Author Topic: First valve adjust observations  (Read 10197 times)

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Offline NukeWorker

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2018, 10:19:40 pm »
Question, Trying to remove right side subframe strut, there is this piece of plastic in front of it. How does this come out? Image at link
https://imgur.com/a/q7v7O
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2018, 11:35:13 pm »
IIRC, the radiator heat shroud tilts forward after you remove the horn bracket and remove the top radiator bolts and tilt that forward. The whole adjustment is easier if you completely remove the radiator. That said, I can’t remember if that subframe member can be wiggled out before those steps.
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Offline NukeWorker

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2018, 11:44:58 pm »
Thanks, just figured out I was going to have to remove the radiator anyway.  Oh well, was planning on replacing the coolant with SISF's cocktail anyway.  Guess it's just going to be more.  Also, do Canyon Cages have to be removed or can I do it with them still installed.
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Offline Road Runner

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #78 on: February 05, 2018, 01:36:10 am »
Thanks, just figured out I was going to have to remove the radiator anyway.  Oh well, was planning on replacing the coolant with SISF's cocktail anyway.  Guess it's just going to be more.  Also, do Canyon Cages have to be removed or can I do it with them still installed.

Canyon Cages "do not" have to be removed. I've performed 2 valve checks/adjustments with them in place ...
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Offline JOHN

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2018, 05:29:54 pm »
When I started this thread, I gave a general thank you to forum members who posted valve check info. Lots of great info here. One that really helped me was 4bikes detailed post. A big thanks. Also the factory manual and Freds vids were a must for me.
I suspect my situation is much like many of yours. I'm not a professional mechanic, but I'm good enough to work on my vehicles without destroying them. I sell parts at a car dealership since 1995, work with professional mechanics everyday. I observe and learn, and I know my limits and know when to ask for help. I had to do my research before deciding that I could do this valve job myself. One of my coworkers rides a 2004 FJR, has done it on that bike twice, told me not too bad and I could handle it.
One main factor for me, like many of you, is that paying a bike dealership to do the work (quoted 4.8 hours) was never an option. I don't have a distrust of factory techs like some people, I work with techs all day. I know its hard for them to make a living without working fast. Knowing this, a tech getting only 4.8 hrs to do a Concours valve check and adjustment would hate doing it and maybe rush the job. I understand. I wouldn't do this for 4.8 hours pay. No way.
I bought a harbour freight bike lift, a gasket kit and sparkplugs from Murphs, and dove right in. Learned a lot, had some fun, no issues during the job.
Even though I double checked all my work, was confident everything was put together correct and engine was in time, it was still stressfull when I reached up and hit the starter button. It was such a sweet sound. Had to get a friend to help sync throttle bodies, and it went smoothly also. Either I'm really lucky or this job isn't as bad as I had built it up in my mind to be.
As others before me have said, removing the radiator is a no brainer. Easy to do and makes access to engine way better. Also, a good time to flush it while its out.
Thanks again for all the good info, and good luck to all of you who are about to start a first time valve adjustment.

Offline City Slicker

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2018, 08:07:58 am »
... it was still stressfull when I reached up and hit the starter button ...


I've just completed my valve adjustment, started it up about half hour ago with exactly the same feeling.

Having access to only the service manual and comments on this forum about the work involved, there were only a couple of gotchas I would have liked to know about beforehand as a first timer.

The first is to be very aware of the dowels under the camshaft caps as you remove them from the engine. It wasn't until I had removed all of them that I realised that they are not firmly in place in either the cylinder head or caps and I managed to lose one somewhere before I realised. I could so easily have dropped one into the crankcase or bore with a bit of bad luck. There are two dowels per cap, seated on the bolts closest to the edge of the cylinder head.

The second is to have had a good understanding of the camchain tensioner installation to ensure that the camchain is tensioned at the end of the process. I got some help from the forum here, and thanks for your support with that.

This may not apply to your bike but mine has had a weeping rocker cover gasket for the last 30,000 miles - boy, what a mess! - I opted to use liquid gasket for the rebuild, applied both sides of the gasket and to the plug gaskets as well. I used ThreeBond TB1215, and following the advice on the forum, nipped the bolts down and allowed to cure before final torqueing.

Having prevoiusly replaced the spark plugs I was fearful of the valve check adjust procedure knowing how little space there was to work. However, when you remove the rh engine mount and rocker cover, and work mostly from the right hand side of the bike, there's oodles of room. I did buy a nice tool to work on the cam cap bolts, see Wera Tool-Check Plus in particular the amazing ratchet handle which handles about 60Nm torque, plenty to get bolts unwound and re tightened with your whole hand on the tool in that space.

To get the space to work, you are going to have to drop the radiator and remove the plastic heat shield behind it. You do not have to remove the rad completely - once you have removed the top two fasteners and one at the lower bracket it will drop down between the exhaust manifold and front mudguard where you can leave it supported or tied up.

Offline City Slicker

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2018, 08:23:26 am »
If you have access to a 3D printer, I made a tray for the cam buckets and shims that you can print and use next time you have to pull the cams.

