Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Fred_Harmon_TX on November 26, 2017, 01:56:38 am

Title: Farewell COG
Post by: Fred_Harmon_TX on November 26, 2017, 01:56:38 am
I’ve been a member of this group now for over 20 years and an industry member for 6 or 7 years.  I’ve served this club as AAD for five or six years, AD for 2 years, and Tech Ed for about 8 years.  I have hosted a National Rally, untold numbers of regional rallies, and I founded the Wildflower Rally in the Texas Hill Country as well as the rally at Jacks in Arkansas that both continue to this day. I’ve donated free merchandise to numerous Nationals, held tech sessions, hosted events at my home, and worked with every single Executive Director since Tom Adams took over back in the 90’s.  I’ve been a member on the old listserver since about 1995, and have written so many technical articles and provided advice and help on threads that I would not even venture a guess at the number. I completely re authored a whole new Chalkdust for the C14 and have written technical content for the Concourier since I took over the Tech Ed position in 2009. I've sat in on COG board meetings off and on for over 18 years and have helped the organization through some turbulent times in the past. I’m an engineer by trade and have been working on bikes since I can’t remember. In the course of the last 3 years I’ve serviced over 200 motorcycles from folks all over the country, and have even worked on bikes folks have brought me from overseas.  Motorcycles are in my blood, and I can’t get them out.  Like many of you, I spend much of my time finding ways to improve them, customize them, service them, and make them work better than they were originally designed.  I’ve owned a total of 5 Concours motorcyles, 3 C10’s and 2 C14’s and I’ve worked on countless others members bikes.  I worked with the first person (Don Guhl) to crack the C14 ECU and we worked together to develop a way to reflash them that later became widespread and used by other vendors.  I have had the equipment and ability to reflash Concours ECU’s for free for some time now.  And yes, I made and sold a set of videos to try to help show folks how to work on their own bike, which now appears to have become something that is being leveraged against me to force me out of this organization.

Over the past year it has become apparent that I can no longer serve as your Technical Editor. Anything I would dare to post on the forum would be severely scrutinized, criticized, and torn apart by persons who are trying to force me to leave for their own purposes.  Knowing this, I have chosen not to post on this forum for some time, as it would obviously only end one way.  In light of all this, I am now far too soured to return. I couldn’t come back if I wanted to, my attitude will never be the same and I would be no good to you. So this will be my last post on this forum. I’m retiring from COG, resigning as Tech Ed, and as soon as the current supply of my videos that are already printed are sold out, I will not be making anymore. They will be forever removed from the market. I’m done. It’s been a fun ride, but it’s clearly time for me to move on. I’ve made a lot of friends in this club, and it will be sad for me to go. I wish you all the best.

Farewell and God Bless you all.

Fred Harmon
COG 2170
AAD, AD, Tech Ed
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: redline on November 26, 2017, 02:05:37 am
Fred, don't know what to say or think reading this.
Very sorry to see you leave.

Ted
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ZXtasy on November 26, 2017, 02:09:30 am
Dang! Was it something I said?

Good luck to you, life is too sort deal with the bullsh*t.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: gsun on November 26, 2017, 04:11:49 am
Too bad one member can cause this. Maybe he should leave and you can stay! He's a pain anyway. I have your videos and they have helped through two valve sets and various other things. Thanks for all you have contributed, Good luck in future endeavors and never say never!
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Jerdurr on November 26, 2017, 04:26:43 am
Fred, I have a copy of your cds and they are awesome. I'm sure sad to see you leave. Wish you all the best, and hope to see you back one day!
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Texas Concours14 on November 26, 2017, 04:31:09 am
Fred - Thanks for your contributions over the years. Indeed it is too bad that one poster (I think long-timers all know who) can drive a highly valued member away with non-stop unwarranted harping. The board has suffered for not having your input during the past year. Many of us have your videos; not being a mechanic I have found them to be extremely helpful in covering content that the manual does not (e.g., many details pertaining to valve adjustment). I hope you continue to perform C14 maintenance work!

Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Freddy on November 26, 2017, 08:31:21 am
Fred, understood.  Thanks from afar for your input over the years.  Ride safe.   :beerchug:

Freddy
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: C. Moore on November 26, 2017, 10:16:40 am
Fred, I know how you feel. As soon as I saw that post and your response in the valve adjust thread I thought something like this was going to happen. I'm very sorry to see you leave.  No way I do the valve adjust on the C14 without your video. I know what needs to be done but I doubt it will be unless others are driven away. Maybe they will be. Maybe I'll decide to sit it out come renewal time and believe me they will know why if they bother to ask. 
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: COGnosticator on November 26, 2017, 10:53:41 am
Fred it trully makes me sad to see this.  You have been an invaluable asset to COG and will be sorely missed.

Thank you for what you have done for COG and I hate to see this is happening.

I wish you the best and really wish you would change your mind, but it appears you won't.

I hope you leave your website up as it is an great help in doing work on the Connie.  I used it a few months ago to install an Ohlins shock and your pictures and step by step instructions made the install a snap.

I know you said it is your last post but hopefully you will come back to read what is said.

Again, thanks
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ConcoursKZ on November 26, 2017, 11:06:35 am
Sorry to hear that Fred. But it looks like this forum has run its course. I came to the same conclusion myself and did not renew  my membership this year. Like I said in an earlier post. It appears that some members are just lying in wait to attack others. Especially new members. Any subject, topic or idea that they don't agree with becomes an open Assault. Sadly but it's just the sign of the times. See you all on the road.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: 4Bikes on November 26, 2017, 11:07:30 am
Fred, I already knew your were the most important contributor that COG ever had. Thanks for reminding us of your vast number of contributions.

Please let COG find their way forward concerning this negative situation. We hope to welcome you back when the club gets this sorted out.  Given the circumstances you described, no one can blame you for your decision.  Hopefully this is a wake up call and will help us improve as an owners group. You will be missed and I sincerely hope you come back. Through your efforts, you have helped so many of us in ways that we cannot express. Take care.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Jim Snyder on November 26, 2017, 11:42:49 am
I don't even own a C-14 and this pi**as me off. How can one member using harassment and intimidation be allowed to make a contributing member quit.  Fred your input will be missed.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Just Cliff on November 26, 2017, 12:09:45 pm
I'm sure sorry to see this happen, I can't say I blame you though. Your contributions to this forum have been great & will be missed. There have been many good members leave already because of him. I'm sure there will be plenty more to leave before it's over. I've considered it myself because of this type of thing.

Hopefully we'll see you back when the board wakes up & gets rid of this A hole.

Cliff   :beerchug:
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: rrsperry on November 26, 2017, 01:09:06 pm
So, let me get this straight... We are a group, owned by and controlled by the members, and we actually let someone join, be an azzhat, and that forces a most valuable member to tuck his tail and run?



I admit, I don't know the whole story, but, it wouldn't be too hard to tell the NFG to "please accept this refund of any dues you have paid, your membership is revoked, and your forum access is recinded..."  In other words, thanks but no thanks, now GTFO...

