993 Yamaha Seca II
1990 Kawasaki EX500      1983 Honda CB1000 Custom

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2018, 08:20:44 pm »
I do recall back when you had that issue, and as I noted, the bike simply wouldn't run correctly, let alone "have just a knock"..
I know you had a real bummer time with that...

out of curiosity, prior to that VVT failure, was that unit disassembled?, and if so, by whom, and why?
just curious, as it's not something I would disassemble willy nilly, and certainly has no need to be messed with during a valve inspect/adjust..
even so far as Kaw imprinted on it "do not disassemble"....
I'd be upset as you are, if someone did that, when they only needed to remove the complete camshaft... during the service.

bummer, didn't know that part... :truce: :-X

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Offline NYbiomed

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Re: Engine noise "knock"
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2018, 11:31:33 pm »
No, I’m sure the VVT was not disassembled or anything like that, just something “not right” when put back together that eventually caused the failure after a couple thousand miles and fortunately I was able to limp back home the 8 miles or so with my passenger riding pillion. To SISF’s brilliance he actually surmised it happened soon after an oil change and it’s well understood/known that the VVT is driven by oil pressure? So I see the connection, but I admit I’m not nearly so educated and experienced as you motorheads. I’m thinking an oil passage or Oiler (if that’s even the correct term) was simply not lubricating the area of the head. Actually, it really would not have been so bad If it was initially diagnosed correctly; ultimately we got a used head off eBay for $200 or $250 and it slapped right together again and has been tip-top since. But a trip to the Kawi dealer and buying a new VVT- before we knew the rest of the head was shot, blew about $1k for little to no repair or progress. This whole episode happened on a bike that only had around 13k miles on it and took about 6 months to play out. All in all, I’m not really sour BC if it had happened only a few years before, I wouldn’t have really Been in a position to fully execute the repair and folly, but these last few years have been very good for my Wife and I. It was only about 5/6 years ago that I recall looking at a bunch of bananas in the supermarket and wondering if I could afford to bring home a 3rd banana for my kids...real story...
2002 Honda VTR1000F SuperHawk
2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 ABS
1999 Suzuki Katana 750   1993 Yamaha Seca II
1990 Kawasaki EX500      1983 Honda CB1000 Custom