Author Topic: Fob Question  (Read 8746 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Alf

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum Subsc
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Fob Question
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2014, 07:22:00 pm »
Sorry if this is flogging a deceased equine, but if you're registering new spare fobs and have to re-register the main fob at the same time do you have to have the original serial number of the main fob?  If I don't have the original ID will I be left with a main fob that only works like a spare?

Alf

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Fob Question
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2014, 07:35:41 pm »
Sorry if this is flogging a deceased equine, but if you're registering new spare fobs and have to re-register the main fob at the same time do you have to have the original serial number of the main fob?  If I don't have the original ID will I be left with a main fob that only works like a spare?

Alf

Alf,

Good question, but the answer is no. You would only need the ID code if you were registering a new main fob, which you are not. You see, there are two separate registrations for the main FOB: KiPass, and Immobilizer (Spare). In this case, you will just be re-registering the spare function of the main FOB. No ID code required.

Hope that helps.
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline BDF

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3688
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Fob Question
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2014, 07:44:54 pm »
So this brings up an ugly but interesting thought: for those folks who have had new fobs registered with only one of their already registered fobs present, but have another (or others) say, left at home, the main RF part of the RF fob back at home will work but not the RFID portion of any fobs NOT present?

So there are no doubt people running around with 'spare, drop- dead, emergency fobs' located in safes or wherever that person thinks the fob will survive the apocalypse, only to find out that when the battery goes dead in that thing, even if they checked its function (using the RF portion of course), that fob WILL NOT WORK?

There have been plenty of people who have brought their C-14, and one fob to a dealer to have the bike programmed to accept a third (or sometimes even more) fob and in doing so, actually cobbled the "safest" fob of all to no longer work in the emergency mode. ?? ???

Brian

OK, so I finally got to try this again this evening. You do have to register ALL of the spare FOB's, including the ignition FOB function of the primary KeyFOB, all at the same time. It doesn't matter if you register one, or two, or three...when you hit "confirm", it overwrites the existing FOB's in the ignition ECU memory. See pic below.

Another thing to note for future reference if nothing else: You do not need any of the ID codes on the OEM bag to register the spare FOBs. Those ID numbers are only required for the primary/main KeyFOBs.

Rem ;D
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Fob Question
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2014, 07:59:02 pm »
So this brings up an ugly but interesting thought: for those folks who have had new fobs registered with only one of their already registered fobs present, but have another (or others) say, left at home, the main RF part of the RF fob back at home will work but not the RFID portion of any fobs NOT present?

So there are no doubt people running around with 'spare, drop- dead, emergency fobs' located in safes or wherever that person thinks the fob will survive the apocalypse, only to find out that when the battery goes dead in that thing, even if they checked its function (using the RF portion of course), that fob WILL NOT WORK?

There have been plenty of people who have brought their C-14, and one fob to a dealer to have the bike programmed to accept a third (or sometimes even more) fob and in doing so, actually cobbled the "safest" fob of all to no longer work in the emergency mode. ?? ???

Brian


Yup. This is what I said the other day....
I wonder how many people lost the spare function of their main FOBs when having new spare FOBs registered?

I betcha there's a few;).

Even if you didn't forget any of them at home....it can still happen. In order to register the spare function of a main FOB, the key has to be removed, and it has to be held against the ignition housing. It cannot be registered without doing so.

When you register a new or additional spare FOB, you have to do it, AND all of the others again. They are all registered temporarily, one after another, and then you write to the ignition ECU only once. If you register just one spare FOB, it will overwrite the others that were registered before.

You can try it when you get the chance, even with your two main FOB's. The registration process is exactly the same. The ignition ECU doesn't know if the spare FOB RFID is a spare FOB or a main FOB. I've tried it, several times, and they only way to have all the spares registered is to do them all at the same time.

It's counterintuitive, I know...but it is what it is...lol. If anybody can find a way around it, I'm all ears...but I've tried, and I cannot.

Additionally, I betcha I could take one of your main FOB's, and register the RFID function on MY bike, and then it would work on both;).

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline BDF

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3688
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Fob Question
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2014, 08:20:32 pm »
Very interesting and a little frightening.