Maybe I'm missing something here.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: rrsperry on November 26, 2017, 01:13:43 pm
Oh, As a thanks, I just ordered a set of videos. I really hope you reconsider.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: oldnslo_MO on November 26, 2017, 01:16:16 pm
I'm sure sorry to see this happen, I can't say I blame you though. Your contributions to this forum have been great & will be missed. There have been many good members leave already because of him. I'm sure there will be plenty more to leave before it's over. I've considered it myself because of this type of thing.

Hopefully we'll see you back when the board wakes up & gets rid of this A hole.

Cliff   :beerchug:
+1   :beerchug:
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Zarticus on November 26, 2017, 01:17:00 pm
Sorry to see you go Fred. I'm hardly on here anymore for some of the same reasons, I used to log on multiple times a day & now I'm on maybe once a week. I'll have a hard decision when my membership comes up next month. Thanks foe all you have done  :beerchug: 
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: jas on November 26, 2017, 01:20:03 pm
Wow, very sad...  I had an extensive post ready to go yesterday regarding the current situation on this forum, but didn't hit the post button. This forum is supposed to be about members sharing their experiences relative to bike maintenance, parts, or any other damn thing they think others should know. A very sad situation when members feel they should not post because of the "I'm right and you're wrong" BS. Fred, I appreciated your contributions over the years and missed your posts over the last year or so.  I purchased your videos and they helped me take on the valve adjust earlier this year.  To say that the price of the videos was worth every cent is an understatement.  Thanks and good luck!  Jeff
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: gPink on November 26, 2017, 01:22:05 pm
So, let me get this straight... We are a group, owned by and controlled by the members, and we actually let someone join, be an azzhat, and that forces a most valuable member to tuck his tail and run?

WTF? Did DJ Trump join, and abuse you on twitter?

I admit, I don't know the whole story, but, it wouldn't be too hard to tell the NFG to "please accept this refund of any dues you have paid, your membership is revoked, and your forum access is recinded..."  In other words, thanks but no thanks, now GTFO...

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Really? This adds value to the discussion?
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: RodneyW on November 26, 2017, 01:22:56 pm
I didn't renew this year for the same basic reasons Fred is leaving.  It just isn't right for COG to allow some members to act the way that they do.  A bad apple or two is ruining everything.  Everyone know this, yet it continues.  I do not even want to post a question or comment because I do not want to hear their superior dribble.  In contrast, I remember goofing up a little project, and you kindly told me "Don't worry about it, it was an easy mistake to make". 

I see this as an important time for the organization.  I believe that the organization will suffer greatly if things are allowed to continue the way that they are. 

Fred helped me, without constant reminder of how great he was.  The videos are awesome, not just for the content, but for how they get me into the correct mindset before I attempt mechanical work.  Slow, careful, maybe a little over-the-top slow and careful for me, but after watching I am sure that I am a better mechanic than before.  I'd love to see COG step up and make things right.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Cap'n Bob on November 26, 2017, 01:23:28 pm
So, let me get this straight... We are a group, owned by and controlled by the members, and we actually let someone join, be an azzhat, and that forces a most valuable member to tuck his tail and run?

WTF? Did DJ Trump join, and abuse you on twitter?

I admit, I don't know the whole story, but, it wouldn't be too hard to tell the NFG to "please accept this refund of any dues you have paid, your membership is revoked, and your forum access is recinded..."  In other words, thanks but no thanks, now GTFO...

Maybe I'm missing something here.


"WTF? Did DJ Trump join, and abuse you on twitter? "


This was also unnecessary and probably against the rules as well. Everyone makes mistakes (myself very much included). The person in question is also a long standing member and contributor. It's not quite so cut and dry as you make it.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Cap'n Bob on November 26, 2017, 01:49:24 pm
   Fred, I have been there as you know and have also taken breaks. I'm not saying That I was always the perfect little angel in anything I was involved in. I'm sure you can also admit not by no means being perfect. With that said though, Your assertions that there was some sort of grudge against you has come across to me as true for years now. Obviously you know this as well.  The person in question stated it is and has always been about your selling a product in the wrong forum section. Although technically correct. It is by far not the only example that has happened either directly or non directly for years by folks. I would expect a little leeway and definitely with some long term members/contributors. It is also very apparent to me that it has been about anything Fred did since Fred became the tech editor. At least IMO. So no I do not see it is/was only about selling products.
   The person in question is not the first person to act this way. A lot of folks have had moments they are not proud of on the forum. This particular person has basically been this way as long as I have been around, which has been a fair amount of time now. Certain people can't help themselves in the need to be right and the authority on all matters. The problem is they are convinced they are right no matter how wrong they actually are. The same person quoted me just the other day to in what came across to me as his need to show his superiority over my post that contradicted his post. The problem is both his posts are IMO, wrong. Or the wiring diagrams for the C10 are. Who knows maybe they are and he is right.
   With that said, I hope you change your mind about retiring from the club. Maybe bringing this to light may actually shine a light that this person may finally see and make him realize. Probably not, but there is always hope. None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes. By all means that definitely includes me. People can and do change sometimes. Like other things, the first step is realizing there is a problem. And a lot of times folks don't realize there is a problem until a group of others point it out. If this puts me in the category of band wagon, so be it. I hate seeing people leave for reasons that can be corrected.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Turtle on November 26, 2017, 01:55:50 pm


I admit, I don't know the whole story, but, it wouldn't be too hard to tell the NFG to "please accept this refund of any dues you have paid, your membership is revoked, and your forum access is recinded..."  In other words, thanks but no thanks, now GTFO...

Maybe I'm missing something here.

A 7000 post member isn't a FNG.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ZG on November 26, 2017, 02:19:20 pm
A step backwards for COG, thanks for all the past contributions.  :sign0098:  :campfire:

See ya over on the Wing forums Fred, getting exciting over there with less than 2 months to go!  >:D :)
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: connieklr on November 26, 2017, 02:29:26 pm
   Fred, I have been there as you know and have also taken breaks. I'm not saying That I was always the perfect little angel in anything I was involved in. I'm sure you can also admit not by no means being perfect. With that said though, Your assertions that there was some sort of grudge against you has come across to me as true for years now. Obviously you know this as well.  The person in question stated it is and has always been about your selling a product in the wrong forum section. Although technically correct. It is by far not the only example that has happened either directly or non directly for years by folks. I would expect a little leeway and definitely with some long term members/contributors. It is also very apparent to me that it has been about anything Fred did since Fred became the tech editor. At least IMO. So no I do not see it is/was only about selling products.
   The person in question is not the first person to act this way. A lot of folks have had moments they are not proud of on the forum. This particular person has basically been this way as long as I have been around, which has been a fair amount of time now. Certain people can't help themselves in the need to be right and the authority on all matters. The problem is they are convinced they are right no matter how wrong they actually are. The same person quoted me just the other day to in what came across to me as his need to show his superiority over my post that contradicted his post. The problem is both his posts are IMO, wrong. Or the wiring diagrams for the C10 are. Who knows maybe they are and he is right.
   With that said, I hope you change your mind about retiring from the club. Maybe bringing this to light may actually shine a light that this person may finally see and make him realize. Probably not, but there is always hope. None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes. By all means that definitely includes me. People can and do change sometimes. Like other things, the first step is realizing there is a problem. And a lot of times folks don't realize there is a problem until a group of others point it out. If this puts me in the category of band wagon, so be it. I hate seeing people leave for reasons that can be corrected.

