Author Topic: Glass mat battery  (Read 4361 times)

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Offline gsun

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Glass mat battery
« on: March 10, 2012, 08:16:12 pm »
May be needing a new battery. Don't know much about them. I understand the glass mat batteries are not damaged by vibration. Not that the C-14 has any....
Any comments?

Offline mff

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 08:38:41 pm »
just bought a "Chrome"  battery $42 delivered- Made in the USA (Ebay)

Offline Slybones

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 10:02:30 pm »
Now days most all your maintenance free batteries are made using Absorted Glass Mat ( AGM ) versus being a flooded wet cell battery ( which is maintenance required battery ). From what I gather this means the electrolyte get absorbed into a fiber mat material, and this matting is placed between the metal plates. Versus just pouring liquid between the metal plates.

This is a better way to go for may reasons.

Still there are better quality AGM batteries that others. Some has to do with contruction methods for vibration resistance, etc. Some has to do with the quality of the materials. The more pure the metal in the plates is, the better they work.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 10:04:21 pm by Slybones »
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Offline gsun

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 11:45:33 pm »
I found an Interstate 240 CCA AGM battery locally but it is still $105.00. Canada - always higher prices! But the dealer wants $135.00 for the battery that only lasted me 2 years. I leave it on the charger if I'm not going to ride for more than a week.
Anybody know about Intersate MC batts? Only used the car ones.

Offline gsun

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 11:56:27 pm »
just bought a "Chrome"  battery $42 delivered- Made in the USA (Ebay)

Looked that one up. Doesn't say the CCA. As far as being made in the USA - this is one the ebay page:

Our manufacturers overseas are required to follow strict Quality Control Procedures designed and written specifically by Chrome Battery to ensure all of our products exceed the demands of the American consumer.

Offline BDF

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 12:24:52 am »
A lot of flooded cell batteries are maintenance- free, as the OEM battery on the C-14 is. Once the battery is filled with acid, caps are forced into place and any gas generated by charging is held inside the battery unless the pressure gets excessive. If the pressure does become too high, the battery will still vent just as old open- cell batteries did but the MF batteries remain low on acid for the rest of their useful lifespan as there is no way to refill them.

Lead- acid batteries come in three types, wet cell, gel cell and AGM. All are the same chemistry but AGM batteries have several advantages: 1) they cannot spill liquid because all the acid they do contain has been absorbed in the glass matt between the plates. 2) They are extremely tolerant of hard use / abuse because the plates cannot shed particles that would normally sit at the bottom of the cells and eventually short the cell (there is no open area between the plates as it is full of glass matt), and they are resistant to overcharging because there is simply not enough electrolyte (acid) present to allow that to happen. AGM batteries are not impossible to destroy, just harder to destroy than liquid or gel cell types.

I am using a MotoBatt and am happy with it so far; it is not quite a year old and still starts the bike. <shrugs shoulders> Got it from Murph's for a pretty reasonable price although I think the price has increased quite a bit now.

Brian


Now days most all your maintenance free batteries are made using Absorted Glass Mat ( AGM ) versus being a flooded wet cell battery ( which is maintenance required battery ). From what I gather this means the electrolyte get absorbed into a fiber mat material, and this matting is placed between the metal plates. Versus just pouring liquid between the metal plates.

This is a better way to go for may reasons.

Still there are better quality AGM batteries that others. Some has to do with contruction methods for vibration resistance, etc. Some has to do with the quality of the materials. The more pure the metal in the plates is, the better they work.
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Offline gsun

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2012, 04:09:04 am »
I searched Murph's site (always the first stop) and found nothing for the C-14.

Offline Mad River Marc

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Offline ddtmoto

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 02:33:26 pm »
A lot of flooded cell batteries are maintenance- free, as the OEM battery on the C-14 is. Once the battery is filled with acid, caps are forced into place and any gas generated by charging is held inside the battery unless the pressure gets excessive. If the pressure does become too high, the battery will still vent just as old open- cell batteries did but the MF batteries remain low on acid for the rest of their useful lifespan as there is no way to refill them.