You'll need a printer with at least a 240mm bed dimension (9.5 in old money)

Offline NukeWorker

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2018, 07:29:13 pm »
Anybody have the Honda part numbers for the shim's? Kawasaki is saying the 2.225 mm shims are back ordered.   >:(  Three months , finally get a chance to work on the bike, and now parts are the issue   :'( -End rant
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Offline jwh20

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2018, 08:51:27 pm »
Anybody have the Honda part numbers for the shim's? Kawasaki is saying the 2.225 mm shims are back ordered.   >:(  Three months , finally get a chance to work on the bike, and now parts are the issue   :'( -End rant

Order them from JakeWilson/RidersDomain. 

https://www.ridersdomain.com/motorcycle-parts/pro-x-valve-shim-p?v=2005-YAMAHA-FJR1300

2.225 is showing IN-STOCK!  They ship FAST!  (And yes, these are exactly the same shims that Kawasaki sells.)
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Offline Slambo

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2018, 09:25:32 pm »
I second that recommendation...excellent service from Jake/Riders domain when I did my valves...
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Offline Buzzard

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2018, 10:27:09 pm »
Here are a couple of tips, things that worked for me. I used a bunch of gallon zip lock bags and bagged hardware, nuts and bolts, as I dis-assembled, and marked each bag, with a felt tip marker, with notations as to where the hardware was from. I then sort of stacked them in order so they were used in reverse order for assembly. I took a couple of egg cartons and cut off the end 4 cups from one. I then duct taped the full 12 holer to the 4 holer, making a 16 hole keeper for the buckets and shims. It was, of course, marked left to right, EX and INT. Before starting the job, be sure you have a torque wrench that will go down to 15 lb ft. My 3/8 inch drive torque wrench started at about 25 lb ft. Have a very good set of feeler gauges on hand, Snap On, Craftsman, a brand you can trust.  By the way, is anyone stockpiling shims? I have eight that came out of my bike, I doubt I'll ever use again. Would rather see them put to good use.

Offline Deepsea

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #86 on: March 01, 2018, 07:00:34 am »
Good advice all. When using a torque wrench Never use it at the lowest or highest setting. The opto-mom setting is the central 60% of its total range. Even better limit it to the central 40% for the most accurate results. I know this means more torque wrenches but it is what it is. The most expensive tool you can buy is a cheep torque wrench.
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Offline Colt45

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2018, 12:47:30 am »
Personally I was glad to see a post from Fred again. There have been to many good people leave this forum because of MOB. 75% of his post are belittling to who ever is on the other end.

We shouldn't be the one's struggling to ignore his post. For what ever reason he seems to be a bitter person.

I have no ties to either, just decided to finally speak up with my .02.

Cliff   :beerchug:

I haven't been on this forum much in the last 2 years, but this is the opposite of my experience with MOB and unfair IMO. 

OTOH, I have found Fred officious, and difficult, to be kind, with none but his opinion being valid.   
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Offline NukeWorker

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2018, 05:44:58 pm »
Thanks jwh20, that's what i did. Great resource, and about 1/10th the price of OEM.  Also, they mike out pretty much exactly what they are stamped as.
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Offline jwh20

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2018, 12:18:52 pm »
Thanks jwh20, that's what i did. Great resource, and about 1/10th the price of OEM.  Also, they mike out pretty much exactly what they are stamped as.

It's my theory that these shims are all made by the same company.  Really, how many shim manufacturers can there be?  But I too have had good results with the ProX shims, they are spot-on size-wise and they have the "1/2" sizes like Kawasaki OEM which HotCams doesn't carry.

But what really frustrates me about shims is that local dealers NEVER have any.  Then you order them from some of the well-known internet-based shops and 3 days after you order you get an email saying "The part is out of stock and will be available in 2 weeks."  GRRRR!

I like that RidersDomain shows what's in stock (and nearly every shim in the catalog is always in stock!) and they don't delay shipping.  I've ordered on Monday and had then delivered on Tuesday.

Glad you got what you needed!
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Offline NukeWorker

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #90 on: March 08, 2018, 08:00:16 pm »

But what really frustrates me about shims is that local dealers NEVER have any.  Then you order them from some of the well-known internet-based shops and 3 days after you order you get an email saying "The part is out of stock and will be available in 2 weeks."  GRRRR!

That was exactly my experience with Bikebandit and the local dealers.  Local dealers only had Hot Cams kits and then not all sizes but offered to order. Ordered from Bb, two days later, email saying not in stock. called them for a possible substitute, only had Hot Cams full sizes. >:(
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Offline NukeWorker

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #91 on: March 19, 2018, 10:54:14 am »
All finished, thanks so much for everyone's help. Started and ran successfully the first time.
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #92 on: March 19, 2018, 12:00:43 pm »
That first start-up is a wonderful feeling indeed. :)
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #93 on: March 19, 2018, 04:36:51 pm »
I was surprised to find the individual (and complete kit) Hot Cam shims are offered on Ebay.
If you need them, and can wait for them to arrive in 2-3 days, that might be an option.