Can't comment on the C10 wiring diagram(s), as I haven't gone through them with a fine-toothed comb, but there is an error in the schematic of the J-Box. Found that when I was doing my piece on them in my column.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Bruce_Reafsnider_TN on November 26, 2017, 02:39:25 pm


I admit, I don't know the whole story, but, it wouldn't be too hard to tell the NFG to "please accept this refund of any dues you have paid, your membership is revoked, and your forum access is recinded..."  In other words, thanks but no thanks, now GTFO...

Maybe I'm missing something here.

A 7000 post member isn't a FNG.

Not a fng, but fully capable of being a chronic douche.

Fred, you posted some great info about RaceTech Gold Valve Emulators back in the micpeak days.  It helped me to transform the handling of my old C10.  I wish you all the best going forward.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: NYbiomed on November 26, 2017, 03:09:05 pm
Can we take a Poll between the 2 on who We/COG would like to keep? Pretty obvious "the other guy" would have to find a life someplace else.....and all in the COGdom would better off for it.

COG is now less than it was...and some sins can never be erased, no matter how much they try.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ConcoursKZ on November 26, 2017, 03:55:34 pm
So, let me get this straight... We are a group, owned by and controlled by the members, and we actually let someone join, be an azzhat, and that forces a most valuable member to tuck his tail and run?

WTF? Did DJ Trump join, and abuse you on twitter?

I admit, I don't know the whole story, but, it wouldn't be too hard to tell the NFG to "please accept this refund of any dues you have paid, your membership is revoked, and your forum access is recinded..."  In other words, thanks but no thanks, now GTFO...

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Are you sure you really wanted to say this or is it being read the wrong way?
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: runnerb0y on November 26, 2017, 05:17:43 pm
WOW.  Super sad to see this post from Fred.  As a near total mechanical noob, Fred's videos, tech articles and many posts have helped me to work on my own bike and he's individually assisted me in self diagnosing a peculiar issue my C14 was having.  That is a ton of knowledge, leadership and friendship leaving this forum.

Reading his post, I can conclude he's grown tired of the baloney that unfortunately goes on in every forum I've participated in.  Though I will say, it has been less frequent in this forum than many others I visit.

Fred if you're still reading.  Thank you very much individually and corporately for all you have done to make this place better.! You will be missed and I hope that after some time away, you might find you can chock up all the crap that is present in the internet/forums/world to just that, a few poorly behaved folks can really ruin things for a lot of us, but if you can tune them out, they eventually go away.

A step backwards for COG, thanks for all the past contributions.  :sign0098:  :campfire:

See ya over on the Wing forums Fred, getting exciting over there with less than 2 months to go!  >:D :)
Totally agree with Jay on this one.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Cap'n Bob on November 26, 2017, 05:50:22 pm
   Fred, I have been there as you know and have also taken breaks. I'm not saying That I was always the perfect little angel in anything I was involved in. I'm sure you can also admit not by no means being perfect. With that said though, Your assertions that there was some sort of grudge against you has come across to me as true for years now. Obviously you know this as well.  The person in question stated it is and has always been about your selling a product in the wrong forum section. Although technically correct. It is by far not the only example that has happened either directly or non directly for years by folks. I would expect a little leeway and definitely with some long term members/contributors. It is also very apparent to me that it has been about anything Fred did since Fred became the tech editor. At least IMO. So no I do not see it is/was only about selling products.
   The person in question is not the first person to act this way. A lot of folks have had moments they are not proud of on the forum. This particular person has basically been this way as long as I have been around, which has been a fair amount of time now. Certain people can't help themselves in the need to be right and the authority on all matters. The problem is they are convinced they are right no matter how wrong they actually are. The same person quoted me just the other day to in what came across to me as his need to show his superiority over my post that contradicted his post. The problem is both his posts are IMO, wrong. Or the wiring diagrams for the C10 are. Who knows maybe they are and he is right.
   With that said, I hope you change your mind about retiring from the club. Maybe bringing this to light may actually shine a light that this person may finally see and make him realize. Probably not, but there is always hope. None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes. By all means that definitely includes me. People can and do change sometimes. Like other things, the first step is realizing there is a problem. And a lot of times folks don't realize there is a problem until a group of others point it out. If this puts me in the category of band wagon, so be it. I hate seeing people leave for reasons that can be corrected.

Can't comment on the C10 wiring diagram(s), as I haven't gone through them with a fine-toothed comb, but there is an error in the schematic of the J-Box. Found that when I was doing my piece on them in my column.

Thanks for that input Guy. Much appreciated for the clarification. I probably should have left that part out all together. The point probably came across differently than I planned. Whether or not right or wrong wasn't really the important part since the problem in that thread has been rectified. The point I was trying to make was the way of the response quoting me. Explaining the possibility that their may be a difference in the wiring schematic comes across a lot better than something to the effect of "as I was saying.......". Basically I took it as just disregarding everything I said because I must be a complete idiot. Not explaining why if their was a difference. So the point was more of the superiority complex that constantly comes across.
   
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Cap'n Bob on November 26, 2017, 05:58:24 pm
Can we take a Poll between the 2 on who We/COG would like to keep? Pretty obvious "the other guy" would have to find a life someplace else.....and all in the COGdom would better off for it.

COG is now less than it was...and some sins can never be erased, no matter how much they try.


This is not Survivor. We don't just vote people off the island. When we have issues sometimes you need a go between to mediate issues. Although there have been problems in the past with folks. I can't see it where folks couldn't try to find common ground. You have two folks who have helped folks a lot in the past. I hate to hear lets get rid of someone who has been a part and a contributor to this club in many ways over the years. Yes maybe an attitude adjustment might help. But I don't think tribal council with a member being voted off truly helps anyone. If there could be no middle ground, well then we cross that bridge then.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: kathybrj on November 26, 2017, 06:04:02 pm
The"ignore user" feature is awesome.  :great:
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: NYbiomed on November 26, 2017, 07:36:33 pm
Can we take a Poll between the 2 on who We/COG would like to keep? Pretty obvious "the other guy" would have to find a life someplace else.....and all in the COGdom would better off for it.

COG is now less than it was...and some sins can never be erased, no matter how much they try.


This is not Survivor. We don't just vote people off the island. When we have issues sometimes you need a go between to mediate issues. Although there have been problems in the past with folks. I can't see it where folks couldn't try to find common ground. You have two folks who have helped folks a lot in the past. I hate to hear lets get rid of someone who has been a part and a contributor to this club in many ways over the years. Yes maybe an attitude adjustment might help. But I don't think tribal council with a member being voted off truly helps anyone. If there could be no middle ground, well then we cross that bridge then.