Lead- acid batteries come in three types, wet cell, gel cell and AGM. All are the same chemistry but AGM batteries have several advantages: 1) they cannot spill liquid because all the acid they do contain has been absorbed in the glass matt between the plates. 2) They are extremely tolerant of hard use / abuse because the plates cannot shed particles that would normally sit at the bottom of the cells and eventually short the cell (there is no open area between the plates as it is full of glass matt), and they are resistant to overcharging because there is simply not enough electrolyte (acid) present to allow that to happen. AGM batteries are not impossible to destroy, just harder to destroy than liquid or gel cell types.

I am using a MotoBatt and am happy with it so far; it is not quite a year old and still starts the bike. <shrugs shoulders> Got it from Murph's for a pretty reasonable price although I think the price has increased quite a bit now.

Brian


Now days most all your maintenance free batteries are made using Absorted Glass Mat ( AGM ) versus being a flooded wet cell battery ( which is maintenance required battery ). From what I gather this means the electrolyte get absorbed into a fiber mat material, and this matting is placed between the metal plates. Versus just pouring liquid between the metal plates.

This is a better way to go for may reasons.

Still there are better quality AGM batteries that others. Some has to do with contruction methods for vibration resistance, etc. Some has to do with the quality of the materials. The more pure the metal in the plates is, the better they work.
I work at a dealer and have never seen a flooded battery that is 'maintenance free'. Flooded units have the six caps that are removed to add distilled water to keep top'ed off.  The OEM battery on a C14 is a not 'flooded', they are AGM. A tender will extend their life a great deal. Just say no to Chinese batteries...they are a crap shoot.
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Offline BDF

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 03:21:21 pm »
The service manual explains it all- the C-14 battery is a wet cell (flooded cell as you call it) yet it is maintenance free. See pages 16-25 through 16-27 for a complete description on filling a new battery with acid, then installing the sealing caps that seal all cells forever, and finally the explicit section about NEVER removing the caps to add water or acid. The battery really is maintenance free because removing those <press- in> caps would almost certainly result in destroying those caps and the battery could not be re-sealed again.

Most OEM auto batteries are wet cell, maintenance free types now as well.

All three types of lead- acid battery can be maintenance free, wet cell, gel cell and AGM. Each type could also be vented and maintainable although I have never seen or heard of an AGM battery being vented or the cells accessible.

Making a wet cell, lead- acid battery basically involves creating wells to allow a gas build- up when charging. As long as there is not excessive gas production, the battery will not vent so it will not lose any electrolyte. If the battery is significantly overcharged or charged at far too fast a charging rate, then the gas may accumulate too fast and the battery's internal pressure will rise to the point where an emergency vent will open and vent the battery. If that happens though the battery will lose capacity that cannot be recovered due to the sealed nature of the fill caps.

Brian


I work at a dealer and have never seen a flooded battery that is 'maintenance free'. Flooded units have the six caps that are removed to add distilled water to keep top'ed off.  The OEM battery on a C14 is a not 'flooded', they are AGM. A tender will extend their life a great deal. Just say no to Chinese batteries...they are a crap shoot.
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Offline gsun

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 04:50:02 pm »
I put the OEM two year old battery on a 10 amp charge for about 4 hours and not fully charged, then a 2 AMP charge overnight. This morning it is charged. I started the bike a couple of weeks ago and put it on the 1.5 amp charger, as always, and it was only putting out 9-10 volts yesterday. I wonder if the charger is toast. I also wonder if the battery is still good. The connections seemed good when I took the battery out.

