Farewell COG

[Bruce_Reafsnider_TN]

I admit, I don't know the whole story, but, it wouldn't be too hard to tell the NFG to "please accept this refund of any dues you have paid, your membership is revoked, and your forum access is recinded..."  In other words, thanks but no thanks, now GTFO...

Maybe I'm missing something here.

A 7000 post member isn't a FNG.

Not a fng, but fully capable of being a chronic douche.

Fred, you posted some great info about RaceTech Gold Valve Emulators back in the micpeak days.  It helped me to transform the handling of my old C10.  I wish you all the best going forward.

[NYbiomed]

Can we take a Poll between the 2 on who We/COG would like to keep? Pretty obvious "the other guy" would have to find a life someplace else.....and all in the COGdom would better off for it.

COG is now less than it was...and some sins can never be erased, no matter how much they try.

[ConcoursKZ]

So, let me get this straight... We are a group, owned by and controlled by the members, and we actually let someone join, be an azzhat, and that forces a most valuable member to tuck his tail and run?

WTF? Did DJ Trump join, and abuse you on twitter?

I admit, I don't know the whole story, but, it wouldn't be too hard to tell the NFG to "please accept this refund of any dues you have paid, your membership is revoked, and your forum access is recinded..."  In other words, thanks but no thanks, now GTFO...

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Are you sure you really wanted to say this or is it being read the wrong way?

[runnerb0y]

WOW.  Super sad to see this post from Fred.  As a near total mechanical noob, Fred's videos, tech articles and many posts have helped me to work on my own bike and he's individually assisted me in self diagnosing a peculiar issue my C14 was having.  That is a ton of knowledge, leadership and friendship leaving this forum.

Reading his post, I can conclude he's grown tired of the baloney that unfortunately goes on in every forum I've participated in.  Though I will say, it has been less frequent in this forum than many others I visit.

Fred if you're still reading.  Thank you very much individually and corporately for all you have done to make this place better.! You will be missed and I hope that after some time away, you might find you can chock up all the crap that is present in the internet/forums/world to just that, a few poorly behaved folks can really ruin things for a lot of us, but if you can tune them out, they eventually go away.

A step backwards for COG, thanks for all the past contributions.   

See ya over on the Wing forums Fred, getting exciting over there with less than 2 months to go! 

Totally agree with Jay on this one.

[Cap'n Bob]

   Fred, I have been there as you know and have also taken breaks. I'm not saying That I was always the perfect little angel in anything I was involved in. I'm sure you can also admit not by no means being perfect. With that said though, Your assertions that there was some sort of grudge against you has come across to me as true for years now. Obviously you know this as well.  The person in question stated it is and has always been about your selling a product in the wrong forum section. Although technically correct. It is by far not the only example that has happened either directly or non directly for years by folks. I would expect a little leeway and definitely with some long term members/contributors. It is also very apparent to me that it has been about anything Fred did since Fred became the tech editor. At least IMO. So no I do not see it is/was only about selling products.
   The person in question is not the first person to act this way. A lot of folks have had moments they are not proud of on the forum. This particular person has basically been this way as long as I have been around, which has been a fair amount of time now. Certain people can't help themselves in the need to be right and the authority on all matters. The problem is they are convinced they are right no matter how wrong they actually are. The same person quoted me just the other day to in what came across to me as his need to show his superiority over my post that contradicted his post. The problem is both his posts are IMO, wrong. Or the wiring diagrams for the C10 are. Who knows maybe they are and he is right.
   With that said, I hope you change your mind about retiring from the club. Maybe bringing this to light may actually shine a light that this person may finally see and make him realize. Probably not, but there is always hope. None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes. By all means that definitely includes me. People can and do change sometimes. Like other things, the first step is realizing there is a problem. And a lot of times folks don't realize there is a problem until a group of others point it out. If this puts me in the category of band wagon, so be it. I hate seeing people leave for reasons that can be corrected.

Can't comment on the C10 wiring diagram(s), as I haven't gone through them with a fine-toothed comb, but there is an error in the schematic of the J-Box. Found that when I was doing my piece on them in my column.