The Hottest Places in Hell Are Reserved for Those Who in a Period of Moral Crisis Maintain Their Neutrality
-Dante
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Bruiser on November 26, 2017, 08:29:30 pm
This is indeed sad news Fred! I've always enjoyed your articles and insight. If you change your mind, I for one will welcome you!
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: rrsperry on November 26, 2017, 08:49:02 pm
Why isn’t it just like survivor? Isn’t this run for us, by US?
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: 4Bikes on November 26, 2017, 09:03:32 pm
It’s not a reality show like Survivor. COG is first and foremost a owners group club. A club with at this point a commendable long history, that pre-dates the forum. There are many volunteers working in the background to make sure the club is successful and prosperous. We remain prosperous (for now) and a fun group to associate with by having a common interest, and that is motocycles for the most part, and at this point in time not necessarily even a Concours. The issues we are discussing are therefore not your typical Internet forum. The forum serves as a public facing entity for the club, and for many people including me six years ago, serves as the first contact point for COG.

Cap’n Bob knows my story. I thought I “knew him” from the forum, but really met him when he was the first person to greet me at my first COG event with a bottle of water as I was getting off my C-14 after a long ride. To me that is COG. If I were asking questions and receiving rude responses from primarily one individual on the forum, that would set a tone, and why would I travel and spend money to meet new folks that behave like that?  This is my primary concern about what most would agree is a history of abhorrent behavior.  A wrong first or lasting impression of COG the club.

Now that I’m more involved in COG and trying along with many others to make this club successful, it bothers me when some individuals can’t behave better on the public facing side. So, yes, I think the forum (in addition to its other purposes) is the public facing communication tool for the organization. We are an owners group, and a club, and I think we should be able to police individuals that are known to work in detrimental ways to good of the club. Think blackballing, like many clubs enforce. Sure in this case the offender offers advice, and assistance and some of it is great. However, working directly against the standing Tech Editor who is an impressive contributor in his own right, has an obvious negative effect. But further more, ongoing comments from many about stalking, belittling and degrading other members will take away from those otherwise great traits that the offender may have. 

So I think COG needs to decide if we want more contributing members like Fred and others that have left for the same reason, or whether we want this to be an anonymous forum and anything goes. If you don’t like it, leave, I think is the wrong direction. So given a chance, we should vote or have the Directors decide to keep the better ones if there is an obvious conflict.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ZGirl on November 26, 2017, 09:14:09 pm
Fred, this saddens us to no end. 

Bill and I had the pleasure of sharing breakfast with you at a national in Arkansas.  Bill is also an engineer by trade and it was much fun to see him enjoy another like-minded fellow.

I am so sorry to see many members leaving (yet another) site for "Coglodytes".

Social media may be a boon in some ways, but it seems to be undermining some social "face to face" or "voice to voice" relationships.  I really do not know what caused this (someone buy me a C-14, maybe I'll find out), but it hurts all of us.

Fred, we wish you well and thank you for all of the help you have provided over the years.   :great: :motonoises:

Hugs to you and yours. 
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Cap'n Bob on November 26, 2017, 09:15:39 pm

The Hottest Places in Hell Are Reserved for Those Who in a Period of Moral Crisis Maintain Their Neutrality
-Dante


  Rick I have to ask. Are you suggesting that I should burn in Hell for my response? I have not taken a stance of neutrality. Reread my posts if that is the impression you have gotten. If the first response is to burn people at the stake, we will soon have little to no members. I know I have had disagreements and made statements that could be considered controversial in the past. So I would be gone. Maybe you should ask yourself if you ever said or did anything controversial in anyway on this forum. More than likely we'd all be voted off the island. Maybe not to this extreme, but there are very few pure and innocent folks who could without a doubt claim to be perfect in respects to every thought and post. Again, not defending anyone. Just not too keen on this lynch mentality being the answer. 
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Cap'n Bob on November 26, 2017, 09:26:25 pm

<snip>

Now that I’m more involved in COG and trying along with many others to make this club successful, it bothers me when some individuals can’t behave better on the public facing side. So, yes, I think the forum (in addition to its other purposes) is the public facing communication tool for the organization. We are an owners group, and a club, and I think we should be able to police individuals that are known to work in detrimental ways to good of the club. Think blackballing, like many clubs enforce. Sure in this case the offender offers advice, and assistance and some of it is great. However, working directly against the standing Tech Editor who is an impressive contributor in his own right, has an obvious negative effect. But further more, ongoing comments from many about stalking, belittling and degrading other members will take away from those otherwise great traits that the offender may have. 

So I think COG needs to decide if we want more contributing members like Fred and others that have left for the same reason, or whether we want this to be an anonymous forum and anything goes. If you don’t like it, leave, I think is the wrong direction. So given a chance, we should vote or have the Directors decide to keep the better ones if there is an obvious conflict.

Good post Steve. IIRC, this is a matter for the BOD who we vote into office. This should fall upon them to discuss and act in a way they feel is appropriate. This is not like Survivor where we vote folks off the island. This is more of a democracy where our elected officials make the calls and deal with the ramifications that may come with such situations.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Bruce_Reafsnider_TN on November 26, 2017, 09:30:50 pm
Bob, you and I have had some spats in the past.  That's normal among adults if you ask me.  No hard feelings on my part.  I think I'd still enjoy going for a ride, maybe sharing a meal or conversation with most folks on this forum.  But when you have an individual who seems to default to rudeness, sarcasm, and condescension, then there is definitely a problem.  No, expulsion, or even a time out, should not be the first option.  But if a person seems incapable of self-moderation it may be the only last option.  How many times does a guy get to be a horse's arse and everyone just says well that's just his nature?  If that behavior is driving club officers away then you need to take a hard look at said individual.  Is his contribution (past or present) really enough to justify keeping him around?  Do we keep the cancer while good men & women abandon the club and sign off from the forum?  I think it's a simple answer to a question we shouldn't have to ask.  So why aren't moderators or COG leadership addressing this topic?  I hope they are.  Who else needs to leave?  Pretty soon it will just be a single rude member on a dead forum.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Cap'n Bob on November 26, 2017, 09:36:49 pm
Bob, you and I have had some spats in the past.  That's normal among adults if you ask me.  No hard feelings on my part.  I think I'd still enjoy going for a ride, maybe sharing a meal or conversation with most folks on this forum.  But when you have an individual who seems to default to rudeness, sarcasm, and condescension, then there is definitely a problem.  No, expulsion, or even a time out, should not be the first option.  But if a person seems incapable of self-moderation it may be the only last option.  How many times does a guy get to be a horse's arse and everyone just says well that's just his nature?  If that behavior is driving club officers away then you need to take a hard look at said individual.  Is his contribution (past or present) really enough to justify keeping him around?  Do we keep the cancer while good men & women abandon the club and sign off from the forum?  I think it's a simple answer to a question we shouldn't have to ask.  So why aren't moderators or COG leadership addressing this topic?  I hope they are.  Who else needs to leave?  Pretty soon it will just be a single rude member on a dead forum.

 I do not disagree with you in anyway. I'm sure the BOD have already been discussing this topic. I'm sure they will take into account the comments in these threads as well as past threads. There is no doubt that this has been an on going problem for a while now. At some point the bad out weighs the good.  All I can do is trust their judgement.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ZGirl on November 26, 2017, 09:41:02 pm
Okay, this is the second traumatic COG forum rift I have encountered......  Can't we just all get along?