Offline ddtmoto

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 12:11:45 am »
If the battery won't charge up and hold at least 12.4 volts it has got issues.
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Offline MidlifeCrisis

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 01:34:03 pm »
I put the OEM two year old battery on a 10 amp charge for about 4 hours and not fully charged, then a 2 AMP charge overnight. This morning it is charged. I started the bike a couple of weeks ago and put it on the 1.5 amp charger, as always, and it was only putting out 9-10 volts yesterday. I wonder if the charger is toast. I also wonder if the battery is still good. The connections seemed good when I took the battery out.
Is this a "smart" charger?  10A is too much for these dinky motorcycle batteries.  The OEM YTX14-BS is a 12Ah battery, and 40Ah worth of fast charge mostly likely cooked.

Most of them will tell you the max fast charge rate right on the battery.  If there is no recommended charge rate on it, I would keep it to no more than 5A or so.

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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 05:00:23 pm »
I put the OEM two year old battery on a 10 amp charge for about 4 hours and not fully charged, then a 2 AMP charge overnight. This morning it is charged. I started the bike a couple of weeks ago and put it on the 1.5 amp charger, as always, and it was only putting out 9-10 volts yesterday. I wonder if the charger is toast. I also wonder if the battery is still good. The connections seemed good when I took the battery out.

IIRC AGM batteries vent only one way, out. If they are over charged (ruined), one way to tell is that the sides (ends) will be sucked in (concave), and no amount
of charging will bring them back. Smart chargers are supposed to be able to avoid this problem with AGM batteries.

Offline gsun

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 02:10:27 am »
Yeah, it's a smart charger. I put it at 10 amps for a while to jolt it (pun intended) and then down to 2 AMPs to finish it. It was not charged when I went down to 2. It did charge and the bike reads 14.4 V, so I will see if it holds. Still plugging it in to the tender. Maybe the connection came loose or something. I hope...

Offline MizzouMike

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2012, 02:14:55 am »
I searched Murph's site (always the first stop)

Always the best first place to start.  After I ordered my recent MotoBatt, I checked around and not only was I supporting one of our own, his prices were some of the best around..  I will be ordering another one when my Yamaha need a new battery!
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Offline ddtmoto

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2012, 11:39:00 am »
If your battery sat 'dead', under 11 volts, for any length time it was sulfating and going downhill fast. They seldom recover to the point that you can trust and depend on them to be normal like a 100% battery. These bikes are real tough to push start....Get a 'tender' that is made not for car size batteries, but for powersports units..
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Offline gsun

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2012, 01:30:30 am »
I don't know how long it was less than 11 V. I started it a couple weeks before and it ran fine. My tender is a bike tender. We will see what happens.

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2012, 11:52:08 pm »
FYI, the OEM battery that comes from the factory in the C14 is a 14 amp hour battery (Japanese Furukawa brand). All the replacements I have seen in the same size and configuration are 12 amp/hour batteries.  Last time I spoke with Yuasa they were working on a GYZ series battery (VRLA) that would be a 14 amp/hour replacement in the same size, but I don't know if it has been released yet or not. Many folks have replaced their OEM batteries with 12 amp/hour batteries without issue, and when I had mine replaced under warranty, even the dealer installed a 12 amp/hr Yuasa because they didn't have the 14 amp/hr. I believe the only way you can get the 14 amp/hr battery is to order it from Kawasaki. Just be ready with your checkbook, because I think it's almost $200.

I'm currently using an 18 amp/hour Shorai Lithium Iron battery in my C14 that weighs about 1.5 lbs, and is significantly smaller as well. I've had it in the bike for nearly a year now, and it's still cranking as strong as it did the day I put it in. But it costs a little more than a standard battery. I'd also like to see how it's doing after 4 or 5 years before I make a final judgement on it, but so far it's working real good.

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Shorai 18 amp/hr Battery next to OEM


« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 11:56:12 pm by Fred_Harmon_TX »
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Offline gsun

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2012, 02:59:33 am »
Fred - How much was the LI-ON battery? Does the smaller size cause any problems?