About the ignition not knowing what was authenticated, the ign. circuit or the actual KiPass ECU via RF, something in the bike does know because that pesky 'No Transponder' message will not come up if the bike is fired up with an RFID fob. The designers knew that that would be really just torture because after the bike is started, the RFID fob would go back into your pocket.

Two bikes sharing a fob (not sure why but Easy Boys!) would not be a problem. Really there is no limit to the number of bikes that could be used with the same fob. A really odd situation and I don't think it would ever be useful- unless at some point in the future more models of motorcycle used KiPass of course and then a person owning multiple bikes using that feature could take advantage of carrying only one fob. All of which reminds me of a joke:

To the optimist, KiPass is the best of all possible ways to start a motorcycle.
To the pessimist, the above is true.      :rotflmao:

Brian

Yup. This is what I said the other day....
I wonder how many people lost the spare function of their main FOBs when having new spare FOBs registered?

I betcha there's a few;).

Even if you didn't forget any of them at home....it can still happen. In order to register the spare function of a main FOB, the key has to be removed, and it has to be held against the ignition housing. It cannot be registered without doing so.

When you register a new or additional spare FOB, you have to do it, AND all of the others again. They are all registered temporarily, one after another, and then you write to the ignition ECU only once. If you register just one spare FOB, it will overwrite the others that were registered before.

You can try it when you get the chance, even with your two main FOB's. The registration process is exactly the same. The ignition ECU doesn't know if the spare FOB RFID is a spare FOB or a main FOB. I've tried it, several times, and they only way to have all the spares registered is to do them all at the same time.

It's counterintuitive, I know...but it is what it is...lol. If anybody can find a way around it, I'm all ears...but I've tried, and I cannot.

Additionally, I betcha I could take one of your main FOB's, and register the RFID function on MY bike, and then it would work on both;).
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Fob Question
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2014, 08:35:57 pm »
Very interesting and a little frightening.

Kawasaki would have intended the registration process to be a safety feature, and by safety, I mean anti-theft.

The way the ignition and Kipass registration processes work, the designers never really intended for anybody to be adding an additional FOB, of any kind. The way it works, you cannot save the registration of a FOB that isn't there. They assumed that if you had to register a FOB, that you had obviously lost the previous one, in which case, the system erases (or disables the lost one).

The difference is between the KiPass registration, and the ignition registration.

If you do not hold all of the spare FOBs, and RFID portions of the main FOB against the ignition to register, then the ones that are not there to touch get deleted.
If you don't have all of the main FOBs present when registering a new main FOB in the KiPass ECU, the one(s) that are not there get disabled.

It's weird, I know, but there are two completely separate processes.

The ignition ECU obviously sends a digital "OK" to the KiPass ECU when a spare FOB is held against the ignition. The KiPass ECU has no idea what the RFID code of the spare FOB is...that info is only in the ignition ECU. If you buy a new replacement KiPass ECU from Kawasaki, it comes with two FOB's already registered to it, but their spare RFID functions still have to be registered to the ignition of the motorcycle they're going to live with;).

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline BDF

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3688
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Fob Question
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2014, 08:54:05 pm »
Yes but the KiPass ECU does know if it was the ign. ciruit or the KiPass ECU that did the authentication so that the system does not report 'No Transponder' if the RFID fob (or portion of the fob) was used. If you authenticate with an RF fob the bike does again 'sense' the fob under a few conditions (passing 12 MPH, shifting into sixth gear and one or two other 'triggers') and if it is not found, will alert the rider with a 'No Transponder' warning. That was the point of my comment about the difference on what part of the system actually authenticated KiPass.

Brian


<snip>

The ignition ECU obviously sends a digital "OK" to the KiPass ECU when a spare FOB is held against the ignition. The KiPass ECU has no idea what the RFID code of the spare FOB is...that info is only in the ignition ECU. If you buy a new replacement KiPass ECU from Kawasaki, it comes with two FOB's already registered to it, but their spare RFID functions still have to be registered to the ignition of the motorcycle they're going to live with;).
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rembrant

  • Low Brow Realist
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Fob Question
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2014, 09:04:06 pm »
 :PDT_Armataz_01_37:
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.