Language warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw)

Seems as though I have seen this (COG) movie before.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Lurch71 on November 26, 2017, 09:59:50 pm
4bikes makes a good point.  I’m practically new to motorcycles.  I’m a 46 year old guy that’s been riding for about a year.  I don’t know much but I’m learning by reading through different forums, talking to folks at MC shops, and people I know who have been riding for a long time.  I didn’t know anything about COG until I came across the forum after seeing a COG sticker on a used 2010 c-14 I saw in a shop in Paramount, CA.  In a way the forum is the face of COG.  It’s the first contact someone has with this great organization.  There was a thread from a couple months ago asking forum subscribers a list of questions related to becoming paid members.  Whether it’s true or not, this sounds like petty BS that is better handled behind the scene through private messages. 
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ZGirl on November 26, 2017, 10:22:13 pm
After looking around a bit, I found the issue that seems to have initiated this thread.

I just want to say that I have met and enjoyed the company of both parties and have learned much from both of you.

I truly wish the best for all involved.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Harry76 on November 26, 2017, 10:57:29 pm
Okay, this is the second traumatic COG forum rift I have encountered......  Can't we just all get along?

Language warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw)

Seems as though I have seen this (COG) movie before.

There have been others, I myself started one three years ago when I encountered some issues, that thread was deleted and can no longer be seen.
I also don't understand why admins allow some to be dicks and run good members off who choose to avoid the drama.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Jim Snyder on November 26, 2017, 11:05:56 pm


There have been others, I myself started one three years ago when I encountered some issues, that thread was deleted and can no longer be seen.
I also don't understand why admins allow some to be dicks and run good members off who choose to avoid the drama.
[/quote]

I agree with Harry on this. If they know this is going on why not put a stop to it before it gets to members quitting. I know the moderators don't like to intervene sometimes but this is the kind of thing that will ruin the forum.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ZGirl on November 26, 2017, 11:09:49 pm
There have been others, I myself started one three years ago when I encountered some issues, that thread was deleted and can no longer be seen.
I also don't understand why admins allow some to be dicks and run good members off who choose to avoid the drama.

I refer to the original rift years ago that split COG into two sites. 

I really do not believe that either of them ever came out a winner. 

I will shut up now.   :-X
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Hiddenmickey on November 27, 2017, 01:05:44 am
Sorry you are leaving.  I have enjoyed your posts and technical knowledge.  Ride safe.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: NYbiomed on November 27, 2017, 01:12:42 am

The Hottest Places in Hell Are Reserved for Those Who in a Period of Moral Crisis Maintain Their Neutrality
-Dante


  Rick I have to ask. Are you suggesting that I should burn in Hell for my response? I have not taken a stance of neutrality. Reread my posts if that is the impression you have gotten. If the first response is to burn people at the stake, we will soon have little to no members. I know I have had disagreements and made statements that could be considered controversial in the past. So I would be gone. Maybe you should ask yourself if you ever said or did anything controversial in anyway on this forum. More than likely we'd all be voted off the island. Maybe not to this extreme, but there are very few pure and innocent folks who could without a doubt claim to be perfect in respects to every thought and post. Again, not defending anyone. Just not too keen on this lynch mentality being the answer.

Lol, of course not Captain, it s simply a rally call. It's ok to have an opinion, I got the impression you were Switzerland or the Vatican in WW2. Besides, I believe the idea of "Hell" is a silly one.

 :)
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on November 27, 2017, 01:16:12 am
I hope to meet you in person some day Fred. I have benefitted tremendously due to your hard and detailed work. From getting my suspension in the ball park to replacing my TPMS batteries and of course the first valve adjust. And my offer still stands, I'll fly you to Vegas, put you up in my house and introduce you to my sister to come out and work on my bike. OK, my sister may not be a great incentive but..............CU on the road brother.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: The Wizard on November 27, 2017, 11:46:01 am
OMC let me know when Fred is coming and I'll have some friends load a multi m/c hauler to swap out some motors. I have 3 in Arizona to do. Will miss you Mr.Harmon
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: OKC14 on November 27, 2017, 01:04:19 pm
Very sorry to see you go, Fred.  I've always heard nothing but glowing reviews of you and your work on this bike.  Wish you all the best in your future endeavors, whatever those may be.

That said, this is the internet. I've always made it a rule in my own life to never take anything seriously or personally that is said about or to me on this medium, it's really easy to be a tough guy behind a keyboard. I find that most people when confronted in the real world have nothing but apologies and excuses for their behavior online. Its just way too easy to be a dick when there's no possibility of physical reprisal. That is the truth of the interwebs.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Doc on November 27, 2017, 02:47:50 pm
Very sorry to see you go Fred but I completely understand.  If you ever find your way to New England you always have food, shelter and drink at my place!
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Thud300 on November 27, 2017, 03:04:35 pm
Sad to read about what would appear to be a great asset to COG being leveraged out to the point where he withdraws support for the model. I'm sure his information, among that of others, has helped me get my C10 into better shape than when it was bought.

Ride safe Fred, and I hope things can smooth out.

Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: connie_rider on November 27, 2017, 03:39:57 pm
Really sorry to hear your leaving us Fred.
We're gonna miss you.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Dirtwiz on November 27, 2017, 06:03:12 pm
I'm no "Angel" but I have been on 3 different forums in the last 10 years. Thousands of people on the other boards and I have never seen comments like the ones this person makes or at least not as consistently. Earlier this year I checked with my AD and made sure I wasn't on "automatic membership withdrawl" and voiced my concerns. There was no surprise and I heard from another monitor who knew the problem well. I know of others who voiced concerns also. So sad to see Fred go and this is a major loss to our group obviously. Good luck Fred and sorry this had to happen but I get it. I will continue to buy items from Fred!!
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: smithr1 on November 27, 2017, 06:17:31 pm
Fred, You know I fully understand and support you in doing what you think is best for you.  I am doing the same thing.

I do have an opinion though.  If you view the forum as you would the country then all you are doing is letting the terrorist win.   There will always be those that view the world different and want to impose their will on you but moving out of the country you love because someone is making it less than perfect is not an acceptable solution in my opinion.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Rico on November 27, 2017, 08:17:30 pm
Fred, I never met you or knew much about you, but reading all these comments makes me feel terrible to hear you are leaving..... I bought SteveFl's Concours with many miles on it, SO, I bought your CDs to keep her for many more. Hope you change your mind.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: oldnslo_MO on November 27, 2017, 08:44:58 pm
Fred, You know I fully understand and support you in doing what you think is best for you.  I am doing the same thing.

I do have an opinion though.  If you view the forum as you would the country then all you are doing is letting the terrorist win.   There will always be those that view the world different and want to impose their will on you but moving out of the country you love because someone is making it less than perfect is not an acceptable solution in my opinion.
:iagree:
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Clip67 on November 27, 2017, 09:15:38 pm
I'm kinda new on here and was sorry to see this news!

Fred, I just ordered a set of your maintenance videos, and I don't even have the bike yet! I stress the yet part!  :motonoises:

It would be great if you reconsidered as it sure looks like you are a most valued asset to this community! If not, I can certainly respect your decision... Best wishes to you!
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Fred_Wa2gzw on November 27, 2017, 10:16:26 pm
I am sad to hear of your leaving Fred.  As far as I know you have always been a gentleman on the forum.  Your videos have provided step by step instructions to many of us on here allowing us to save thousands of dollars in maintenance costs. The group owes you a huge Thanks for the hours of hard work that you have provided that have benefited us all.