Thanks for that input Guy. Much appreciated for the clarification. I probably should have left that part out all together. The point probably came across differently than I planned. Whether or not right or wrong wasn't really the important part since the problem in that thread has been rectified. The point I was trying to make was the way of the response quoting me. Explaining the possibility that their may be a difference in the wiring schematic comes across a lot better than something to the effect of "as I was saying.......". Basically I took it as just disregarding everything I said because I must be a complete idiot. Not explaining why if their was a difference. So the point was more of the superiority complex that constantly comes across.
   

[Cap'n Bob]

Can we take a Poll between the 2 on who We/COG would like to keep? Pretty obvious "the other guy" would have to find a life someplace else.....and all in the COGdom would better off for it.

COG is now less than it was...and some sins can never be erased, no matter how much they try.

This is not Survivor. We don't just vote people off the island. When we have issues sometimes you need a go between to mediate issues. Although there have been problems in the past with folks. I can't see it where folks couldn't try to find common ground. You have two folks who have helped folks a lot in the past. I hate to hear lets get rid of someone who has been a part and a contributor to this club in many ways over the years. Yes maybe an attitude adjustment might help. But I don't think tribal council with a member being voted off truly helps anyone. If there could be no middle ground, well then we cross that bridge then.

[kathybrj]

The"ignore user" feature is awesome. 

[NYbiomed]

Can we take a Poll between the 2 on who We/COG would like to keep? Pretty obvious "the other guy" would have to find a life someplace else.....and all in the COGdom would better off for it.

COG is now less than it was...and some sins can never be erased, no matter how much they try.

This is not Survivor. We don't just vote people off the island. When we have issues sometimes you need a go between to mediate issues. Although there have been problems in the past with folks. I can't see it where folks couldn't try to find common ground. You have two folks who have helped folks a lot in the past. I hate to hear lets get rid of someone who has been a part and a contributor to this club in many ways over the years. Yes maybe an attitude adjustment might help. But I don't think tribal council with a member being voted off truly helps anyone. If there could be no middle ground, well then we cross that bridge then.

The Hottest Places in Hell Are Reserved for Those Who in a Period of Moral Crisis Maintain Their Neutrality
-Dante

[Bruiser]

This is indeed sad news Fred! I've always enjoyed your articles and insight. If you change your mind, I for one will welcome you!

[rrsperry]

Why isn’t it just like survivor? Isn’t this run for us, by US?

[4Bikes]

It’s not a reality show like Survivor. COG is first and foremost a owners group club. A club with at this point a commendable long history, that pre-dates the forum. There are many volunteers working in the background to make sure the club is successful and prosperous. We remain prosperous (for now) and a fun group to associate with by having a common interest, and that is motocycles for the most part, and at this point in time not necessarily even a Concours. The issues we are discussing are therefore not your typical Internet forum. The forum serves as a public facing entity for the club, and for many people including me six years ago, serves as the first contact point for COG.

Cap’n Bob knows my story. I thought I “knew him” from the forum, but really met him when he was the first person to greet me at my first COG event with a bottle of water as I was getting off my C-14 after a long ride. To me that is COG. If I were asking questions and receiving rude responses from primarily one individual on the forum, that would set a tone, and why would I travel and spend money to meet new folks that behave like that?  This is my primary concern about what most would agree is a history of abhorrent behavior.  A wrong first or lasting impression of COG the club.

Now that I’m more involved in COG and trying along with many others to make this club successful, it bothers me when some individuals can’t behave better on the public facing side. So, yes, I think the forum (in addition to its other purposes) is the public facing communication tool for the organization. We are an owners group, and a club, and I think we should be able to police individuals that are known to work in detrimental ways to good of the club. Think blackballing, like many clubs enforce. Sure in this case the offender offers advice, and assistance and some of it is great. However, working directly against the standing Tech Editor who is an impressive contributor in his own right, has an obvious negative effect. But further more, ongoing comments from many about stalking, belittling and degrading other members will take away from those otherwise great traits that the offender may have. 

So I think COG needs to decide if we want more contributing members like Fred and others that have left for the same reason, or whether we want this to be an anonymous forum and anything goes. If you don’t like it, leave, I think is the wrong direction. So given a chance, we should vote or have the Directors decide to keep the better ones if there is an obvious conflict.