Offline gtskev

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2012, 05:02:30 am »
I think I got mine for around $155 US.  The battery Shorai recommends now is the LFX21A6-BS12--$230, cheaper on the web.  I got a LFX14 and they go for around 139 now...  The size is a one-time challenge for fitting the foam spacers but not a big deal.
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Offline Redline

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2012, 07:36:03 pm »
I Have a question for all you experts. I have noticed I get a very limited life out of my motorcycle batteries lately. Here is what I'm wondering / thinking. All the replacement batteries I see and have been sold now are AGM while the factory batteries are flooded or wet cell. I had always been under the impression that AGM batteries require a higher charging voltage to get them to acceptance stage?  or to 100% I have noticed that my bikes all put out a voltage more appropriate for flooded batteries. My understanding for at least marine applications (which is why my $500.00 marine charger has different settings for AGM, gel, flooded) that AGM's need 15.5V to hit 100%. I'm just wondering why all the batteries I've bought the last few years crap out in a year or two TOPS!!. One thing with the Connie i'm certain of ,is that the intense heat is a killer and thats true of all types of batts. I heard operation above 77F cuts battery life expectancy by 50% per 15F increase?
I think their trying to sell me more batteries because I've bought more in the last five years than I did in the previous 20?

Offline BDF

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2012, 08:48:42 pm »
I don't know about being an expert but the answer is cheap enough :-)

The chemistry among all lead acid types is the same so the charging parameters <should> be about the same also. Sealed batteries, which include all AGM and gel types, and some flooded cell batteries, are more sensitive to severe overcharging as well as extremely high charging rates as they cannot boil off electrolyte to deal with the extra charging. Flooded cell batteries are occasionally subjected to a pretty heavy overcharge to eliminate or reduce sulfate and I suspect that the settings on your charger basically limit the upper voltage on sealed batteries.

As to the lifespan I really do not know. If batteries today really do not last as long as they used to, I would suspect a general reduction of materials inside them to cut manufacturing costs at the expense of longevity. ??? It may also depend on the battery brand- Odyssey batteries have a great reputation for reliability and longevity but they are a premium, relatively expensive battery.

Brian


I Have a question for all you experts. I have noticed I get a very limited life out of my motorcycle batteries lately. Here is what I'm wondering / thinking. All the replacement batteries I see and have been sold now are AGM while the factory batteries are flooded or wet cell. I had always been under the impression that AGM batteries require a higher charging voltage to get them to acceptance stage?  or to 100% I have noticed that my bikes all put out a voltage more appropriate for flooded batteries. My understanding for at least marine applications (which is why my $500.00 marine charger has different settings for AGM, gel, flooded) that AGM's need 15.5V to hit 100%. I'm just wondering why all the batteries I've bought the last few years crap out in a year or two TOPS!!. One thing with the Connie i'm certain of ,is that the intense heat is a killer and thats true of all types of batts. I heard operation above 77F cuts battery life expectancy by 50% per 15F increase?
I think their trying to sell me more batteries because I've bought more in the last five years than I did in the previous 20?
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Offline ChipDoc

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2012, 08:54:06 pm »
One thing with the Connie i'm certain of ,is that the intense heat is a killer and thats true of all types of batts. I heard operation above 77F cuts battery life expectancy by 50% per 15F increase?
I think their trying to sell me more batteries because I've bought more in the last five years than I did in the previous 20?
That much?  Geez, down here I'll go through a couple of months in August and September when I never ride the bike in temps under 80F - even in the wee hours of the morning.  Sitting on the hot tarmac in the blazing Florida sun the temp gets up to about 115F during afternoon rush hour.

But I have discovered that simply riding every day is a good way to keep your battery in great shape. 

Offline OregonLAN

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Re: Glass mat battery
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2012, 08:55:03 pm »
I just picked up an "Energizer" AGM battery from Les Schwabs for $57 OTD. I replace my MC battery every 3 years regardless. The last time I had to pop-start a 800lb cruiser on flat ground taught me it was better to be safe than sorry...