Fred Whitaker
Wa2gzw

ON A SIDE NOTE-I sincerely hope that the board members take a good hard look at this situation.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: JTX on November 27, 2017, 10:30:00 pm
The people who run this forum are real dumb if they don't simply ban the person causing the problem.


The only thing I could do as a reader was put him on the ignore list so I dont have to read any of his sniping.


Looks like this board is losing a valuable member, for a not-so-valuable-member.  Thats a shame.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: sininja on November 28, 2017, 12:47:12 am
^^^^^  agreed
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: gPink on November 28, 2017, 01:04:11 am
This thread has turned into quite the dogpile. I'm not sure which is worse, a MOB rant or this '#I've been abused by the MOB' bitch fest. I guess this is Mr. Harmon's revenge. Amazing display of maturity and the spirit of COGness.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: oldnslo_MO on November 28, 2017, 01:31:21 am
 let's call it a day folks... :deadhorse: :popcorncouple: :33:
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: khager01 on November 28, 2017, 01:43:52 am
Fred, I just bought my 1st Connie and joined this forum 4 months ago, but have already learned a lot from your posts, and your photo galleries.  I don't know you,  but it looks like you have done a lot for this group, not just in technical expertise,  but also in organizing rides and events.  Even though I am pretty mechanically inclined, and I have the FSM ,  I am a greenhorn when it comes to this bike, so  I just ordered a set of your videos, because you can't have too much information.  Still hope to meet you someday.

Kevin Hager
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Salish14 on November 28, 2017, 02:20:21 am
Well damn. I'm no insider but for a forum to lose a guy like Fred is just bad, bad, bad. I bought the videos and am so grateful I can't say it. Fred, thank you.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: LakeTrax on November 28, 2017, 04:00:52 am
This thread has turned into quite the dogpile. I'm not sure which is worse, a MOB rant or this '#I've been abused by the MOB' bitch fest. I guess this is Mr. Harmon's revenge. Amazing display of maturity and the spirit of COGness.
Agreed. What a dogpile-
Sold my C14 earlier this year. I read this crap and for the first time it kinda makes me thankful that I did-

I don’t care what anyone here says or wants to believe... truth is NO ONE is getting rich off of any aftermarket Kawasaki Concours sale, service, or product.  ::) :-[
Get over it-

As if we couldn’t tell from the last 5,000 abrasive posts, it has now become apparent that there is some sort of axe to grind here. Looks like the grinding wheel finally had enough friction, blew its bearings, and is rolling on.
Painful to watch really-
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Bruiser on November 28, 2017, 04:40:03 am
I’ve been a member of this group now for over 20 years and an industry member for 6 or 7 years.  I’ve served this club as AAD for five or six years, AD for 2 years, and Tech Ed for about 8 years.  I have hosted a National Rally, untold numbers of regional rallies, and I founded the Wildflower Rally in the Texas Hill Country as well as the rally at Jacks in Arkansas that both continue to this day. I’ve donated free merchandise to numerous Nationals, held tech sessions, hosted events at my home, and worked with every single Executive Director since Tom Adams took over back in the 90’s.  I’ve been a member on the old listserver since about 1995, and have written so many technical articles and provided advice and help on threads that I would not even venture a guess at the number. I completely re authored a whole new Chalkdust for the C14 and have written technical content for the Concourier since I took over the Tech Ed position in 2009. I've sat in on COG board meetings off and on for over 18 years and have helped the organization through some turbulent times in the past. I’m an engineer by trade and have been working on bikes since I can’t remember. In the course of the last 3 years I’ve serviced over 200 motorcycles from folks all over the country, and have even worked on bikes folks have brought me from overseas.  Motorcycles are in my blood, and I can’t get them out.  Like many of you, I spend much of my time finding ways to improve them, customize them, service them, and make them work better than they were originally designed.  I’ve owned a total of 5 Concours motorcyles, 3 C10’s and 2 C14’s and I’ve worked on countless others members bikes.  I worked with the first person (Don Guhl) to crack the C14 ECU and we worked together to develop a way to reflash them that later became widespread and used by other vendors.  I have had the equipment and ability to reflash Concours ECU’s for free for some time now.  And yes, I made and sold a set of videos to try to help show folks how to work on their own bike, which now appears to have become something that is being leveraged against me to force me out of this organization.

Over the past year it has become apparent that I can no longer serve as your Technical Editor. Anything I would dare to post on the forum would be severely scrutinized, criticized, and torn apart by persons who are trying to force me to leave for their own purposes.  Knowing this, I have chosen not to post on this forum for some time, as it would obviously only end one way.  In light of all this, I am now far too soured to return. I couldn’t come back if I wanted to, my attitude will never be the same and I would be no good to you. So this will be my last post on this forum. I’m retiring from COG, resigning as Tech Ed, and as soon as the current supply of my videos that are already printed are sold out, I will not be making anymore. They will be forever removed from the market. I’m done. It’s been a fun ride, but it’s clearly time for me to move on. I’ve made a lot of friends in this club, and it will be sad for me to go. I wish you all the best.

Farewell and God Bless you all.

Fred Harmon
COG 2170
AAD, AD, Tech Ed
Fred, are the videos still $80 for the full set? I just looked at the website and wasn't sure if the price has changed. Bruce
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: bowtie39 on November 28, 2017, 07:43:45 pm
Bruiser.....don't think I would expect a answer from him here.  Make the phone call or email
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Fisher on November 29, 2017, 12:24:28 am
A lot of talent just walked out the door! It's a shame!
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: stevewfl on November 29, 2017, 04:09:16 am
Fred, I never met you or knew much about you, but reading all these comments makes me feel terrible to hear you are leaving..... I bought SteveFl's Concours with many miles on it, SO, I bought your CDs to keep her for many more. Hope you change your mind.

bought it? I think I gave it to you. and it was the second bike in existence to have steve in sunny FL's flash when it was in "create mode"!  ;D

Let's go ride sometime.  And fill me in on whoever or whatever drama ran Fred away.  Suspect it was one of the grouchy elderly type folks who post armchair warrier more than ride a bike.  Thats why I log in so rarely nowadays.  strict moderation and jerks have made this forum "unfun". But I still renewed my membership because of the decent folks and help I've received.

folks....   if you're elderly and grouchy, yes I was talking about you  :great:

Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on November 29, 2017, 12:19:21 pm
Fred, You know I fully understand and support you in doing what you think is best for you.  I am doing the same thing.

I do have an opinion though.  If you view the forum as you would the country then all you are doing is letting the terrorist win.   There will always be those that view the world different and want to impose their will on you but moving out of the country you love because someone is making it less than perfect is not an acceptable solution in my opinion.

Bob,  I have to say that I agree with your opinion.

Having said that, I'm not saying that I feel either one, or the other, of the people this thread is about is a terrorist.

I'm also not saying that I believe either is right or wrong.

Everyone is different ... that's what makes the world, and the forum so great.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on November 29, 2017, 12:21:22 pm
This thread has turned into quite the dogpile. I'm not sure which is worse, a MOB rant or this '#I've been abused by the MOB' bitch fest. I guess this is Mr. Harmon's revenge. Amazing display of maturity and the spirit of COGness.