[ZGirl]

Fred, this saddens us to no end. 

Bill and I had the pleasure of sharing breakfast with you at a national in Arkansas.  Bill is also an engineer by trade and it was much fun to see him enjoy another like-minded fellow.

I am so sorry to see many members leaving (yet another) site for "Coglodytes".

Social media may be a boon in some ways, but it seems to be undermining some social "face to face" or "voice to voice" relationships.  I really do not know what caused this (someone buy me a C-14, maybe I'll find out), but it hurts all of us.

Fred, we wish you well and thank you for all of the help you have provided over the years.   

Hugs to you and yours. 

[Cap'n Bob]

The Hottest Places in Hell Are Reserved for Those Who in a Period of Moral Crisis Maintain Their Neutrality
-Dante

  Rick I have to ask. Are you suggesting that I should burn in Hell for my response? I have not taken a stance of neutrality. Reread my posts if that is the impression you have gotten. If the first response is to burn people at the stake, we will soon have little to no members. I know I have had disagreements and made statements that could be considered controversial in the past. So I would be gone. Maybe you should ask yourself if you ever said or did anything controversial in anyway on this forum. More than likely we'd all be voted off the island. Maybe not to this extreme, but there are very few pure and innocent folks who could without a doubt claim to be perfect in respects to every thought and post. Again, not defending anyone. Just not too keen on this lynch mentality being the answer. 

[Cap'n Bob]

<snip>

Now that I’m more involved in COG and trying along with many others to make this club successful, it bothers me when some individuals can’t behave better on the public facing side. So, yes, I think the forum (in addition to its other purposes) is the public facing communication tool for the organization. We are an owners group, and a club, and I think we should be able to police individuals that are known to work in detrimental ways to good of the club. Think blackballing, like many clubs enforce. Sure in this case the offender offers advice, and assistance and some of it is great. However, working directly against the standing Tech Editor who is an impressive contributor in his own right, has an obvious negative effect. But further more, ongoing comments from many about stalking, belittling and degrading other members will take away from those otherwise great traits that the offender may have. 

So I think COG needs to decide if we want more contributing members like Fred and others that have left for the same reason, or whether we want this to be an anonymous forum and anything goes. If you don’t like it, leave, I think is the wrong direction. So given a chance, we should vote or have the Directors decide to keep the better ones if there is an obvious conflict.

Good post Steve. IIRC, this is a matter for the BOD who we vote into office. This should fall upon them to discuss and act in a way they feel is appropriate. This is not like Survivor where we vote folks off the island. This is more of a democracy where our elected officials make the calls and deal with the ramifications that may come with such situations.

[Bruce_Reafsnider_TN]

Bob, you and I have had some spats in the past.  That's normal among adults if you ask me.  No hard feelings on my part.  I think I'd still enjoy going for a ride, maybe sharing a meal or conversation with most folks on this forum.  But when you have an individual who seems to default to rudeness, sarcasm, and condescension, then there is definitely a problem.  No, expulsion, or even a time out, should not be the first option.  But if a person seems incapable of self-moderation it may be the only last option.  How many times does a guy get to be a horse's arse and everyone just says well that's just his nature?  If that behavior is driving club officers away then you need to take a hard look at said individual.  Is his contribution (past or present) really enough to justify keeping him around?  Do we keep the cancer while good men & women abandon the club and sign off from the forum?  I think it's a simple answer to a question we shouldn't have to ask.  So why aren't moderators or COG leadership addressing this topic?  I hope they are.  Who else needs to leave?  Pretty soon it will just be a single rude member on a dead forum.

[Cap'n Bob]

Bob, you and I have had some spats in the past.  That's normal among adults if you ask me.  No hard feelings on my part.  I think I'd still enjoy going for a ride, maybe sharing a meal or conversation with most folks on this forum.  But when you have an individual who seems to default to rudeness, sarcasm, and condescension, then there is definitely a problem.  No, expulsion, or even a time out, should not be the first option.  But if a person seems incapable of self-moderation it may be the only last option.  How many times does a guy get to be a horse's arse and everyone just says well that's just his nature?  If that behavior is driving club officers away then you need to take a hard look at said individual.  Is his contribution (past or present) really enough to justify keeping him around?  Do we keep the cancer while good men & women abandon the club and sign off from the forum?  I think it's a simple answer to a question we shouldn't have to ask.  So why aren't moderators or COG leadership addressing this topic?  I hope they are.  Who else needs to leave?  Pretty soon it will just be a single rude member on a dead forum.