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Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #94 on: March 19, 2018, 08:49:53 pm »
I was surprised to find the individual (and complete kit) Hot Cam shims are offered on Ebay.
If you need them, and can wait for them to arrive in 2-3 days, that might be an option.

Ride safe, Ted


Ted... see response #83 above...

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/first-valve-adjust-observations/msg629027/#msg629027

There's 3 reasons for not being duped into the HC shim kits...

1) expensive as you will never need all of the shims in the kit, prolly only 3 or 4 sizes...
2) there are only 3 of each size in the kit... if you need 4 of the same size... gotta re up...
3) HC shims only come in .05mm increments, which is too wide a span, OEM, Honda, and the Jake / Pro X shims come in half increments, (.025mm) which you will likely need to make them spot on.

But, I did go look on ebay, and if you needed individual shims that are sized as X.00mm or X.05mm, they did sell 5 packs for about $9, not bad, if you don't need shims in the X.025mm and X.075mm sizes.

I also had to check on shipping for the Jake/ProX ones, that runs $7, but they do ship same day if ordered before 4 p.m.
(I always order stuff over the phone, to insure rapid response, and in stock supply)
Pretty quick I suppose.
https://www.ridersdomain.com/motorcycle-parts/pro-x-valve-shim-p?v=2005-YAMAHA-FJR1300

I was surprised tho, that there was ONE missing shim in that list... the 1.325 shim... jumped from 1.30 to 1.35.  But I don't think ANYONE would need that shim, maybe in 30 years...  :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

I think the most common one needed is in the 2.225 zone, and the normal spreads I see coming from the factory during assembly were between the 2.100 to 3.10 range..
Just trying to save people aggrivation, as you don't know which ones you need, till you pull it apart completely..and then, you may end up doing it again, after installing and measuring results.. only to find they needed to be a bit thinner..or thicker...

Pretty much every shim I had to purchase on my adjustment, was a half size shim, and would have made me realy angry if I bought that "kit". I'm not saying the adjustment was only a .025mm, what I mean is that it needed a shim in that incrimental range...

Making a shim map during the process does make the second interval much easier, as at least you know what shim lives in each bucket beforehand, and you can order indivisual ones after recording the clearances, prior to pulling the cams.. and you can also calculate which can be swapped and what needs to be bought...
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 10:25:00 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Roger B

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2018, 11:52:33 am »
Ordered my shims from Jake Wilson.  They were inexpensive and I put the order through at 5pm and received the shims 1pm next day.   No special shipping option selected.   It might of been a fluke but I was flabbergasted.   I thought they came from out West and I live in Ohio.

Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #96 on: March 20, 2018, 07:12:12 pm »
Ordered my shims from Jake Wilson.  They were inexpensive and I put the order through at 5pm and received the shims 1pm next day.   No special shipping option selected.   It might of been a fluke but I was flabbergasted.   I thought they came from out West and I live in Ohio.

I'm in Ohio also, they are based in Oregon.
BUT... the have dealership programs, and associate programs accross the USA, so when they check inventory, and are filling an order, they can pull from stock and "drop ship" from any of those resources, which makes for speedy delivery, and wise stock rotation...


https://www.ridersdomain.com/Dealer-Program

Many parts warehouses/distrubtors do this very same thing...
I have had tires, batteries, and parts ordered from west coast and  mid US places, delivered almost next day, as there may be some sitting in a warehouse in my own state, its great to order and receive product that fast,  they just push a "go" button, and modern tech takes over.

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Offline rcannon409

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #97 on: March 21, 2018, 11:57:21 am »
Ordered my shims from Jake Wilson.  They were inexpensive and I put the order through at 5pm and received the shims 1pm next day.   No special shipping option selected.   It might of been a fluke but I was flabbergasted.   I thought they came from out West and I live in Ohio.

I believe Jake Wilson is part of Rocky Mountain, ATV.  They do have one location, in Utah, as well as another one in Kentucky...or somewhere down south.

When they just had the Utah shop, it was great to be by them. They always had what you wanted, over the counter. Now, its a 50/50 sort of thing because it might be in stock, but its in the other location.  Still, no big deal. I've never waited more than 3 days for anything.
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Offline Todd

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #98 on: March 21, 2018, 04:12:21 pm »
Recently had my first valve check/adjust performed on my 2010 C14 with 36,000 miles (yeah, I know) by the local "reputable" Kawasaki dealer.

Paid just under $700 including the gasket kit.   Dealer said all valves were in spec and no adjustments were needed.   Prior to this service, the bike was still running and performing consistently well just like when it was brand new.

The vast majority of the time, except for a couple days at the track over the years,  I'm an easy rider, rarely rapping the engine into the higher RPMs.  Most miles are easy cruising miles.

Did I get lucky or screwed?   Bike still runs exactly as it always has.   Feeling a bit like a $700 chump.

Thanks,
Todd

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: First valve adjust observations
« Reply #99 on: March 21, 2018, 04:26:42 pm »
Based on the reports for the checks and adjustments by owner’s and trusted mechanics, all in spec seems to be implausible.   ::).  It is possible they were in spec, but ideally should have been adjusted to optimal while being in there. Did they give a map with the measured clearances?
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