+1
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 29, 2017, 03:16:15 pm
Like every event, there's more to it than what most of y'all think.

  First of all, both these guys have a long history of contributing to COG as tech editors, event planners, AD's AAD's, etc. So it's not like a new guy ran off an old member.

 Second, the real rift comes from the differences in doing the tech editor's job. There is a COG rule that says "no officer can profit from his position". This is really where the problem comes from, and if you've read the thread that led to Fred's resignation then you know that my tenure as a tech editor had the same issue. The simple fact is that MOB is technically correct, and Fred technically did break forum rules for industry member postings. Was it a grievous fault? Not in my opinion, but I didn't write the rules.


  Third, Fred has been in this position for a long time. Made a bunch of forever contributions to the group, and the knowledge base on the c-14. But burnout comes with those years, And because of some firsthand knowledge I have, I have been expecting Fred's resignation for at least 2 years, as it was apparent to me then that he was "moving on".  So to think that MOB drove Fred out isn't the case in full. Maybe the final excuse, but Fred's resignation was overdue based on the burnout syndrome.

  MOB is from a time where all the good done between members was from the good of one's heart. This is a great concept, and if you attend a rally or an event you'll see someone with trouble of any kind is helped by all attendees in any manner they can, with no thought of remuneration. But imo opinion that's not feasable when you're upgrading hundreds of bikes.  At that point it just can't be "given away", and Fred was of that opinion. Was a tech editor selling tech support video's a violation of COG's intent? That is for the officers to decide, and apparently they saw no problem with it. MOB, who didn't profit from the years of phone tech support (remember the old days?) did have a problem with it. Phone support is a HUGE time drain (personal experience talking).  If considered in that manner, you see his point. So divergent opinions on how the tech editor position should be handled led to this rift.


  COG is in a stage of Flux right now. some of the members more knowledgeable in the models are profiting because of the work / knowledge we've achieved. when the COG rules were written, and no internet existed, things were different. So I think this whole issue may cause the officers of COG to have to re-evaluate some of the rules.

  My final point is to let y'all know that sadly, this kind of resignation isn't really all that uncommon. COG is a volunteer group, and those who volunteer on a national level are tasked with a whole 'nother job, that has $0.0 for the pay scale. You are expected to perform the position you volunteered for, and there are plenty of members who will make you work to prove it. The end result, one I've personally experienced, is burnout and bitterness. It becomes apparent in word and action. Fred is no exception; the simple fact that he's decided to cease even offering the video's is graphic proof of the bitterness he's feeling. Remember, the work is finished in making the videos. From here on any sales are gravy money. To deny that of the new c-14 owner is really just a manifestation of all the frustration he's now feeling. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Those who know MOB know how he feels in his frustrations and bitterness.  I've seen it across the board... COG chewing up and spitting out it's most valuable contributors. Maybe it's time for term limits, to prevent that, but then the next issue is to find volunteers, which starts the whole downhill slide all over again.

  So before you take sides or dogpile, think about it. It's easy to armchair the whole affair, a little different if you know the facts.

 Steve


Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: connie_rider on November 29, 2017, 03:43:50 pm
Steve, I've been wanting to post something similar, but didn't know the words..
I think that was well said.

Now, lets get back to being COG... 
     Join for the Bike, stay for the people!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: WANDRNG on November 29, 2017, 04:02:00 pm
The applicable forum rule to portions this discussion

7- Advertising - Any subscriber may advertise motorcycle related products and services in the relevant COG Mart section of the forum. Industry Members only may ‘reference’ their products/services in a relevant reply to a thread, any advertising should be done as an afterthought to providing members genuine help or assistance.

All the forum rules: http://cogmc.com/forum-rules (http://cogmc.com/forum-rules)
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Not So Wild Turkey on November 29, 2017, 06:15:10 pm
I for one almost never post anything on the forum not because I've been attacked but because I've seen others attacked for their opinions and or questions.  I don't know Fred well but my experience with him is all positive.  From a moderators and or a BOD view I would think it's never as simple as it seems.  Keep in mind none of us has all the available information at our disposal.  What is as simple as it seems is we as individuals could embrace diversity, dissimilar view points, and disagreement without personal  conflict or hatefulness. We all have both something to learn and to teach each other.

Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Jerdurr on November 29, 2017, 06:32:10 pm
I for one almost never post anything on the forum not because I've been attacked but because I've seen others attacked for their opinions and or questions.  I don't know Fred well but my experience with him is all positive.  From a moderators and or a BOD view I would think it's never as simple as it seems.  Keep in mind none of us has all the available information at our disposal.  What is as simple as it seems is we as individuals could embrace diversity, dissimilar view points, and disagreement without personal  conflict or hatefulness. We all have both something to learn and to teach each other.

AMEN tamed Turkey!  ;)
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Bruce_Reafsnider_TN on November 29, 2017, 08:51:15 pm
Maybe we can just let the moderators be moderators?  Send a pm to the section moderator, or a pm to the person you think is offending you or breaking the rules.  It shouldn't be done on the forum for all of us to see.  What I see as a real issue is that the moderators seem to let these public pissing contests go on in the first place.  What goes on behind the scenes I don't know.  But when we see the escalation on the forums, there's a problem.  Does the moderator have the power to remove the offending post?   I think so.  but there's been a lot of crap posted and just left there for all to see.  I think after a while, and sometimes crass behavior ignored, we set ourselves up for problems.  You can't put the genie back in the bottle.  Is the issue just a lack of moderators on at any given time?
 
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Bob H on November 29, 2017, 09:24:38 pm
I personally don't think we probably pay the Mod's enough to keep the children in line, and we shouldn't need to!

I know I wouldn't want that job, so I don't really feel I can complain. 

This is after all a volunteer operation.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Jerdurr on November 30, 2017, 12:19:57 am
I personally don't think we probably pay the Mod's enough to keep the children in line, and we shouldn't need to!

I know I wouldn't want that job, so I don't really feel I can complain. 

This is after all a volunteer operation.
+1
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: RWulf on November 30, 2017, 12:23:18 am
Yes it's a shame! I will miss his wisdom.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: gsun on November 30, 2017, 01:22:36 am
Maybe we can just let the moderators be moderators?  Send a pm to the section moderator, or a pm to the person you think is offending you or breaking the rules.  It shouldn't be done on the forum for all of us to see.  What I see as a real issue is that the moderators seem to let these public pissing contests go on in the first place.  What goes on behind the scenes I don't know.  But when we see the escalation on the forums, there's a problem.  Does the moderator have the power to remove the offending post?   I think so.  but there's been a lot of crap posted and just left there for all to see.  I think after a while, and sometimes crass behavior ignored, we set ourselves up for problems.  You can't put the genie back in the bottle.  Is the issue just a lack of moderators on at any given time?