 I do not disagree with you in anyway. I'm sure the BOD have already been discussing this topic. I'm sure they will take into account the comments in these threads as well as past threads. There is no doubt that this has been an on going problem for a while now. At some point the bad out weighs the good.  All I can do is trust their judgement.

[ZGirl]

Okay, this is the second traumatic COG forum rift I have encountered......  Can't we just all get along?

Language warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw

Seems as though I have seen this (COG) movie before.

[Lurch71]

4bikes makes a good point.  I’m practically new to motorcycles.  I’m a 46 year old guy that’s been riding for about a year.  I don’t know much but I’m learning by reading through different forums, talking to folks at MC shops, and people I know who have been riding for a long time.  I didn’t know anything about COG until I came across the forum after seeing a COG sticker on a used 2010 c-14 I saw in a shop in Paramount, CA.  In a way the forum is the face of COG.  It’s the first contact someone has with this great organization.  There was a thread from a couple months ago asking forum subscribers a list of questions related to becoming paid members.  Whether it’s true or not, this sounds like petty BS that is better handled behind the scene through private messages. 

[ZGirl]

After looking around a bit, I found the issue that seems to have initiated this thread.

I just want to say that I have met and enjoyed the company of both parties and have learned much from both of you.

I truly wish the best for all involved.

[Harry76]

Okay, this is the second traumatic COG forum rift I have encountered......  Can't we just all get along?

Language warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw

Seems as though I have seen this (COG) movie before.

There have been others, I myself started one three years ago when I encountered some issues, that thread was deleted and can no longer be seen.
I also don't understand why admins allow some to be dicks and run good members off who choose to avoid the drama.

[Jim Snyder]

There have been others, I myself started one three years ago when I encountered some issues, that thread was deleted and can no longer be seen.
I also don't understand why admins allow some to be dicks and run good members off who choose to avoid the drama.
[/quote]

I agree with Harry on this. If they know this is going on why not put a stop to it before it gets to members quitting. I know the moderators don't like to intervene sometimes but this is the kind of thing that will ruin the forum.

[ZGirl]

There have been others, I myself started one three years ago when I encountered some issues, that thread was deleted and can no longer be seen.
I also don't understand why admins allow some to be dicks and run good members off who choose to avoid the drama.

I refer to the original rift years ago that split COG into two sites. 

I really do not believe that either of them ever came out a winner. 

I will shut up now.   

[Hiddenmickey]

Sorry you are leaving.  I have enjoyed your posts and technical knowledge.  Ride safe.

[NYbiomed]

The Hottest Places in Hell Are Reserved for Those Who in a Period of Moral Crisis Maintain Their Neutrality
-Dante

  Rick I have to ask. Are you suggesting that I should burn in Hell for my response? I have not taken a stance of neutrality. Reread my posts if that is the impression you have gotten. If the first response is to burn people at the stake, we will soon have little to no members. I know I have had disagreements and made statements that could be considered controversial in the past. So I would be gone. Maybe you should ask yourself if you ever said or did anything controversial in anyway on this forum. More than likely we'd all be voted off the island. Maybe not to this extreme, but there are very few pure and innocent folks who could without a doubt claim to be perfect in respects to every thought and post. Again, not defending anyone. Just not too keen on this lynch mentality being the answer.

Lol, of course not Captain, it s simply a rally call. It's ok to have an opinion, I got the impression you were Switzerland or the Vatican in WW2. Besides, I believe the idea of "Hell" is a silly one.

 

[Old Man on a Connie]

I hope to meet you in person some day Fred. I have benefitted tremendously due to your hard and detailed work. From getting my suspension in the ball park to replacing my TPMS batteries and of course the first valve adjust. And my offer still stands, I'll fly you to Vegas, put you up in my house and introduce you to my sister to come out and work on my bike. OK, my sister may not be a great incentive but..............CU on the road brother.