    ^^
+100!
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Kman on November 30, 2017, 08:26:10 am
Maybe we can just let the moderators be moderators?  Send a pm to the section moderator, or a pm to the person you think is offending you or breaking the rules.  It shouldn't be done on the forum for all of us to see.  What I see as a real issue is that the moderators seem to let these public pissing contests go on in the first place.  What goes on behind the scenes I don't know.  But when we see the escalation on the forums, there's a problem.  Does the moderator have the power to remove the offending post?   I think so.  but there's been a lot of crap posted and just left there for all to see.  I think after a while, and sometimes crass behavior ignored, we set ourselves up for problems.  You can't put the genie back in the bottle.  Is the issue just a lack of moderators on at any given time?

+1
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ron203 on November 30, 2017, 12:44:51 pm
Doubling moderator/officer pay looks like this:  2 X $0 = $0         :nananana:     

The best pay you can give these people is 1) thank them once in a while,       2)  Offer to help or help when asked.  Pretty easy, huh?


If you have a concern, DO report it to a moderator using the "click link" in the lower right hand of the page. Those reports do not go unnoticed and unaddressed, but please remember that all of the moderators are volunteers who are engaged in other things like jobs, family, and the occasional motorcycle ride, so you won't likely get instant response to your message. Sometimes people are busy and sometimes they are just doing research, discussing the situation, and considering a measured response.

Let's remember that this forum is where many of us first "land" when exploring and learn (to some degree) what COG might be and is provided by the club for members and forum members both. COG is a club and a society of peers. Anyone is welcome to step up and volunteer or speak to an officer at any time about anything, but the rules of normal society (including civility, politeness, and respect) still need to apply.  Electronic communications can be cold, sterile, and distant and mis-interpretation abounds. How many times have we/you maybe sent an email at work or a text and instantly wished we had waited? Many in my case. I'm learning (finally) to "write and wait." Club members get an annual directory with phone numbers, so pick up the phone.

Almost everyone who comes here to the forum and goes to events usually gets the "real deal of COG fellowship. If you haven't tried it, consider it. Even so, make it a point to go out of your way to meet folks when you do. It took me a while to warm up to the club, but I'm glad I did. I actually went to two National rallys before I met enough people to be comfortable, but that's on me and I know it. We have (mostly) nice folks here, just lots of "personality." If you reach out to most of them, they'll respond. I now have made friends all over that I'd never have had if I'd just bought a Connie, read the threads, drained the tech knowledge I wanted, and faded away. What a fricking waste of an opportunity.  I'd never have met Ted, for instance.  :))

Your moderators and officers are volunteers and from what I've seen, all have the club and club member's best interests at heart. Do we need more volunteers? Oh yes. The club needs people who will do just ONE thing or maybe do MANY things. There's a spot for all who want to make this a fun place. For instance, if you don't see a ride in your area, organize one, post a thread and voila, you're a volunteer. Yes, I need to do more of those and I'm thinking of setting up a local breakfast ride for next Saturday (hint, hint). I will and if people show up, great. If they don't, I'm going to have a good breakfast and go for a ride. Either way, I win!

Anyone who wants to help in a large or small way, can certainly offer to help. If you're waiting to be asked to help, here it is: "Will you help with at least ONE thing this  year?" There, if you read that, you can't say no one ever asked you.  ;D 

Sure, some conditions may apply to certain things like requirements for club membership, but that's not for all volunteer gigs and is NOT a big deal to almost anyone who wants to help. There are clubs in your community if it's like where I live, that cost thousands to belong to, but not this club. It's a deal-about the cost of one oil change a year, or two tanks of gas, or well, you get the idea. The price is not the barrier to entry.

Everyone who volunteers is busy, so what are you doing to make this a fun place to hang out? 

Hey, I gotta go work, so I can pay for my riding habit.  Have fun, y'all.    ;)
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: freebird6 on November 30, 2017, 04:30:00 pm
Very sad to see Fred go.

I appreciate everything he has done and have benefitted from his presence. Being an infrequent contributor here I look to guys like Fred who lead the way in knowledge. I appreciate everyone who contributes and has an opinion. I have been to a couple of Nationals and enjoyed my time.

Thanks to every last one of you who mans the moderation, check in, organizational needs and all the other things that it takes to make COG run.... I have not found another group that has been as friendly and given as freely as those who are here. As an oldest child that frequently overextends my capabilities I have had to choose what I can volunteer to....so I really appreciate those who have the time to give....unfortunately those are also the ones that are in most danger of doing too much and getting burnt out.

Sorry to see Fred go and second the emotion that it will be a worse place with his absence.  Appreciate that Steve and others have come on here and given us a wide view of the situation.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Red Fox on November 30, 2017, 05:59:42 pm
I understand how unfriendly posts can build up in a perspective. 
On another forum myself and others used the 'ignore this member' function -
and after a long time the other poster was banned.

This is indeed sad news Fred!
I've always enjoyed your articles and insight.
If you change your mind, I for one will welcome you!

That goes for me, too! 
We are poorer for your decision, Fred.  Best.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: ZGirl on November 30, 2017, 07:07:06 pm
Like every event, there's more to it than what most of y'all think.

 ................................................................ All the stuff in the middle........................................

So before you take sides or dogpile, think about it. It's easy to armchair the whole affair, a little different if you know the facts.

 Steve

Thanks Steve.  That was well said.  I have met, enjoyed and benefited from both Fred and MOB.  I have admiration for both.  It's just always sad when family argues during the holidays.  (Too much like my real family!)

Thanks for everything ALL of you hard working volunteers have done and do!

 :great:
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Skiee on November 30, 2017, 10:39:22 pm
Like every event, there's more to it than what most of y'all think.

 ................................................................ All the stuff in the middle........................................

So before you take sides or dogpile, think about it. It's easy to armchair the whole affair, a little different if you know the facts.

 Steve

Thanks Steve.  That was well said.  I have met, enjoyed and benefited from both Fred and MOB.  I have admiration for both.  It's just always sad when family argues during the holidays.  (Too much like my real family!)

Thanks for everything ALL of you hard working volunteers have done and do!

 :great:
+1000!

Without the contributions from these members our C14s  would be just good, not GREAT!!

Norm
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: OKC14 on December 01, 2017, 12:53:33 pm
This is the thread that keeps on giving.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: smooth_operator on December 02, 2017, 05:01:11 am
Fred, so sorry to hear of your leaving. You were always helpful and supportive to me whenever I had a problem. Good luck to you sir.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Terrynyc on December 04, 2017, 07:32:10 pm
Sometimes I REALLY hate this forum.  Good luck Fred and thanks for all you've done for the club.  Ride on! :motonoises:
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Phil Parker - A real name on December 24, 2017, 05:22:25 pm
Why wouldn’t you post these to YouTube and collect royalties. I understand being annoyed with the drama, but this seems a bit spiteful to the entire community.  Minimally, you could post the series to YouTube with no royalties, or sell it to someone else to deal with - but discontinue it !!  Why not leave and leave a legacy ?
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: Diz on December 25, 2017, 10:30:45 am
Over 200 bikes serviced in 1 year! A lot of independent shops can't say that. Thank you Fred! Ride safe
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: WillyP on December 25, 2017, 02:30:50 pm
Fred hasn't logged in since November 26, so if you want to thank Fred you'll have to find some other form of communication.
Title: Re: Farewell COG
Post by: KnoxSwift on February 04, 2018, 08:13:28 pm
 :'(